The Codex of War - A Spiritual Successor to The Warrior's Way (NEEDS FEEDBACK!)

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 12:52 PM

The Codex of War
The Tome of Battle - Digitally Remastered

The world of Dungeons & Dragons is filled with characters who pursue the warrior's way. Barbarians destroy their foes in the heat of berserk frenzies. Paladins rely on virtue and courage as they smite the wicked. Fighters master an array of maneuvers and techniques to overcome the monsters they encounter. It is the Fighter that explores and studies battle in its purest form, striving for perfection of his craft. Relying on skill of arms alone, rather than explosions of rage or investments of divine power, the Fighter's fighting style is peerless in the theater of war. Through discipline and determination, through knowledge, practice, and study, any character can dabble in fighting styles. A master of any style is capable of performing superhuman martial exploits and may sometimes transcend the natural world.

The Codex of War is meant to be much more than just a re-presentation of the rules found in the Tome of Battle. Before I'd gotten my eager hands on my copy of the Tome of Battle I had expected it to be a refinement, revision, and improvement of combat in general for D&D 3.5. What I received instead was something unexpected and enjoyable, but not quite the same thing. With my "digital remastering" of the Tome of Battle, the Codex of War aims more loftily toward that goal of fully re-rendering and improving the mechanics of D&D combat, which includes classes, feats, and Fighting Styles.

Base Attack Bonus: Redefined

A character's Base Attack Bonus means much more than just a number added to attack rolls. More even than the extra attacks gained at values +6, +11, and +16. Just as spellcasters access higher levels of spells as their caster levels increase, so too are fighting characters given access to higher levels of maneuvers as their Base Attack Bonus increases.

Later in this work information and rules detailing various Fighting Styles and their accompanying maneuvers and stances can be found. As a character's Base Attack Bonus increases, more of this material becomes available to it and in more powerful packages. See A Quick Primer of Fighting Styles below for more information.

At Base Attack Bonus +1, all characters are able to learn 1st level maneuvers (though they do not do so automatically). For every two points of Base Attack Bonus a character earns beyond that, he or she is able to learn maneuvers of a higher level. For example, a character with Base Attack Bonus +9 is able to learn 5th level maneuvers.

Furthermore, the "full attack action" is a thing of the past. A character may take all attacks entitled to him or her from Base Attack Bonus (as well as extra attacks from class features such as Flurry of Blows or spells such as Haste) anytime he or she uses the attack action or the charge action.

Changes to Combat Rules

Coming Soon!

A Quick Primer on Fighting Styles

The Codex of War describes rules for martial exploits which redefines the concepts of Base Attack Bonus, Style feats, and fighting characters of all types. Here are some of the salient terms and facts you will need to be familiar with as you parse the rest of the material.

Fighting Style: A Fighting Style is a family or school of maneuvers that share some common philosophy or effect. There are several Fighting Styles (such as Desert Wind, Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven) and DMs are encouraged to work with their players to develop new Fighting Styles.

Maneuver: A maneuver is a specific, one-shot effect initiated by a character. In this way, a maneuver can be compared functionally to a spell; however maneuvers are not usually used up over the course of an adventuring day the way spells are. Any character with knowledge of one or more maneuvers begins each new encounter with all such maneuvers ready to use. When a character initiates a maneuver, it is temporarily expended until such time as he is able to perform a special action required to recover his maneuvers. The type of action necessary varies based on the Fighting Style that the maneuver belongs to.

There are three basic types of maneuvers - Boosts, Counters, and Strikes. In addition, each Fighting Style has a single Stance associated with it.

A Boost augments the initiating character's abilities in some manner. For example, a character studying the Desert Wind Fighting Style is able to use a Boost that wreathes his weapon in flame to deal extra fire damage on a successful hit.

A Counter is an immediate action that allows the initiating character to foil an enemy's actions. For example, practitioners of the Setting Sun Fighting Style are capable of using a Counter to avoid a foe's charge by stepping aside.

A Strike is a special attack that often deals additional damage and/or carries a special effect. For example, using a Strike from the Stone Dragon Fighting Style can allow the initiating character to smash through the toughest hides and through walls alike!

Stance: Each Fighting Style has an associated Stance, a particular pose or method of movement, that grants a character passive benefits. For example, the Stance of the White Raven Fighting Style is a slow, confident stride that inspires courage in one's allies and fear in one's enemies. Unlike other maneuvers, most stances can remain in effect for an indefinite time. All Stances of Fighting Styles a character knows are available to him or her at all times. A character can adopt a Stance, or change from one Stance to another, as a swift action. A character may simply end a Stance (without entering another) as a free action.

Initiate: A character that uses a maneuver is said to have initiated it. So instead of casting a spell, or manifesting a psionic power, a character initiates a maneuver.

Key Skill: Every Fighting Style is tied to a skill, such as Balance, Concentration, or Jump. Sometimes key skills come into play in the initiation of maneuver, but mostly they represent the ideals around which a Fighting Style is centered. Practitioners of a given Fighting Style add its key skill to their list of class skills and gain a bonus to checks using that skill that increases as they learn more maneuvers of the same Fighting Style.

Associated Weapons: Every Fighting Style has a list of Associated Weapons, one or more which must be wielded by an initiator to enter that style's Stance and to initiate any of that style's maneuvers.

Fighting Classes: Revisited

Spoiler

The Barbarian
A work in progress...

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The Fighter
A work in progress...

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The Paladin
A work in progress...

Spoiler

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 01:25 PM

Reserved for Feats.

Alertness¹
Prerequisites: Listen 4 ranks, Spot 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Listen and Spot checks. You may draw a weapon as a free action, even if it's not your turn. While you are Flat-footed you do not lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and may make opportunity attacks and take immediate actions.
Normal: Drawing a weapon is either a move action or must be done during a move action and must be done on your turn. While you are Flat-footed you cannot make opportunity attacks or take immediate actions.
Special: For non-Codex material, the Alertness feat is treated as the Quick Draw feat for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.

Combat Expertise¹
Prerequisites: Int 13 or Wis 13, Fighter level 1st
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all attack rolls and opposed checks you make as part of a special attack (Disarm, Feint, Grab, Overrun, Sunder, or Trip), whether you are attempting the attack or defending against it. Furthermore, whenever you succeed at a special attack, the defending creature provokes an opportunity attack from you.
Special: In order to succeed at a Grab special attack you must succeed on an attached Hold, Pull, or Push attempt.

Expert's Defense¹
Prerequisites: Int 13 or Wis 13, Fighter level 5th
Benefit: Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you when they attempt to Disarm, Feint, Grab, Overrun, or Trip you, and when they attempt to Sunder an item you are holding. If your opportunity attack hits, then the provoking creature's action automatically fails.
Normal: A creature doesn't provoke an opportunity attack for attempting any of the above special attacks.

Combat Reflexes¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Dex 15
Benefit: You are entitled to make a number of opportunity attacks each round equal to the number of attacks you are entitled to make in an attack action, to a maximum of 1 per point of your Dexterity bonus (minimum 1).

These opportunity attacks are made at the same attack bonus as attacks you make during an attack action. For example, your first opportunity attack is made at your highest attack bonus, while later opportunity attacks you make in the round suffer a cumulative -5 penalty to their attack rolls.

