XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[Zevox]

Well, I have had my first real unit loss. It was on a mission to a large UFO landing, in Germany. Tough one, but I got through to the final enemies with no losses. But those final enemies were two Sectoid Commanders. I don't know what it is, but those little bastards seem to get more benefit from cover than other enemies, and I am scared silly of their mind-control ability. So after getting a wounding shot on one, I took a risk: moving one of my units into the room to a point which gave him cover from one, but not the wounded one, but also negated that wounded one's cover. Would've gotten me a solid win, as I could've swarmed the remaining Commander the next round no problem.

But swing - or rather, shoot - and a miss, on a 65% hit chance (apparently it still had some kind of defense boost despite lack of cover). And next round, one Commander hits my unit with a psionic attack, the other with its plasma pistol, and he goes down (he had been wounded by a Muton earlier, and my Supports had been too busy to get to healing him as yet).

Captain Kanji Tatsumi, one of my Heavies, and the sole survivor of that first scripted mission, ironically enough. I considered reloading to redo the mission without casualties, but I think I'll let it stick. I have more Heavies than any other class, and I've already reloaded twice before to save units that I didn't have replacements for at the time. Figure I should try to stop thinking of this like Fire Emblem, since the high causality rate is something old fans seem to like, and since it is easier to replace troops in this one than in Fire Emblem.

I did manage to capture one of the bastards that took him down, though, so I'm going to have my scientists have a nice long talk with him now.

Zevox

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Codemus

For me it was something like 20 days to make, and 5 to set up.

EDIT: I should note, I think that dosen't count multiple satelites. I've only ever build them one at a time, so I think if you sit down and build five at once, they all progress at the same time. So it may actually be beneficial to build up a store of satelites early and dole them out as you upgrade your maximum active capacity.

They get cheaper with more engineers and also use up your engineering staff. They take 20 days no matter how many you make at once, but it's a judgment call whether you want to scrape by without and then make a bunch when you have 15+ engineers and they only cost ~50 each, or if you want to spend closer to ~150 early and tie up your staff to get them in operation faster.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Codemus

So it may actually be beneficial to build up a store of satelites early and dole them out as you upgrade your maximum active capacity.

You can't build a satellite until you have the capacity for it (I've tried).

In other news, if I will have to wait another month after I finish the next satellite uplink room before I can get more satellites up and running, I think I will heed Anarion's advice and go ahead and interrogate the live ones.

Thanks for the help

Grey Wolf

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

You can't build a satellite until you have the capacity for it (I've tried).

Thanks for the help

Grey Wolf

I'm uncertain about this. I built them concurrently, ignoring the red warning message, but my space finished before my satellite, so I don't know what happens if you finish the satellite and don't have the capacity to launch it.

And you're welcome.

[Codemus]

Originally Posted by Anarion

I'm uncertain about this. I built them concurrently, ignoring the red warning message, but my space finished before my satellite, so I don't know what happens if you finish the satellite and don't have the capacity to launch it.

And you're welcome.

I'll have to test this when I get home.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

You can't build a satellite until you have the capacity for it (I've tried).

Yes you can. I had two sitting around waiting for my Nexus to finish just recently. Wasn't building the Nexus when I placed the order either (if had been they'd have finished at the same time as the Nexus or after, since the Nexus takes 21 days to build).

Edit: Just ran into a bug. Killed a Sectoid that had mind-linked with another, and though the camera has panned to show the other die, it's just sitting there. Might be because it's on the edge of the fog-of-war or something. Either way, looks like I'm reloading.

Zevox

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Yes you can. I had two sitting around waiting for my Nexus to finish just recently. Wasn't building the Nexus when I placed the order either (if had been they'd have finished at the same time as the Nexus or after, since the Nexus takes 21 days to build).

Edit: Just ran into a bug. Killed a Sectoid that had mind-linked with another, and though the camera has panned to show the other die, it's just sitting there. Might be because it's on the edge of the fog-of-war or something. Either way, looks like I'm reloading.

Zevox

I can confirm, just tested it as well. The satellites just sit and you can't launch them.

Zevox, you should report that bug. It sounds like it would break an ironman game.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Zevox, you should report that bug. It sounds like it would break an ironman game.

