General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Hel65]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

Well, ideally you mix it in with actual Vitae (hence the Mandrake thing) before a setting in which the blush of life is expected (a rave party, Elysium, whatever). They gain a heartbeat and then the powdered wood lodges in their heart tissue.

Stealth staking. Your storyteller may or may not approve.

Wouldn't that just have the powdered wood lodging in the vampire's stomach? I was under impression that they actually drink blood and vitae in most cases and then mystically add it to their Vitae pools, not inject it intravenously (and with blush of life that surely would work via stomach and as probably a lot of people can attest, eating powdered wood or something similar - e.g. sand or flour or cinnamon - doesn't result in it lodging itself in your heart ;) ), and even then, why would it lodge itself in the heart and not veins? It would be a really generous Storytelling interpretation to let that fly.

[The Glyphstone]

That's an even better point - the circulatory system and the digestive system don't have any connections, so how would the powder in the Lacrima get from one to the other?

[TheCountAlucard]

Humorous note, cinnamon is made by harvesting the bark of a specific tree - if secreting powdered wood into a vampire's meal counts as staking them, then ordinary cinnamon should be able to do the job.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

That's an even better point - the circulatory system and the digestive system don't have any connections, so how would the powder in the Lacrima get from one to the other?

Well, nutrients and the like are absorbed through the small intestine, but only digestible(ish) stuff gets absorbed that way. And certain things (alcohol) can be absorbed directly into blood vessels in the mouth and esophagus. Of course, indigestible things, like wood, don't get absorbed. This is a gross oversimplification, but the fact that wood wouldn't enter the circulatory system through any part of the digestive tract remains.

All of that is moot, however, as it's true that vampires don't work that way. They drink blood, and then move it to wherever it needs to be. Considering that they don't bleed when wounded, I'd say it's reasonable to assume that Vitae just sort of sits in their stomachs until they move it elsewhere, though I suppose it is possible that they automatically move it into their heart and circulatory systems once they've consumed it.

[The Glyphstone]

I figure it's just 'there', not in any specific portion of their decayed and withered anatomy even if they are spending Vitae to animate those organs. If you stab a vampire or slash an artery open, they don't lose Vitae in addition to the health levels of damage taken, so while drinking blood increases their Vitae store, the physical medium of the blood itself isn't tied to the Vitae - for cross-reference, Ghouls retain their Vitae even after they've digested the blood they drink, and they're still alive.

[The Random NPC]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I figure it's just 'there', not in any specific portion of their decayed and withered anatomy even if they are spending Vitae to animate those organs. If you stab a vampire or slash an artery open, they don't lose Vitae in addition to the health levels of damage taken, so while drinking blood increases their Vitae store, the physical medium of the blood itself isn't tied to the Vitae - for cross-reference, Ghouls retain their Vitae even after they've digested the blood they drink, and they're still alive.

Blood destroying toxins do bashing lethal damage and cause a roughly equal amount of Vitae loss. I don't recall the page number Page 174, but it's in the section about snake bites.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by The Random NPC

Blood destroying toxins do bashing damage and cause an equal amount of Vitae loss. I don't recall the page number, but it's in the section about snake bites.

Ah, White Wolf and your total lack of consistency.
Okay, that's not fair. I forgot the rule that Vampires don't bleed unless they will themselves to, so slashing open an artery wouldn't cause any blood loss (and thus Vitae loss). I stand corrected.

[Eurus]

Yeah. I think Chiron actually knows how to stick a vamp and vacuum blood out while it's still alive, even.

[SiderealDreams]

CAS provides one last spoiler before we inch towards the release of Mummy:the Curse!

http://whitewolfblogs.com/mummy/2012...e-launch-post/

[JAnderson789]

Has anyone read Wraith: The Arising? I'm looking for reviews and opinions on it.

EDIT: Also, does anyone have any devotions that would let an Elder vampire embrace a childe with one or two additional dots of blood potency? Specifically, several devotions with different prerequisites that accomplish the same thing (so that no clan is at a particular experience cost disadvantage), but without the elder having to sacrifice his own BP (since this would allow him to get out of feeding restrictions, and there's already a Cruac ritual for that).

