Hm... Well, Roen isn't entirely Shebali; his father was Illuskan. That leaves him with a combination of features somewhere between Mongolian (as the Shebali are descended from the Arkaiun nomads of the East, this is always how I imagined them) and Nordic, with somewhat dusky skin. It was a common practice in early slaveholding cultures to identify slaves by a "clipped ear," a small cut through the top of the ear, and the Dambrathans are nasty enough to go for that sort of thing. If you think it'll add character, by all means, go for it.
Thanks again for wanting to draw him! I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Ah! Awesome. A mix of Mongolian and Nordic will be challenging but deadly fun. I may have a few more questions for you (and the others) to field (if you want to of course), as far as details & preferences... but I'll try not to let it get annoying. I could have wasted a lot of time asking about how Perelia's armour/robes should look before I realized the swirling lightshow would make them practically indistinguishable.
With my question above I was also hoping to find out helpful things for the RP, so that my character wouldn't know something they shouldn't about someone's heritage or class! Thanks for answering.
I'm also working on my next post (which is not at ALL what I expected to be writing), though I have to figure out of Doroga knocked me on my ass first.
Quote:
The druid takes up her seat again and requests another wine, murmuring to Daurily, "Had I been born a half-orc, I would've shoved those sickly tindertwigs up the chimney and lit a fire."
Okay, now that's just awesome. I gotta try that.
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Doroga's eyebrows climb his forehead as he realizes what just happened. Well, they would have if they still existed.
I know! I laughed when I saw how close. I'm gonna roll the strength check to try and trip you now, as I write the rest of my post. You want to go ahead and roll to avoid, to see if you've gotta drop it?
Quote:
Strength check to try and trip Doroga: (1d20+6)[7]
Heh nevermind, I rolled a one. You aren't gonna be tripped by that.
Hells bells is right. Nearly gutted me in one swing! You could easily kill me with another hit like that, not just knock me down!
-edit-
Just gotta wait and see what the dwarf does before I go and move again.
To you're first part: Heh, yeah. I may not have a great tactical ability, like be able to trip people from 10-feet away, but... Hulk Smash! I'm actually a little vexed that I rolled 2d6 and got 3.
And to the second: True, we'll have to see what Smokey the Dwarf does, but between you smacking at him a couple times, me setting him on fire, then both of us smacking at him a couple more times, I'm not afraid he's going to beat us both and steal the prize.
35 feet on a side. ie, just enough room for each person to stand in a corner with 30 feet between us. As for where we are, that's harder. I actually have a map I made, but I can't tell exactly which square you're in, since we started listing directions in distance to enemy, not exact distance traveled.
Here, try this link, it's a rough map. You're blue, I'm brown. The lines represent moves, and where it branches represents the two possibilities for where we're at, with the circled ones being the most likely positions.
Will be posting in the next few hours before work! I'll be posting for the combat, and waiting to post for the Inn scene after Neth and Perelia have had a chance to respond. Perhaps we can get this combat mostly over before things really start to happen over at the Ashabenford Arms, eh? No rush for you fighty types, just a thought.
TSM
EDIT: Or maybe we can just split the timestreams again?
EDIT 2: Posted!! Depending on how long you guys take, I might even get another post in before work...
Here, try this link, it's a rough map. You're blue, I'm brown. The lines represent moves, and where it branches represents the two possibilities for where we're at, with the circled ones being the most likely positions.
- Key
Sweet, thanks! Aaaand crud, I'm not sure why I thought the place was bigger.
Will be posting in the next few hours before work! I'll be posting for the combat, and waiting to post for the Inn scene after Neth and Perelia have had a chance to respond. Perhaps we can get this combat mostly over before things really start to happen over at the Ashabenford Arms, eh? No rush for you fighty types, just a thought. :smallcool
Whoops, sorry about holding things up. I could have sworn my post had gone through yesterday, but it seems that the forum decided to smite it just as I got into a faster posting rate.
__________________
I'm currently recruiting for my Red Hand of Doom game set in Eberron. Come check it out!
A nice solid round for me, but I'll be damned if I think I'm still going to win this with anything but a few buckets of luck. I've got 25 hp to grind through, you've got 6.
