Yeah, but there's no way to know what Ice did in the future!
I've been avoiding reading the other plot-lines because I shouldn't be privy to the information therein. So I really have no idea what's going on in that regard. Bao clearly says no to Lillian, since it is fated for the sith to kill peoples.
You haven't been reading them? Wow You are showing far more inner strength than I could if I were in a similar situation. I mean sure I wouldn't use the info in-character but... I'd be too curious NOT to look. Call me weak willed.
__________________ My Campaigns:
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And now my philosophy edit will be forever missed!
/shameless'golookatit'statement
I like having characters give summaries of what they've learned. Especially when they get things wrong and the DM doesn't correct them. Entire adventures have spawned from a simple misunderstanding that was Telephone-Game'd throughout the party -- it's those surprises that make PbP really, really useful at times. I don't have to go sit in the living room while one player has their private session and then alternate around like a carousel.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
I love how misunderstandings can spawn whole adventures. It's always so fun when that happens, especially if the DM plays along but seeds the correct interpretation in throughout the adventure; so that at the climax of the campaign the PCs realize "Wait, you mean the Necromancer didn't raise the Prince's Girlfriend, just her hand maiden?"
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"So wait, the sand dragon that we just killed was actually the thing we went through the last adventure to resurrect, and the mummified priest we were aiding was the not-mummified cleric we fought as the BBEG at the conclusion of the last game? And his name was Zangrad while the dragon's was Vissilu, but we got that mixed up?
Oooooooooooooooooooh."
That was... crushing.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
"So wait, the sand dragon that we just killed was actually the thing we went through the last adventure to resurrect, and the mummified priest we were aiding was the not-mummified cleric we fought as the BBEG at the conclusion of the last game? And his name was Zangrad while the dragon's was Vissilu, but we got that mixed up?
Oooooooooooooooooooh."
That was... crushing.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :smallbi ggrin:
OMG! Hilarious!
__________________ My Campaigns:
- Avengers: Heroic: TrackerICOOC
It definitely taught us to keep better notes, that's for certain. Also to take the time to have Understand Languages running at all times, so the ancient hieroglyphs with the names of the supposed deities of the dead race could be learned. And written down.
Still, we got a level from the sand dragon fight alone, so... ultimately, it was a win.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
It definitely taught us to keep better notes, that's for certain. Also to take the time to have Understand Languages running at all times, so the ancient hieroglyphs with the names of the supposed deities of the dead race could be learned. And written down.
Still, we got a level from the sand dragon fight alone, so... ultimately, it was a win.
That's the spirit. You helped your greatest enemy but that doesn't matter - you gained a level! How every mercenary of you! I approve!
I love the idea of shoving the truth out in front of player's faces and watching them blissfully ignore the hints.
__________________ My Campaigns:
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He could be an awestruck bumpkin from the arse end of the galaxy who just met an angel. Destiny could have brought the two of your together. He could be "the one." Or he could be a devious little Lawful/Evil Spy bent on incriminating you so he can bring you to justice at the feet of the Sith-run courts...
__________________ My Campaigns:
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It's automatic. I only need to make use of it if I'm interested in the number of communications and the types being broadcasted and received within 50 kilometers. That's probably the entire station, so 300,000+ individuals' comm traffic isn't really interesting to me. And a DC20 gives me direction and distance of the broadcast... 'cept that I know both already.
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The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Yeah, but there's no way to know what Ice did in the future!
I've been avoiding reading the other plot-lines because I shouldn't be privy to the information therein. So I really have no idea what's going on in that regard. Bao clearly says no to Lillian, since it is fated for the sith to kill peoples.
EDIT: Yeah, I figured you were a law major. Your ethics and mine are incompatible, since we adhere to separate notions of Justice. There has to be the question of what Justice is, and who should be capable of setting forth an institution or constitution, an entity that will arbitrate who is and who is not Just. But without any way of understanding the notion of Justice in any true capacity -- we cannot provide a definition, only examples -- it becomes intensely questionable as to who is and who isn't adhering to Justice.
Some look to God, but I won't mention more than that because religious morality is a can of worms!
Ultimately, ancient Athens stated that the mighty, the strong -- they were who determined what was or wasn't Just. They conflated Justice with Strength, as epitomized in the Melian Dialogue (Thucydides' history of the Peloponnesian War gives the text for that dialogue). Whether or not that's correct is the subject of intense and heated argument. A lot of philosophers find (or found, for those who're dead [Plato]) the notion repugnant because it's so primal and bestial. They look to the Forms, perhaps, or ratios, or deities, or themselves in order to determine what Justice is.