When a creature provokes an opportunity attack from you, you may take any number of these attacks as you wish.

Normal: Characters may make one opportunity attack each round at your highest attack bonus.
Special: The Haste spell grants you an additional opportunity attack each round at your highest attack bonus.

Combat Training
Prerequisites: Proficiency with all simple weapons
Benefit: Choose one of your classes that has a Poor Base Attack Bonus progression (+1/two levels). Your Base Attack Bonus progression for all levels in that class increases from Poor to Average (+3/four levels).

Deadly Aim¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Dex 13
Benefit: Whenever you make a ranged attack, you may suffer a -2 penalty to that attack roll to deal 1d6 extra damage if the attack hits.
Special: For every two points of Base Attack Bonus you possess beyond +1 you may suffer a further -2 penalty in order to deal an additional d6 of damage with this feat. For example, a character with Base Attack Bonus +5 could suffer a penalty up to -6 in order to deal 3d6 extra damage with any melee attack he or she makes.

Deep Impact¹
Prerequisites: Str 13
Benefit: When you miss with an attack by 5 or less you deal half damage with any weapon, not just [Heavy] weapons. If you wield a [Heavy] weapon and miss with an attack you deal half damage even when you miss by more than 5.

Diehard
Prerequisites: Con 15, Character level 6th, Endurance
Benefit: You are neither Disabled nor Unconscious when reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, and your delayed damage is delayed until the end of the encounter and not until the beginning of your next turn.

Endurance
Prerequisites: Con 13
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to all Constitution-based checks and to Fortitude saves. Furthermore, you possess a Delayed Damage pool that increases with your Character Level as shown in the table below:

Character Level Delayed Damage
1st to 4th 5
5th to 8th 10
9th to 12th 15
10th to 16th 20
17th and higher 25

Whenever you are dealt damage, a portion of that damage, up to your Delayed Damage pool, is delayed until the start of your next turn.

Furious Counterstrike¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Con 13, Endurance
Benefit: For every 5 points of damage you've taken that is delayed you gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls.

Graceful Strike¹
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You may apply your Dexterity modifier to attack rolls rather than your Strength modifier with any weapon, not just [Finesse] weapons. If you wield a [Finesse] weapon you may also apply your Dexterity modifier to damage rather than your Strength modifier.

Improved Combat Training
Prerequisites: Proficiency with all simple weapons, Proficiency with all martial weapons
Benefit: Choose one of your classes that has an Average Base Attack Bonus progression (+3/four levels). Your Base Attack Bonus progression for all levels in that class increases from Average to Good (+1/level).

Improved Unarmed Strike
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: Your Unarmed Strike is a martial weapon that deals more damage than normal based on your Base Attack Bonus, as shown in the table below:

Base Attack Bonus Damage
+0 to +4 1d4
+5 to +9 1d6
+10 to +14 1d8
+15 to +19 1d10
+20 and higher 1d12

The values shown are for Medium-sized creatures. Adjust up or down depending on your size.
Normal: A creature's Unarmed Strike is a simple weapon that deals 1d3 damage and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Know Thy Enemy¹
Prerequisites: Any three Knowledge skills 5 ranks, One Knowledge skill 10 ranks, Fighter level 7th, Weapon Training +1
Benefit: Whenever you succeed at a Knowledge check to identify a creature's abilities and weaknesses you double your Weapon Training bonuses against that creature for the duration of the encounter.

Martial Weapon Proficiency
Prerequisites: Proficiency with all simple weapons
Benefit: You are proficient with all martial weapons.

Power Attack¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Str 13
Benefit: Whenever you make a melee attack, you may suffer a -2 penalty to that attack roll to deal 1d6 extra damage if the attack hits.
Special: For every two points of Base Attack Bonus you possess beyond +1 you may suffer a further -2 penalty in order to deal an additional d6 of damage with this feat. For example, a character with Base Attack Bonus +5 could suffer a penalty up to -6 in order to deal 3d6 extra damage with any melee attack he or she makes.

Precise Shot¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Dex 15
Benefit: Whenever you make a ranged attack you reduce your target's Cover bonuses to AC by up to 4, Concealment miss chance by up to 20%, and resistance to Critical Hits by 25%.

Simple Weapon Proficiency
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: You are proficient with all simple weapons.

Stand Still¹
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +3
Benefit: Whenever you hit a creature with an attack of opportunity, that creature is Checked for 1 round (a flying creature Checked in this way moves 0 feet).

Style Training¹ [STYLE]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1
Benefit: Choose any one Fighting Style. Add that Style's Key Skill to your list of class skills and learn any two maneuvers of that Style that you meet the prerequisites for. You gain a bonus to checks with that Style's Key Skill equal to the number of maneuvers you know from the Fighting Style.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take it beyond the first you may either choose a new Fighting Style or learn two new maneuvers from a Fighting Style you have already chosen.

Toughness
Prerequisites: Con 13
Benefit: Choose one size of Hit Dice you possess. You gain an additional Hit Dice of that size and all Hit Dice you possess of that size increase in size by one step (to a Maximum of d12), increasing your Hit Points accordingly. If your Hit Dice are d12s already, then you gain +1 Hit Point per Hit Dice of that size you possess.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times.

Weapon Focus¹ [STYLE]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1
Benefit: Choose a single weapon that you are proficient with. You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with that weapon, and to the saving throw DC of any save elicited by an attack made with that weapon. You treat the chosen weapon as an associated weapon for all Fighting Styles.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take it beyond the first, choose a different weapon.

Weapon Mastery¹ [STYLE]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +11, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
Benefit: When you use the attack action with a weapon you chose when you took the Weapon Focus feat you may make an extra attack with that weapon at your highest Base Attack Bonus. Each successful attack you make in a round with that weapon grants you a +1 dodge bonus to AC and causes your next attacks with that weapon to deal 1d6 extra damage until the start of your next turn.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take it beyond the first, choose a different weapon.

Weapon Specialization¹ [STYLE]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Weapon Focus
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls with a weapon you chose when you took the Weapon Focus feat, to opposed checks made with special attacks using that weapon (such as Disarm or Trip), and to the saving throw DC of any save elicited by an attack made using that weapon. These bonuses do not stack with those granted by the Weapon Focus feat.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take it beyond the first, choose a different weapon.

Weapon Supremacy¹ [STYLE]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +16, Weapon Focus, Weapon Mastery, Weapon Specialization
Benefit: This feat grants you the following benefits:

You cannot be Disarmed of a weapon you chose when you took the Weapon Focus feat.
Once per round you may re-roll an attack made with that weapon taking the better of the two rolls.
Once per round, when you make an attack that elicits a saving throw using that weapon, you may force the defending creature to re-roll that save taking the worse of the two rolls.
You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls with that weapon, to opposed checks made with special attacks using that weapon (such as Disarm or Trip), and to the saving throw DC of any save elicited by an attack made using that weapon. These bonuses do not stack with those granted by the Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization feat.

Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take it beyond the first, choose a different weapon.

¹ - These feats are Fighter Bonus Feats.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 01:26 PM

Fighting Styles

Recovering Maneuvers: When a character performs the special action detailed in the description for each Fighting Style he or she recovers all of his or her maneuvers of the appropriate style. Characters also recover all of their maneuvers (of any styles they possess) after a 5 minute rest.