How? I'm on the 360, and am not aware of any mechanism for reporting bugs on it.

Edit: Holy crap I just had my most brutal mission ever. Yes, more so than the alien base, or the one where I lost my first non-rookie soldier earlier. It was a terror mission, where I barely saved 8/18 (though to be fair, some of that is because enemies are apparently allowed to just shoot through walls with no regard for LoS/LoE when killing civilians). I assume some of you have run into Berserkers? This mission threw three of them at me. Supported by a Cyberdisk (with a drone, of course) and about a half-dozen Mutons.

I ended with two of my team critically injured - one of those should have been dead, but apparently there's a chance for a killing blow to just result in a critical injury instead, and he got lucky. The other was a heavy who took so many hits during the fight (including two from a Berserker no less) that I had used all three of my Support's med-pack uses on him, and he still ended in low health.

On the up side, I also go a big win in that I captured one of the Berserkers. Can't wait to see what comes of that.

Zevox

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Yes you can.

Originally Posted by Anarion

I can confirm, just tested it as well. The satellites just sit and you can't launch them.

You guys are right. Sorry for that. I assume that the red message would stop me from buying the satellite. Damn, if only I had known earlier.

Grey Wolf

[Zevox]

Hm, another bug. I seem to have Schrondinger's SHIV. My new Alloyed SHIV won't deploy for battles (it refuses to let me add it to my team), and when I check on it in the Barracks, it doesn't display. It's on the units list, and I can try to look at it, but when I do, it's like it's invisible - it shows the screen as if it were there, but it isn't there. I can dismantle it, but that's it. Quite irritating - what a waste of good credits and supplies.

Zevox

[YakYak]

Tell me if any of you guys run into the bug that gives you the game over screen when you win.

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by Codemus

Thank goodness damage tracks over if you abort the intercept and imediately send a second one in.

Originally Posted by Impnemo

It is. Also note that the adjacency bonus goes vertical.

Thanks for the tips. This will help a lot!

[Zevox]

Oh my god. You wouldn't think that a mission I just posted as my most brutal ever would be topped so soon, but I just had one that blew it completely out of the water. It is a story mission, so I'll spoiler it.

Spoiler

I assaulted an Overseer UFO. It has scary troops. Oh hell, does it have scary troops.

Complement:
4x Muton Elite
2x Heavy Floater
2x Drone
1x Sectopod
1x Ethereal

I had never seen any of those before this mission, save for the Drones. I was woefully underequipped - those Muton Elites did 8-10 damage per shot, which, while not enough to one-shot my units, is more than enough to leave them in very bad shape. Only one of my units has Titan Armor, and even she really does not want to risk taking two hits from those things. And I'm still working with laser weapons and light plasma rifles on offense. I won this by a lot of luck and a lot of cautious play.

I found two of the Muton Elites outside the ship. I took one down immediately with two psionic attacks (I found that Labrys, one my heavies, has psionic potential as well, and it was a damn good thing that I brought her and Chie on this mission) and a shot from someone else. The other retreated into the ship... only to come back out one of the side entrances next round and shoot one of my units from a flanking position. I took some care to weaken it, then zapped it for a capture.

I slowly proceeded down the hallway, and ran into the Sectopod and Drone. That frightened me, a lot. After seeing the damage the Muton Elite did, a big walker like that had me thinking one-shot-KOs were not far behind. Didn't help that it had insane health, I was not getting favorable odds to hit, most of my units didn't have line-of-sight to it, and the hall was sparse on cover in between where I already was and where it was. So I shot down the drones and had Labrys, who was my advance unit due to having that Titan Armor, use a Shredder Rocket on it - which was a questionable move. While it did 8 damage to the Sectopod (Heat Ammo) and weakened it to future attacks, it also blew open the nearby walls, which was both a blessing and a curse.

Anyway though, lots of tentative shooting and overwatching later, it shot at me a couple of times and missed, taking out chunks of the wall when it did. I got a couple of reaction shots on the Sectopod that did weaken it a fair bit, and was moving some units into a side room that had been opened by the rocket, trying to get a view of it while having some cover. It took that opportunity to move around through another entrance to that room and fire at my troops point-blank. I'm not actually sure how much damage it did, as I was too shocked by the discovery that its attack is an AoE, and more importantly that it had killed itself with it, to notice. Pure. Luck.