What any individual believes is up to them. But it's interesting to compare with others what Justice might be. And in this case, I think justice is argon.
*is a law major* *reads post and enjoys* *doesn't believe in justice and is only a law major to at least manipulate it as much as everyone else does*
I've been reading a few...usually only when like I am scrolling down and see a name pop-up or am curious because I saw in ooc Graff scored twins.
I will say that if Kelaeon knew what I knew, he'd have gone after the Givin LONG before now. But IC it took the Ancient Sith Language and the danger sense to make him want to take out the Givin.
Edit: Well..not long before, but back when he used my name. OOC that tipped off already existing suspicions, IC it was the statute...now I'm actually suspecting I'm WAY off and that its all coincidence, but both ic and ooc Kelaeon does not desire to risk it :P
Dice is probably to try and make extra money buying 'their' dice...
Edit: Bit hesitant reading it...downloading the book still, but their summary makes me raise my eyebrow. There three books or whatever being "independent game lines" seems a bit odd...especially since they "combine to make one system"
Edit2: Forget downloading. I'm not willing to pay $30 (even if I wasn't broke till Thursday) for a playtest/Beta that isn't even a full book or system...
Edit3: Sure it only misses art and "thematic" materials, but that just makes it even more not worth $30. $30 for a soft-cover (so not the hard-cover price increase), artless (so not the color-art ink price), beta playtest?
Edit4: And based on google pretty much everyone is laughing at them so it isn't just me. I'll CONSIDER it when I actually have money but right now I'm not willing to credit card or even consider it.
Edit5: Oh and over $11 MINIMUM shipping and handling. So $41 for a beta that I'd have to wait a week for. Yeah, totally buying it. -_-
Though from what they said at the panel Lucasart "disagreed" with PDFs. *coughmoneycough*
"vetoed any PDFs of the rules, as PDFs aren't covered by their RPG licences"
Edit6: And apparently by "one system" they don't mean like splat books they mean like Warhammer where its three separate games...Yeah, let's release three games and claim 'Star Wars the story connects'. Bad start in my opinion to gouge charge so close to full price for the Beta. $30 for the beta of 1/3 of the game? Can they pass whatever they're smoking?
LucasArts considers PDFs to be digital products, which means if FFG wanted to make PDFs, they would have to buy 2 licenses - one for Star Wars Table Top Games and another to put the online. Yikes.
I don't understand the 30 dollar price tag. This could have been a "sell it at cost", black and white Beta test pamphlet. I mean, honestly, 30 bucks? Yuck.
Oh and 11 bucks to ship? Jee, thanks Canadia!
Oh and did I mention this is only 1/3rd of the rules? No Jedi in this book (apparently). Yuck.
Not liking how FFG is rolling this out. Not at all.
__________________ My Campaigns:
- Avengers: Heroic: TrackerICOOC
LucasArts considers PDFs to be digital products, which means if FFG wanted to make PDFs, they would have to buy 2 licenses - one for Star Wars Table Top Games and another to put the online. Yikes.
I don't understand the 30 dollar price tag. This could have been a "sell it at cost", black and white Beta test pamphlet. I mean, honestly, 30 bucks? Yuck.
Oh and 11 bucks to ship? Jee, thanks Canadia!
Oh and did I mention this is only 1/3rd of the rules? No Jedi in this book (apparently). Yuck.
Not liking how FFG is rolling this out. Not at all.
Yeah I edited a whole bunch in. I mean $30 is a big enough joke. $30 without even a discount on the final product? They started off by saying "We're a joke".
Trying to charge over $40 (s+h) for a beta of 1/3 of the game and then saying "Oh and buy our dice" is stupid.
Edit: Has anyone charged for a beta/playtest before by the way? Like...ever? Tabletopwise I mean.
Bad timing to see 5e (their competitor pretty much) just released its playtest...for free...
And the 1/3 is even bigger when you realize the independent nature of the systems means repeat of all the basic rules. Can't have independent without each book having most of it set aside to explain the rules. Ready to buy three rulebooks?
If they keep this up I doubt I'll buy the full version when it comes out. I'll pirate it. Hate to say it, but its pirate or not at all unless they really pull this around. I'll keep tracking SAGA books and buying those instead.
Edit:
This is a quote from their forums and I sadly agree with it...
Quote:
Huh…
My gaming experience: I grew up on SW and have been an avid fan of both the SW universe and RPG's for over 30 years. I've enjoyed playing a very wide range of gaming systems, including 40K and systems of my own creation.
1) Making us PAY for a beta version of the game. It's hard to express my deep disappointment in this insult without using improper language. I will simply say I am …displeased.