If I get lucky enough to keep you on the ground and out of reach, I get AoO every time you try to get close enough (I think. I'm not sure about movement while prone...). Still, that'd be some very amazing rolling (though, a critical wouldn't hurt right now!)
I need an opposed attack roll from you Key. I -think- it gets a penalty because you're not holding the weapon like a weapon but as an item (2 handed weapon in one hand, not possible to preform combat maneuvers that way), which gives a -4 to your roll.
Wait wait, I could go another way. You're holding it in 1 hand, but it's a two handed weapon. So it's treated as an over sized 1 handed weapon which is a -2 to attack penalty... but do you get proficiency like that? If not, it would give you a -6 penalty in addition to removing any other benefits of weapon focus, etc...
I suppose we'll have to wait until TSM can give us a ruling on it. I'll post the action then, and we can either wait until he makes a ruling before you post the results of my action (and your own round), or you can pick whichever of those scenarios you agree with above. I'll go with any of them you deem appropriate in support of keeping this fight rolling.
-edit-
OH, since you went all Two Weapon Fighting on me, I think that penalty applies too. Maybe. I love gray areas. XD
Last edited by TheDivineWind : 07-17-2012 at 03:24 PM.
I need an opposed attack roll from you Key. I -think- it gets a penalty because you're not holding the weapon like a weapon but as an item (2 handed weapon in one hand, not possible to preform combat maneuvers that way), which gives a -4 to your roll.
Wait wait, I could go another way. You're holding it in 1 hand, but it's a two handed weapon. So it's treated as an over sized 1 handed weapon which is a -2 to attack penalty... but do you get proficiency like that? If not, it would give you a -6 penalty in addition to removing any other benefits of weapon focus, etc...
I suppose we'll have to wait until TSM can give us a ruling on it. I'll post the action then, and we can either wait until he makes a ruling before you post the results of my action (and your own round), or you can pick whichever of those scenarios you agree with above. I'll go with any of them you deem appropriate in support of keeping this fight rolling.
-edit-
OH, since you went all Two Weapon Fighting on me, I think that penalty applies too. Maybe. I love gray areas. XD
Ooh, good choice of tactics. This might really screw me up (even more then my crappy attack roll).
What follows is half replying to you, half thinking out loud. That's why it's so long. As an aside, I fricking LOVE grey areas like this, and talking about them.
Lemme see. Well to start, I don't get an AoO (can't even throw) since those are melee only, and I don't threaten the square you're on anyways.
As for holding it in one hand, to be honest I'd assumed I had grasped it in both hands again (a free action, or so I've been told). However, I didn't actually say that, now did I? Hmm. I'm not sure what to do about that, to be honest. I'm torn between "well, that was my **** up" and "I figured that part could be assumed."
You raise a good point that if it is still only in my left hand, it might not be considered a weapon; the rules are bloedy murky on that point. I suppose the question comes down to what feature of the item/weapon makes the difference? For example, you get a +4 bonus for using a two-hander. Is it because you're using two hands to hold it? If so, then you should get the bonus for using a weapon in two hands, but the rules just say two-hander. Is it because of the size of the weapon? If so, I would hypothetically still get the +4, cause the weapon didn't get smaller.
Personally, I would say that it's still a weapon, and a two-handed weapon at that. I base this off the fact that you get a -4 for using a Light Weapon in a disarm, so it's apparently based off the size of the weapon. That's just my off-the-cuff opinion though.
As far as being proficient in it (if it's treated as an over-sized weapon used in one-hand) I would get the -2 for it being too large for me, but I do still have proficiency in all greatswords, regardless of size.
And for two-weapon fighting, I'm not actually. I looked it up (you can read it here if you want, the Attack Penalties section) and you only have two-weapon fighting penalties if you want to attack with both weapons. Since I only attacked once, with the main hand, no penalties.
Drat it all. I'm not sure. I'm gonna go ahead and roll, but let's let TSM figure out which modifiers to apply, what hand(s) it's in, etc. etc. He's the DM, let him hurt his brain on this one. Hopefully the roll will allow him to get everything summed back up without this taking much time. Regardless of what he decides... I'll still be kicking myself for not even considering you might do this.
