He says that the laws only apply to humans, but then his next statement makes it sound like exactly the opposite is true. It's weird.
I believe his point is that the Law makes the distinction between mind-controlling another human and binding non-humans with circles and such (in D&D terms, dominate person and suggestion are bad, geas and planar binding are fine), so he's saying "You know that only mind-controlling other humans breaks the Fourth Law, but even if the Law did apply to faeries, what I did wasn't mind control so it wouldn't matter anyway."
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Sig of Holding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abadguy
Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
Harry actually says both, that the law only applies to humans and that he wasn't binding Toot-Toot. Here's the quote from the book:
He says that the laws only apply to humans, but then his next statement makes it sound like exactly the opposite is true. It's weird. Then during the fight with the demon he reinforces again that they don't only apply to humans:
We know that Jim sometimes makes stuff up and changes stuff on the fly (see Ivy). This may be a case of that. However unlike in other instances there is nothing that really contradicts Harry's statement except in the same book. It's murky.
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Originally Posted by afroakuma
Really though, you're looking at a shapeshifted angel of some sort getting all Discovery Channel about how exactly Friendship Is Magic.
Please don't ask questions like this.
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Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword
It is fairly hard to render a body into a form a necromancer can't do SOMETHING with it. They are the Martha Stewart's of spellcasters.
Any guesses as to whose birthday party it is?
It's possible that it could be Harry's, though that would mean it took approximately eight weeks to start remembering who he was after he initially came out of his coma. So the time frame feels a little wrong on that.
It would, however, account for Cat Sith's comment about how Harry "Cannot possibly be that stupid."
Celebrating birthdays strikes me as a very mortal thing to do. I don't think it would have the same meaning for one of the major fae.
Got a link to that chapter? I can't find it on Butcher's site.
Edit: Wait, now I hvae it. It's not on the page of Cold Days, just on the main page.
Cat Sith is surprisingly helpful, for a Winter. Oh, he's casually threatening, and he refuses to follow the spirit of a command, but he's actually giving Dresden advice, voluntarily.
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
It's his own birthday. the other birthdays he wouldn't know without really forshadowing and the remark form Cat Sith is indicating that harry woudl be stupid. And no one would be stupid enough to ferget one's own birthday (except for harry who never really got round to celebrating it under justin and continued the tradition afterwards). Besides, he's the only mortal elft and the question is if you still celebrate your birthday when you are immortal (aka when age doesn't matter anyway or when you are too old to remember your age anyway).
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
Wait, wasn't this second chapter in the paperback version of Ghost Story? Because I swear I've read this before.
Yes, the first two chapters of Cold Days came out as an early-spoiler in paperback Ghost Story.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
It's his own birthday. the other birthdays he wouldn't know without really forshadowing and the remark form Cat Sith is indicating that harry woudl be stupid. And no one would be stupid enough to ferget one's own birthday (except for harry who never really got round to celebrating it under justin and continued the tradition afterwards). Besides, he's the only mortal elft and the question is if you still celebrate your birthday when you are immortal (aka when age doesn't matter anyway or when you are too old to remember your age anyway).
And it's a hilarious opportunity for major complications involving faerie gifts.
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
But... Sith is just the Scottish version of Sidhe/Sí (i.e. his name is "Fairy Cat", like Leanan Sidhe is "Fairy Lover", Banshee is "Fairy Woman", etc.), and he himself uses Sidhe as a general term about a minute later.
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I like to think that the binding of creatures of Faeries in the like through Names is, technically, a violation of the law against binding, but the spirit of the law was to prevent the binding of humans. It's enough for an overzealous zealot of a Warden to get you in trouble for, but otherwise it's hardly enforced, and if you don't establish any control, that Warden would have even less ground to stand on.
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The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
Ok, so when you post about a chapter being up could you please link to it? The chapter is nowhere on Jim's website that I can find.
I've read the first two though, so it's all good.