Desert Wind
Key Skill: Tumble
Associated Weapons: Dagger, Dart, Falchion, Flail, Handaxe, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Light Pick, Scimitar, Sickle, Sling, Shortspear, and Throwing Axe.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Desert Wind maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Dexterity or Wisdom modifiers.

Speed and mobility are hallmarks of the Desert Wind fighting style. Desert Wind maneuvers often involve blinding flurries of blows, quick charges, and agile footwork. Many of the maneuvers of this fighting style draw supernatural inspiration from the desert allowing their initiator to scour foes with gouts of flame and blasts of hot air.

To recover maneuvers of the Desert Wind fighting style a character must successfully use the Tumble skill to avoid an attack of opportunity and follow that with a successful basic attack against any creature it threatens.

Stance: Any character that knows at least one Desert Wind maneuver may enter the Desert Wind stance. While you are in this stance, you gain all of the following benefits depending on the highest level and number of Desert Wind maneuvers you know:

One or more Desert Wind maneuvers
You have Fire Resistance equal to 4 + your Base Attack Bonus.

Four or more Desert Wind maneuvers, one of which is 3rd level or higher.
During any round in which you move 10ft or more, whenever a creature hits you with a melee attack, that creature suffers 2d6 fire damage plus 1d6 additional fire damage for every four points of Base Attack Bonus you possess after +5 (up to 5d6 at Base Attack Bonus +17).

This is a supernatural effect.

Six or more Desert Wind maneuvers, one of which is 5th level or higher.
You gain a variable fly speed with average maneuverability that you may only use by making a Tumble check. When you wish to fly, first roll your Tumble check. Use the result of that check, rounded down to the nearest increment of 5, as your fly speed for the round. As long as you are already in the air you may hover there as a move action with a DC 20 Tumble check, otherwise you slowly fall to the ground as with the Feather Fall spell.

This is a supernatural effect.

Eight or more Desert Wind maneuvers, one of which is 7th level or higher.
You are immune to Fire damage and whenever you move 10ft or more in a round, for every 10ft you moved that round, you gain a 5% miss chance against attacks to a maximum of 50% miss chance (doubled against ranged attacks to a maximum of 100% miss chance). This miss chance doesn't stack with other miss chances you have, such as from concealment or from a Blink spell.

Maneuvers List

Spoiler

Devoted Spirit
Key Skill: Intimidate
Associated Weapons: Bastard Sword (or Katana), Flail, Greatclub, Greatsword, Heavy Mace, Heavy Shield, Lance, Longsword, Maul, Morningstar, and Warhammer.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Devoted Spirit maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Strength or Charisma modifiers.

Faith, piety, purity of body and of mind - these are the wellsprings of a warrior's true power. Devoted Spirit initiators harness their spiritual strength and zealous devotion. This fighting style allows initiators to cut down creatures that oppose their ideologies with baneful energies, and to remain fighting long after a more mundane warrior would have succumbed to injury.

To recover maneuvers of the Devoted Spirit fighting style a character must make an attack that reduces a creature of opposing alignment from more than ½ its maximum hit points to ½ or fewer or from more than 0 hit points or to 0 or fewer.

Stance: Any character that knows at least one Devoted Spirit maneuver may enter the Devoted Spirit stance. While you are in this stance, you gain all of the following benefits depending on the highest level and number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers you know:

One or more Devoted Spirit maneuvers.
Creatures within your melee reach suffer a penalty to attack rolls against your allies (not including yourself) equal to ½ your Base Attack Bonus (minimum -2).

Four or more Devoted Spirit maneuvers, one of which is 3rd level or higher.
Any creature you hit with a melee attack that performs any action on its next turn other than a melee attack against you provokes an attack of opportunity from you for that action (even if that action is a 5ft step free action or the Withdraw action). Your attack is made before the enemy gets to take that action.

Six or more Devoted Spirit maneuvers, one of which is 5th level or higher.
You suffer no penalty to AC when you charge, you may charge through difficult terrain and through allies' spaces, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for movement when you charge. Also, whenever you charge, you gain a +2 bonus to AC and saving throws that lasts until the start of your next turn.

Eight or more Devoted Spirit maneuvers, one of which is 7th level or higher.
You are not Staggered at 0 hit points and whenever an attack would reduce you to fewer than 0 hit points you may make a Fortitude save with a DC equal to your negative hit point total. If this save is successful you remain alive and conscious at 0 hit points. Each Fortitude saving throw you make in this way beyond the first suffers a cumulative -2 penalty. This penalty resets if you are able to get 8 hours of rest.

Maneuvers List

Spoiler

Diamond Mind
Key Skill: Autohypnosis
Associated Weapons: Bastard Sword (Katana), Dagger, Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Kukri, Light Crossbow, Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, Shortsword, and Two-Bladed Sword.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Diamond Mind maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers.

True quickness lies in the mind, not in the body. An initiator of the Diamond Mind fighting style seeks to hone its perceptions and discipline its thoughts to act in slivers of time so narrow that others cannot even perceive them. As a result of this meditation of the mind, the initiator learns to protect his body with his mind - an enemy defeated in the mind is inevitably defeated in body as well.

To recover maneuvers of the Diamond Mind fighting style a character must spend the round neither succeeding with or being successfully affected by any attacks. The character's maneuvers are recovered at the end of any such round, and are recovered even during rounds that the character attempted attacks as long as those attacks failed.

An attack is any effect that requires an attack roll or elicits a saving throw. An attack is successful if the attack roll is successful or if the elicited saving throw fails.

Stance: Any character that knows at least one Diamond Mind maneuver may enter the Diamond Mind stance. While you are in this stance, you gain all of the following benefits depending on the highest level and number of Diamond Mind maneuvers you know:

One or more Diamond Mind maneuvers
You gain a +1 bonus to Initiative and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. These bonuses increase by ⅕ your Base Attack Bonus.

Four or more Diamond Mind maneuvers, one of which is 3rd level or higher.
Whenever a foe misses you with an attack you gain an additional move action that you may take any time before the end of your next turn (including immediately).

Six or more Diamond Mind maneuvers, one of which is 5th level or higher.
Whenever a foe provokes an opportunity attack from you, you may, instead, take any move or standard action that you wish. If you do, that action still counts as one of your opportunity attacks for the round.

Eight or more Diamond Mind maneuvers, one of which is 7th level or higher.
Taking an immediate action does not cause you to lose your next turn's swift action. You gain an additional action each round, either an extra swift action on your turn or an extra immediate action when it isn't your turn. You may take only one of these additional actions each round (in addition to your normal actions).

Maneuvers List

Spoiler

Iron Heart
Key Skill: Perform (Weapon Drill)
Associated Weapons: All.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by an Iron Heart maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, or Wisdom modifiers.

Absolute mastery of warfare is the goal of the Iron Heart fighting style. Through unending practice and ceaseless study, the Iron Heart initiator achieves superhuman skill with weaponry. Iron Heart maneuvers are demonstrations of uncanny martial skill that weave unforgiving patterns of steel to dizzy, confuse, and ultimately kill with no recourse.

To recover maneuvers of the Iron Heart fighting style a character must follow a successful basic attack with a harmless flourish of its weapon (a swift action).