- Key
Edit: Darn it. The more I think about it, the less comfortable I am saying that I "assumed" the weapon was back in both hands. Yes, I did. But if I really wanted it to be in both hands, I should have bloedy well said so, shouldn't I? I mean, you're entire tactic here is based around that. So yeah, I was only holding it in my left hand, and I am apparently an idiot. If I lose the contest because of this, it will serve me right.
Rolling Attack Roll (Base) versus Disarm: (1d20+11)[17]
Ooh, a tie for the base. Now I'm dieing to see which modifiers he applies
Edit2: Oh, to keep it moving, just in case he decides to apply enough modifiers I win, I went ahead and rolled a second one to attempt to disarm you, so that doesn't hold anything up. I'll roll it base again, and then I would apply the same modifiers.
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Rolling Reactive Disarm Attempt (Base): (1d20+11)[26]
Ooh, good choice of tactics. This might really screw me up (even more then my crappy attack roll).
What follows is half replying to you, half thinking out loud. That's why it's so long. As an aside, I fricking LOVE grey areas like this, and talking about them.
Awwwww yeaaaaaah
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Lemme see. Well to start, I don't get an AoO (can't even throw) since those are melee only, and I don't threaten the square you're on anyways.
As for holding it in one hand, to be honest I'd assumed I had grasped it in both hands again (a free action, or so I've been told). However, I didn't actually say that, now did I? Hmm. I'm not sure what to do about that, to be honest. I'm torn between "well, that was my **** up" and "I figured that part could be assumed."
You raise a good point that if it is still only in my left hand, it might not be considered a weapon; the rules are bloedy murky on that point. I suppose the question comes down to what feature of the item/weapon makes the difference? For example, you get a +4 bonus for using a two-hander. Is it because you're using two hands to hold it? If so, then you should get the bonus for using a weapon in two hands, but the rules just say two-hander. Is it because of the size of the weapon? If so, I would hypothetically still get the +4, cause the weapon didn't get smaller.
I would think it's a little of both to be honest. Your grip is improved because you have two hands on it, and it's harder to move a two handed weapon. HOWEVER, not all two handed weapons have a ton of mass to them, so I'm more inclined to think it is because of your grip.
Then again, all of them are of a fairly large size making them more unweildly, so you do have a point there too.
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Personally, I would say that it's still a weapon, and a two-handed weapon at that. I base this off the fact that you get a -4 for using a Light Weapon in a disarm, so it's apparently based off the size of the weapon. That's just my off-the-cuff opinion though.
A valid argument~ Not sure if I fully agree, but completely valid. I would suggest, however, that since it is currently being used as an oversized 1-handed weapon, and there is no penalty for attempting to disarm people using oversized weapons, only a penalty if the NPC/player is of a larger size, then you wouldn't get the +4.
This calls into question what qualifies a 2-handed weapon. A greatsword in a halfling's hands is akin to an awkward longsword in a human's, and a short sword to a giant. A giant cannot use it as a 2 handed weapon, but it is called a 2-handed weapon because it must be used (for the size) with 2 hands. This suggests that the weapon is only a two handed weapon if it is being utilized as such, and backed up by how the penalties are defined with regards to opponent size in the disarm action description.
Yet another gray area!
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As far as being proficient in it (if it's treated as an over-sized weapon used in one-hand) I would get the -2 for it being too large for me, but I do still have proficiency in all greatswords, regardless of size.
Ahhh, good point. I agree completely with this.
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And for two-weapon fighting, I'm not actually. I looked it up (you can read it here if you want, the Attack Penalties section) and you only have two-weapon fighting penalties if you want to attack with both weapons. Since I only attacked once, with the main hand, no penalties.
True. However, consider this. You only attacked with the dagger, but you are rolling an attack roll with the other weapon in the same turn. Does it qualify? NO IDEA!!
=DDDDDDD
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Drat it all. I'm not sure. I'm gonna go ahead and roll, but let's let TSM figure out which modifiers to apply, what hand(s) it's in, etc. etc. He's the DM, let him hurt his brain on this one. Hopefully the roll will allow him to get everything summed back up without this taking much time. Regardless of what he decides... I'll still be kicking myself for not even considering you might do this.