2) All new dice. Really? Is that actually necessary? I've not seen this system, so am reserving judgement. However, when a gaming company requires you to buy all new equipment (like new 40K armies every other year), it feels like a decision made to make more money, as opposed to actually improving a system.
3) Three separate books, divided by classes. Judging by the first one, we're looking at a total of over 700 pages of gaming material. This means either there will be a ton of redundant material from book-to-book; or just to play this game, we will be flipping pages and moving books around constantly. Can you imagine sitting around a table with four other people, the table covered with all your typical gaming stuff PLUS THREE big books each? 15 books!?
I am deeply saddened to see this prelude to the next generation of the Star Wars RPG. I am perfectly happy to shell out cash for a product that will provide what it's supposed to. So far, this product looks like a thinly veiled attempt to sell as much crap to gamers as possible by creating a complex system requiring us to buy 100's of dollars of unnecessary material per person, then putting the Star Wars logo on it so we won't notice. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
For my part, I will stick to the Saga rules and extend a supporting thumbs-up to those still playing the D6 system.
Also from someone WITH the book:
Quote:
I'm reding the beta book right now. There ARE rules for force users, just not pre-Imperial "classic" Jedi. No cards, but yes to Special Dice. HOWEVER, the last page of the book is stickers to MAKE the special dice for free; they have a table in the book to let you just roll normal dice & translate them to the special values; and in the seminar today, they announced that there will be a FREE iOS and Android app for a specialty dice roller. :-)
Also… It appears that minis and maps are not required to play…
The Dragon Age Beta was free, the D&D Beta was free, the Pathfinder Beta was free. Yup, all free.
I can understand having to pay for the Beta. I get that, LucasArts are *****. We all get it. But there is no reason for this to be 30 bucks + 11 S/H AND still be a Beta. If they were smart, they would have produced a fun "space game" that used the same mechanics. Release it for free and see what people thought. Use the info to shore up the system, then say "hey, we're also using the system for Star Wars! Yay!"
They could have done something to lessen the burden they are putting on customers here.
I am willing to pay for a Star Wars Beta but in no way am I willing to pay 40 bucks for one.
And why aren't they offering deals for Beta buyers? Like buy the Beta today. Get the Game and a set of dice for a discount later!"
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The book reminds me of the D&D Essentials line of books. Paperback, small, great for the table. I like that.
However, I bought the Essentials books for 20 bucks a piece. Beat that FFG.
Also, I was thinking... Maybe the price is so high because they're worried very little will change from the beta to the real release, so they're figuring the real release will be more like the D&D 4E Deluxe core books, which amounted to better binding, glossier pages and errata included. If that's their fear, then they shouldn't be pumping everything out at all.
They should have released a teaser game that has all game rules but gives you per-generated characters, or limited character generation tables.
__________________ My Campaigns:
- Avengers: Heroic: TrackerICOOC
The book reminds me of the D&D Essentials line of books. Paperback, small, great for the table. I like that.
However, I bought the Essentials books for 20 bucks a piece. Beat that FFG.
Also, I was thinking... Maybe the price is so high because they're worried very little will change from the beta to the real release, so they're figuring the real release will be more like the D&D 4E Deluxe core books, which amounted to better binding, glossier pages and errata included. If that's their fear, then they shouldn't be pumping everything out at all.
They should have released a teaser game that has all game rules but gives you per-generated characters, or limited character generation tables.
Well according to what I've read its the final book minus art work and 'thematic materials' so there is that. But it still seems a bit insulting. I'm reading more on it, but I still dislike the "our own dice" "three different system" and "beta for $30 plus s+h"
Found out what the dice are/do:
The dice in question are:
% dice for the occurence of "obligations" in an adventure, or lookups in assorted tables
Positive Dice
3x d8 "ability dice" to generate basic successes
2x d12 "proficiency dice" to generate successes in combination with training
1x d6 "boost dice" to generate successes pulled from story, plot, or circumstance bonuses
Negative Dice
3x d8 "difficulty dice" to oppose ability dice and cancel successes
1x d12 "challenge dice" to oppose proficency dice with well prepared opponents
1x d6 "setback dice" to counter situational bonuses from boost dice
Force Dice
1x d12 force die to generate the entire session's resource pool of destiny points, both light (player use) and dark (GM use)
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Re: OOC: SW Saga: E-i-E - Chap. II: Hope's Gambit
You are showing far more inner strength than I could if I were in a similar situation. I mean sure I wouldn't use the info in-character but... I'd be too curious NOT to look. Call me weak willed. 
