On an unrelated note, I added some information that I forgot yesterday to the end of turn post. For those of you who don't want to flip back to that page, the Laheim Contacts trait has been found in Old Jack's Run.
wasnt that trait already held by House Laurier?
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"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
huh, seems i have been totally wrong tis entire game then
Yep, the awesome mercs are mine! Well, the Blackfists and the doctor can probably also talk to them for trivial fraction of their espionage budget, but eh.
Yep, the awesome mercs are mine! Well, the Blackfists and the doctor can probably also talk to them for trivial fraction of their espionage budget, but eh.
i dont need to speak with them anyways. send money their way, as well as a note as to what you want done and they'll be on the march within the hour.
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"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
okay, i should revise my statement to say i wouldnt give up the money without a fight.
with that said, if things go my way you couldnt easilly force it out of me, since you would need to fight through the rest of the stocks to get to my biggest source of income.
Just last turn I alone, with only a part of my forces, and with plenty of warning to you, fought through the entire Stocks to get to your biggest source of income. While killing your entire army in the process without even meaning to.
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Originally Posted by lamech
Trusting Murska worked out great!
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A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
Just last turn I alone, with only a part of my forces, and with plenty of warning to you, fought through the entire Stocks to get to your biggest source of income. While killing your entire army in the process without even meaning to.
(cough) Gears Chosen (cough). But yeah. It's either Taxes or Blood and Taxes.
Though it does look like most of the city is doing various projects... It's almost like it's actually working.
Edit:
Wait a sec. Copper8642, if Meredia is used for PM message, it means she wouldn't be able to act this turn. Maybe we can make it regular message?
Edit-Edit:
Also... any wish to become patron of arts? I'm going to put some considerable resources there and probably take a loan, but I don't think I've got enough on my own.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
Last edited by Thelonius : 10-18-2012 at 03:55 AM.
Hmm, maybe with taxes King can try another approach. Best way to justify tax collection and unify the nation behind your power - a short, victorious war.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
They contributed almost 20% of the attack. You might have made up the majority, but they certainly weren't negligible.
Plus you wouldn't be sending your full force anyway since that would just result in a repeat of last turns results, and this time I wouldn't be giving those neighborhoods back. I'd be going for the kill.
So you'd be sending a smaller force against a faction which has actually grown in the meantime and has probably been working hard to upgrade its defenses.
And while you might manage to win through with the help of the Champions you have to consider. Who does King James need more. You or the SGA.
Who does the King need more - loyal Wardens or refusing-to-pay-taxes SGA? Let's face it, SGA's love for the King is motivated by the fear of Wardens.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
Who does the King need more - loyal Wardens or refusing-to-pay-taxes SGA? Let's face it, SGA's love for the King is motivated by the fear of Wardens.
Ah, but we aren't refusing to pay taxes. Remember this discussion is about refusing to pay taxes because the wardens were given the right to collect them.
In fact from what I can see the SGA is just about the only group that actually is willing to pay taxes.
Hmm... Zemalac, what would be the mechanics behind taxing the populace?
Could it be something like; Every faction that accepts loses 1 morale, and for that the government receives 1 t.wealth each turn?
Seems like it would be nicer than faction tax. Instead of giving up a portion of your stats every turn, you take the hit once, correct it, then get back to using all your stats on your own business.
No because that would be equivalent to simply giving the government a stat point. And one that isn't bound by any stat caps.
There's a reason we're using a group project mechanic for the current tax, and that is I, and probably everyone else, refuse to just give you, or any other government, my stats. Any government strong enough to demand that of me is one that has won the game. So that is literally something I will not do in this game. Because a government capable of extracting that from my guild will only occur at or after the game ends.
Hmm... Zemalac, what would be the mechanics behind taxing the populace?
Could it be something like; Every faction that accepts loses 1 morale, and for that the government receives 1 t.wealth each turn?
Seems like it would be nicer than faction tax. Instead of giving up a portion of your stats every turn, you take the hit once, correct it, then get back to using all your stats on your own business.
What do people think?
I don't think it would be that simple. For one thing, some of the factions basically are citizens, such as Doctor Vassari or the Wren. And you would have to have some way of actually collecting those taxes. And of convincing the populace at large that you have the authority to collect taxes, which you cannot yet do with straight Influence.
Ah, but we aren't refusing to pay taxes. Remember this discussion is about refusing to pay taxes because the wardens were given the right to collect them.
