Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVI: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!" - Page 3

Eldan · 07-05-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamishspence

Or use the Corsairs Imperial Armour 11 rules. That has stats for the Eldar flyers. Allowing them to count as supersonic skimmers in non-apocalypse games.

Under the new rules they'd be supersonic flyers.

But they don't have hull points. So, would they be playable?

Renegade Paladin · 07-05-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squark

Well... Allies and Aegis Defense lines. To be fair, though, the only people with anti-air are people with fliers and Guard (who have Basalisks, although those aren't great because they're dedicated anti-air).

You mean Hydras. Basilisks are big, honkin' S9 ordnance field guns.

Olinser · 07-05-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Vector Strikes on FMCs. It's a pretty poor defense if you're going first. But it still works. It works better when you can totally random roll the first Biomancy power every time because random dice totally work like that.

But, otherwise yeah. Along with Orks, Tyranids got the hard nerf. They were good for a brief time as they had some of the best Grey Knight-killing units in the game, and thus one of the Codecies in the game if you were in the meta-game of 60% Grey Knights. At least 'Nids are still better than Orks.

Yes, Vector Strikes does work, but if I am reading Armourbane correctly, you only get 2d6 armour penetration in CLOSE COMBAT. And Vector Strikes is not close combat (in fact, it counts as firing a shooting weapon). So... for a Flyrant I get D3+1 S6 hits with only d6 pen on side armour, which for most flyers is 11 or 12. So yeah... I might as well be firing from the ground, that's not going to bring down anything very quickly.

Also, Flying Monstrous Creatures are MUCH worse than people think - all you have to do is HIT them while they are swooping, and they take a 3+ save - and if they fail, they take a S9 hit with no save, and then are grounded and will be torn apart by missiles or lascannons just like they were in 5th.

Although with the first Biomancy power I could have a T9 Hive Tyrant... hells yeah :P.

It's not so much that Tyranids got a big nerf in and of themselves, it's that they are the ONLY army in the entire game that can take no allies and can't fire weapon emplacements! Not only is that a RIDICULOUS decision from a balance standpoint, even from the standpoint of fluff it would be VERY easy to justify allies. Any 'ally' the Tyranid player has is either:

A) Genestealer Cult (if I recall correctly when they were in the game, every 3rd or 4th generation was indistinguishable from the host species)

or B) Being completely mind controlled via parasites by the Tyranid collective - and their relative 'ally ranking' represents how easy or hard it is for the Tyranids to maintain control of them.

The introduction of allies means that armies can shore up their major weaknesses - swarm armies can take an ally with heavy vehicles, elite armies can take a meat shield to hide behind, the sky's the limit. Nids... are the only codex stuck with the codex troops and nothing else.

Wyntonian · 07-05-2012, 04:14 PM

Sorry to interrupt the shop talk, but I've been wondering how people actually measure distances.

I mean, do you have a tape measure? Yardstick? string and ruler? I know the mats can be pretty big, and my first couple games will probably be outdoors (we will, not our models), so this is kinda worth considering. How do you do it?

LeSwordfish · 07-05-2012, 04:20 PM

Tape measure. Rulers are too short, mostly. The kind of tape measure that rolls up or the kind thatis basically string with numbers is a choice up to you. I prefer the roll-up kind, if only because you can clip it at one distance, and hold it with one hand to move stuff with the other.

Olinser · 07-05-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

Sorry to interrupt the shop talk, but I've been wondering how people actually measure distances.

I mean, do you have a tape measure? Yardstick? string and ruler? I know the mats can be pretty big, and my first couple games will probably be outdoors (we will, not our models), so this is kinda worth considering. How do you do it?

Tape measure. The GW one is pretty small and handy (you don't want one of the big outdoor ones), and there is also a handy triangle that most hobby shots sell that is 6' by 4' by 2'/3' in the sides, 6' is the measurement you'll be making 3/4 of the time. You can't really get away without either you or your opponent having a tape measure - especially for long range weapons that have 36' or 48' ranges.

Renegade Paladin · 07-05-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olinser

Tape measure. The GW one is pretty small and handy (you don't want one of the big outdoor ones)

I have a 25 foot piece of hardware because I insist on being able to measure the entire range of all my weapons, and Basilisks clock in at 240".

Wyntonian · 07-05-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

I have a 25 foot piece of hardware because I insist on being able to measure the entire range of all my weapons, and Basilisks clock in at 240".

That's dedication.

Related question, what size of mat do you guys use? I'll be camping, and probably just playing on the ground or something, and I'd like to know what size square to scratch out. Do you even need a defined area?

