She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[Amechra]

Cut that number to a 9th; overlapping bubbles don't all generate energy, only the newest one does for any light in that area.

[Eldan]

One of my level six players is currently trying to build a sword made entirely from red filters. It would be charged by immersing it in lava.

That should be pretty good for the level 6 challenge. I'm ruling it as dealing 2d6 fire damage, and extra on a critical.

[Orderic]

Interesting idea for a sword. However, all of the required heat has to be in place before the last filter is constructed, otherwise the space between the filters will always be the same temperature.

[Eldan]

I think the idea was that there would be a cube of six filters, one of which could be moved to the side to open the cube, for recharging. It will probably be closer to a mace or warhammer than to a sword.

[General Patton]

If the inside of the sword is a closed space, then you can just super-heat the inside before adding the last filter. You'll never lose any of that heat when you swing it through someone, it'll steal everything back when you remove it from them. If you create some kind of facility to separate all the heat from thousands of gallons of lava, encase the heat in red filters and find a way to make it come out of a portal tethered to a handle, you've created a lightsaber.

[Eldan]

You don't need the portal. The filters can just go through someone.

[General Patton]

I meant that the red box full o' heat can slide in and out of the handle via portal so that you can sheathe it when you're done, and pretend you're a sith.

[Eldan]

Ah, right. Yes, that would be cool.

[Omnicrat]

Originally Posted by Eldan

If you combined several of those light rays with black filters, you could build a kind of laser semaphore. Now nothing is stopping you from building the internet.

Internet, television, radio, and telephone (hereafter refereed to as the hypernet) are easy once you get YGGD 241 and HEUR 328. This does assume overlapping intelligent cicuits that overlap can communicate with one another. If not it will cost a little more, but this is already something only the wealthiest nobles or most advanced societies would have.

1) create a central hub (if you can, do so on a demiplane)
2) in the central hub, create a massive intelligent cicuit
3) fill your hub with a power source (possibly my aforementioned solar power source if that stays in)
4) create spell outputs for clairvoyance and clairaudiance (giving sensory perception to the hub), Ghost sound, hallucinatory terrain, legend lore, illusory wall, several of major image and any other
5) create as many connected semispaces to the hub as you want hypernet links, have each space be locked as small as possible and have the terminus end attached to... I don't know, a shiny rock? It doesn't really matter.
6) sell these along with alchemetric silver spell outputs for clairvoyance and clairaudiance (giving sensory perception to intelligent circuits), Ghost sound, hallucinatory terrain, illusory wall, several of major image, and any other spell outputs you want to include in the hypernet along with an intelligent circuit filling the hypernet room.
7) preform television and radio show episodes in the hub using the spell outputs found on terminus ends of links or with performers while the the hub circuit is watching, allowing the hub to communicate how to cast the illusions to replicate the shows on terminus ends; allow people to "upload"
there own shows for the viewing pleasure of uploads; allow one person with a terminus to communicate with another person with a terminus, either only vocally or with a total illusory projection; read all books to the hub, allowing it to transmit the information from said books to termini who request them.

Now, this will cost millions of gp, but its still all that stuff rolled into one.

[Omnicrat]

Originally Posted by Amechra

Alright, a challenge, everyone; what is the coolest device you can make at level, say, 6, assuming that you are the highest level Grammarist in the world?

I can make a room where I fire eldrich blasts at a silver input and can replicate any spell of level 3 or lower.

A weapon made completely out of heat or cold with no blade.

Nigh indestructible tin armor plating for buildings and walls.

Before spell casting stopped working from one side of a YGGD 101 portal to the other, I could also make portable versions of the aforementioned spell room with a maximum of 7 outputs.

[Omnicrat]

Originally Posted by Amechra

Cut that number to a 9th; overlapping bubbles don't all generate energy, only the newest one does for any light in that area.

None of those input bubbles overlap. they all only fill up one 5 foot square

[Omnicrat]

Also, Kellus, did you have to break all my things?

Can't you at least add new Doctorate level principles that let you cast spells through semispaces and have totally semispaced engines that still work and stuff like that?