Spoiler
Thank God Jim said no more surprise children. If it were Mab's child's birthday I would be very sad.
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You, too, could have a trophy case this intense! Participate in Iron Avatarist! Do it, or I'll start sending you drunken PMs.
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I am not brave enough to say something outrageous and be serious. You'll be happier if you assume I'm joking.
Stoats legit King Arthur by The Succubus.
Ok, so when you post about a chapter being up could you please link to it? The chapter is nowhere on Jim's website that I can find.
When you type in www.jim-butcher.com it's the first thing you see on the page. As such, I have to think that your search may have been rather less comprehensive than you claim.
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"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne
Just got around to rereading Chapter Two from Jim's website (I have the Ghost Story paperback already, but didn't want to look for it) and am curious about something.
Spoiler
Mab apparently sent Harry's mothers silver pentacle to a jeweler to have the ruby he got in Changes properly set into the thing, rather than just letting it be there with the hot glue. Do you think they were able to undo the damage to the pentacle itself from dealing with the loup-garou? Seems like that sort of thing would take nothing less than a faerie craftsman to take care of. It's also entirely probable I'm thinking too much about this.
I've posted on the DF forum once or twice, but why would we want to go there when we have a perfectly serviceable Dresden Files thread right here? Mostly I hang out around Roosterteeth, but there's a couple of threads like this one and the GG thread that make coming to GitP very worthwhile.
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"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne
I'm on the forums as Mauve Shirt, but I don't go over there that often. When I do I hang out in the DF Spoilers subforum, where all of the most interesting threads are thousands of pages long and I can't contribute anything.
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Stoats legit King Arthur by The Succubus.
If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.
Ok, so new question, is there any character that Harry knows that you think might secretly be part of the black council? Maybe all the crap that's gone wrong in Harry's life has made me paranoid for him, but there are several people I'm suspicious of.
I like Harry/Elaine as a couple. There's something about first love, it would be nice to see it win. On the other hand, I don't trust her. She was deep in that Aurora thing, and we know the summer lady was probably being manipulated by the black council. She's always lying to and tricking Harry when they meet up, and the last time she stopped the Skavis but got injured too much to be on hand to take on the black council agents (Vitto and Madrigal).
I've got the same suspicions of Ramirez. He's so powerful and so young and so much on Harry's side, but we know so little about him. He could easily be a traitor. Of course, if he was he could have knifed Harry in the back when they were riding that T-Rex and let Cowl win, but still.
Maybe the most wild of all, I've always been a little bit suspicious of Ebenezar. What if being the Blackstaff and going against the laws of magic really has corrupted him (even though there seem to be things in place to prevent that). Him being part of the black council would put a whole new spin on all the things he's done. Even creating the grey council. It could be a way of bringing together all the black council's most savvy enemies into one place. Then they could take them on or just reveal their existence to the white council, which, as Harry says at the end of Turn Coat, would make everyone think they were the black council and probably get them executed.
That's just a few. There's been times I've even thought that maybe Murphy, but no, that's probably too far. Harry is the only one who really knew from way back how capable Murphy was.
Anyway, paranoid? Maybe, but just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face.
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"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne
Personally, I don't trust the Gatekeeper. Now, I don't think he'll actually be on the Black Council. He seems to be set up as a mysterious mentor figure for Harry.
My question is this. He seems to be connected to several of the laws of Magic. The Outer Gates - he's the Gatekeeper. There are some indications he has something to do with time travel or prophecy as well. The Outer Gates seem to have been breached, if someone's summoning outsiders. Why is no one the least bit suspicious about the Gatekeeper?
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
I've heard the theory about Eb. I'm not sure what to think of it. I mean, we know his daughter was black council, and we know he seriously didn't like it.
Elaine I suspect is still on the side of the summer faeries. Since Titania is probably on the black council, Elaine could end up on the black council. She's also Outsiderbane, and if they can't have Harry they'd probably be happy to have Elaine.