King James can give the Wardens right to collect taxes from everybody except SGA (since we are willing to pay). Solves the issue right there. And nothing makes people more willing to pay taxes, then discriminate slaughter.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
Do we really have to end when the ruler is appointed? That seems like cutting off the fun arbitrarily.
Regardles, it's because it isn't limited by stat points that I suggested it. The current tax, if it was paid every turn, limits your maximum stats. Morale however can be increased as high as you want, so the tax could be paid without significantly limiting your power.
Also, I wasn't suggesting giving King James full autonomy. I understand you don't trust him to always act in your interest. I will work towards that. In the meantime, what I'm proposing is just another way of collecting the money. You can still refuse to give it to the King.
Do we really have to end when the ruler is appointed? That seems like cutting off the fun arbitrarily.
I would prefer for the game to last past ruler-appointment too (if it would happen). But it's really up to Zelmac. It takes a lot of energy to run a high-quality game.
Your proposed tax mechanic is actually MOR -> WEL -> Use WEL Every Turn to Pay Taxes. So it does take your limit.
My personal thoughts - James should work with the Council on the Taxes & propose projects that centralized authority is better at, then individual factions.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
I said when a government was strong enough to demand my stats.
A government could very well be appointed that is legitimate but hasn't soldiifed control enough to do that. But once they have solidified control that far, then it kind of precludes anyone else being able to do anything.
Also James completely rejected my proposal that others be given a say in how the tax money is used. Then he even took back the veto powers he had originally suggested. So yeah you did suggest that he have full autonomy.
Last edited by ArcaneStomper : 10-18-2012 at 11:09 AM.
Government having legitimacy and power to tax, doesn't mean nobody can do anything about it. Taxation is a dangerous game - it has caused numerous revolts and revolutions, some of the successful.
Let's face it, right now everyone is dithering, because they don't think James has it in him to start chopping off the heads of people, who won't pay their taxes. Is it about power or will to use power? Heck, our prison is run by the anarchists.
Edit: Hmm... Appoint Vasari as Tax Collector General, provide him with support of Wardens, and I'll bleed those tax-avoiding scum dry .
Edit: Well, honestly, making Sav Altulus pay taxes is just such a fun challenge to consider.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
Last edited by Thelonius : 10-18-2012 at 11:52 AM.
And I am one of those people. I do not think he has the power to just go around killing or imprisoning anyone who refuses to pay tax. I don't think he even has the right to impose taxes at all. Not yet.
I chose to support him because I planned to back him. To support his rise to the throne. No king gains the throne without allies, not if they want to keep it. But then he turns around an imposes a tax on me and all the SGA. No hints first, no asking what our opinion is, no asking what we would want in exchange. Just pay your taxes you lowly serfs.
Governments have the right to levy taxes, but in exchange they have the duty to protect their citizens and offer them their own rights. And so far King James hasn't done anything on that side of the bargain.
So King James has my support, but if he doesn't start delivering on his promises of prosperity, then he won't keep it. And if he starts setting the Wardens out like a bulldog on people who oppose him, then I'll be one of the ones who oppose him. Sure it wouldn't be me at first, but if you make the mistake of not helping people when the government starts cracking down, then there won't be anyone to help you when they decide its your turn.
Last edited by ArcaneStomper : 10-18-2012 at 12:00 PM.
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
Governments have the right to levy taxes, but in exchange they have the duty to protect their citizens and offer them their own rights. And so far King James hasn't done anything on that side of the bargain.
What about not letting Wardens slaughter SGA? If King James backed Wardens then, he could have split the Stacks with them and then either made peace with Sausage Guild or destroyed you as well. Wardens have very scary military.
Quote:
So King James has my support, but if he doesn't start delivering on his promises of prosperity, then he won't keep it. And if he starts setting the Wardens out like a bulldog on people who oppose him, then I'll be one of the ones who oppose him. Sure it wouldn't be me at first, but if you make the mistake of not helping people when the government starts cracking down, then there won't be anyone to help you when they decide its your turn.
Yeah, and who rose up against Wardens, when they threatened Mercantile Guild? Sausage Guild, since you are right next to Wardens. The rest of the city was between: ''oh that's terrible, you have our moral support'' and ''meh'' reaction.
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You are playing a dangerous game, Doctor. Think hard who you want and do not want to oppose. *steeples hands*
Well, it won't be IC to do it IC. I just would find the challenge interesting as a player.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
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