Maybe just a special 16th principle at level 20 or something for each specialty?

[jojolagger]

Originally Posted by Amechra

Alright, a challenge, everyone; what is the coolest device you can make at level, say, 6, assuming that you are the highest level Grammarist in the world?

Challenge Accepted.

Spoiler

I'm further assuming no access to help from other grammarist for production. I only need 5 principles. That said, there are a few Magisterial Principles that would add a lot.

A WWII era tank in 21 days. Thank you Spectroconstruction.

ALCH 101 with all properties applied to the fullest. Assuming +10 diplo, that's +15 hp/inch, +6 hardness, 1/3 fire and cold damage, +7.5 break DC.

ARCD 101 has a large silver inputs forming a bubble around the outside, meaning a large number of chances to catch and cancel incoming spells. (assuming E6, a really good caster would have a .9^X chance of failing to beat all the SR's). The bubbles can be layered by shaping the bubbles if need be. There will also be small bubbles inside, so magical occupants can power the magitek systems.
Further more, we'll have many silver outs on the same lump of silver. As many spells as possible will be loaded into those, the first orders of business being an ammo creation spell, and possibly animate object to avoid fuel costs, though I am sure Minor creation could produce fuel aplenty.

BIOY 101 offers me nothing at this point, and will be ignored.

ELDK 101 offers me me nothing at this point, why would I make a crappy engine when I have a working tank? Given the chance at a single Magisterial principle for further upgrades, the ascending engine is a strong choice.

HEUR 101 is really important. It channels energy from the outer defense field and charging points to the spellnode, and allows for someone with +1 in auto-hypnosis to control the spellnode. By preparing the circuit that makes logical decisions for the spellnode at 1, anyone should be able to command it from within the tank.

IMCH 101 offers me nothing. However IMCH 267 would also be a strong contender if I we to have one Magisterial principle. Because Invisible tank or flying tank. Invisible seems likely to win so that I don't have to include the other stuff that would be needed to run the flying tank (daylight production, orthogonal engines.)

KALD 101 allows for true fireball immunity, by covering the tank in red filters, and also allows yellow filters to allow immunity to arrows, stones, bolt, and most siege weapons. Some shenanigans would be needed for total protection of the tank while still allowing the gun to be fired, but the gun could be done away with, and a unseen servant could easily shift the anchor of the filter to allow firing.

YGGD 101 offers little, but the semi-spaces should help with comfortably fitting the crew inside for long periods, along with increasing ammo/fuel/food storage abilities. The third big contender for a Magisterial principle would be YGGD 241, as it would dramatically increase the size available inside the tank, potentially allowing for a larger crew (meaning more ebbs of magic), or private rooms with a small crew.

Furthermore, there will fallback systems of Silver in/out links that cast specific spells. Namely, Minor Creation, create food and drink, mending, make whole, Repair X damage, whatever spell is used to generate ammo, and a raw silver out to act as a backup cannon.

The Net result of this is a Tiger II, with immunity to fire and most weapons, object resistances, massive health and hardness, access to almost every spell in existence, a maximum speed of 225 ft/round, Theoretically indefinite runtime, and a very good chance of ignoring magic. Plus, If we can set it up right, the circuit could counterspell anything that bypasses the SR.
Please note the dual machine guns and heavy cannon, all of which can effectively engage at 2000 ft.

I wish to note that with magic-psionics transparency, Minor Creation is available at level 1, meaning a large amount of fuel can be produced with 1 ebb.

Please note that a team of 3 level 1 warlocks could run the tank until the end of time. The Ideal selection would be me, the level 6 grammarist, and 4 of the most powerful people I can find with access to limitless magic. Assuming that is 4 grammarists of 4th or 5th level, we generate up to 6 ebbs a round after accounting for the loss from wood outs weakening the charge, Ideally, they'd all be warforged for 24 hour awareness..

Further more, by firing at it's own shields (using a spell with a 1 round delay) to charge, we can effectively store energy sans battery at the cost of 1 ebb/round. We generate 6 ebbs per round. I think that counts as winning.