Huzzah, I was clever! That Aldhavan Betrayal game (giant sandbox game that ended several months ago, ran for over a year) really taught me how to fight with a melee character. Brute strength and damage are useful, but one can be really tricky with maneuvers if they want. This build has been a culmination of what I learned there and my attempts to mix arcane and melee effectively. Improved Disarm is on my list of feats to acquire, but my next open feat isn't until level 9.
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Edit: Darn it. The more I think about it, the less comfortable I am saying that I "assumed" the weapon was back in both hands. Yes, I did. But if I really wanted it to be in both hands, I should have bloedy well said so, shouldn't I? I mean, you're entire tactic here is based around that. So yeah, I was only holding it in my left hand, and I am apparently an idiot. If I lose the contest because of this, it will serve me right.
You sir, are honorable. If a mutual "D'oh" moment helps, I once engaged a wizard a deal of levels above me with a rogue (whisper gnome with the silent strike feat) and NEVER THOUGHT TO USE THE SILENCING ABILITY, despite four opportunities to use it. Nearly bought the farm as a result, but I got permanently blinded. Managed to beat her into submission before she got the next spell off, barely.
Ooh, a tie for the base. Now I'm dieing to see which modifiers he applies
Edit2: Oh, to keep it moving, just in case he decides to apply enough modifiers I win, I went ahead and rolled a second one to attempt to disarm you, so that doesn't hold anything up. I'll roll it base again, and then I would apply the same modifiers.
Okay, I'll wait for TSM's call then so I can choose my tactics appropriately depending on the results of the round.
SO EXCITING!
-edit-
OSNAP. I didn't even think about it...
Quote:
Prone
The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
That plus the -2 from wielding an oversized weapon (the only two penalties we can really confirm) puts you at a -6. You could still get a +4 from a 2-handed weapon, and our DM could okay you switching back to 2 hands so's not to get the oversized weapon penalty.
All of which would put us at a tie. Cripes. This could come down to how you define a 2-weapon attack.
Last edited by TheDivineWind : 07-17-2012 at 06:21 PM.
Sorry this took so long. Suffered a minor head trauma earlier due to comical basement/illumination circumstances that were COMPLETELY out of my control.
Now for more head trauma:
The way I see it, Ryn gets the Prone penalties as linked to above, and did not in fact switch back to having the weapon in two hands due to the throw attack (which I'm not reeeaaally sure was ENTIRELY legit, but it's cool because it was totally badass and fizzled anyway) and the fact that he forgot to state the switch. He is proficient in greatswords, but receives off-hand penalties as normal and doesn't get the the two-hander bonus. That's tough, I know, but I think it's fair.
So:
- prone penalties
- off-hand two-weapon fighting penalties
- no two-hander bonus.
If there was anything else needed clarification, sorry! Let me know and I'll get to it tonight in between ice-packs.
Love these rule interpretation discussions by the way gents, even if I'm not as crunch-minded as all that. Keeps the gears a'grinding. So why don't you two fighty types make any alterations you need to based on the ruling, and then I'll make a post. Or, if you guys are happy and have no additional questions, you can feel free to describe the results and continue onto the next rounds yourselves. Let me know what you decide.
Also, not sure if Neth will be posting tonight, as she's at a dance lesson and I'm not sure when it's over with. If she doesn't post tonight, I'll post tomorrow anyway for Roen and Perelia.
Woo, more posts tonight! Hope you're feeling better, though I'm reminded of some amusing gifs including lighting fixtures and semi-inflated air-mattresses.
Concerning the call: Allright, I believe that leaves me disarming Key with a decent margin. Since the disarm was done as my turn action, it is Key's turn. I'm excited to see what you do!
I would think it's a little of both to be honest. Your grip is improved because you have two hands on it, and it's harder to move a two handed weapon. HOWEVER, not all two handed weapons have a ton of mass to them, so I'm more inclined to think it is because of your grip.
Then again, all of them are of a fairly large size making them more unweildly, so you do have a point there too.
See, I agree with the logic here, that your grip on the weapon would play a major role in deciding how easy it is to disarm you. Logic isn't always used in D&D though, mores the pity.
