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Which skill would you be looking at adding. We may be able to make a trade. Using a feat to add one skill to your class list seems to be a waste of a feat.
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Adding Perform to the Swashbuckler class list. It is just fluff, but I feel Halia should have it as one of Malcanthet's former "greater" succubi. Could kick Profession out of the class skill list to make room.
Current plan is Firesouled (without LA) Half-Fiend Human Favored Soul of Noticula 18, Crusader 20/Something 5, the something being I'm not quite sure.
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Im not sure I understand your build. On one side you have favoured soul 18, with nothing else...you should have 25 levels there. The other side is okay, 20+5=25. Do remember that a divine agent of Nocticula must be female.
In other news, what we are going for here is epic, but not rocket tag epic. Epic feats yes, but for the most part only the book version epic feats. Dont go looking for something super powerful.
Dont make a PC that gives me a headache when I try to think of ways to kill you. You should not come up with a PC that is immune to every form of energy except magic missiles and since you have 1000 HP, that would take a lot of magic missiles.
You should not come up with a character that can take 10 actions before the NPCs even know youre there, and can deal out 500 points per action.
You should not come up with a bizarre variety of spells that can outwit any sort of defense put up against you.
Epic spellcasting is right out. However, you can get 10th, 11th, etc. spell slots for purposes of metamagic.
Im not sure I understand your build. On one side you have favoured soul 18, with nothing else...you should have 25 levels there. The other side is okay, 20+5=25. Do remember that a divine agent of Nocticula must be female.
In other news, what we are going for here is epic, but not rocket tag epic. Epic feats yes, but for the most part only the book version epic feats. Dont go looking for something super powerful.
Dont make a PC that gives me a headache when I try to think of ways to kill you. You should not come up with a PC that is immune to every form of energy except magic missiles and since you have 1000 HP, that would take a lot of magic missiles.
You should not come up with a character that can take 10 actions before the NPCs even know youre there, and can deal out 500 points per action.
You should not come up with a bizarre variety of spells that can outwit any sort of defense put up against you.
Epic spellcasting is right out. However, you can get 10th, 11th, etc. spell slots for purposes of metamagic.
The other 7 points are from LA on the first side; 3 from Firesouled (Admittedly, most of it probably comes from Leadership, but I don't touch that with a wooden pole), and 4 from Half-Fiend.
I was going for a summon-and-buff array of spells, as a cult leader would do. And you don't have to worry about the optimization; I tend not to lean towards that. I hate Celerity anyways.
I'll take the second array, and for the 5 levels... I'll have to think about it.
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Here is Halia's sheet. I noticed that Succubus HD+LA equals 12, not 13, so extra rogue level. I spend some money and a few feat slots of fluffy bits, but I feel I have everything I need without adding to the rocket tag. Mind blank and true seeing are probably among the only things that make things more difficult for you, but the former as a slotless item (kind of an "inherent" effect, more or less) fits Halia, having overcome manipulative/spying magics, while the latter is pretty much there to keep pace with Ka'Rishta and the more powerful demons.
If some of the stats are too high, please tell me so I can adjust them accordingly. If the damage per strike is too high (especially with the potential of an extra full round action and criticals), we could say that either only half of Charisma applies to damage or no charisma at all.
I want to note that extra actions, even extra full actions (the latter once per round), sometimes even taken out of turn as immediate actions, is kind of the shtick of this new Swashbuckler. I don't intend to abuse the crap out of that, I got to see how powerful that ends up being in an actual game. Halia's attack modifiers also aren't that big (at least I hope; removing Weapon Focus/Melee Weapon Mastery could help if they are). She will likely tear balors limb from limb (and improved evasion their death throes), but more powerful demons will probably give her serious trouble and she'll end up using her extra full action to get more high accuracy attacks to keep pace with, say, a high-powered marilith and her six armed multiweapon attacks.
edit: Forgot to ask. From what I can reverse-engineer, the save DCs of a succubus' energy drain seem to be based on 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma. Do only racial HD count for this or would my total 25 HD apply?
As for the caster level of the demons' spell-like abilities, there doesn't seem to be a system behind them. Most demons have caster levels equal or slightly higher than their HD, while some of the lower HD demons (succubus, quasit) have double their HD in caster level (probably because they aren't intended as straight fighters, but rather manipulators/spies). Would a succubus' caster level increase with more HD (perhaps becoming equal their new HD)?
