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Old 07-19-2012, 07:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Tavar
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Default General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Placeholder title, but I figure it's appropriate enough. Post other suggestions and I can change it.


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List of Previous Threads:
General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.
General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
General Exalted Discussion III: Weddings Are An Act of Villainy
General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants
General Exalted Discussion VI: Ascendancy Mantle of the Playground
General Exalted Discussion VII: Playground Eternal Essence
General Exalted Discussion VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
General Exalted Discussion Thread X: Playground Cosmic Principle

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Last edited by Tavar : 07-20-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Tavar
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread X1: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

I think this little peace by John Morke, one of the current developers, is illistrative of the whole Holy issue.

One key thing to remember is that the Underworld is actively damaging to Creation to at least some degree, which is why it and anything associated with it gets pinged by Holy.

Yozi are all enemies of Creation, which is why they are there, and Demons are in a way part of the Yozi, so they are listed there as well(much like your spleen or blood cells are tagged with holy if you are named a Creature of Darkness).

Finally, the best idea I've heard for shaped Fair Folk is that they act as a sort of protective barrier against the real threat, which is unshaped. A shaped Fair Folk can interact with Creation without causing harm, and can even become supporters of Creation. Additionally, they ward off Unshaped do to questing and the like.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread X1: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
He's as likely to be an monster as he is to be a saint, whichever works better in stopping things from messing with the natural order of Creation (note; Creation specifically, not the people living on it).

Superman exercises restraint because that's the way he was raised and because he cares about humans. The UC was created to be the boss of everything except the Primordials, and he eventually overthrew them because he wanted to steal their cosmic pool table, an action that cost billions of mortals & gods their lives. I see him as a lot less reliable than Superman in terms of not using his supreme powers in the most efficient way.



But their point of view is irrelevant, because it's the UC's personal "People I Hate Because They Suck" list that determines whether something is a Creature of Darkness, and if every wimpy-ass ghost is a CoD, then so should be every Fae.
Luna is in charge of keeping the Wyld manageable. Nobody is in charge of keeping the Underworld manageable.
Additionally, Creation needs the Wyld's energy - the Daystar included. It's possible that the UCS doesn't declare everything from the Wyld a Creature of Darkness because he admits that the Wyld's energy is useful, perhaps even needed.

Alternatively, the Daystar, having been built partly from the designs of Autochthon and other primordials, may have natural Axiomatic powers as well as Holy powers.

The Balorian crusade happened after Sol had officially turned away from Creation for more time with the Games of Divinity and the whole Solars-going-Mad thing.
It may also be that the natural expression of Sol's opposition to the Wyld is not via Holy charms but via Wyld-Shaping (Although mortals can do minor Wyld-Shaping via quests, so it's also arguable that it's simply a natural part of the Solar charmset's "Mortal efforts done perfectly.")

There ARE reasons for Sol to not declare shaped raksha inherently Creatures of Darkness - though not as many as some would want for him to let them be.


As for every ghost being a CoD: Every single ghost is a slight pull towards Oblivion. The Wyld is nothing compared to Oblivion. It is in Creation's best interests for the Raksha to be driven out; it is in Creation's best interests for ghosts to never, ever be.

(Oh, and a final note... It sure wasn't the Raksha who stole and horribly tortured Solar exaltations...)


I also agree with Tavar that Shaped Raksha form a useful buffer between Creation and Unshaped - again, leading to it being in Creation's best interests for there to be Shaped lingering out beyond the edges of Creation, but not necessarily for them to be absolutely obliterated. They hold and defend the power sources closer to Creation which would otherwise give the Unshaped a way in.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread X1: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
Finally, the best idea I've heard for shaped Fair Folk is that they act as a sort of protective barrier against the real threat, which is unshaped. A shaped Fair Folk can interact with Creation without causing harm, and can even become supporters of Creation. Additionally, they ward off Unshaped do to questing and the like.
I don't know much about Fair Folk, but aren't Raksha a specific type that are worse than just basic Shaped? Or are they just more powerful or something?

Also, you should really replace that 1 with an I.

And Aetherial, it wasn't the ghosts that took the exaltations. It was the Neverborn, and possibly the Deathlords. As for Oblivion being worse than the Wyld, "protect Creation" doesn't care what ends are semi-decent and what ends are utterly terrible.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:32 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Gah, can't believe that I did that. Fixed now.