Note that we probably won't be getting above 1750 points per army, absolute max. Probably more like 500-1000.

Borgh · 07-05-2012, 04:43 PM

Usually you play on a 4x4' or 4x6' battlefield, however there are a thousand scenarios out there and many use weird deployments or even strange boards, one scenario in the book takes place on a scale model starfortress.

I reccomend to go get the book and read it, it'll answer many of your questions.

Tome · 07-05-2012, 04:43 PM

We play on 48" by 48" tables at the FLGS, but my meta leans more towards lower points games. Anything over 1500 gets a 48" by 72".

I don't know of anyone who'd play it outside. Maybe it's just British weather and all.

Penguinizer · 07-05-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

I have a 25 foot piece of hardware because I insist on being able to measure the entire range of all my weapons, and Basilisks clock in at 240".

Same for me. I mean, how else am I suppose to measure the range of my apocalypse missile launcher.

Eldan · 07-05-2012, 04:48 PM

Standard field size, as far as I know, is 48" by 48".

iyaerP · 07-05-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguinizer

Same for me. I mean, how else am I suppose to measure the range of my apocalypse missile launcher.

Seriously. Need the big tape for when you want to shoot the game four tables away.

Penguinizer · 07-05-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iyaerP

Seriously. Need the big tape for when you want to shoot the game four tables away.

You never know when you need to drop some pieplates on the store cash register.

BoSheck · 07-05-2012, 05:22 PM

6x4 is our usual table size. That's what I gravitate toward as a T/O, with 25% coverage for terrain. Obviously the terrain rules have, technically, adjusted, my intention is to monitor NOVA and other limelight tournaments and see just how they handle fortifications and what have you.

Edit: I find that a regular tape measure like you might get in a hardware store is sufficient. Something capable of measuring out to 48" is what you want. I don't feel the need for anything bigger, but since we're bragging about range, I'd need a GPS relay to get accurate distances on Living Lightning.

Renegade Paladin · 07-05-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldan

Standard field size, as far as I know, is 48" by 48".

No, standard is 48" by 72". I mean, it's in the rulebook, or was in 5th. GW has delayed our 6th edition shipments because they hate their customers. Playing on 48" by 48" drastically skews the game in favor of assault armies.

Cheesegear · 07-05-2012, 05:43 PM

Anyway, here's a shortlist;

Parent Codecies; Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Necrons
'Allies Only'; Chaos Daemons, Orks, Tau

If you want to take any of the above with whatever army you want, make sure they're in the slot that they actually want to be in. If your armies of choice are not on this list (i.e; Marines and Space Wolves), then have them in whatever detachment suits you best.

Until a real FAQ comes out detailing what gets the Flakk Missiles, I'm going to hold off on buying nine Flyers for myself. If the Errata comes back and says that Flakk Missiles are for everyone, then Flyers are worth dirt and everyone goes back to spamming Missile Launchers like 5th Ed. and nothing about the meta-game changes at all.

lord_khaine · 07-05-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Until a real FAQ comes out detailing what gets the Flakk Missiles, I'm going to hold off on buying nine Flyers for myself. If the Errata comes back and says that Flakk Missiles are for everyone, then Flyers are worth dirt and everyone goes back to spamming Missile Launchers like 5th Ed. and nothing about the meta-game changes at all.

Ahh, but according to my prediction we wont get a Errata on Flakk missiles before you have bought at least 2-3 flyers

Squark · 07-05-2012, 06:07 PM

Judging by the text, flakk missiles will likely be widely available, but they'll be an upgrade.

Renegade Paladin · 07-05-2012, 06:11 PM

Which might make me actually spam missile launchers instead of lascannons. I had another pair of Valkyries under consideration anyway, though, so the edition change is still tipping the balance in favor of getting them (I presently have one and a Forge World Vulture, which in the absence of errata can be reasonably assumed to have the same hull points as a Valkyrie).

Tome · 07-05-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Anyway, here's a shortlist;

>SNIP<

Saying this again, but thanks for the writing this stuff up Cheesegear. It's very helpful for list building.

Forrestfire · 07-05-2012, 09:47 PM

I'm actually trying to get back into 40k because of 6th edition, and with terminators apparently being more survivable, maybe my beloved deathwing is viable now?

What do people think of a deathwing army with allied tau? (I think that works...)

Cheesegear · 07-06-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forrestfire

maybe my beloved deathwing is viable now?

Maybe viable? Now!? Deathwing have been one of the top armies in the game ever since they get re-Errata'd about a year and a half ago.