Here is Halia's sheet. I noticed that Succubus HD+LA equals 12, not 13, so extra rogue level. I spend some money and a few feat slots of fluffy bits, but I feel I have everything I need without adding to the rocket tag. Mind blank and true seeing are probably among the only things that make things more difficult for you, but the former as a slotless item (kind of an "inherent" effect, more or less) fits Halia, having overcome manipulative/spying magics, while the latter is pretty much there to keep pace with Ka'Rishta and the more powerful demons.
If some of the stats are too high, please tell me so I can adjust them accordingly. If the damage per strike is too high (especially with the potential of an extra full round action and criticals), we could say that either only half of Charisma applies to damage or no charisma at all.
The stats are fine. K'R will probably have even higher ones, at least in STR and CON.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridai
I want to note that extra actions, even extra full actions (the latter once per round), sometimes even taken out of turn as immediate actions, is kind of the shtick of this new Swashbuckler. I don't intend to abuse the crap out of that, I got to see how powerful that ends up being in an actual game. Halia's attack modifiers also aren't that big (at least I hope; removing Weapon Focus/Melee Weapon Mastery could help if they are). She will likely tear balors limb from limb (and improved evasion their death throes), but more powerful demons will probably give her serious trouble and she'll end up using her extra full action to get more high accuracy attacks to keep pace with, say, a high-powered marilith and her six armed multiweapon attacks.
Im not worried about extra attacks. What I am worried about is people that seem to be able to do a dozen different things before the enemy can even have a chance to know the party is even there and be completely obliterated. Also, given my experience in Three Goddesses, I think I will be using several lesser power big opponents as oppposed to one super powered enemy who can be swarmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridai
edit: Forgot to ask. From what I can reverse-engineer, the save DCs of a succubus' energy drain seem to be based on 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma. Do only racial HD count for this or would my total 25 HD apply?
As for the caster level of the demons' spell-like abilities, there doesn't seem to be a system behind them. Most demons have caster levels equal or slightly higher than their HD, while some of the lower HD demons (succubus, quasit) have double their HD in caster level (probably because they aren't intended as straight fighters, but rather manipulators/spies). Would a succubus' caster level increase with more HD (perhaps becoming equal their new HD)?
Spell like abilities are based on (in my system), 10+Stat Bonus+Spell Level of the ability. So a Charm Monster would be 10+CHA+4, since Charm Monster is a 4th level spell. I didnt look carefully at your sheet, did you take the monster feat, Ability Focus, which increases the DC...and also the Veil of Alllure which helps even more.
For your energy drain, your 25HD apply.
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Thanks for the clarification about the energy drain. For the SLAs, I was asking about the caster level and if it scales with HD, not the DCs (though as far as I know the formula you gave is also how things are handled in standard 3.5).
In terms of the doing lots of stuff, I built Halia to have little to no options beyond her SLAs and attacking, so there is no buffing or tripping or feinting or disabling enemies beyond death through low HP, just up to two full attacks per round, more if she uses her belt of battle for the day or accepts being fatigued until she was able to rest for 8 hours (or exhausted until she can rest for 1 hour if already fatigued). Other than that, she can get next to enemies very fast (with teleport if needed) and position herself easily, but she can only get sneak attack damage through her blurstrike weapons (limited to 10 rounds per day, only first attack of that turn with the weapon, gets shut down by true seeing), flanking or somehow catching someone unaware (stealth).
So yeah, can easily get to enemies before and between her attacks, but she can only deal straight damage (maybe charm someone, but that will be difficult mid-battle, or become ethereal, which can be counteracted by ghost touch weapons), so what she can do in combat will be very predictable and somewhat easy to plan for. Unless you place 10 switches causing certain doom to the enemies around the area, in that case you can watch Halia throwing a lot of them in the course of 1 round, as that specifically caters to her high mobility and big amount of actions per round. She's essentially a female, demonic, sexier version of The Flash.
Also, agreed on multiple enemies. Multiples are always more dangerous and harder to take down than one big block of HP and any status effects we can inflict on one enemy will have to be inflicted on everyone else too if we, say, want to shut them down via stunning (however we plan on stunning anyone, that is, if we can even do that). Also, they simply deal more damage overall and you don't need to dump everything onto one PC, either, and they in turn also get more actions as the whole of the enemy forces etc etc etc.