Raksha is just a term for the Shaped.

It actually was the Deathlords: the neverborn can't really to much actively. And the Deathlords are ghosts.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread X1: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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And Aetherial, it wasn't the ghosts that took the exaltations. It was the Neverborn, and possibly the Deathlords. As for Oblivion being worse than the Wyld, "protect Creation" doesn't care what ends are semi-decent and what ends are utterly terrible.
More important than the specific person is that his Solars, his favored children, were taken and made to suffer with the power of the Underworld - the same power every Ghost draws on to exist, which makes Creation a little bit lesser for every day of every ghost's existence.

The Raksha are hardly considered neutrally; just as the Unconquered Sun can smite those who ask for his favor without possessing virtue, Raksha that dare to actually enter Creation are subject to the threat of death (and indeed, if I recall correctly start to burn away by losing motes) whenever sunlight touches them.
They just don't need to be obliterated wholesale.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Raksha is what Fair Folk call themselves.

Also, quoting a post from the last thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
I see him as a lot less reliable than Superman in terms of not using his supreme powers in the most efficient way.
Superman already doesn't use his supreme powers in the most efficient way - and I'm not talking about killing people or not killing people; I just mean that more than a few of Supes' fights seem to have only resolved the way they did because he forgot he had a superpower.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

I just re-read about Prince Laashe...
The Unconquered Sun considers shaped Raksha to be people enough that his Compassion applies to them - It does not override his Motivation, nor his Intimacies, but his Compassion applies to them.

Ghosts can pass into Lethe and be reborn, or choose to become one of the Righteous Dead; their enduring only makes it more likely that they will fall to Oblivion... whereas, if I recall correctly, at least some Holy charms - and certainly a Zenith's Holy anima - guarantee a passage to Lethe.



Now then...

Modern Exaltedstuck.
How terrifying is the idea that people are consulting with Doc Scratch for society-shaping technological help at all?
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

So, is anyone else sad that Autoklave isn't a template like beam weapons?

Though admittedly it seems easy to "reverse engineer." +1 artifact dot, +2 damage, and the special powers of the autoklave. I'd double check I hadn't missed anything first, but...
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:14 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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So, is anyone else sad that Autoklave isn't a template like beam weapons?

Though admittedly it seems easy to "reverse engineer." +1 artifact dot, +2 damage, and the special powers of the autoklave. I'd double check I hadn't missed anything first, but...
The real question is: Can you apply the Beam template to an Autoklave?
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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The real question is: Can you apply the Beam template to an Autoklave?
No. With one exception.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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No. With one exception.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

I want my autoklave axe!
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What Yuki said.

Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*

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Old 07-20-2012, 12:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Can't see image.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:19 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

It's Darth Vader duel-wielding laser chainsaws.
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What Yuki said.

Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*

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Old 07-20-2012, 02:10 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Tavar, you forgot to add the link to thread 10 to the first post.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

I prefer Vader cosplaying as the Viator of Nullspace. Or a Soulsteel Caste, take your pick.

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Old 07-20-2012, 06:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Repeat of a question from the previous thread:

I can picture what Compassion, Conviction & Valour exaltations would look like. But what would be an example of a high Temperance exaltation?
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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Repeat of a question from the previous thread:

I can picture what Compassion, Conviction & Valour exaltations would look like. But what would be an example of a high Temperance exaltation?
Probably remaining steadfast in the face of incredible temptation. Alternately, stuff like defeating your own hate and deciding to let a blood feud of years go would be valid by my count.

Temperance is, among other things, the virtue of self-control, after all.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:09 AM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

An Exaltation of overwhelming Temperance would likely involve denying the quick and easy way, and instead going off to meditate for a decade before Exalting. Or something.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:18 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Does anyone here have Scroll of Kings? And, if so, what are Threat levels?
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Alright, after reading Burn Legend, I really want to play. As a Mugen, Ryuujin, or even mortal (the oppourtnity to have two martial arts styles at chargen is tempting). Any chance I could get into your game, Turalisj?
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Quote:
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An Exaltation of overwhelming Temperance would likely involve denying the quick and easy way, and instead going off to meditate for a decade before Exalting. Or something.
Temperance is also the pursuit of unbiased justice. Perhaps you could Exalt as a Solar by having the sheer willpower to willingly damn your noble family all to the guillotine, though it breaks your heart, because they're all absolutely guilty of the crimes accused of them. You could simply pardon them, but you don't, because that is not justice. You could be the errant cog that breaks the cycle of corruption in your nation of origin.