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus

So, I'm reading through various bits of Changeling, and a question has occurred to me. When a group of changelings are sharing a Hollow, how do they pay for the merit? If each wants to contribute 2 dots, does it cost each of them 6 XP for the two dots, or does it cost more depending on how they split the dots up? Also, if one of them wants to add a third dot to the shared merit, do they pay an additional 6 XP, or would it cost them 14 XP, as that would be the 7th dot? And if I missed where it clarified this in the core book, please tell me. I looked over the merit, but all I could find was the explanation of cost for a single changeling, where the total dots between aspects are added for determining the cost of another dot.

Lodged in the walls of text somewhere is a statement saying that XP expenditure on the hollow merit is based on the current number o dots in that category. So if everyone buy 1 dot for, say, size, the first is 3 xp, the second is 6, and the third is 9. Actual dots from character creation don't worry about this, they just add together.

Note that if one puts 2 dots in size, another 2 dots in security as the third 2 dots in amenities, that's only (3+6) 9 dots per changeling. I will find a page number when I can, but I spent today's looking for this before I caught it and ha to backtrack on character generation.

Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus

Elementals: People who were taken and infused with various elements. Where the beasts spent time as some kind of animal, these ones spent time as ice sculptures, snow drifts, river currents, breezes, living flames, living rocks, and the occasional tree.

objects, not natural elements. A clockwork mannequin, a war forged and pinocchio are all elementals.

Ogres: They'll grind your bones to make their bread. Or just smash you into pulp. They're big, they're ugly, they're occasionally cannibalistic.

I dunno. Two ogres I've played with are a beautiful, armored archangel (stow bones, dual kith for wingswift) and an anthropomorphic bloodhound (cyclopean). Changeling is one of those games where you ask the player what powers they want and then pick a seeming to fit.

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

(hesitates)

About how synched-up are nMage and nWerewolf's rules for Spirits?

Completely 100%. The difference is ideological; the Hisil is half of reality, vitally important to and the birthright of all uratha. The shadow is a twisted hell scape populated by a mockery of reality where even decent things ate twisted, predatory and insane. The rules don't change. Mages are just do high up the abstraction ladder they tend to miss the point. They can't see the trees for the continental weather patterns that lead to forest growth.

Originally Posted by Mephisto

So I've been playing (or reading, or viewing, or whatever the verb is for a visual novel) Fate/Stay Night, and have realized that

a) almost all of the things Caster does could be duplicated by a pre-archmastery Mage, albeit one with mastery of four or five Arcana.
b) the setting of FSN integrates pretty well with the World of Darkness.

Naturally I ended up thinking about how to run a Holy Grail War in the WoD. Servant summoning would use the rules from Summoners with some modifications to allow other supernaturals to summon. Servants would be equivalent to rank 4 or 5 spirits, significantly more powerful than average characters but not completely overpowered. After all,

Spoiler

Rin manages to blow Berserker's head off once, nulls Caster's magic and nearly beats her to death, and a buffed-up Kuzuki nearly kills Saber barehanded.

Current ideas for the Servant line-up:
Archer: ???
Assassin: Hassan-i-Sabbah as an Ascending One (Hunter)
Berserker: The Beast of Gevaudan (Werewolf) or Frankenstein's monster (Promethean)
Caster: generic mage of Atlantis
Lancer: Dracula or Longinus (Vampire)
Rider: Orpheus or Inanna (Sin-Eater)
Saber: Saint George (gender-flipped, of course) (Hunter)

Any suggestions or comments?

Get ahold of Thanqol, via PM. He's all over F:SN as a Mage analogue. The idea is the players are covert and the guardian things are all mostly vulgar. But I do it a disservice, compared to his expounding.

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I don't think I've ever met a storyteller that would let that slide -not for the least because that's not a 'stealth staking' so much as an automatic instant kill, since the 'stake' can't be removed once it's in.

Or the fact that by the time wood is ground so fine to e absorbed I tote system as a liquid it's not wood anymore? And if it's large enough for the splinters to puncture, they'll never get there because tissue?

[Hel65]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Lodged in the walls of text somewhere is a statement saying that XP expenditure on the hollow merit is based on the current number o dots in that category. So if everyone buy 1 dot for, say, size, the first is 3 xp, the second is 6, and the third is 9. Actual dots from character creation don't worry about this, they just add together.

Note that if one puts 2 dots in size, another 2 dots in security as the third 2 dots in amenities, that's only (3+6) 9 dots per changeling. I will find a page number when I can, but I spent today's looking for this before I caught it and ha to backtrack on character generation.