Just to let you know Thump, we are going with PF feat progression.
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Those that bite the hand that feeds them quite often lick the boots that kick them.
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Apart from a few cosmetic changes that might be needed, Ka'Rishta has been rebuilt for this campaign. Just to let you both know where things are at.
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Those that bite the hand that feeds them quite often lick the boots that kick them.
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Halia will also be much more grumpy far less playful than she was intended for Lords of Darkness as she was essentially discarded by Malcanthet and is pretty disillusioned about the whole dealings of the Abyss and serving anyone after decades of Malcanthet's special brand of torture.
To begin with, Malcanthet is currently the queen of the succubi. There are several succubus "princesses" that long to overthrow her title, but none have been able to do so. Nocticula is the very least of those, in fact, most people who watch Abyss politics dont even give her long odds to do so. She doesnt look like a major player.
Halia
Spoiler
Basically, Halia was a long time loyal aide to Malcanthet, however in one of her inscrutible power plays, she sold Halia to another demon lord to serve as a spy and if things went sour, a plaything to placate her spying attempt. Halia didnt care for the result and escaped to the Prime, but Malcanthet eventually tracked her down and imprisoned her. She was tortured for quite some time, but Mal eventually forgot about her, but ended up leaving her imprisoned, and the guards took over the "treatment". At this point, Nocticula managed to charm her way past the guards and freed Halia, in return for her aid in overthrowing Malcanthet. Halia is probably doubtful about her ability to do so, Mal has been in power for much longer than she has even been in existance, but she longs for revenge and her friend Ka'Rishta is in on it, so, what the abyss, give it a shot. But for now, she is still a member of Malcanthet's court, and she isnt even sure if Malcanthet even remembers who she is. Which is probably another shot to the ego.
Ka'Rishta
Spoiler
Ka'Rishta's career went as outlined in the lead up to the Lords game, right up to the point where she was going to be sent to Beradax's plane. Ret-con. She stayed in service to Malcanthet, but eventually the queen tired of her as a bodyguard/lover, and she was cast aside. At that point, several lower ranking succubi took advantage of K'R's inability to resist the beguilments of a succubus and used her as a bodyguard, but they used her instead of partnering with her...just like all the other demon lords she had served before had; and whenever she took her grievances to Malcanthet's court, she would recieve the "talk to the hand" verdict. Seeing this, Nocticula snuck into the court, and managed to seduce K'R, and convinced her to join her cause in overthrowing Mal. She also provided valuable aid that allowed Nocticula to get to Halia and free her, and was instrumental in Nocticula being able to convince Halia to join. She, like Halia, is still a member of the Malcanthet court, but is regarded as weak-willed and a complainer, although a useful tool in battle.
Thump, as yet unnamed PC
Spoiler
Your PC was the leader of a smallish Malcanthet court on the prime, however despite your numerous accomplishments and successes, you never seemed to gain the recognition and respect you craved, the other priestesses continued to regard you as an "outsider", as only a 'favoured soul' instead of a full priestess.
Then on a mission, your entire party was scattered by a teleport trap, and you found yourself in some sort of chamber that was clearly built as a summoning chamber, complete with pentagram and everything. What was even more interesting, the book of incantations was handily available, and open to a demoness you had never heard of, Nocticula. It even detailed all the rituals and spells needed to bind her. You attempted the summoning, after all, this demoness could probably get you out of the situation you were in, and since she was so minor, she might even be a useful permanently binded ally. Of course, the problem was, as you later discovered, was that there was one teensy tiny little incantation left out of the procedure, and rather than having a demon lord in thrall to you, she managed to seduce you to her cause. Of course, that wasnt as hard as it sounded, you were already rather bitter towards Malcanthet, and Nocticula made it really pleasurable to throw in your lot with her. You are currently in the Abyss, in Malcanthets court, ostensibly for training to show you how a favoured soul really doesnt compare with a "real" priestess, however like Halia and K'R, whom you have met, you are still believed to be loyal to Malcanthet.
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As a rough estimate, how powerful is Nocticula compared to the characters? I know Halia is standing above succubi and lilitu by several orders of magnitude (and she laughs at the statted CR 21 version of Malcanthet from Fiendish Codex I in all regards), she laughs at divinations as well as enchantments, and eats balors for breakfast in combat, whereas Malcanthet is apparently on the level of a goddess, but where does that leave the "least" succubus princess (are they some sort of demigoddesses too)?