You're point about the mass of the weapon is also well taken, though I'll point out I actually spoke of the size of the weapon, not it's mass. As an example, I'm holding an 8 pound, 5 foot long piece of steel. You're holding a 12 pound, 10 foot long stick with a steel blade/hook on the end. Logically speaking, it should be harder for you to exert enough force on the greatsword (barring the use of a lever), but you have 9 feet of stick to readjust your grip onto, while I only have maybe a foot. Frankly, it should be really bloedy difficult for either of us to disarm each other like this.
Again though, that's just trying to use logic to clarify mechanics, which aren't necessarily susceptible to that. Besides, then we have you're next point:
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A valid argument~ Not sure if I fully agree, but completely valid. I would suggest, however, that since it is currently being used as an oversized 1-handed weapon, and there is no penalty for attempting to disarm people using oversized weapons, only a penalty if the NPC/player is of a larger size, then you wouldn't get the +4.
This calls into question what qualifies a 2-handed weapon. A greatsword in a halfling's hands is akin to an awkward longsword in a human's, and a short sword to a giant. A giant cannot use it as a 2 handed weapon, but it is called a 2-handed weapon because it must be used (for the size) with 2 hands. This suggests that the weapon is only a two handed weapon if it is being utilized as such, and backed up by how the penalties are defined with regards to opponent size in the disarm action description.
Yet another gray area!
You've got an excellent point that treating the weapon as a Large Longsword is a possibility. So I went and looked up the specifics on how a weapon is categorized as a two-handed weapon. According to the Players Handbook (page 113, or SRD here) it amounts to the amount of effort needed to wield it effectively for the creature size it was designed for, which makes it a two-handed weapon, regardless of how many hands are currently holding it, so long as it's a medium weapon (it is) being used by a medium creature (I am).
There is a section on that same page about re-categorizing the weapon based upon the size of the wielder, which relates to the points you raised about halflings and giants. It only changes the category (from two-handed to one-handed) and I'm not sure it applies, since I'm not Large.
I also found a variant rule in the DMG (page 27, Weapon Equivalences) as I was writing this (literally, right in the middle of writing the last sentence, while I was looking up unusual weapon sizes) which talks about equating a weapon with a different weapon for a different size category. Specifically, it does list a Medium Greatsword as being equivalent to a Large Longsword. As far as I know we're not using that variant though.
Still even with all this research, I wouldn't be adverse to just saying I'm using it as an over-large weapon in one hand, therefore earning the -2 and losing the +4 for it being two-handed. If nothing else, it would be a hell of a lot simpler.
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True. However, consider this. You only attacked with the dagger, but you are rolling an attack roll with the other weapon in the same turn. Does it qualify? NO IDEA!!
Nope, doesn't fly, for a couple of reasons. First, I'm not *currently* wielding two-weapons. I threw the dagger at you on my initiative, so it no longer has any effect on what I'm doing. The same circumstances would apply if I was a two-weapon fighter (shudder) and had dropped one of them - the moment it leaves my hand, it no longer matters.
Second, because the penalties only apply if I either make, or choose to reserve the right to make, a *full attack action.* This isn't a full attack, it's a free reactive roll versus you're attack, so I still wouldn't get the penalty, even if I was holding the dagger still.
Quote:
Huzzah, I was clever! That Aldhavan Betrayal game (giant sandbox game that ended several months ago, ran for over a year) really taught me how to fight with a melee character. Brute strength and damage are useful, but one can be really tricky with maneuvers if they want. This build has been a culmination of what I learned there and my attempts to mix arcane and melee effectively. Improved Disarm is on my list of feats to acquire, but my next open feat isn't until level 9.
Yeah, unfortunately for me, very clever, and quick to spot my mistakes. I tend to lean towards simplicity in my tactics, cunning in my strategy. Or to put it another way, I'll come up with a great trap... and then just hit everyone who falls into it on the head.
Though I will point out that the nature of this fight does work against me. You're able to bring all you're tricks and tactics to the table now, while I have not my horse, nor lance, nor bow. I may be a simple "hit them on the head" type, but I'm versatile at it, normally.
Quote:
You sir, are honorable. If a mutual "D'oh" moment helps, I once engaged a wizard a deal of levels above me with a rogue (whisper gnome with the silent strike feat) and NEVER THOUGHT TO USE THE SILENCING ABILITY, despite four opportunities to use it. Nearly bought the farm as a result, but I got permanently blinded. Managed to beat her into submission before she got the next spell off, barely.