Stance: Any character that knows at least one Iron Heart maneuver may enter the Iron Heart stance. While you are in this stance, you gain all of the following benefits depending on the highest level and number of Iron Heart maneuvers you know:

One or more Iron Heart maneuvers
You gain a +1 bonus to opportunity attack and damage rolls and to AC against opportunity attacks. These bonuses increase by ⅕ your Base Attack Bonus.

Four or more Iron Heart maneuvers, one of which is 3rd level or higher.
You gain a +10ft bonus to speed and deal extra damage with your attacks equal to ½ your Base Attack Bonus during any round in which you move 20ft or more.

Six or more Iron Heart maneuvers, one of which is 5th level or higher.
You increase your reach, either by 5ft, or as if you had grown one size category, whichever grants you greater reach. Moreover, you may fire a ranged weapon at one further range increment and you reduce all ranged increment penalties on ranged attacks you make by 2.

Eight or more Iron Heart maneuvers, one of which is 7th level or higher.
You may not be attacked (which includes being the target of spells or effects which elicit a saving throw) by an enemy that does not first succeed at a Will saving throw.

Maneuvers List

Spoiler

Setting Sun
Key Skill: Spot
Associated Weapons: ... Nunchaku, Scimitar, Sling, Quarterstaff and Unarmed Strike.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Setting Sun maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Dexterity or Wisdom modifiers.

Shadow Hand
Key Skill: Sleight of Hand
Associated Weapons: Dagger, Dart, Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Sai, Sickle, Shortbow, Shortsword, Shuriken, Sling, and Unarmed Strike.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Shadow Hand maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Dexterity or Charisma modifiers.

Stone Dragon
Key Skill: Balance
Associated Weapons: Greatsword, Greataxe, Heavy Mace, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, and...
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Stone Dragon maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Strength or Wisdom modifiers.

Tiger Claw
Key Skill: Jump
Associated Weapons: Dagger, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Pick, Sickle, Shortspear, Throwing Axe, Trident, and Unarmed Strike.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a Tiger Claw maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Strength or Dexterity modifiers.

Stance: Any character that knows at least one Tiger Claw maneuver may enter the Tiger Claw stance. While you are in this stance, you gain all of the following benefits depending on the highest level and number of Tiger Claw maneuvers you know:

One or more Tiger Claw maneuvers
You gain the Scent special ability and Tremorsense out to 5ft per point of your Base Attack Bonus.

Four or more Tiger Claw maneuvers, one of which is 3rd level or higher.
For each successful hit made this round against a creature you attack you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls and deal 1d6 extra damage.

Six or more Tiger Claw maneuvers, one of which is 5th level or higher.

Eight or more Tiger Claw maneuvers, one of which is 7th level or higher.

White Raven
Key Skill: Diplomacy
Associated Weapons: Battleaxe, Greatsword, Halberd, Heavy Shield, Light Shield, Longbow, Longsword, Shortbow, Tower Shield, and Warhammer.
Saving Throws: The Saving Throw DC for any effect generated by a White Raven maneuver or its Stance is equal to 10 + 1/2 initiator's Base Attack Bonus + the higher of the initiator's Intelligence or Charisma modifiers.

More to come...

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 01:39 PM

Maneuvers: Full Descriptions

1st-Level Maneuvers

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2nd-Level Maneuvers

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3rd-Level Maneuvers

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4th-Level Maneuvers

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5th-Level Maneuvers

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6th-Level Maneuvers

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7th-Level Maneuvers

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8th-Level Maneuvers

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9th-Level Maneuvers

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Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:00 PM

Reserved for Fighting Styles.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:01 PM

Reserved for Revised Equipment & Magic Properties.

Off-Hand, Main-Hand, and Two-Handed weapons
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, can be wielded in a character's off-hand or if it must be wielded in the main-hand or in two hands.

Characters add their full ability score bonus to damage (if any) when wielding a weapon of any type, even when wielding a weapon in their off-hand. Characters wielding a weapon in two hands do not gain a bonus to damage rolls.

These weapons are marked with the [Off-Hand], [Main-Hand], or [Two-Handed] descriptors. Weapons marked with the [Off-Hand] descriptor can be wielded in the main-hand, but weapons marked with the [Main-Hand] descriptor cannot be wielded in the [Off-Hand].

Heavy Weapons
A weapon marked with the [Heavy] descriptor deals half damage even when the character wielding it misses with an attack as long as the attack missed by 5 or less.

Finesse Weapons
A melee weapon marked with the [Finesse] descriptor allows its wielder to apply his or her Dexterity modifier rather than his or her Strength modifier to attack rolls made with it, but not damage rolls. He or she may still apply his or her Strength modifier to attack rolls with a [Finesse] weapon when and if they choose.

(A link for my future reference: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255304)

Light Armor

Woven Armor: +1 AC, No Max Dex, No ACP, No Spell Failure, 3 lbs, 5gp
Leather Armor: +2 AC, Max Dex +8, ACP -1, 5% Spell Failure, 6 lbs, 10gp
Studded Leather: +3 AC, Max Dex +7, ACP -1, 5% Spell Failure, 10 lbs, 25gp
Chain Shirt: +4 AC, Max Dex +6, ACP -2, 10% Spell Failure, 15 lbs, 75gp

Medium Armor

Lamellar Armor: +4 AC, Max Dex +5, ACP -3, 15% Spell Failure, 20 lbs, 50gp
Breastplate: +5 AC, Max Dex +5, ACP -2, 10% Spell Failure, 25 lbs, 150gp
Chain Mail: +6 AC, Max Dex +4, ACP -3, 15% Spell Failure, 35 lbs, 250gp
Scale Mail: +7 AC, Max Dex +3, ACP -3, 15% Spell Failure, 25 lbs, 400gp

Heavy Armor

Splint Mail: +7 AC, Max Dex +2, ACP -4, 20% Spell Failure, 45 lbs, 300gp
Field Plate: +8 AC, Max Dex +2, ACP -4, 20% Spell Failure, 30 lbs, 700gp
Banded Mail: +9 AC, Max Dex +1, ACP -4, 20% Spell Failure, 35 lbs, 1200gp
Full Plate: +10 AC, Max Dex +0, ACP -5, 25% Spell Failure, 45 lbs, 2000gp

Shields

Buckler/Bracer: Half Cover (+2)¹, No Concealment, No ACP, No Spell Failure, 1 lb, 100gp
Small Shield: Half Cover (+2), Half Concealment (10%)², ACP -1, Spell Failure 5%, 4 lbs, 5gp (Wood)/12gp (Steel)
Large Shield: Cover (+4), Concealment (20%), ACP -2, Spell Failure 10%, 9 lbs, 15gp (Wood)/40gp (Steel)
Tower Shield: Cover (+4)³, Total Concealment (50%), ACP -5, Spell Failure 25%, 25 lbs, 75gp (Wood)/500gp (Steel)

¹ - The Cover granted by a shield can stack with other sources of Cover to grant "Improved Cover," but it cannot be used, by itself, to Hide.
² - The Concealment granted by a shield applies only against ranged attacks and cannot be used to Hide.
³ - A Tower Shield can be used to grant Total Cover for 1 round at the cost of a move action. Although your Tower Shield grants you Total Cover, stopping most creatures from attacking you, a creature may still attack your Tower Shield.