Please do find a page number regarding that, because when I was researching the answer to this question, the conclusion at which I arrived (via some snippets from the books and white wolf forums) was that residence merits like Hollow are really a 15 dot merits and to get one with 2 dots in security, 2 dots in amenities and 2 in size PCs would have to split spending 42 xp between themselves (and a fully tricked out residence would cost a whopping 360 xp).

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Lodged in the walls of text somewhere is a statement saying that XP expenditure on the hollow merit is based on the current number o dots in that category. So if everyone buy 1 dot for, say, size, the first is 3 xp, the second is 6, and the third is 9. Actual dots from character creation don't worry about this, they just add together.

You're thinking of Geist. Pages 95-96 in the core Changeling book say that "The combined pool of points is used to determine the cost in experience points for raising the Hollow Merit during play."

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Note that if one puts 2 dots in size, another 2 dots in security as the third 2 dots in amenities, that's only (3+6) 9 dots per changeling. I will find a page number when I can, but I spent today's looking for this before I caught it and ha to backtrack on character generation.

The question was answered a while ago, anyway, but yes, this was basically the explanation offered. the cost to each changeling investing in a shared hollow is based on how many dots he/she has put into the shared merit, not the total for the shared merit.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

objects, not natural elements. A clockwork mannequin, a war forged and pinocchio are all elementals.

Okay, the Manikins are objects. So are some of the Fairest. Most elementals are made of natural elements, however.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

I dunno. Two ogres I've played with are a beautiful, armored archangel (stow bones, dual kith for wingswift) and an anthropomorphic bloodhound (cyclopean). Changeling is one of those games where you ask the player what powers they want and then pick a seeming to fit.

That's the beauty of the system. But he asked for short, simple descriptions, and when most ogres are big and brutish, the typical ogre, troll, or giant from myth and legend, well...

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Hel65

Please do find a page number regarding that, because when I was researching the answer to this question, the conclusion at which I arrived (via some snippets from the books and white wolf forums) was that residence merits like Hollow are really a 15 dot merits and to get one with 2 dots in security, 2 dots in amenities and 2 in size PCs would have to split spending 42 xp between themselves (and a fully tricked out residence would cost a whopping 360 xp).

Bottom of 95, edging into 96;

Originally Posted by Changeling: The Lost

Each aspect of the Hollow Merit has a limit of 5. In other words, Hollow Size, Hollow Ammenities, Hollow Wards and Hollow Doors may not rise above 5 (to a maximum of 20 points spent on this merit). The combined pool of points is used to determine the cost in experience points for raising the Hollow Merit during play.

Combined pool for a combined merit. If four changelings each put 1 dot in Doors, then later try to add a door, that is the fifth dot, costing 15 XP.

Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus

You're thinking of Geist. Pages 95-96 in the core Changeling book say that "The combined pool of points is used to determine the cost in experience points for raising the Hollow Merit during play."

No, I am thinking of changeling and Mage, having never read Geist, seen it in person and usually not remembering it exists. I will also point out this does not contradict me at all, and actually supports my statement.

The question was answered a while ago, anyway, but yes, this was basically the explanation offered. the cost to each changeling investing in a shared hollow is based on how many dots he/she has put into the shared merit, not the total for the shared merit.

Incorrect. Combined pool. very clear. The big issue at this point is whether to count Doors, Amenities, Size and Wards as separate merits, or if the perfect hollow will eventually cost 60 points for the final dot.

Aha, okay. I'm sorry, I totally misconstrued what you meant. It could go either wy by literal reading, but yours is more in line with being playable.

Okay, the Manikins are objects. So are some of the Fairest. Most elementals are made of natural elements, however.

Some are also abstract concepts though. "night time" can be understood as an object, but is generally not an element. Although that's an argument I'll lose real quick, if you press it.

That's the beauty of the system. But he asked for short, simple descriptions, and when most ogres are big and brutish, the typical ogre, troll, or giant from myth and legend, well...

I know,but first impressions are important. I find printing new players in to the fold requires wording things in a way which does not preclude or exclude concepts. "all ogres are ugly dumb brutes" is kinda correct, in that all men are hairy and Loud. "all ogres are victims of bullying and struggle with it, being used for manual labor" is broadly applicable and doesn't contradict anything (that I can think of; I'm sure ts possible to build an ogre that makes this wrong). You could easily get strong out of manual labor, but you could also get endurance, and speed, and tracking ability, or fighting skill, or construction.

