General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

[aetherialDawn]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

Thing is, I don't think I'd want to have to take a Knack for that.

And the knack doesn't ACTUALLY do 'that'
It does 'that' for under a day

where 'that' is 'taking someone's form by wounding them instead of killing them'

[Rockphed]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Oh, don't get me wrong, I want shapeshifting.

But I want different shapeshifting. It cheapens it when you get to the point where the most efficient use of your essence in a combat where you won't absolutely curbstomp the enemy is to use your warform EVERY SINGLE TIME. I want less than that. I want to fight like Wolverine or Conan, not a guy who ate a zoan-class Devil Fruit (although the big guy on Chopper's home island was cool).

What would you need in order to properly fight like Wolverine or Conan, in your opinion? I agree that, based on what I have heard about lunars, both should be viable lunar concepts, but have no clue what parts of them you think essential.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Originally Posted by Rockphed

What would you need in order to properly fight like Wolverine or Conan, in your opinion? I agree that, based on what I have heard about lunars, both should be viable lunar concepts, but have no clue what parts of them you think essential.

Wolverine is basically warform lite, plus some Gift charms and Sense charms.

Conan ... to emulate him I would advise Alchie Augmentations, Lunar equivalent Excellencies are trash or doesn't even compare. I always laugh hard when I read the fluff about Alchies being roughly equal to Lunars. Maybe in combat, otherwise Alchies win everywhere hands down. Up to including more thought out shape-shifting that seem to be equally good if not better.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Wolverine is basically warform lite, plus some Gift charms and Sense charms.

Conan ... to emulate him I would advise Alchie Augmentations, Lunar equivalent Excellencies are trash or doesn't even compare. I always laugh hard when I read the fluff about Alchies being roughly equal to Lunars. Maybe in combat, otherwise Alchies win everywhere hands down. Up to including more thought out shape-shifting that seem to be equally good if not better.

Congratulations: you just hit on why Lunars need fixing.

[industrious]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Wolverine is basically warform lite, plus some Gift charms and Sense charms.

Conan ... to emulate him I would advise Alchie Augmentations, Lunar equivalent Excellencies are trash or doesn't even compare. I always laugh hard when I read the fluff about Alchies being roughly equal to Lunars. Maybe in combat, otherwise Alchies win everywhere hands down. Up to including more thought out shape-shifting that seem to be equally good if not better.

I would have gone with Relentless Lunar Fury for Wolverine.

[Teln]

Originally Posted by aetherialDawn

And the knack doesn't ACTUALLY do 'that'
It does 'that' for under a day

where 'that' is 'taking someone's form by wounding them instead of killing them'

No, there's a Knack in DotFA that gives you the desired form permanently through a completely different kind of 'that'. I'm not going to go into details, because that would get me into trouble with the mods.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Teln

No, there's a Knack in DotFA that gives you the desired form permanently through a completely different kind of 'that'. I'm not going to go into details, because that would get me into trouble with the mods.

Compassionate Mirror Nature (beat them without killing them) & Courtesan’s Possession (through sex). Though that's still two Knacks we've had to sink XP into (the latter not available at chargen due to Ess. 4 pre-requisite) to not have to kill stuff in order to use the character's main ability.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Congratulations: you just hit on why Lunars need fixing.

Meh, I simply made Lunar and then Alchie character recently. These were obvious things that hit my eyes.
Lunars "permanent" stat booster is expensive and requires E5, plus pre-requesities. Alchemical equivalent is stackable up to a point and with similar investment of XP You get much more points. The less strict prerequisites are also hitting the "WTF, designers" button.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Compassionate Mirror Nature (beat them without killing them) & Courtesan’s Possession (through sex).

While the prospect of elbow-dropping onto a lion and bellowing, "STOLE YA SHAPE, MUTHA****AH!" is amusing, it's really not that helpful; ultimately, you're still having to hunt the animal and fight it, but now you're just beating the crap out of it instead of killing it.

And truth be told, in much of the wild, "injured" can pretty much equate to "dead" anyway, but now it's gonna be more slow and painful.

(Noooooot even going to get into Courtesan's Possession...)

[Qwertystop]

Kobold-Bard, you got a link to the source for the quote in your sig? It's awesome, but I want context.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Kobold-Bard, you got a link to the source for the quote in your sig? It's awesome, but I want context.

Thread on the Exalted forum: "This is just a list of random facts that I've discovered, been able to infer or deduce based on evidence over the years."