Masterwork Equipment
Adding the Masterwork quality to a weapon or armor gives it an enhancement bonus (to attack and damage for weapons; to AC and max dex for armor) and costs extra GP as follows:

+1 - 1000gp
+2 - 6000gp
+3 - 13000gp
+4 - 24000gp
+5 - 35000gp

For each +1 enhancement bonus, increase the Craft DC of a given weapon or armor by 4. Crafting Masterwork items requires only as much additional time over their normal counterparts as 1/10 the GP value of the enhancement bonus.

Masterwork equipment also has a number of enchant slots equal to the enhancement bonus, for example, a +3 Longsword would have three enchant slots.

Masterwork weapons, despite having an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, are not magic weapons and do not overcome DR/magic. Likewise, they cannot hurt incorporeal creatures.

Masterwork armor also reduces the armor check penalty of the worn armor by an amount equal to the enhancement bonus.

Magic Equipment
Magical properties may be added to any masterwork weapon or armor, taking up one of the item's enchant slots for each property added, by spending an amount of gold equal to the the property's effective enhancement bonus. Magical properties may be suppressed by a Dispel Magic effect (check each property separately), or removed entirely by a Break Enchantment effect (1 casting for each property).

A weapon or armor with one or more magical properties is considered a magic item. Any effect generated by a magic weapon property is considered a spell-like ability and is subject to Spell Resistance. The wielder of a magic weapon checks against SR using his character level as his effective caster level, or his actual caster level, whichever is higher.

The wielder of a magic weapon checks SR only once for each property. If he successfully penetrates a creature's SR, his property always effects that creature. If he fails to penetrate a creature's SR, his property never effects that creature.

To add a magical property to a weapon or armor a character must possess the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat.

There is no ceiling to the total effective enhancement bonus an item may have (typically non-Epic characters aren't allowed to have items better than +10, but that doesn't apply to these rules).

Magical Properties

Spoiler

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:02 PM

Reserved for Combat Revisions.

Fighting With Two Weapons
While wielding a weapon in your main-hand and a weapon in your off-hand, whenever you make an attack with the weapon in your main-hand you may also make an attack with the weapon in your off-hand at the same attack bonus (or vise versa). If you do, the attacks suffer a penalty to their attack rolls based on the descriptor of the weapon and the hand that it is in. This may be done a maximum number of times per round equal to your Dexterity bonus.

A [Main-Hand] weapon used to attack in this way suffers a -2 penalty to its attack roll, an [Off-Hand] weapon used to attack in this way suffers a -2 penalty if wielded in the off-hand and no penalty if wielded in the main-hand.

Grappling
Grappling is now the purview of the Grab special attack. In place of a normal attack in any attack action, a character may attempt a Grab attack. This is a melee touch attack and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If it succeeds, then, in the same action, the Grabbing character may attempt any of the following:

Hold
Pull
Push

Hold is your traditional grappling maneuver, and if successful, then the held character cannot move for 1 round, unless you are also moved.

Pull/Push are replacements for both Bull Rush and for forcing movement in a traditional grapple. If successful you move the Pulled/Pushed character in a desired direction. You may follow them if you wish, but only if you use your own move action.

Hold, Pull, and Push are all resolved as opposed Strength checks. A creature must have at least one free hand (or similar appendage) to use the Grab special attack and all related options.

Sunder
You can use an attack to strike any item or piece of equipment a creature is holding or wearing, or even to destroy a creature's natural weapons, rather than strike the creature itself. To do this, simply make an attack roll against the object's AC (usually 10 + size modifier + wielder's Dexterity). A [Two-Handed] weapon gets a +2 bonus to this attack roll, while an [Off-Hand] weapon suffers a -2 penalty. This does not provoke opportunity attacks. If your attack roll succeeds, roll damage against the object, remembering to apply the object's Hardness (if any).

If you attack a creature's worn armor, instead you make an attack roll against the creature's normal AC, but ignoring its armor bonus. If successful you deal damage to the worn armor (after Hardness). Half the damage you dealt to the armor is also dealt to the creature wearing it as bludgeoning damage.

A Sunder attack against a natural weapon works slightly differently. Instead of attacking an object's AC, you attack the creature's standard AC and suffer a -4 penalty to your attack roll. A [Finesse] weapon gets a +2 bonus to this attack roll, while a [Heavy] weapon suffers an additional -2 penalty. If successful you deal damage both to the creature and to its weapon in equal amounts. If your attack misses, this provokes an opportunity attack from the creature whose natural weapon you attempted to Sunder.

Natural Weapon Hit Points:

Creature Size Hit Points
Fine
1
Diminutive
1
Tiny
2
Small
2
Medium
4
Large
8
Huge
12
Gargantuan
20
Colossal
32

Half of a creature's natural armor bonus is treated as the "effective Hardness" of any of that creature's natural weapons. Subtract a natural weapon's "effective Hardness" from the damage dealt to it to determine when and if you destroy the weapon.

Size Modifiers
(Not happy with this yet. Very much a work in progress.)

Spoiler

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:06 PM

Reserved for additional options.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:14 PM

Reserved just in case.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 03:21 PM

Hit Dice, Creature Level, and Assorted Bonuses
HD no longer carries any special weight as far as a creature's basic chassis, or Effective Character Level for that matter. A creature can have 30 HD and still be a 1st level Character, theoretically speaking. Total HD has no effect on a creature's Base Attack Bonus, Base Save Bonuses, or Skill Points per level.

Creature Level is the better indication of a creature's basic chassis, and combined with character class (or racial class, as the case may be), gives a creature it's basic chassis bonuses.

For example, an Ogre is a 3rd level creature with "Medium" Base Attack Bonus (+3/4 per levels), "Good" Base Fort Bonus (+2 at 1st level + 1/2 levels), "Poor" Base Ref Bonus (+1/3 levels), "Poor" Base Will Bonus (+1/3 levels), and "Poor" Skill Points Per Level (2 + Int per level). It has 4 HD, 3 of which were obtained through its racial class, the fourth because of its Toughness feat. Its total HD have no effect on its Creature Level or its base bonuses or skill points.

