Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by BRC

Well, IIRC, all the medical wing Gavs are dead, except for three of them who just got Zombied.

The rest of the Gavs on the other side of the base are now Pseudowalskis. Those are going to be the threat.

And the three in quarantine in Medical are probably going to get burnt by the Toughs before they can finish converting over into full soldier mode anyway.. so yeah. It's going to be the entire rest of the base that is the problem, especially since they took Tagii offline and Ennesby doesn't know how to run the ship. Or, in other words: combat with a fully-infiltrated enemy force that knows the area better than you do and no air/artillery support. Have fun!

[Landis963]

Originally Posted by tyckspoon

And the three in quarantine in Medical are probably going to get burnt by the Toughs before they can finish converting over into full soldier mode anyway.. so yeah. It's going to be the entire rest of the base that is the problem, especially since they took Tagii offline and Ennesby doesn't know how to run the ship. Or, in other words: combat with a fully-infiltrated enemy force that knows the area better than you do and no air/artillery support. Have fun!

This is why I'm hoping they're just zombies.

[douglas]

We don't know how much of the base was actually affected, though. The Toughs have been taking out the means of transmitting the activation signal, so an unknown portion of the base may have been out of reach and unaffected.

[tonberrian]

Oh, looks like things are going swell now!

[factotum]

I don't think the real problem here is the Gavmogres. The problem is that whatever transmission sequence the guys at Station IMO are sending into Oisri is still running, and given the revelation that this thing is a planet-sized prison, that doesn't bode well!

[TaRix]

Given that Osiri's got some impressive gravitics, might this be a Pa'anuri artifact? A Pa'anuri prison (either one made by baryonic folks or otherwise)?

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by TaRix

Given that Osiri's got some impressive gravitics, might this be a Pa'anuri artifact? A Pa'anuri prison (either one made by baryonic folks or otherwise)?

And that would explain the kitten videos how? Clearly at least a part of the artifacts function is archival. I suspect it's less a "prison" then a bunker or redoubt.

Consider: if you had a civilization with the technological capacity to build something on that scale and wanted to preserve it in the middle of a war such as we know the Pa'anuri once waged with the progenitors of the FSG where stars were regular turned into supernovae, how would you go about doing it?

Maybe an artifact with impressive gravitic shielding, inscribed with the memories of your entire population, and a power plant capable of resurrecting them once the shooting was over? Which is not to say you'd make it easy or inviting for anyone knocking on the door without the right keys to get into.

Could be not only that the Gavs and the UNS have bitten off more then they can masticate, could be Petey has either new competition in the would-be-god category, or a new ally against Andromeda. Or both.

[factotum]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

And that would explain the kitten videos how? Clearly at least a part of the artifacts function is archival. I suspect it's less a "prison" then a bunker or redoubt.

Based on what? The only in-comic evidence we have is that the Gavs believe it's a prison, and they probably know more about it than we do.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by factotum

Based on what? The only in-comic evidence we have is that the Gavs believe it's a prison, and they probably know more about it than we do.

Since you thoughtfully included a smiley, I don't know if that was intended as a serious remark or not, but I'll give you a serious reply.

It's certainly no less reasonable then "a prison built by/for the Pa'auri" for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that jumping to the conclusion that "Oh, the Pa'anuri are the BBEG's of the comic, so they must be involved" is applying meta-thinking refer then in-comic knowledge. Reminds me of the tendency a few years back to assume that every story arc had to involve the Partnership Collective because "they're the BBEG's."

But wait, as they say on TV, there's MORE!

First of all, the suspicion of [one] Gav that it's "more like" a prison cell is not the only thing we know in comic. We also know that the artifact is absurdly old, having been wandering through the galaxy unguarded and unmonitored for longer then any existing civilation has records. That does not say "prison" to me. Even the zoojacks ("What's the difference between a zoo an a prison?") were watched and sheparded by DaMEs. Oisri? No. SO either the Pa'anuri aren't actively trying to keep anyone in, aren't trying to break anyone out, or just don't care. I vote for the last.

Secondly, the Absurdly expensive artifact bespeaks a level of technology unknown among any of the current galactic civilizations, including the FSG, who did know about the Zoojack System (they told Breya). Less consistant with "prison module" then "some place to hide out."

Third, as pointed out, there's all that data in/on the surface. Again, that would seem to serve no purpose in a prison it's too much, and too heavily encoded, to just be a "Danger Do Not Open" placard. It's got to be there to preserve... something.

Fourth, despite the gravitic mask effects we still know the effective mass and therefore requisite density of the artifact. It's compressed Way to much to be a habitat, even for non-baryonic matter. Highly enough in fact that the UNS at least who also may be presumed to know something about such believes the artifact to be an enormous annie plant.

Finally, (and I freely admit this is "meta-thinking") this entire story arc has concerned thematic aspects of memory recording, re-writing, and resurrection from same, (ie, Schlock), with the firm assurance from the author that those seemingly unrelated events will be tied together by the time it ends. It's a lot less obvious a jump then TaRix's but then His Malevolance his a known penchant for dropping "obvious" clues that are Herrings even Redder then Emm's hacks.