So, that down, I proceed very slowly, healing my troops (I brought two Supports who have three-use medkits - I used all of them in this mission, and they're the kind improved to heal 6 hp per shot), and uncovered the rest of the enemies through the hole in the wall my rocket had blown. Yes, all of the rest. Fortunately by staying very defensive I was able to engage them slowly, taking down first a Heavy Floater, then having the Ethereal stupidly walk around the corner and right up to one of my heavies. That was a stroke of luck - it had double-moved, so it didn't get to do anything. And I don't want to know what it could have done. I just dropped its health with ease because it was out in the open and zapped it for a safe, easy capture.

From here things got hard again, because the remaining Muton Elites and Heavy Floater started taking good positions to attack me. The rest is a long, tense engagement where I play as defensive as possible, including a lengthy period where, it turns out, both side were just sitting in their respective rooms doing overwatch every turn. Eventually, I had to take the offensive, and was slowly able to take them down, largely thanks to Chie and Labrys being able to zap them with Psionics for an almost-guaranteed 5 damage a pop every other turn (plus that power decreases their aim and movement, which is very handy too). It was close though - I can't count the number of times when something could've gone wrong and cost me a character. You'd better believe I breathed a big sigh of relief when I got that mission success message.

So, yeah, that was amazing, and I cannot believe I pulled it off, much less to as resounding a final success as I did. No casualties, Chie became my first Corporal, Chie and Labrys both unlocked the top rank of their psionic powers, and I come home with two new captives to interrogate, several new corpses to dissect, and a lot of materials. Oh, and the next phase of the story beginning.

Zevox

[YakYak]

Oh, yeah, THAT one. I ended up trying again (shame is me) and blowing out a wall instead of using the door, following up with rocked spam, SHIV fire and holo-targeting.

[mistformsquirrl]

I just encountered a truly irritating mission. A UFO landing with a rather sizable UFO...

The problem: Said UFO environment was buggy as all get out. Trying to get my troops to go where I wanted was extremely difficult, and generally required repeatedly jogging the level view up and down then rotating the camera back and forth to finally find the 'sweet spot' that would allow me to put the cursor where it ought to go.

I've seen tiny instances of this in a few other locations, but it's generally been small areas - like the very edge of a log in one specific part of one specific map... this was the ENTIRE FRIGGIN' MAP.

The mission itself was crazy easy - a couple cyberdisks, 4 drones, 3 floaters, 3 chryssalids and 2 outsiders... I think that was it. I'll note that each of those groups came at me one at a time, and in the case of the Chryssalids they themselves split up to come at me one at a time. So it wasn't difficult or anything, it was just supremely irritating.

Which is odd, since 90% of the game so far has been nothing but fun. I suppose I can put up with a little frustration here and there; though I do hope I never see that map again before it gets fixed.

Also - I'm finding Normal is starting to get a little too easy now that I've gone beyond the early stages. My A-Team is almost all Major-Colonel ranks, and everyone else in my 20+ person barracks is Corporal or above.

I've only had a single instance in the entire game thus far of reloading the game to save a casualty - my poor then-Major level Assault got put in a terrible position by my cat (he walked across my keyboard at the wrong time, then sat on the mouse ><) and died horribly. That instance was a long time ago though, and now it's pretty much a breeze. I'm starting to research the SHIV stuff just for lulz; even though I have no reason to use it.

That said: I think part of why it's so easy is that I haven't even bothered with any of the storyline stuff yet. So while the aliens are still getting tougher, my tech level is probably a month+ ahead of where it would be had I spent research time on Xenobiology, the Arcthrower and such. Instead, I'm just about finished with the research for Titan Armor; which ought to be fun.

Hopefully it won't be too obnoxious when I find myself needing to go back and doing all the story researches to actually finish the game >_> We'll find out eh?

[Zevox]

I've spotted yet another bug - just my lucky day today, eh? At Major rank, Support troopers gain an ability that lets them carry a second item. But they don't seem to be able to use whatever you put in the second slot - it never shows up on their action list. The slot may work with Fiber Vests, I haven't tested that yet, but I've been trying to use it for grenades, and they simply aren't showing up.