Another example (this one with changes made because of the new rules): a Tendriculos is a 6th level creature with 8 HD (6 of which were obtained through its racial class, the last two because of its Toughness feats), and "Poor" BAB, "Medium" Fort, "Poor" Ref, "Poor" Will, and "Poor" Skill Points Per Level. This gives it a Base Attack Bonus of +3, a Base Fort Bonus of +3, a Base Reflex Bonus of +2, a Base Will Bonus of +2, and 6 skill points (-4 Int modifier, minimum 1 skill point per level).

~~~

The monster types/subtypes rules would need to be changed quite a bit, especially cosmetically, to fit these new rules, but I think the changes will make the game a lot more friendly to martial-type characters in the end. It also helps a DM to design monsters and encounters more easily, as these rules can serve as a replacement for Challenge Rating (or at least as as good guide to better inform encounter CR). A monster's Creature Level will balance out its core bonuses, and its HP doesn't matter as much. Now Undead and Constructs don't necessarily need to have inflated HD to be a threat, and big baddies with lots of HP aren't necessarily epic level Fighters either! Yay?

Revised Creature Type Rules

Aberration Type
HD: 1d8
Base Attack Bonus: Average
Base Fort Save: Average
Base Ref Save: Average
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Fortification (25%), Still Mind (50%).

Class Skills (2 + Int): Even Aberrations that are Mindless get 2 skill points per level and have the following class skills - Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival, Swim, and Tumble.

Animal Type
HD: 1d6
Base Attack Bonus: Average
Base Fort Save: Good
Base Ref Save: Good
Base Will Save: Poor

Racial Traits: Low-Light Vision, Scent.

Class Skills (4 + Int): Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Perform (Tricks), Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and Swim.

Construct Type
HD: 1d10
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Poor
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Poor

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Fortification (25%), Low-Light Vision, Non-Living (Immune to any effect that only affects living creatures). Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep and are immune to any effects that put the Construct to sleep or that require the Construct to breathe or eat.

Class Skills (4 + Int): Any ten, chosen by the Construct's creator (or by the Construct itself if has no specific creator and if it is Intelligent enough to do so).

Dragon Type
HD: 1d10
Base Attack Bonus: Average
Base Fort Save: Good
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Breath Weapon, Darkvision 120ft, Frightful Presence, Scent, Superior Low-Light Vision, Tongues, Tremorsense 60ft.

Class Skills (6 + Int): Any four (unique to variety) + Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Perform (Any), Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, and Use Magic Device.

Elemental Type
HD: 1d10
Base Attack Bonus: Average
Base Fort Save: Good
Base Ref Save: Good
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Darkvision 120ft, Fortification (50%), Still Mind (50%), Superior Low-Light Vision, Tongues.

Class Skills (4 + Int): Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform (Any), Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival.

Fey Type
HD: 1d4
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Poor
Base Ref Save: Good
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Low-Light Vision.

Class Skills (6 + Int): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Perform (Any), Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Swim, Tumble, and Use Magic Device.

Humanoid Type
HD: 1d4
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Poor
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Poor

Racial Traits: None.

Class Skills (2 + Int): Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Jump, Listen, Profession, Spot, and Swim.

Ooze Type
HD: 1d12
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Good
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Poor

Racial Traits: Blind, Blindsight 60ft, Fortification (50%). Oozes do not breathe or sleep and are immune to any effects that put the Ooze to sleep or that require the Ooze to breathe.

Class Skills (2 + Int): None (Many Oozes are Mindless and do not get skill points or feats).

Outsider Type
HD: 1d6
Base Attack Bonus: Average
Base Fort Save: Average
Base Ref Save: Average
Base Will Save: Average

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Fortification (25%), Still Mind (25%).

Class Skills (6 + Int): Any twelve of the Outsider's choice + Knowledge (The Planes).

Plant Type
HD: 1d10
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Good
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Fortification (25%), Photosynthesis (like Regeneration 1/cold or fire, but Plants require 1 hour in direct sunlight to convert nonlethal damage or to reattach parts of their body), Still Mind (50%).

Class Skills (4 + Int): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Open Lock, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot, and Survival.

Undead Type
HD: 1d8
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Poor
Base Ref Save: Poor
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Fortification (25%), Non-Living (Immune to any effect that only affects living creatures), Still Mind (50%). Undead do not breathe or sleep and are immune to any effects that put the Undead to sleep or that require the Undead to breathe.

Class Skills (2 + Int): None (Many Undead are Mindless and do not gain skill points or feats).

Vermin Type
HD: 1d6
Base Attack Bonus: Poor
Base Fort Save: Poor
Base Ref Save: Good
Base Will Save: Good

Racial Traits: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Still Mind (50%), Tremorsense 120ft.

Class Skills (2 + Int): Even Vermin that are Mindless get 2 skill points per level and have the following class skills - Balance, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Move Silently, Survival, and Swim.

Types Not Appearing in this Film: Giant, Magical Beast, and Monstrous Humanoid. My thoughts here:

1) The only difference between Magical Beasts and Animals is that Magical Beasts often have supernatural abilities and are allowed to have Intelligences higher than 3. Well, why not allow Animals to have Intelligences of whatever the creator wants, and add magic and toughness through templates or something?

2) The only difference between Giants/Monstrous Humanoids and Humanoids is size and toughness. So... again, add the toughness through templates or whatever, and allow Humanoids to be of any size.

Random Creature Conversion
Nightmare
Type/Level: Outsider 5
Size: Large
Hit Points: 45 (5d8 + 1d8 + 18)

Base Attack Bonus: +3
Base Fort Save: +3
Base Ref Save: +3
Base Will Save: +3

Initiative: +4
Armor Class: 21 (10 + 2 dex + 2 dodge + 8 natural - 1 size), Touch 13, Flat-Footed 17
Saving Throws: Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +4
Speed: 60ft (12 squares), or Fly 30ft (6 squares, Good maneuverability)

Attacks: Unarmed Strike (Hooves) +6 melee or +4/+4 melee (1d4+4 plus 1d6 fire), Unarmed Strike (Bite) +6 (1d4+4)
Space/Reach: 10ft/5ft.
Special Features: Astral Projection, Darkvision 60ft, Etherealness, Flaming Hooves, Fortification (25%), Smoke, and Still Mind (25%).

Abilities: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 13
Skills: Intimidate +9, Knowledge (The Planes) +8, Listen +9, Sense Motive +9, Spot +9, Survival +9
Feats: Toughness^B, Lightning Reflexes, Run

Environment: Any (except Consecrated areas).
Organization: Solitary (or with Rider)
Treasure: None (or Standard w/Rider)
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil

bobthe6th · 08-15-2012, 04:33 PM

so, will fighting styles come from feats, or from specific classes? or are they to be assumed to come with a high base attack bonus?

still, this looks very interesting, and was subscribed a minute after you started posting it.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthe6th

so, will fighting styles come from feats, or from specific classes? or are they to be assumed to come with a high base attack bonus?

still, this looks very interesting, and was subscribed a minute after you started posting it.

The system I am considering running with operates as follows:

There is an "entry" feat for each Fighting Style which provides characters with the Stance associated with the Fighting Style, the Key Skill, and one or two 1st level maneuvers. From there, additional maneuvers will be learned via the Style Study feat (which requires the "entry" feat and will grant one or two maneuvers of any levels you currently qualify for).

Base Attack Bonus is used in place of Initiator level for any of the qualification or level-dependent effects. So, a Barbarian that takes the Novice Desert Wind feat, for example, will gain the benefit of the Desert Wind Stance (whatever that will be), the Tumble skill (as well as some automatic minimum ranks), and one or two 1st level Desert Wind maneuvers. If he later (say at 6th level), takes the Style Study feat, choosing Desert Wind, he will be able to pick up any one or two Desert Wind maneuvers up to 3rd level (because of his +6 BAB).