I'll admit the twees here are is spasming madly but at least I have reasons.

[factotum]

I never said I believed it was a *Pa'anuri* prison, merely that the only evidence we have is that the Gavs think it is a prison--they, and we, don't know who or what is imprisoned there. Given Oisri's size, whatever is imprisoned within is extremely dangerous, regardless of what it is, though.

Oh, and why would the ancients who built the thing still be around to guard it? It's been wandering for a long, long time and they quite probably either all died out or got bored of the constant watch for nothing happening and left.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by factotum

the Gavs think it is a prison--they, and we, don't know who or what is imprisoned there.

And the Gavs have shown such excellent judgement in this arc. Still doesn't answer Jacksmouth's question. But here's another question:

What's the difference between being locked in a prison cell, and locked in cryogenic storage?

Don't know? Me either. Maybe we should ask a Gav.

Oh, and why would the ancients who built the thing still be around to guard it? It's been wandering for a long, long time and they quite probably either all died out or got bored of the constant watch for nothing happening and left.

The best (and cheapest) prison for something too extremely dangerous to let out, ever, is the event horizon of the nearest black hole.

[HandofShadows]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

The best (and cheapest) prison for something too extremely dangerous to let out, ever, is the event horizon of the nearest black hole.

That is, unless a Black Hole won't keep it imprisoned.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows

That is, unless a Black Hole won't keep it imprisoned.

Even if it is capable of moving upstream in that much gravity, you only have to apply interdiction for the fraction of a second before it hits the singularity.

Here's something completely different:
What if it is less a prison and more of a vaccuum cleaner, slowly sweeping up dark matter to make the galaxy less habitable to DaMEs?
Perhaps it is that big in order to be powerful enough to "burn" dark matter instead of baryonics?

[factotum]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

The best (and cheapest) prison for something too extremely dangerous to let out, ever, is the event horizon of the nearest black hole.

That's not imprisonment--it's execution. Tidal forces would tear anything to shreds as it fell into the black hole.

[tonberrian]

Oh crap.

The other Tagons died in a nanny war. I'm sure of it now.

[BRC]

well, the explanation for how the two remaining Tagons survived is straitforward. Both were in the military, and therefore not at home. It's possible they were killed in the opening actions of that war.

Remind me what we know about the Celeschul Terraforming Wars again? It was a war between human colonists and the Chul Squid-people, right?

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by BRC

Remind me what we know about the Celeschul Terraforming Wars again? It was a war between human colonists and the Chul Squid-people, right?

That's manifestly among the things we do not know. We do know however that the Tagons died "just before the start of the Terraforming wars," perhaps even in the same attack in which half of the high command got nuked from orbit.

The Schuul are a "pathologically peaceful" race, whose "exclusively aquatic lifestyle" that preclude "high energy manufacturing" do not strike me as being prone to such a pre-emptive attack. Besides, Tagon (Kaff) has met "schuul sympathizing" diplobrats before and assumes Aliss is one, but bears him no apparent ill-will on that account.

More likely as theorized elsewhere is a conflict between the CDS surface dwellers and those in the orbital slums desirous of increasing surface space. With the Schuul caught in the crossfire. That sort of thing will make them nervous enough to spy on the humans, especially after Celeshul has been coerced into a "joint forces" agreement with the UNS.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by factotum

That's not imprisonment--it's execution.

Your point being?

Tidal forces would tear anything to shreds as it fell into the black hole.

As opposed to being crushed into neutronium? Remember we/the UNS knows the size and mass of the artifact, and has calculated based on that that it needs to have a neutronium core.

Anyway, tidal forces will not tear apart anything at less then atomic scale (if that). Gravity at that range is not strong enough to overcome the electroweak forces. They will not affect energy or information (photons) at all, but a black hole can contain them.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

That's manifestly among the things we do not know. We do know however that the Tagons died "just before the start of the Terraforming wars," perhaps even in the same attack in which half of the high command got nuked from orbit.

The Schuul are a "pathologically peaceful" race, whose "exclusively aquatic lifestyle" that preclude "high energy manufacturing" do not strike me as being prone to such a pre-emptive attack. Besides, Tagon (Kaff) has met "schuul sympathizing" diplobrats before and assumes Aliss is one, but bears him no apparent ill-will on that account.

More likely as theorized elsewhere is a conflict between the CDS surface dwellers and those in the orbital slums desirous of increasing surface space. With the Schuul caught in the crossfire. That sort of thing will make them nervous enough to spy on the humans, especially after Celeshul has been coerced into a "joint forces" agreement with the UNS.

Right. Sorry. Somehow I got it into my head that the war was with the Schulls (Probably the "Schull Sympathizing diplomat" Comment, which made me think Tagon had been fighting against the Schulls).