Also bumping my question whether the caster level (not DC) of the succubus SLAs scales with HD.
FYI, I found a serious mistake with the values of Halia's items (specifically her weapons), which suddenly left me with a lot of money to spend. Commencing shopping spree.
The statted version of all the lords of the Abyss suck in the book, dont even bother to think of them being that weak. I will have a general idea of stats, but I dont forsee a head to head battle between you and Malcanthet any time soon. I'm not big on PCs killing deities, although it may happen in this game.
Noticula is more powerful than the PCs, at least in some regards, she probably cant compare in a stand up battle to K'R, but she has so many other powers to use if it ever came to that. She could probably charm K'R, she could out battle Halia and she could simply stop granting spells to Thump, thats the real power of a goddess, the ability to do a number of things well and the ability to get away from fights they cant win.
SLA's do not, as far as I can see, scale with HD, they are based on the formula of 10+casting stat+spell level, just like a spell from a normal caster. Of course, the higher level you are, the better chance you have of having a better than normal casting stat.
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What you are referencing is, again, the DC of the SLAs, not the caster level (which is set at 12 for normal succubi).
Update done, added Heavy Fortification to Halia's clothes and a slotless +30 Sense Motive to waste the rest of the money (instead of, say, add Enervating or Stunning Surge to both kukris).
I'll step in here to help Debbie out with crunch, and yes, caster level scales with HD.
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Thanks. Should help with getting through spell resistance if needed.
Still trying to get a bead on the characters' place on Malcanthet's court and how common epic characters are. I think I recall there being just a few dozen or so epic characters in Daystor, but apparently Halia and K'R are relatively one among many in Malcanthet's court (enough so that nobody cares that Halia is free again)? I'm not asking for the purpose of going on a killing spree, just to get a sense of whether, say, non-deity superiors are comparable to the characters or if K'R and Halia will be entirely out of their depth.
Non-deity superiors will be mostly comparable to the PCs, some will be more and some will be less. Remember that all non-deity superiors will be loyal (well, as much as the term loyal applies to a demon ) to Malcanthet, at least at the start. Also, I am still talking with Mikela about whether this event took place pre or post Gods War, which will affect the number of epic NPCs wandering about. (and who they are)
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Okay, since my current build is leading to problems, I'm considering moving to a sorcerer/bard build as a succubus. Now, that might lead to extreme overlap in terms of spells. I know direct damage is preferred, so right now, I'm considering this:
Sorcerer 8/Abjurant Champion 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Fatespinner 4/Sorcerer +1
Succubus 12/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Bard x/Sublime Chord x
Main spells:
Heavily metamagic ray spells (enervation for negative levels, disintegrate for damage) with Split Ray/Maximize Spell/Twin Spell, helped by Residual Magic in the rounds afterwards
(Maximized) Maw of Chaos (area damage + dazed)
Prismatic x (save or lose) / other save-or-lose spells
Bard/Sublime Chord is mostly there for miscellaneous spells not covered by sorcerer.
After checking through some of those metamagic feats, I dont see anything too unbalancing there. Since the Split Ray divides damage, its not too bad, the Twin Spell is a bit dodgy, but hey, everyone has to have at least one nasty trick in their repetoire. Repeat Spell would be good in terms of mechanics, Versatile Performer better in terms of fluff. As mentioned there are no epic spells, but those feats give metamagic slots.
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Split Ray doesn't half damage. Effectively, a ray spell becomes two complete ray spells. Practically, it's twin spell for ray spells.
Now is the moment when I'd like to request numbers I should aim at per casting in terms of damage. As is, I can reach almost 1000 damage (if all rays hit) with a split ray, twin spell, maximized disintegrate against one target, up to 16 negative levels (if all hit) with no save from enervation with the same metamagic and ~150+ damage on an area with a maximized Maw of Chaos.
You can split spells that specify a single target and make a ranged touch attack. Only spells that deal damage can be affected by this feat. The split ray affect any two targets that are both within the spell's range and within 30 feet of each other. Each target takes half as much damage as normally indicated (round down). If desired, you can have both rays attack the same target. A split ray uses up a spell slot of the spell's normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats.
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) to Malcanthet, at least at the start. Also, I am still talking with Mikela about whether this event took place pre or post Gods War, which will affect the number of epic NPCs wandering about. (and who they are)