Spoilered due to wall of text

TL:DR

Spoiler

I made a super magitek tank that never runs out of fuel, can fire forever, and can easily support its crew of 5 up to and beyond their natural time of death.

Spoilered for those who don't just want the summary.

[Quester]

Originally Posted by Kellus

So it starts off with a radius of the normal bubble size for the net, and extra ebbs can advance the bubble size beyond that. You're absolutely right that you could probably set up a machine that uses sets of gold input and output to make some free energy, but it's not quite as simple as just setting the gold output to 500ft. or something.


EDIT: I'm sorry, I was looking back over your post, and I'm actually not sure whether you thought that the bubble of light was increasable with extra ebbs, or if you thought that the radius could arbitrarily be decided when you set it up. If the former, that is indeed what's intended. Sorry if I misinterpreted

Extra ebbs expand a golden transformer's light beyond its normal bubble, but as it is written you can still prepare the same output multiple times to get a larger radius for golden transformers, and it sounds like the light comes from the entire inside bubble, not from the center of the bubble.

Does the bubble of darkness made by a golden input create shade?

Originally Posted by jojolagger

I made a super magitek tank that never runs out of fuel, can fire forever, and can easily support its crew of 5 up to and beyond their natural time of death.

I... I think you just broke warfare. This mean people or creatures with at-will spell like abilities are more useful in battle as controllable, endless batteries than soldiers.

[Amechra]

Originally Posted by Omnicrat

None of those input bubbles overlap. they all only fill up one 5 foot square

Wrong; it's a 5' radius bubble. It fills a lot more than a single 5' square.

EDIT: Then I remembered that you can have bubbles fill up less space than normal when making them. Carry on, citizen.

And I like the tank.

[jojolagger]

Originally Posted by Quester

I... I think you just broke warfare. This mean people or creatures with at-will spell like abilities are more useful in battle as controllable, endless batteries than soldiers.

Actually, having them as rational beings with the ability to run the tank is also very important.
Also, enchant the tank cannons with distance. By assuming effective range is anywhere where you get less than -2 to hit from range, then the range increment of the tanks weapons would be something like 1000 ft., 2000 after distance. Meaning a good or luck shot can hit someone a mile away.

Plus, why can't we just use sending between AI nodes to make the internet?
If we assume 100 possible characters, and an average of 5 characters per word sending is awesome for this.

[Omnicrat]

Can one use a spell output to cast spells into the creation of a new output?

[Quester]

Originally Posted by jojolagger

Actually, having them as rational beings with the ability to run the tank is also very important.
Also, enchant the tank cannons with distance. By assuming effective range is anywhere where you get less than -2 to hit from range, then the range increment of the tanks weapons would be something like 1000 ft., 2000 after distance. Meaning a good or luck shot can hit someone a mile away.

Plus, why can't we just use sending between AI nodes to make the internet?
If we assume 100 possible characters, and an average of 5 characters per word sending is awesome for this.

Darn, here I was looking forward to dehumanizing warlocks.

Also sending targets a creature, would an AI node count as one? If not you could just use a circuited biollurgical chassis. If it is a permanent telepathic could also be used for prolonged or continuous contact.

Originally Posted by Omnicrat

Can one use a spell output to cast spells into the creation of a new output?

I would think so, as long as the first spell output was able to cast the spell when the second spell output is first prepared. So a gramarist could use a spell output to make copies of it indefinitely by hand, or the spell output could be used in conjunction with HEUR 302.

As a complete side note can you eat and drink while preparing a principle? I only ask because if he could a human gramarist with the wakeful mind graph could work indefintely.

As another random question, could you put a semi-space inside another semi-space? if so infinite recursive storage, just make the opening to the interior semi-spaces as wide as the semi-space its in.

[General Patton]

I'd like to see some way to have an Exotic Intelligence mounted in a Biollurgical Chassis so that the EI can take class levels. The BC is treated as circuited for the purposes of being under the EI's control, but this allows the EI to experience the world in a meaningful way so as to develop skills and also grants it a body with which it can actually use all of its class features. I guess this would need to be a template with level adjustment.