[Dragnar]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Meh, I simply made Lunar and then Alchie character recently. These were obvious things that hit my eyes.
Lunars "permanent" stat booster is expensive and requires E5, plus pre-requesities. Alchemical equivalent is stackable up to a point and with similar investment of XP You get much more points. The less strict prerequisites are also hitting the "WTF, designers" button.

While I don't have an actual quote, I believe Holden has said in the past that they weren't going to make Alchemicals stink just to be nice to Lunars. (Or in other words: The current dev team would have made Lunars as powerful as alchemicals are, but they weren't in charge then!)

[KnightDisciple]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

While the prospect of elbow-dropping onto a lion and bellowing, "STOLE YA SHAPE, MUTHA****AH!" is amusing,

It's a bloody hilarious mental image, is what it is.
Now imagine a Lucha mask on the Lunar who does that.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Wolverine is basically warform lite, plus some Gift charms and Sense charms.

Wolverine always has his claws and regeneration. I guess that sorta fits a guy who's always in warform, took Small, and didn't bother with any fur or anything?

Conan ... to emulate him I would advise Alchie Augmentations, Lunar equivalent Excellencies are trash or doesn't even compare. I always laugh hard when I read the fluff about Alchies being roughly equal to Lunars. Maybe in combat, otherwise Alchies win everywhere hands down. Up to including more thought out shape-shifting that seem to be equally good if not better.

Okay... I DEFINITELY gotta get the Alchemicals book. I was thinking of making it my one other 2e purchase anyway, seeing as there's a 99% chance of us having to wait for years for them in 3e.

The 1% chance:

Originally Posted by Holden

Time is a cruel and relentless monster.

That said, Alchies are my favorite guys, so. Let's wait and see!

[Kyeudo]

Considering that Alchemicals practically can stand alone as their own game and are hands down one of the best written splats in the entire line, I find it strange that you still don't have that book.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Kobold-Bard, you got a link to the source for the quote in your sig? It's awesome, but I want context.

He can also beat any Green Sun Prince or Third Circle Demon by 10 threshold successes in a "being Ligier's uke" contest, which I'm sure the Green Sun is very happy about.

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by Xefas

He can also beat any Green Sun Prince or Third Circle Demon by 10 threshold successes in a "being Ligier's uke" contest, which I'm sure the Green Sun is very happy about.

How does this work?

And what's an uke?

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

How does this work?

And what's an uke?

Quick search on urban dictionary tells that "uke" is a japanese term for the passive member of a homossexual relationship.

The statement in question works simply by the fact that the Sun always succeeds on any roled action with a threshold of 10 successess.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Jade Dragon, You apparently forgot that Wolverine also have permanent version of Bones of Andamant spell and is suspected of being Infernal Monster Stylist.

And Alchemicals are good purchase on their own, their charmset built with head on the shoulders, so to speak. At least as far as my crude comparing with how their and theoretically comparable charms of Lunars are made.

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

How does this work ?

Perfection Beyond Imagining charm used with mundane disguise check. There are also evidence pointing towards "Sol is always winning voting contests on being the greatest douche ever. Malfeas isn't amused by this slight to his grandness."

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

And what's an uke?

I do not want to know, and You might wish to not know as well. There are reasons why Jupiter is crying into her pillow every night You know ?

Originally Posted by Dragnar

While I don't have an actual quote, I believe Holden has said in the past that they weren't going to make Alchemicals stink just to be nice to Lunars. (Or in other words: The current dev team would have made Lunars as powerful as alchemicals are, but they weren't in charge then!)

Truth to be told my beef is mostly with skewed charm mechanics in general, and Lunar specific Excellencies are very good example of these glaring, in my opinion, wrongs within current charm design.

My personal opinion is such that mechanically, charms should be consistent and leveled against each other. No dancing folly like Solar charm design seeming to be from different game than other charm designs.

I wish to see charms benefits balanced against the charm's costs. Not where one type of charms give 150% benefit output while other type of charms, from comparable power level charm-wise, are topping at 30% benefit or are so vague, *cough* Raksha Charms *cough* that ST's fear them in the hands of creative players and people have to houserule everything just for the sake of calming the hysteria and being able to make picture of character's ability in their own imagination. That doesn't differ drastically from what ST would think upon seeing the charms and general build of the said character.

[Weimann]

Originally Posted by Draken

The statement in question works simply by the fact that the Sun always succeeds on any roled action with a threshold of 10 successess.