Ideological differences I suppose?

[The Glyphstone]

I think you've got it backwards - it's not that all Ogres are use for manual labor and thus they become big and strong, it's that all Ogres are big and strong and thus usually used for manual labor. Some ogres are laborers, some are gladiators, some are guardians - the only important thing is being big and strong (technically big and tough). If you were used for manual labor and didn't become a huge brute, then you weren't an Ogre.

[Fouredged Sword]

Six changelings where owned by the same gentry. He set them, and many others, to dig a ditch around his kingdom of rolling sand. They all spent each day in backbreaking labor, never knowing rest or water promised their freedom after the day was done in a land the sun never sets.

The first thought that he must just focus on the task and get though it. He became the task, and a wizened of the drunge seeming. He could dig faster than anyone, but he became easy to forget and sometimes he even forgets himself.

The second sang to pass the time. Though her throat was parched her singing would slow the lash of her cruel master. She became a fairest, gifted in songs sung of desperation.

The third gave up and became the sand. His bones could not abandon the ask though. His flesh eroded away and became dust, but the dust kept moving, always trudging forward unable to stop. He became an elemental.

The fourth had his flesh burned by the harsh unending sun. He always hid in the shadows of his fellow workers, forcing them to bear the brunt of the suns rays. He became the shade that never grants relief, your own shadow, a darkling.

The fifth was tormented most by the hunger. He was a large fellow to start with and his hunger slowed him down and drew the master's whip. Eventually he gave in and ate a bite off a worker who fell behind. It gave him the strength to avoid the lash for a while. Soon he ate all the corpses who gave into the desert. He became an ogre who eats the fallen.

The Sixth dropped his shovel one day and the sand took it. In desperation he began to dig with his hands. The sand burned his fingers back to the bone, leaving large claws in their place. He lost his eyesight to the glare of the sun and his head hunched into his shoulders to block the wind. Before he knew it he was a mole, adapted to dig though the sand, a beast.

It doesn't matter what you do for your master while you are enslaved, what maters is what you do to yourself, and how what you did changed you. What part of you was sacrificed to survive on the other side of the thorns. Was it your sanity like a wizened? Was it your dignity like a fairest? Was it your sense of self like an elemental? Was it the joy of light like a darkling? Was it your morality like an ogre? Was it your humanity like a beast?

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I think you've got it backwards - it's not that all Ogres are use for manual labor and thus they become big and strong, it's that all Ogres are big and strong and thus usually used for manual labor. Some ogres are laborers, some are gladiators, some are guardians - the only important thing is being big and strong (technically big and tough). If you were used for manual labor and didn't become a huge brute, then you weren't an Ogre.

I disagree. The defining traits of an ogre are A) can magically boost strength, brawl and intimidate, and shaky composure. A redcap is only four feet tall and able to throw trucks, and a wolfhound may be seven feet tall an frightening, but lithe, agile an no stronger than a normal man. Ogres are "always Brutish in some way", and "kidnapped by monsters, they become monsters". Like I said, it's mutable, but I see the ability to frighten, beat and struggle violently, along with an inability to control your outbursts (the ogre blessing and curse, respectively) indicative of the syndrome where someone who is bullied becomes a bully. More than anything an ogre struggles with the fact that if they just do as their keeper did and beat people into obedience, it would be faster and easier.

fouredged sword has the right of it of course, but of there is a causative nature, I feel that Durance leads to seeming more than future seeming leads to durance. Or that your seeming and kith can inform your build but that your build does not inform your kith and seeming.

[Sir_Mopalot]

Not to break the flow of conversation, but it's worth noting that Drive Through RPG's halloween giveaway this year includes a free PDF copy of the WoD core book. Just a PSA.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Bottom of 95, edging into 96; Combined pool for a combined merit. If four changelings each put 1 dot in Doors, then later try to add a door, that is the fifth dot, costing 15 XP.

Individual Merit, though not shared. Sharing works a bit... differently. Or I should hope it does, at any rate.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

No, I am thinking of changeling and Mage, having never read Geist, seen it in person and usually not remembering it exists. I will also point out this does not contradict me at all, and actually supports my statement.