Anyway though, it looks like research will be a snap for me now. That Ethereal I captured got me Research Credit: All. Cuts everything's research time in half, and stacks with other research credits. So yeah, none of my research since has taken more than two days. The limiting factor is more a lack of weapon fragments, since the plasma weapons I'm researching now require a truckload of them.

Zevox

[Vitruviansquid]

*sigh*

With so many bugs in the game, playing Ironman is turning out to be a serious drag.

Looks like the first game in which I've met Mutons is going to down due to a bug that permanently makes me unable to use all but one of my soldiers.

That said, Mutons turned out to be a lot less imposing than I imagined they'd be. Okay, to be fair, they do have more than double the health of every other ranged alien I've seen so far... and they're the only ones I've ever caught throwing grenades... and you have a 10% penalty to accuracy against them just because they're such badasses... and sometimes shooting them causes your own soldiers to spook...

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Finally got my grubby mitts in the game. Yesss. My Preciousss.

Starting up in Classic-but-not-Ironman. Need to decide a naming scheme - I can't decide between "Ponies" and "Hollywood Stars That Have Defeated Alien Invaders In Their Movies"

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid

That said, Mutons turned out to be a lot less imposing than I imagined they'd be. Okay, to be fair, they do have more than double the health of every other ranged alien I've seen so far... and they're the only ones I've ever caught throwing grenades... and you have a 10% penalty to accuracy against them just because they're such badasses... and sometimes shooting them causes your own soldiers to spook...

Those grenades are what make them a big threat. Damage that's guaranteed to hit you, and destroys your cover. If you're up against a group of them, or even just a group of enemies that happens to include one or two of them, and you can't take them down quickly, you can be in trouble quite fast. The best solution is to spread your troops out - they won't throw grenades if they can't get at least two people in the blast, at least not that I've seen.

Intimidate can be a problem too, but it's not too bad since it doesn't always kick in, and doesn't always panic a soldier even if it does. Can really mess you up at times when it does, though.

Zevox

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid

That said, Mutons turned out to be a lot less imposing than I imagined they'd be. Okay, to be fair, they do have more than double the health of every other ranged alien I've seen so far... and they're the only ones I've ever caught throwing grenades... and you have a 10% penalty to accuracy against them just because they're such badasses... and sometimes shooting them causes your own soldiers to spook...

Not only that, but Mutons will prioritize heavy cover much more heavily than regular units. Plus they have pretty big guns. And they seem to be better shots than ordinary men.

I lost my first six or so encounters with them, resulting in a couple game-overs. My first win was really satisfying though. I'd bought up all of Asia, so I had the 6 man squad for cheap, and the entire squad had laser weapons AND carapace armor, and for the first time I encountered them when *I* was ready. The bastards charged over a hill and took a reaction shot from literally everyone.

After that, they just weren't as terrifying as they usually are. I think getting Carapace Armor first that run makes a huge, huge difference, since it essentially means that you'll take very few losses for the first three months, which is plenty of time to amass a pile of high level units.

[Codemus]

So something funny happened with a Berserker and a rookie last night.

Okay, so Berserker and Mutons move up, I'm returning fire, and every one of them are severely damaged. The Berserker was by that point up in the middle of my guys. Then I had my rook fire at the zerker in short range. The zerker was only at 4HP and the rook had a laser rifle, so it was a sure shot.

Well, no dice. He did 3 damage, leaving the zerker at 1. Intimidation triggered and the rook panicked. The zerker then ran up to the rook, but because the rook panicked he fired off a wild shot... which killed the zerker! He made me proud that day.

[Tengu_temp]

I had that happen with Mutons as well, more than once. Fun times.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

OK, so I followed the advice of the forum, and I agree: the autopsies can wait until S. America bonus, while the interrogations are best done immediately. My situation has switched overnight: now I am well ahead of research (get bonuses to everything, pretty much) but now I'm dirt-poor. Can't even defend the skies, and I'm probably going to abandon Canada (lost Mexico already, so no chance of getting N. America bonus). At least now I have carapace (woo! get hit and not get wounded) and laser weapons for everyone in the squad. What I desperately need is a good couple of missions involving landed UFOs - I need alien tech for satellite rooms and (I'm sure) for the new version of the UFO hunter ships.