HAH! Okay, yeah, that does make me feel a bit better.
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Okay, I'll wait for TSM's call then so I can choose my tactics appropriately depending on the results of the round.
SO EXCITING!
We will know soon enough. I'm looking forward to the end of this, where we get to head to the inn and jump into the story.
Quote:
-edit-
OSNAP. I didn't even think about it...
That plus the -2 from wielding an oversized weapon (the only two penalties we can really confirm) puts you at a -6. You could still get a +4 from a 2-handed weapon, and our DM could okay you switching back to 2 hands so's not to get the oversized weapon penalty.
All of which would put us at a tie. Cripes. This could come down to how you define a 2-weapon attack.
Ooh, an excellent point. I'd read up on what prone was right after you tripped me, but skimmed that part, since I wasn't trying to do a melee attack. That is totally going to screw me over.
Edit: I know TSM has already replied to this, but gosh-darn it, I've spent 30 bloedy minutes researching and writing it, I'm gonna post the damn thing anyways.
Quick question for ya DW. While I plan out my next move, I was gonna update my little map. You went "5 feet backwards" before tripping me. In which direction?
- Key
Last edited by Keylac : 07-17-2012 at 08:23 PM.
Reason: Corrected Spelling.
The last thing to fly through his mind before the arrow hit him was...
He is not going to throw that arr...
Best line of the combat. I'm still chuckling.
And now, we wait for TSM to wrap it up, then we can head over to the inn for a beer and story!
Two side notes for TSM, now that I'm thinking of them:
1) Assuming they're mobile, I was going to invite the whole melee (dwarf, half-elf, and human) to the bar for a beer after we're done, along with the barbarian from the mounted combat. Most of the drinking can be done off-screen though, and it shouldn't interfere with the story (especially cause I can leave them to drink their way through my wallet why we get on with it).
2) I keep forgetting to ask, but did you want another response from me to the Uthgardt? You wrote another piece for him after the fight, but I wasn't sure if a post responding was needed.
Yup, hands down one of the funniest ways to end a fight ever. Ryn's all like "Throwing dagger didn't work. Sword too big. Throw arrow!" and calculating Doroga's all like "I'll try this! Hahah! Then this... nice! And now -" *arrow* "death."
You two fought admirably. Not to mention the civility of the meta-discussion. Warms the cockles, it does.
Key: A response to the Uthgardt would be cool. Mention in that post what you say to the half-elf and the dwarf, and I'll give you their responses, though I'll tell you now, the dwarf ain't going anywhere (at least not tonight) and the half-elf clearly wants to eat your face for the defeat, the dendelion comment, the severity of the winning blow, etc.
ALSO, Neth is almost done her next post. In my response, things will get under way with the whole party. That will happen pretty much right after Neth posts.
You two fought admirably. Not to mention the civility of the meta-discussion. Warms the cockles, it does.
Man, he earned it. I rolled terribly and gave him an opening to own the hell out of me with that first hit. I should have taken a round, ran across the field and used my belt, but I didn't think to.
Really, I'm more excited about how this will work out in allied combat. He'll take front lines while I can cover him with defensive magic and my guisarme, tripping and disarming our foes so he can rip them apart.
If the wizard (or myself in later levels) can give us a 5 foot choke point using battlefield control, we'll be a meat grinder. Throw in some summoned mobs, evards black tenticals, or various clouds of acid/pools of grease and a mob of enemies will be no more than so much maggot food.
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Warms the cockles, it does.
You, uh, might want to get those checked out...
Last edited by TheDivineWind : 07-18-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Re: The Journal of Herlam Corkwill - OOC
I may have a few more questions for you (and the others) to field (if you want to of course), as far as details & preferences... but I'll try not to let it get annoying. I could have wasted a lot of time asking about how Perelia's armour/robes should look before I realized the swirling lightshow would make them practically indistinguishable.
I looked it up (you can read it 
I'm gonna go ahead and roll, but let's let TSM figure out which modifiers to apply, what hand(s) it's in, etc. etc. He's the DM, let him hurt his brain on this one. 