Ah, okay. In Geist, as opposed to (as far as I recall) every other NWoD gameline, each trait is considered a separate merit for determining cost. Making a maxed out Haunt cheaper than any other "living space" merit.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Incorrect. Combined pool. very clear. The big issue at this point is whether to count Doors, Amenities, Size and Wards as separate merits, or if the perfect hollow will eventually cost 60 points for the final dot.

Aha, okay. I'm sorry, I totally misconstrued what you meant. It could go either wy by literal reading, but yours is more in line with being playable.

There ya go.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Some are also abstract concepts though. "night time" can be understood as an object, but is generally not an element. Although that's an argument I'll lose real quick, if you press it.

Night time is really more in line with a darkling (or a fairest of a certain kith), though. I'm not completely familiar with elementals, however, so if they have a kith that represents night time (or day time, another fairest kith), let me know.

Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword

It doesn't matter what you do for your master while you are enslaved, what maters is what you do to yourself, and how what you did changed you. What part of you was sacrificed to survive on the other side of the thorns. Was it your sanity like a wizened? Was it your dignity like a fairest? Was it your sense of self like an elemental? Was it the joy of light like a darkling? Was it your morality like an ogre? Was it your humanity like a beast?

Yes and no. Your examples are valid, but you could be made into something different by your Keeper, without any say in the matter. It varies from changeling to changeling, but generally speaking kith and seeming should reflect durance in some manner. In the case of your durance example, your seemings are all valid. I could also posit that six changelings are taken for the same purpose, and are whipped and beaten if they do not dig fast enough, regardless of anything else. Through the beatings, and the backbreaking manual labor, they all become ogres. This is also a valid option. If the Keeper that took them treated them like beasts, beasts they would become. Seeming and kith reflect many things, the will to survive, the nature of the durance, and the Keeper itself. Any of those can be used to determine what seeming and kith a changeling gets from his/her durance.

Originally Posted by SiuiS

fouredged sword has the right of it of course, but of there is a causative nature, I feel that Durance leads to seeming more than future seeming leads to durance. Or that your seeming and kith can inform your build but that your build does not inform your kith and seeming.

I'm inclined to agree, as noted above.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are right that the shape a changeling ends up in has many ways it can be determined. I simply wanted to show that the same durance could result in very different changelings. IE, holding all other factors the same can result in varied outcomes due to internal factors. It is rightly complicated though, and is best left that way to allow players to adapt the story to create the character they want rather than the character the rules would force them to make.

[The Glyphstone]

Whereas I was pointing out that multiple different durances can result in the same Seeming. It's even illuminated in the book by the different Kiths, and the Durance section. The same reasonings and factors you're talking about, but looked at in reverse, for people who start with mechanics first and work backwards.

[Morty]

Random questions: are there any powers that can prevent a supernatural from using their supernatural "fuel" (Vitae, Essence, Mana et cetera)? I can't think of any myself.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Morty

Random questions: are there any powers that can prevent a supernatural from using their supernatural "fuel" (Vitae, Essence, Mana et cetera)? I can't think of any myself.

The Strix (owl-spirits from Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead) can project an aura that prevents Vampires from spending Vitae.

[Fouredged Sword]

A spirit/death mage could likely mess up anything that wanted to use essence.

[Eurus]

Originally Posted by Morty

Random questions: are there any powers that can prevent a supernatural from using their supernatural "fuel" (Vitae, Essence, Mana et cetera)? I can't think of any myself.

I seem to recall one of the five-dot werewolf gifts (Alpha, maybe?) locks down supernatural abilities for a while.

[Morty]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

The Strix (owl-spirits from Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead) can project an aura that prevents Vampires from spending Vitae.

Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword

A spirit/death mage could likely mess up anything that wanted to use essence.

I see. Good to know.

Originally Posted by Eurus

I seem to recall one of the five-dot werewolf gifts (Alpha, maybe?) locks down supernatural abilities for a while.

I've heard of it too, but I think it locks down all of them, even those that don't require fuel. Unsurprisingly, it's also considered broken.

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword

Ok, melee for mortals 101 - Combat styles, combat styles, combat styles.

Swords have a few relevant combat styles. Pick up the armory and the armory reloaded.

Aggressive light sword (fencing) - Armory pg210
defensive Striking (Iaido) - Reloaded pg76
Sword and Shield - Reloaded pg 92
Two weapon Fighting -core pg 112
Heavy Sword - reloaded pg 83

Ok, you have three general ideas.