Not really always. When he is holding the Trumpet of Absolute Victory, his Convition-based fulcrum, he has access to Perfection Beyond Imagining, a universally applicable Second Excellency which can add 1 success/mote up to 10 successes. By not paying motes but instead spending 1 wp, he can use that Charm to automatically succeed on any action or win any competition with a threshold of 10 successes, or when comparing static traits, automatically have 10 more than the other guy. This last effect can also be activated whenever the acts in accordance with his Motivation.

So there are a few limits to the automatic win effect of Perfection Beyond Imagining. The Unconquered Sun must be currently holding the Trumpet of Absolute Victory and not be suppressing Conviction, or he must be acting in accordance with his Motivation. In any case, he must spend Willpower.

[Tavar]

Rikandur Azebol, doesn't quite work with the way the game is set up thematically.

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Weimann

Not really always. When he is holding the Trumpet of Absolute Victory, his Convition-based fulcrum, he has access to Perfection Beyond Imagining, a universally applicable Second Excellency which can add 1 success/mote up to 10 successes. By not paying motes but instead spending 1 wp, he can use that Charm to automatically succeed on any action or win any competition with a threshold of 10 successes, or when comparing static traits, automatically have 10 more than the other guy. This last effect can also be activated whenever the acts in accordance with his Motivation.

So there are a few limits to the automatic win effect of Perfection Beyond Imagining. The Unconquered Sun must be currently holding the Trumpet of Absolute Victory and not be suppressing Conviction, or he must be acting in accordance with his Motivation. In any case, he must spend Willpower.

... Yeah, if you are going to be specific about it, you can also specify that he loses access to the willpower function after supressing conviction. But it really isn't that much of a stretch to assume that the Sun will always have that fulcrum when he needs it and pointless to consider his capabilities when he is not bearing the fulcrum, since they are basically the same as those of everyone else.

Actually, strictly inferior to everyone else's because without the fulcrum he doesn't have an excellency and his abilities are not actually as high as one would expect. His attributes are very high, however. But not as high as they could be, in a number of cases.

[Bitter]

Okay, I'm looking to make a 5 dot Onslaught Crossbow and thinking about cool powers, kind of like the interesting thematics of the 5 dot artefacts in Oadenols codex only without the mechanical brokenness.

Looking for powers which resonate with Adamant, crystal, futurism, hope, faith, obfuscation, prophecy, fate or incredible intelligence.

Any ideas?

[Jade Dragon]

Um... you learn how strong an opponent is upon taking the Aim action while looking through the scope attached to it, as well as how much damage the average shot will deal to the opponent (in percentage terms)? Those sound like good intelligence functions.

[industrious]

It's a five-dot artifact. Feel free to put as much awesome stuff in it as possible.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by industrious

It's a five-dot artifact. Feel free to put as much awesome stuff in it as possible.

Nah, while what I said isn't enough, that's what Artifact N/A is for. But we still gotta get it in the range of Celestial Battle Armor (although that's on the higher end of 5, so better to undershoot than overshoot).

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Um... you learn how strong an opponent is upon taking the Aim action while looking through the scope attached to it, as well as how much damage the average shot will deal to the opponent (in percentage terms)? Those sound like good intelligence functions.

First part is good, not so keen on the second half simply because it will make the ST need to do number crunching to give an accurate answer, which can be especially hard to give if the opponent has several defensive charms that he could use in different combinations. It's along the right kind of lines though.

[horngeek]

...the worst bit about 3e coming out:

I've got a character concept I'd love to play in a 'A Land Once Divided Must Unite' style game.

I highly suspect I've got little chance of this before December. On the plus side, she's a Solar, so it's only December, and not 2015 or something like that.

[Lord Raziere]

Hey, anyone of good ways to use the Ebon Dragon's "Golden Years Tarnished Black" charm tree? I get the concept, but not how it is supposed to be applied.

I mean I know I'm supposed to mess with peoples memories, but…what are the actual applications here?

[industrious]

"...You love your wife, eh? Do you really? Do you really? What's she ever done that's good?"

"...Your king has ruled wisely and fairly? Tell me more."

"...Your fondest memories are when you were in the Wyld Hunt? Because killing innocents really was so heroic."

[Keep going for a while]

"...I'm sorry. But it seems like you haven't ever had a good time...ever. Your life, has been a complete and utter failure. If I were you...I'd do the brave thing. Tell life exactly what you think of it. Show it who's in charge."

[Next Morning]

"XYZ, a powerful Dragon-Blood/magistrate/king, went crazy yesterday, going on a killing spree starting with his wife and children, and ending with his own life."