Carlos? I doubt it. Too young, too anti-black-magic, too many chances to kill Harry and never did so. He didn't help Cowl when he attacked in White Night either.
Murphy is WAY far-fetched.
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You, too, could have a trophy case this intense! Participate in Iron Avatarist! Do it, or I'll start sending you drunken PMs.
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I am not brave enough to say something outrageous and be serious. You'll be happier if you assume I'm joking.
Stoats legit King Arthur by The Succubus.
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
Well, the black council is nothign more then supposed bad guys in an organised setting. The kemmler students do seem to fit that description. Now if they are part of the black council, or are the black council remains to be seen. for now I think it's interesting to see what happens.
On the note of (prominent) councilmembers belonging to the black council: I don't suspect Injun Joe, Ebenezer and the Gatekeeper. The rest is as suspect as anything IMO. I mean, if you can't trust the bureacrats naymore, the world really has gone to hell and even the grandmeister can be corrupted. (I'm lookign at you merlin who still after all this time doesn't trust Harry)
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
I think the Merlin is fine, more or less. Because Butcher does good twists, and the Merlin would be too obvious.
About the Kemmlerites and the Black Council: some of them are in it, if there is one, I agree. But they were fighting each other, and some were a lot, well, nicer than others. So, I think Cowl is okay. Unless I'm misremembering which one cowl was.
“Not a promise, not an oath, or a malediction or a curse,” I said, sounding calm, probably inaudible in the midst of the screaming. “Inevitable. Wasn’t that how she put it? I told them. Warned them.”
-Taylor Hebert. Yes, I'm a proud Skittle.
Of the Senior Council I'm most suspicious of Injun Joe. We only have "Ebenezar trusts him" as really vouching for him and a great reason for going off the well-intentioned-extremist end of the pool. Though we have no good reason to clear Martha Liberty or Ancient Mai. LaFortier is busy being dead with Simon RussianName. Cristos and Langtry go under "stupid is everywhere, everyday" though we really can't clear Cristos. The Gatekeeper is clearly the only guy with a brain and the only one on the Council playing the Real Game we're only starting to learn about.
However I think at this point I'd say Peabody strongly speaks against suspecting the Senior Council. You don't have the butler do it for there to still be the master under suspicion.
Also pretty evidently Grevane and Corpsetaker were not Black Council but very possibly had dealings with it. Just as Justin Cowl clearly is, also demonstrating the real name is the Circle.
I still kinda get the feeling Elaine is up to something, but only because she seems to be in some tragic heroine niche. Or just the Catwoman to Harry's Batman.
And unless Lara is playing both sides we've nobody else to be suspecting. I'm reasonably sure she will end up on the "good guys" probably by being the only one to successfully play the Black Council for some crucial info.
I agree about Lara. Like Marcone Lara doesn't work for anyone but herself. Besides which, the black council (the circle) tried to decapitate the white court back in White Night. Cowl had Vitto and the super goblins (and a freaking Outsider) move to take them all out in one stroke. No reason to do that if the Circle was already secretly controlling the white court through Lara. That, of course, will make Lara and Marcone (and maybe even Nicodemus?) perfect allies for Harry if/when he has to move against the black council. They all have an interest in taking them out, and they're all too stubborn/full of themselves to be working for the secret group.
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"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight ... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly only when I'm gettin' paid, but ... eating people alive? Where's that get fun?" - Jayne
Last edited by datalaughing : 11-12-2012 at 01:19 PM.
I'd be... disappointed... if Nicodemus ended up an actual ally. It would positively ruin his most repugnant douchery. I mean maybe do a quick "favor" or something that nominally counts as helping, but not in the end showing up for the side of Harry. Killed off before would be a good resolution perhaps.
Lara and Marcone are totally going to end winner by hitching themselves to the real winning side. I more then half expected Marcone to be a member of the Grey Council.
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