The caped matador - defensive fighter

Spoiler

The core of this build is a fencing foil and cape.

You need -
Sword and shield 000
Fencing 0000
Two weapon fighting 00

Spec your stats for good defense. A shield will give you +1 for -2 to attack rolls. Deflect and thrust will grant you an additional +2 for -2. Pick up some armor. You do not lose defense vs multiple attacks.

Now your attacks are painfully penalized. Fix this by feinting with a . Next round drop deflect and thrust, use moulinet, and shielded strike to deal your dex in auto damage and hit powerfully.

The sword dicing blender - aggressive fighter

Spoiler

This all out style uses a katana to cut things to pieces.

Needs
Kendo (sidebar for fencing) 0000
Heavy sword 0000
Iaido 00
Quick draw

You go first. You add your weaponry dots to initiative. Second you strike. If they still live use doubling cut to strike again. If they still live use Nidan Waza to strike again!

The heavy counter - balanced fighter

Spoiler

Heavy sword 000.
Strength as high as you can get it. 5 preferably.

Get a great sword (see the armory section on swords). Use half sword and swing it. Things die. You add 2 damage to all hits after your successes. When things swing at you use fools guard to block and deal damage back at them, adding two damage after your successes.

None of this will save you from a combat focused monster. The heavy sword and katana concept weather the best, as they can hope to deal massive damage quick enough to just drop foes. Anything with powers is likely going to overwhelm any defense you may muster. It needs to ether end up dead or you will.

This is both interesting an saddening. If I wanted a game where this stud was required for success, I'd play D&D for it.

Still, it is interesting to see these things in action. Isn't there also a merit in Reloaded that lets you use extra weapons with a combat style. I always figured grabbing that for Garou claws with weapon styles would be boss.

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

The last Obrimos archmage who Ascended is why we have an asteroid belt instead of a 5th inner planet.

Sounds legit.

Originally Posted by Eurus

I have mixed feelings on Vampire fragility. On the one hand, it sucks because seriously, Dracula getting potentially gibbed by a machete is kind of lame. On the other hand, Vampire culture kind of acknowledges the fact that they wouldn't do well in a full-on conflict with humanity, so being vulnerable is perhaps appropriate.

remember, one of the best plans to actually take on Dracula was "The Texan distracts him and I will kill him with my kukhri knife". Dracula was a glass cannon, a creature without the human intelligence to really utilize it. Dracula was a manhole predator.

[Scottzar]

Fouredged: you forgot the magical radiation spear.
Staff 3 / Heavy Sword 3 / Spear 4 was the optimal setup, AFAIK.
Lets you hit an area and ignore defence/armour stacking at the same time, which clears most of the ridiculous things you need to worry about.

[The Random NPC]

Originally Posted by Scottzar

Fouredged: you forgot the magical radiation spear.
Staff 3 / Heavy Sword 3 / Spear 4 was the optimal setup, AFAIK.
Lets you hit an area and ignore defence/armour stacking at the same time, which clears most of the ridiculous things you need to worry about.

I don't see how this combination ignores defense/armor. From what I can tell Staff 3 lets you hit everyone in 3 yards, Spear 4 lets you add your Strength or Weaponry when you All Out Attack, and Heavy Sword 3 lets you add 2 to the final damage total. So final total with an All Out Attack, (Weapon Rating + Strength + Weaponry + (Weaponry or Strength) - Defense - Other Factors) = Attack Pool for everyone in 3 yards. Damage = Successes from Attack Pool +2.

[Hullu_Iivana]

Originally Posted by The Random NPC

I don't see how this combination ignores defense/armor. From what I can tell Staff 3 lets you hit everyone in 3 yards, Spear 4 lets you add your Strength or Weaponry when you All Out Attack, and Heavy Sword 3 lets you add 2 to the final damage total. So final total with an All Out Attack, (Weapon Rating + Strength + Weaponry + (Weaponry or Strength) - Defense - Other Factors) = Attack Pool for everyone in 3 yards. Damage = Successes from Attack Pool +2.

Some people seem to think that penalty that is applied to attack when using Staff 3 is the ONLY penalty that's used. Which ignores the fact that the system doesn't work that way; the penalty is additional one, not replacing one. Saying that Staff 3 ignores Defence and Armor isn't exploiting some loophole, it's just cheating.