Also, alternative title for the thread, "Good Job Breaking It, Hero"?

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Old 07-20-2012, 03:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

As for Po souls/Hun souls pre Primordial War, Po souls were disintegrated and re-absorbed by Creation. Hun were reincarnated.

Turalisj
, like other before me spoke accurately on ghost-Raksha comparison for being dangerous to Creation.

Shaped Raksha, as they were Named by scholars, Fair Folk is a polite moniker from terrified mortals. Saying so, Shaped Raksha aren't CoD's because they can be harmless to Creation, among other choices they have. Every soul that becomes Ghost instead of reincarnating is dragging Creation closer to becoming massive Shadowland. Ghosts are source of tools for the Neverborn who can't lift a finger without help, to be honest. Level of activity displayed by them is fault of some greedy fools who broke some tomb-bodies.

Wyld is necessary for Creation's survival, since both Daystar and Elemental Poles have to to take their fuel from somewhere. Without Wyld Elemental Poles would gutter out and die. Daystar would start eating Creation or "starve".

Underworld only takes from Creation, by it ghosts or land (Shadowlands) or essence it needs to maintain itself in the current shape.

Wyld doesn't need Creation, Creation doesn't need Underworld. Simple.



Also, about Prince Lashee and UCS ... it wasn't compassion towards Raksha playing tormented victims of Lashee, but anger at Lashee for outwitting him that made UCS break his promise and play to Lashee's tune.

Saying so, since Lashee clearly defeated UCS ... shouldn't he lose his Unconquered title ? Being saved by Luna doesn't count I think.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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Saying so, since Lashee clearly defeated UCS ... shouldn't he lose his Unconquered title ? Being saved by Luna doesn't count I think.
The way I see it, Laashe didn't "clearly defeat" the Unconquered Sun; the Unconquered Sun just didn't finish the fight. He very well could have, and in doing so might have reduced a good portion of Creation into a smoking crater.

To put it another way, let's say I see a big bug on the floor. It's crawling on top of my housekeys. I *could* step on the bug and kill it, but that'd get nasty bug stuff all over my housekeys. Does the bug "win" when instead I sit back, and the housecat comes over and deals with the bug? Hardly.

On that note, since we're on the subject of Fair Folk, where best would I put a repository of Fair Folk NPCs I've built if I wanted you forum folks to be able to see them? So far they're fairly rules-legit, so such a thread wouldn't likely need to go in Homebrew...
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:57 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Let's agree to disagree.

UCS was laying down defeated by his own doubts, Lashee had his spear and was ready to put him in Jade Prison ... but sure, UCS was going to "win". And I believe that Lashee had him in psychological warfare fully defeated. First he made UCS broke his promise, second he made UCS unable to strike him out of concern for the souls of mortals Lashee devoured. For Incarna level fight it looks like total win in my book.

Probably I would shamelessly ask You to give me link to these NPCs.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

The Sun was not Conquered. Rather, the Sun refused to battle.
This lessened his powers such that he might have been conquered...
...But Luna's powers don't work that way.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

Actually, it doesn't MATTER how the fight went. Sol is still Unconquered... because it never happened. Luna didn't kill Laashe, nor did she imprison him. She removed the possibility of him existing from Creation. Not only did the fight never happen, not only did Laashe never exist, the very concept of him is no longer possible.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:11 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
aetherialDawn
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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Originally Posted by Dragnar View Post
Actually, it doesn't MATTER how the fight went. Sol is still Unconquered... because it never happened. Luna didn't kill Laashe, nor did she imprison him. She removed the possibility of him existing from Creation. Not only did the fight never happen, not only did Laashe never exist, the very concept of him is no longer possible.
You mean, was never possible now.
He was so unique that Luna was able to pull him into the Beyond.
Also: Luna can pull things into the Beyond.
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I think we can pack it up and move to a different thread. aetherialDawn has won this one.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:40 AM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Sydonai
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Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

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Originally Posted by aetherialDawn View Post
You mean, was never possible now.
Luna can pull things into the Beyond.
No, the reverse-blade scythe of Zatesh can pull things into the beyond.
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