On an unrelated note, remember that crazy EI-controlled hive of circuited BCs I described? Make those BCs as large as possible to give them maximum HD and give them the Ghost-Stitched Soul graft.

One final thing: does anyone know any good classes/builds for optimizing DR/-? I want to know who should be donating regenerated limbs to make the best Biollurgical Material.

[EdroGrimshell]

Did anyone think of the Engine that fires things as projectiles for the tank? For things immune to spells or specific energy types that'd make the tank ineffective for offense.

[Quester]

I'm pretty sure jojolagger's tank would have a mundane cannon or other weapon, seeing as he does give mention to ammo and such. I mean, mundane siege weapons are pretty powerful on their own and when your talking about a setting with extra dimensional spaces and altering base qualities of materials, gunpowder for a cannon doesn't seem to far fetched.

Also you can't use a stationary elderkinetic engine to launch things without magisterial principles.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by Quester

As a complete side note can you eat and drink while preparing a principle? I only ask because if he could a human gramarist with the wakeful mind graph could work indefintely.

Years of seeing both chemists and engineers at work seems to indicate "yes".

[Omnicrat]

Can a spell output cast into another spell output for the purpose of creation?

[Silva Stormrage]

An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts?

[Quester]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Years of seeing both chemists and engineers at work seems to indicate "yes".

Heh. I shutter to ask if other biological functions can be done while preparing a principle

Originally Posted by Omnicrat

Can a spell output cast into another spell output for the purpose of creation?

I believe so, as long as its done at the same time?

Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage

An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts?

That would an interesting situation for an adventure, a paladin striving to stop creatures form being killed, by killing said creatures.

I don't think that if you imbue a chassis with instincts it would have a soul, but one with intelligence probably would, although at that point they can take actions to protect themselves an you lose any control over them, or so I think. I also think you have to choose between instincts or intelligence but I could be wrong.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Book of Vile Darkness

The main criteria are that the creature be
alive and have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher.

So Sentience from BIOY 273 is needed.

[Amechra]

Actually...

Neither one prevents the other.

So you could make a perfectly intelligent creature that wouldn't be able to think outside of narrowly-proscribed guidelines.

[Silva Stormrage]

Originally Posted by Amechra

Actually...

Neither one prevents the other.

So you could make a perfectly intelligent creature that wouldn't be able to think outside of narrowly-proscribed guidelines.

Or the way I thought it might work an intelligent creature that has irresistible urges to do certain things when applicable. In this case, volunteer to be a sacrifice to an evil god.

[jojolagger]

Originally Posted by General Patton

One final thing: does anyone know any good classes/builds for optimizing DR/-? I want to know who should be donating regenerated limbs to make the best Biollurgical Material.

I know of an E6 build that stacks 'roll with it' from savage species in every feat slot he can, for Dr 2x/-, where x is the times the feat is taken. Heck, just make a really big HD thing and have it spend all its feats on roll with it. Grab Dr 100/- parts. Win. All you need is CON 20, toughness, and roll with it says outright that it stacks with itself.

Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell

Did anyone think of the Engine that fires things as projectiles for the tank? For things immune to spells or specific energy types that'd make the tank ineffective for offense.

Seeing as it is literally a Tiger II tank in addition to the magitek, it seemed superfluous. And it was the biggest gun used on a WWII tank.
However, as it has access to all combat spells and the raw blast option, the actual tank cannon would likely be rarely used, as a spell to produce ammo for any weapon isn't showing up. There is one for bolts, arrows, and sling bullets, but I can't find one that can do normal bullets.

[Amechra]

Of course that Tank would get annihilated by any culture using Magisterial-level tech.

And whatever counter there would be utterly destroyed by anything made with Doctorate tech.

Seriously, once you get up there, you get stuff like orbital lasers.

Or the ****ing Zerg horde.

[radmelon]

Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage

An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts?

If I'm not mistaken, you've perfectly described Thrulls from MtG. I think. I'm not a big MtG fan.