XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[thorgrim29]

Exactly what changes when you go from normal to classic?

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Zevox

True enough, though that becomes less common as time goes on. Plasma weapons can one-shot most things that Mindfray gets that guaranteed hit on besides Muton Elites and Heavy Floaters, and even those can be one-shot on crits, particularly from snipers and shotgun-assaults.


Ow. Awful, awful luck there.

Anyway, I just completed the game.

Spoiler

Final mission was a breeze, although I was a little worried when my two blaster bombs for some reason did nothing to one of the two Sectopods. My sniper with double tap took care of it, though, so all was well. Speaking of, she also took out the entire final room in one round from outside the room itself, since it turns out that killing the lead Ethereal there destroys the other units he summoned when you walked in. Well, I had mind-controlled one of the Muton Elites before that, so I had to wait a few rounds for that to wear off, but he auto-died when it did too, so no problems there.

My final team, all Colonel rank:

Chie "Carnivore" Satonaka. Female Assault, Psionic, the Volunteer.
- Plasma Rifle, Psi Armor, Nano-Fiber Vest.
5th-Gen Labrys, "Steel." Female Heavy, Psionic.
- Heavy Plasma, Archangel Armor, Blaster Launcher, Scope.
7th-Gen Aigis, "Angel." Female Heavy, Psionic.
- Heavy Plasma, Archangel Armor, Blaster Launcher, Scope.
Yukari "Gale" Takeba. Female Sniper.
- Plasma Sniper, Archangel Armor, Plasma Pistol, Med-Kit.
Yukiko "Snow Black" Amagi. Female Support.
- Plasma Rifle, Archangel Armor, Med-Kit, Nano-Fiber Vest.
Fuuka "Juno" Yamagishi. Female Support, Psionic.
- Plasma Rifle, Psi Armor, Med-Kit, Nano-Fiber Vest.

I opted for all the Archangel Armor because the mission was going to be onboard an alien ship, where I've found those to be the most useful. Sure enough, they helped a hell of a lot - I'd count them as the main reason I found the mission so easy. Enemies up on higher terrain didn't matter, period, because so much of my team could just fly up above them in one move anyway. Made it easy to negate their cover as well. And of course it was useful for scouting, too.

I'm pretty sure that who can be the Volunteer was determined solely by will. Even though I had five psionics by the end, only the two I had wearing Psi Armor could actually use it.

I wound up using almost every party member from Persona 3 and 4 for my troops (including Minato and Yu, as the names for the main protagonists). I didn't use Ken and Koromaru for what I hope are obvious reasons to anyone who has played the games. Nor Teddie, partially because I really wasn't sure which class to use for him, partially because I just cannot see him using one of the male character models in this game, at all. Even more so than the others.

I sort of wound up playing the game much longer than I needed to, in order to train up my last round of troops (Aigis, Fuuka, Naoto [sniper], and Mitsuru [assault]). Mostly because I wanted Aigis and Fuuka in my final team, since they were psionic. (Naoto was too, but she was my move-and-attack sniper, and I wanted one of my squadsight snipers instead.) Missions get very sparse late-game, it seems, as I had a couple of months with only three at the end there. Finished in early February 2016.

Anyway, good game. Now, I wonder: should I move my next file up to Classic difficulty, or stay on Normal but use Iron Man mode? Hm...

Zevox

Depends what you want. Classic has more enemies and they come with a bonus to aim and to crit. Thin men also have an extra hp so you can't kill them with one grenade. If you're playing on regular classic and don't want to be super careful, expect to save and reload a fair bit when things go bad because you will watch your guys get crit cross map through high cover. But, you can feel good when you beat a classic mission, even with saves because it was beating really tough enemies.

Normal ironman is the easier experience, but you have to be careful and want to play at your best, since obviously any mistake can get punished badly.

Oh and an ending thought, huge spoilers obviously

Spoiler

So, did you find the ethereal plan really weird? They were explaining how you're the chose race finally and all these other ones are failed creations. And then they just kinda get to the last room and expect, what exactly? They attack you, you start shooting at them, they die, your volunteer has to save the planet. But were the ethereals expecting you to fight through all that stuff and team up with them after all their guys had been trying to shoot you with plasma? Or were they planning to defeat you and eat your brain so they could finally ascend? I didn't really understand what they wanted from the volunteer.

edit:

Originally Posted by thorgrim29

Exactly what changes when you go from normal to classic?