In this way, Fighters even before being rewritten, are undisputed masters of Fighting Styles, as they can use their bonus feats to pick up large swathes of Style feats and Style Studies for extra maneuvers.

SheepInDisguise · 08-15-2012, 05:02 PM

Great work, especially with the new BAB rules. I do have a few things to say.

First, are you going to give the re-worked PHB classes maneuvers? Are you going to do a re-work of the ToB classes, or just the PHB classes?

Quote:

Unarmed Strike (Ex): A Barbarian deals additional damage with his Unarmed Strike as outlined in the table above, and may deal lethal damage with his Unarmed Strike at his option. He is treated for all purposes as though he possessed the Improved Unarmed Strike feat (including the feat's benefit).

Why not just give them improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat?

Quote:

Damage Resistance (Ex):

I would hope that even levels are levels where you get new maneuvers, as otherwise they would be very boring on these levels. Also, could you clear up when it overlaps and when it doesn't?

Quote:

This ability acts simultaneously as Damage Reduction and Energy Resistance and does not stack with other forms of DR or ER, but overlaps (or is overlapped) on a case-by-case basis.

Also, DR/10 seems a pretty boring capstone.

----------

Paladin:

Quote:

Alignment: Any

I assume this is a mistake.

Quote:

The Knight's Code

A lot of players do not like codes, even if it doesn't really do much. They feel it restricts roleplay and tells them how to play there classes (or causes the DM to).The class feature only works to detriment and weaken the class. Perhaps you should get a bonus if you go a long time without breaking the code? Also, you could have a list of options of restrictions that a player could choose.

Quote:

A Paladin never strikes a flat-footed opponent. Instead, she allows her foes to ready themselves before attacking.

This only reminds me of this.

Quote:

Knight's Challenge (Ex): ........For remainder of the encounter, the Paladin gains a bonus to attack and damage rolls against the designated creature as if it were an Evil-aligned creature,

And if they are already evil?

bobthe6th · 08-15-2012, 05:08 PM

seems that would entail re writing feats as a whole... as most classes will spend their 7 feats on this, or have to spend feats on required things(like power attack, or prestige feat taxes)... And mean anyone but a fighter gets cool things once per three levels, while the stuff progresses once every 2.

wouldn't it be better to make the style and study feats progress based on BAB, so even with one feat and a full BAB you get cool things every other level. also, it would allow for a few non study feats in a build.

Eldan · 08-15-2012, 05:23 PM

I quite like what I see so far, though I agree that capstones might be more interesting.

Will you also do a monk/swordsage-like class? A lightly armoured master of many styles?

Morph Bark · 08-15-2012, 05:41 PM

Is this in a way also meant to replace the Warrior's Way?

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise

First, are you going to give the re-worked PHB classes maneuvers?

At this point in time, my stance on that is, no, none of them will inherently possess maneuvers. All maneuvers will be obtained via feats. More on that later.

Quote:

Are you going to do a re-work of the ToB classes, or just the PHB classes?

I will only be re-working the Barbarian, the Fighter, and the Paladin for the time being.

Quote:

I would hope that even levels are levels where you get new maneuvers, as otherwise they would be very boring on these levels. Also, could you clear up when it overlaps and when it doesn't?

I wasn't very clear on that was I? The intention is that, for example, if you were a 4th level Barbarian and had Damage Resistance 2/-- as well as Fire Resistance 5 and you were hit by an attack that dealt you 12 bludgeoning damage and 10 fire damage, your Damage Resistance 2/-- would reduce the bludgeoning by 2, but not the fire damage, because that part of your resistance is overlapped by your superior Fire Resistance. I should have probably just said that it doesn't stack with other forms of Damage Reduction and Energy Resistance you have.

Quote:

I assume this is a mistake.

Yes. One that has been since edited.

Quote:

Also, you could have a list of options of restrictions that a player could choose.

This seems like a good idea, but I'm not too good at coming up with these sorts of things (I just retrofitted these from the PHB2 Knight class). Perhaps someone could help me out here with "restriction options?"

Quote:

And if they are already evil?

Then nothing especially awesome happens, other than they may fail the save and be forced to attack you and only you with only melee attacks. Still not too shabby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthe6th

seems that would entail re writing feats as a whole... as most classes will spend their 7 feats on this, or have to spend feats on required things(like power attack, or prestige feat taxes)... And mean anyone but a fighter gets cool things once per three levels, while the stuff progresses once every 2.

Well:

a) I do plan on doing some feat rewriting as I did in The Warrior's Way (perhaps with some more order and organization this time).

b) Note that the new Barbarian is significantly cooler than the old Barbarian and enjoys modest upgrades in offense, defense, and utility. The Paladin will be similarly bumped in usability. They aren't "forced" to turn to maneuvers to be playable in their current renditions.

c) The model I am currently planning is that the entry-level feat offers a Tome-style scaling Stance and a single 1st level maneuver. Beyond that Style Study grants any two maneuvers chosen from Styles that you have the initial entry feat for. So, consider, a Barbarian that spends all seven of his feats on Desert Wind has an awesome Stance AND 13 maneuvers known and 13 "maneuvers readied" (since in these rules you start each encounter with all known maneuvers available). He's spent all of his level feats to be a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. That seems to be a fair trade-off to me.

Quote:

wouldn't it be better to make the style and study feats progress based on BAB, so even with one feat and a full BAB you get cool things every other level. also, it would allow for a few non study feats in a build.

I have considered it, but it seems like too much power to give to any one feat. I don't want players taking the Desert Wind feat at 1st level and automatically obtaining Inferno Blast at BAB +17. One feat shouldn't scale that much, in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldan

Will you also do a monk/swordsage-like class? A lightly armoured master of many styles?

That is unlikely, if only because the way I hope to design the Style feats and the Fighter class will, hopefully, allow the Fighter class to fill that niche. A properly built Fighter should work well lightly armored and will be capable of accumulating 30+ maneuvers known with ease.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph Bark

Is this in a way also meant to replace the Warrior's Way?

Not exactly. I suppose you can look at it like that, from a certain perspective. But this is built on entirely different design principles and goals.

Eldan · 08-15-2012, 06:14 PM

You might perhaps wish to specify the Barbarian's mind blank as only protecting against hostile mind-affecting effects. Otherwise, he'd be unable to profit from quite a list of goodies that are also mind-affecting, like half the bard's buffs, which I don't think is the idea here.

Ziegander · 08-15-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldan

You might perhaps wish to specify the Barbarian's mind blank as only protecting against hostile mind-affecting effects. Otherwise, he'd be unable to profit from quite a list of goodies that are also mind-affecting, like half the bard's buffs, which I don't think is the idea here.

Good point.

bobthe6th · 08-15-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

a) I do plan on doing some feat rewriting as I did in The Warrior's Way (perhaps with some more order and organization this time).

they would have to be pretty badass, to match 2 maneuvers readied/known. as I said, you will be faced with the choice of a free gestalt, or some eh abilities. It means that between levels you won't have properly scaling between levels.

Quote:

b) Note that the new Barbarian is significantly cooler than the old Barbarian and enjoys modest upgrades in offense, defense, and utility. The Paladin will be similarly bumped in usability. They aren't "forced" to turn to maneuvers to be playable in their current renditions.

yes, but it still needs power attack(that should be a class feature). which pushes manuvers to third level, baring a feat tax. manuvers are really cool, I don't see why they should be so limited

Quote:

c) The model I am currently planning is that the entry-level feat offers a Tome-style scaling Stance and a single 1st level maneuver. Beyond that Style Study grants any two maneuvers chosen from Styles that you have the initial entry feat for. So, consider, a Barbarian that spends all seven of his feats on Desert Wind has an awesome Stance AND 13 maneuvers known and 13 "maneuvers readied" (since in these rules you start each encounter with all known maneuvers available). He's spent all of his level feats to be a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. That seems to be a fair trade-off to me.

maneuvers are not known for scaling well, while a good feat should. the stance sounds ok ish...

Quote:

I have considered it, but it seems like too much power to give to any one feat. I don't want players taking the Desert Wind feat at 1st level and automatically obtaining Inferno Blast at BAB +17. One feat shouldn't scale that much, in my opinion.

but then they take a feat at 18, you get it anyways.

Knaight · 08-15-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziegander

c) The model I am currently planning is that the entry-level feat offers a Tome-style scaling Stance and a single 1st level maneuver. Beyond that Style Study grants any two maneuvers chosen from Styles that you have the initial entry feat for. So, consider, a Barbarian that spends all seven of his feats on Desert Wind has an awesome Stance AND 13 maneuvers known and 13 "maneuvers readied" (since in these rules you start each encounter with all known maneuvers available). He's spent all of his level feats to be a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. That seems to be a fair trade-off to me.

That's nowhere near a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. For one, the warblade gradually replaces their manuevers, meaning their 13 manuevers are probably all useful, rather than containing low level manuevers that aren't worth much. Being able to initiate a manuever with every attack probably removes this issue, but it does prevent them from being equivalent. Secondly, the warblade also has quite a few class features, some of which are really nice (having two stances at once? Yes please), and these don't come up.

What this means is not that they need maneuvers - they can clearly operate without them. However, it does mean that they should probably get more maneuvers with the feat. This Barbarian/Warblade gestalt doesn't even have power attack, so that right there greatly reduces the utility of many of these manuevers.

Ziegander · 08-16-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthe6th

they would have to be pretty badass, to match 2 maneuvers readied/known.

Well, we shall see.

Quote:

yes, but it still needs power attack(that should be a class feature).

I'll consider writing Combat Expertise and Power Attack into the Base Attack Bonus revision as automatic options.

Quote:

maneuvers are not known for scaling well, while a good feat should. the stance sounds ok ish...

Sorry, when I mentioned Tome-style scaling effects earlier, I realized only later that reference was entirely unclear in the context of this thread. What I meant was stuff like this.

I've put up a couple of the "Training" feats which open up access to the higher level maneuvers. I think they're pretty awesome. Maybe way too awesome. Let me know what you think.

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but then they take a feat at 18, you get it anyways.

That doesn't bother me so much, because at least then there's a two feat investment.

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Originally Posted by Knaight

That's nowhere near a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. For one, the warblade gradually replaces their manuevers, meaning their 13 manuevers are probably all useful, rather than containing low level manuevers that aren't worth much. Being able to initiate a manuever with every attack probably removes this issue, but it does prevent them from being equivalent. Secondly, the warblade also has quite a few class features, some of which are really nice (having two stances at once? Yes please), and these don't come up.

Yes, I know it's not exactly equivalent to a Barbarian/Warblade gestalt. But it is roughly equivalent, so let's not get overly technical.

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What this means is not that they need maneuvers - they can clearly operate without them. However, it does mean that they should probably get more maneuvers with the feat. This Barbarian/Warblade gestalt doesn't even have power attack, so that right there greatly reduces the utility of many of these manuevers.

What is all of this Power Attack worship about? The PHB Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin "need" Power Attack, because all they can do is damage stuff, and without Power Attack they can't even do a meaningful amount of damage to stuff before they get torn to shreds by monsters that deal lots of damage with lots of attacks per round.

Outside of core, the Barbarian, Fighter, and Paladin all get lots of interesting options, feats, ACFs, and other things that remove this "need" for Power Attack.

A Warblade? A Warblade never needed Power Attack, much less a Barbarian/Warblade pseudo-gestalt. How does forgoing Power Attack diminish the utility of maneuvers?

Anyway, I'm hoping to get feedback on the two Training feats I put up to see what people think of how they operate at the moment. If people hate them with a passion, then I should probably scrap that idea and go in another direction. If people think they're awesome, then I can go ahead and write the rest of them and get to some maneuver descriptions.

Knaight · 08-16-2012, 12:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

A Warblade? A Warblade never needed Power Attack, much less a Barbarian/Warblade pseudo-gestalt. How does forgoing Power Attack diminish the utility of maneuvers?

Some maneuvers are immensely useful for landing a hit, but still need damage supplemented. If you're firing off a touch attack, you can power attach for a huge amount and still reliably hit - and there is a maneuver that strikes as a touch attack.

Ziegander · 08-16-2012, 12:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Knaight

Some maneuvers are immensely useful for landing a hit, but still need damage supplemented. If you're firing off a touch attack, you can power attach for a huge amount and still reliably hit - and there is a maneuver that strikes as a touch attack.

And if you choose to take the Emerald Razor maneuver, and if I decide to leave it as a Strike, and if you think that you need to deal more damage with your Emerald Razor maneuver, then, maybe you should forgo one of the 6 feats you're spending on maneuvers to pick up the Power Attack feat.

Are we seriously so wrapped up in the "melee without Power Attack is unplayable" mentality that you think a Barbarian charge-pouncing a guy with Strike of Perfect Clarity on his first attack, Finishing Move on his 2nd attack, Dazing Strike on his 3rd attack, and Disarming Strike on his 4th attack (all at full attack bonus) is losing ANY utility because he decided not to take Power Attack?

bobthe6th · 08-16-2012, 12:55 PM

oh, you meant frank and K style... acceptable. those are good enough to chose between a scaling bonus or some manuvers.

as for the feats... they are very nice. I mean very, very nice. They do give very cool options in combat, before you throw in maneuvers. I approve.

Eldan · 08-16-2012, 01:59 PM

It would be more effort, but how about making more specific style feats?

Make some 7-9 feats for every style, and have each feat give a strike, a boost, counter or stance, and some other more general benefit? That would solve a bit of the feat problem.

Nihilarian · 08-16-2012, 03:08 PM

Suddenly gishes are awesome.

Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 3/Fighter 1

Caster Level 17
BAB 17

9th level spells, 9th level maneuvers. I'm sure there are similar combo's for other casters.

It's interesting, but you should be aware of the ramifications of making the initiator level something so (relatively) easy to boost.

Eldan · 08-16-2012, 03:11 PM

Hm. That is a bit of a problem. Classes with high BAB and good class features, i.e. gishes, get everything this ToB system gets, plus spells.

Nihilarian · 08-16-2012, 03:47 PM

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think this might even be more broken than spellcasting. I haven't done the math, but can you imagine using Time Stands Still, then using up to 8 strikes (maximum levels: 9, 8, 5, 3 for each set if you have a full BAB)? Depending on how the feats and the fighter class are worded, you might even be able to use 2 9th level strikes to do so. That sounds freaking ridiculous.

Also, how does TWF work in this system?

Eldan · 08-16-2012, 03:51 PM

Eh. Still not as broken as spells.

Yes, you can kill any given enemy in a round, probably. So can many things.

Spells are broken because they do so many things besides killing.

If everyone has access to it, the general power level will, however, be elevated. Many monsters, especially, will become basically useless.