Question: money-wise, is it better to kill the enemy, or capture it? they made it sound like capturing makes money since the weapon is intact, but I can't sell all those plasma guns I keep grabbing. Will I be able once I research them?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Codemus]

On capturing aliens, once you research plasma weaponry, you get to use the guns you capture along with the aliens! Yes, you quite possibly never have to build a single plasma weapon if you get good at capturing critters.

I don't know if you get to interogate aliens multiple times, but I bet live aliens get a boat load of dosh on the grey market.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Codemus

On capturing aliens, once you research plasma weaponry, you get to use the guns you capture along with the aliens! Yes, you quite possibly never have to build a single plasma weapon if you get good at capturing critters.

What a scary prospect. I am not looking forward to my first alien sniper.

Originally Posted by Codemus

I don't know if you get to interogate aliens multiple times, but I bet live aliens get a boat load of dosh on the grey market.

Well, I have definitely captured more than one grey and more than one floater (floaters are specially easy, since their trick of dropping behind your troops means they are ripe for capture with little risk of over-advancing), but neither was showing in the grey market list, I don't think. But weirdly enough, the UFO driver does show up - I haven't sold the one I have since I need it for the story mission, but I'll make a point of capturing the next one.

Grey Wolf

[Tengu_temp]

You can't sell live aliens or their guns, but the guns you get from capturing aliens are so valuable that they leave the miniscule income from selling the body and weapon fragments in the dust. Besides, it's pretty hard to capture aliens - even if you focus on that you will end up killing many more than you capture.

I haven't seen any alien snipers yet. I don't think they exist.

[YakYak]

Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly

Finally got my grubby mitts in the game. Yesss. My Preciousss.

Starting up in Classic-but-not-Ironman. Need to decide a naming scheme - I can't decide between "Ponies" and "Hollywood Stars That Have Defeated Alien Invaders In Their Movies"

Twilight Schwartzenegger

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Tengu_temp

You can't sell live aliens or their guns, but the guns you get from capturing aliens are so valuable that they leave the miniscule income from selling the body and weapon fragments in the dust.

I disagree. The first few plasma light rifles I got will be useful - research will use a few, I'm sure, and I'll need two or three for my soldiers (I never field more than one support and one assault with rifle). I already have at least half-dozen in my stockpile, though, from floaters, mutons and thin men I've captured. After that, those light guns are useless to me, if I can't sell them. Same with plasma guns, except I'm unlikely to give those to my soldiers. I only ever use hand guns to not-kill aliens I intend to capture, and more powerful handguns are useless for that. Yes, fragments are $1 a piece, but I need 40 for research right now, not to mention building stuff. From where I am, I don't foresee a use for non-broken guns beyond the minimum required for research+equipping, which isn't that large a number. I'll continue to capture mutons, for their grenades, but otherwise, if all I get from captured aliens is less resources, I'll happily slaughter them.

By the way, capture made easy: suppress, suppress, suppress! I put a muton (last one of its squad) under two suppressions, and then used lighting reflexes to walk up to him and stun him.

Grey Wolf

[BRC]

Originally Posted by Tengu_temp

You can't sell live aliens or their guns, but the guns you get from capturing aliens are so valuable that they leave the miniscule income from selling the body and weapon fragments in the dust. Besides, it's pretty hard to capture aliens - even if you focus on that you will end up killing many more than you capture.

I haven't seen any alien snipers yet. I don't think they exist.

It's a good idea to research Light Plasma Rifles early on, then go crazy with the Arc Thrower for a bit. Then you can save your precious alloys building armor and specialist weapons (Like Heavy Lasers and Laser Snipers), while outfitting your supports and assaults with Light Plasmas, which are slightly superior to Laser rifles. I used Light Plasmas for an extended period of time. It's best to grab them while you're still fighting the highly-stunnable Thin Men.

Also, Classic X-Com fans, I just realized. Thin Men are described as being reptillian because they're replacing the Snake Men.

[Tengu_temp]

Well, if you already captured enough plasma weapons from the aliens to outfit the whole squad then capturing any more live aliens for that purpose is obviously pointless. But before that, capturing saves you a lot of money.

And indeed, Thin Men are Slenderman, MIBs, the conspiracy theory about lizard people ruling the world and genetically-modified Snakemen, all in one package.