[factotum]

Am I the only one who thinks that Ennesby's sudden total incompetence at controlling a starship is there so they're forced to put Tagii back in when the excrement really starts hitting the rotating ventilation device?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by factotum

Am I the only one who thinks that Ennesby's sudden total incompetence at controlling a starship is there so they're forced to put Tagii back in when the excrement really starts hitting the rotating ventilation device?

I'm not sure about that, but his incompetence is fully understandable, since he is still learning the ship - typically the proces of installing an AI in a new peice of equipment would be more elaborate then shoving it in.

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Anyway, tidal forces will not tear apart anything at less then atomic scale (if that). Gravity at that range is not strong enough to overcome the electroweak forces. They will not affect energy or information (photons) at all, but a black hole can contain them.

Not quite; it's mroe a matter of scale and tidel forces around a singularity are exactly that powerful. The process is sometimes called spagettization. Whether the information is lost or not, is still unknown as far as I know.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by Radar

Not quite; it's mroe a matter of scale and tidel forces around a singularity are exactly that powerful. The process is sometimes called spagettization. Whether the information is lost or not, is still unknown as far as I know.

The Evant Horizon is still a long way from the singularity though. It is by definition the distance at which the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light, ie, the point where stuff checks in but it don't check out. Yes, spagettification at that point will have torn apart any macroscopic structure but not the matter itself. Beyond that point the math gets funky, but relativity implies that even though matter should continue to fall toward the singularity, the dilation of time is such the matter itself will never experience it.


Anywho, I think we can be agreed that the idea that there Oisri is an artificially constructed prison for some sort of BBEG (which is not even what the Gav said) is less likely then the possibility that it is any of a number of other things which "look more like a prison cell then a treasure chest." Some have been mentioned - a zoo, a sleeper cell, the asteroid Yonada, etc. There are others. [DANGER: TV Trope link detected!]

Which does not by any stretch of course mean that opening it is A Good Thing™. Consider for example taking the position that "All living things should be free," applying it to the grizzly bears of a wildlife refuge, and turning them loose. This would be A Bad Thing™ - for the grizzly bears!

[Rockphed]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Which does not by any stretch of course mean that opening it is A Good Thing™. Consider for example taking the position that "All living things should be free," applying it to the grizzly bears of a wildlife refuge, and turning them loose. This would be A Bad Thing™ - for the grizzly bears!

I think there was a case where some very well intentioned people freed a bunch of minks from a fur-farm and dumped them in a wild-life refuge...for something that minks find very tasty. Yep, not always a good idea to free things without doing your research. In this case, research means reading the planet sized manual.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by Radar

I'm not sure about that, but his incompetence is fully understandable, since he is still learning the ship - typically the proces of installing an AI in a new peice of equipment would be more elaborate then shoving it in.

I Think the point is to establish some tension.
He already established that Touch-And-Go was fast enough to snipe any gavzombies with it's plasma lance. My guess is that the next comic will be Tagon telling Ennesby not to bother helping. No help is better than help that is poorly aimed.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

The Evant Horizon is still a long way from the singularity though. It is by definition the distance at which the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light, ie, the point where stuff checks in but it don't check out. Yes, spagettification at that point will have torn apart any macroscopic structure but not the matter itself. Beyond that point the math gets funky, but relativity implies that even though matter should continue to fall toward the singularity, the dilation of time is such the matter itself will never experience it.

Again not quite:
1. Tidal forces at the event horizont depend vastly on the mass of the black hole - mostly because the event horizont is linearily proportional to the mass of the black hole.

Spoiler

In terms of classical mechanics:
F=GdMm/r^3
(G - gravitational constant, d - diameter of the object experiencing tidal streaching, M and m - masses of the hole and the object respectively, r - average distance between the object and center of the hole)
R=2GM/c^2
(R - Schwarzschild radius, c - speed of light in vacuum)
When put together:
F=dmc^6/(8G^2 M^2)

2. Time dilation is subjective. We could never see anything reaching the event horizont, but it doesn't mean, that anyone falling into a black hole, won't reach the singularity in finite time (in his personal reference frame).
3. Mathematics gets funky only at the singularity. It's just that there is no reference frame stationary with respect to the black hole beyond the event horizont. If you calculate everything from a freefall perspective, then everything works.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Your point being?

I don't know if this is one of the points that was being made, but generally things that have been executed no longer need to be continually executed ad nauseum.

[Spamotron]

Okay, If Tagon's "girlfriend," was a vector for weaponized nanotech how did he survive prolonged contact with her? Obviously the conspirators didn't want the nannies to trigger until his dad was in the killzone to prevent tipping their hand early. But, they probably started to activate as soon as she reached the house. Tagon didn't do so much as give her a kiss on the cheek before introducing her to his parents?

[The Glyphstone]

Which is confusing, because I thought Karl got promoted when half the high command got nuked from orbit, not nanotech bombed.

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-10-04

[teratorn]

Originally Posted by Spamotron

Okay, If Tagon's "girlfriend," was a vector for weaponized nanotech how did he survive prolonged contact with her?

Where did you get the info that it was nanotech? (I thought she acted as a beacon of some sort).

[memnarch]

The idea probably came from the story arc we currently have.