Quote:

What do people think of a deathwing army with allied tau? (I think that works...)

It depends entirely on your meta-game - the people you play against. Most of the Flyers in the game are some of the more expensive kits you can buy (I wonder why that is...

) so it may be possible that you can get away with Deathwing and Tau if your meta doesn't have many Flyers in it.

If your meta does have Flyers in it, you're going to need to max out on Broadsides and Twin-Linking everything. And in that case you're better option would be Tau with Allied Deathwing, since you can get more Broadsides (Twin-Linked Railguns, that is) that way. If you can't do that, you're going to need some bodies and some Flyers of your own, which means Deathwing and Imperial Guard.

Forrestfire · 07-06-2012, 01:57 AM

I must have missed the errata. I stopped playing like 2 years ago >.>

In any case, my meta has zero fliers that I know of, most of us are guys who have armies just sitting around and are getting back in with 6th.

In any case, I'm probably going to see what I have and what I can get to figure out an army list. My area is fairly casual, so it shouldn't be too bad. From what I have, it looks like I'm going to have a few squads of terminators optimized for assault and battlesuits and a unit of fire warriors to add a bit more shooting power.

Renegade Paladin · 07-06-2012, 03:02 PM

Forge World has updated the rules for Apocalypse and their 40k vehicles. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html

Also, we really should have gone with "Flyers are Forever."

LeSwordfish · 07-06-2012, 03:18 PM

"Flyer's are a girl's best friend"?

Also, not to be annoying, but any comments/criticism/suggestions on the army i posted before/below would be really cool.

Spoiler

Renegade Paladin · 07-06-2012, 03:31 PM

Your melta henchmen will die horribly since they don't have a ride and are basically Guard. I suppose the Crusaders will soak wounds (and do it better with the wound allocation change), but for meltas to be at their best, you want them to be up front, which creates massive problems with the new allocation rules.

That's about all I've got, since I don't play Grey Knights.

evisiron · 07-06-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeSwordfish

"Flyer's are a girl's best friend"?

Also, not to be annoying, but any comments/criticism/suggestions on the army i posted before/below would be really cool.

I actually really like this list. It's got a nice strong theme to it.

Tabletop wise, a few things to keep in mind:
1. The Assassin points might be better spent elsewhere, especially since picking out models isn't unique to him any more. points might be spent better elsehwere.
2. The vendetta, despite being a flyer, may suffer from "only AV available" syndrome and get shot at with literally every anti-tank weapon. By dropping it, the opponents points spent on anti tank are wasted.
3. The Purifiers will be slow, and get targeted with all of the AP3

You are will be very slow due to foot slogging.
Personally, I would consider taking Interceptors instead of Purifiers to help you reach things hiding out of sight. Marbo on the IG allies side could help with this too to a certain degree. Some of the spare points could be put into a Aegis defence line with Quad gun to help defend against Flyers and offer some much needed cover if you drop the Vendetta.
I would also worry about 2+ armour, but that isn't anything a little plasma won't fix.

Tome · 07-06-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeSwordfish

"Flyer's are a girl's best friend"?

Also, not to be annoying, but any comments/criticism/suggestions on the army i posted before/below would be really cool.

Spoiler

Okay, first up is the Inquisitor. I know it's tempting to stick more melta in wherever you can, but this guy usually prefers having a pistol if he's being thrown into close combat. Take the combi-melta off him and use the points for something else. I'm assuming you intend for him to accompany the Purifiers?

Next is the melta-acolytes. Why are they footslogging? Those Crusaders are pretty durable for their points, sure, but they're not that durable. If you want melta-acolytes, stick them in a Chimera. Or you could just take actual melta-vets, since you have IG allies anyway and they're probably better at it.

Speaking of, your allies seem a bit off. You're kind of wasting your CCS and Veterans by using them to tote around a single Lascannon each. If you're taking them just so you can field the Vendetta, consider dropping the allied detachment entirely and fielding a Stormraven instead - it makes an excellent ride for you Purifiers and still functions reasonably well as a gunboat. Alternatively, you could both of them into meltagun units in chimeras to replace the melta-acolytes so that they're actually doing something worth their points.

You also might want some more durable troops, like a strike squad or even a small unit of termies. Possibly with an Incinerator so they can clear off objectives. All the ones you have currently are fairly fragile.

Renegade Paladin · 07-06-2012, 07:29 PM

The grand review of my army:

Spoiler

This has been static at the current state of painting for months. I have the house to myself for the next week, which means I can spread my stuff out to work on. There will be after pictures. I'm posting up here mainly to motivate myself.