Several things.

In battle
enemy a.i. is better and favors high cover and safe attacks.
All enemies get a bonus to hit and crit
thin men (and possibly later enemies I haven't seen) get an extra health
your troops' starting life is 1 or 2 points lower (I can't remember, but it's definitely lower by a bit)

tactically
The world starts with extra panic. I think it's 8 overall, spread around to several countries, but I'm not certain on the number
You start out classic with 1 satellite instead of 2, so your income is lower and you have less coverage
You don't have an officer training school automatically, it costs 125 to build

[NEO|Phyte]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Anyway, I just completed the game.

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure that who can be the Volunteer was determined solely by will. Even though I had five psionics by the end, only the two I had wearing Psi Armor could actually use it.

Spoiler

It's not very clearly stated, but the person you send into the gollop chamber has to have psi armor on.

[tensai_oni]

The biggest difference between Normal and Classic on the global level is that the former has a much bigger chance of national panic decreasing each month if they have satellite coverage. Bigger as in, I didn't see it happen AT ALL on Classic. So it's much easier to lose a country, especially if you fail a mission.

During missions, Classic Mode aliens have better stats while your soldiers have one less HP. Aliens are also more numerous and slightly smarter.

[mistformsquirrl]

Originally Posted by Anarion

A story for your amusement. Also called "How I lost a squad in classic ironman to a single thin man and then cried myself to sleep."

Spoiler

Picture, if you will, a beautiful spring day. The scent of alien slime fills the air. In this setting, the shadow counsel has informed me that there is a VIP that needs rescuing, the only survivor of the alien abductions. No problem, I tell them. We've already handled two actual abductions with no casualties and we brought down an enemy UFO and killed all its crew flawlessly, not even a scratch on us.

Cut to the mission. We take the side of the map. A few aliens at a distance cause some trouble, our rookies burn two grenades to get all of them. There was even a couple thin men, but our heavy took care of one and the sniper got the other one. Seeing the VIP, we set up a corridor, sniper on top of a bus, heavy in cover by a statue, rookies playing escort.

We grab the VIP, and a couple thin men drop out of the sky. No big deal, the heavy drops a rocket on one of them to be safe, and nobody can draw a line of sight to the other, so we go into overwatch.

Now, let me go second by second. Out runs the thin man. Rookie fires and misses, no surprise. Second rookie misses, what can you do. Sniper misses, hmm that was unlucky to miss all three, but it happens. Thin man takes cover, aims his pistol and...ignores the rookies that are right near him to critical hit the sniper on the bus cross map. Both rookies panic, one shoots the other one, who was already injured dropping him. Next turn, I shrug, curse my bad luck and have the heavy take aim at the thin man, using bullet storm to fire twice. No dice. Alien turn, the thin man runs right by the rookie and headshots my heavy at point blank range. The VIP is almost to safety, but as he nears the evac, another thin man drops out of the sky in overwatch. My rookie takes one last, fruitless shot at 45%, misses, and dies horribly in the half cover he had found to protect himself.

Total attempts: 3 overwatch shots including a sniper, 2 bulletstorm shots at 55%, one rookie at 45%. Thin man: 2 crits and a regular shot. Squad wiped.

Wow, that is spectacularly bad luck <;_;>

[Leliel]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Spoiler

So, did you find the ethereal plan really weird? They were explaining how you're the chose race finally and all these other ones are failed creations. And then they just kinda get to the last room and expect, what exactly? They attack you, you start shooting at them, they die, your volunteer has to save the planet. But were the ethereals expecting you to fight through all that stuff and team up with them after all their guys had been trying to shoot you with plasma? Or were they planning to defeat you and eat your brain so they could finally ascend? I didn't really understand what they wanted from the volunteer.

Well:

Spoiler

They mentioned wanted humans as warriors against another force. So maybe they wanted to prove in concept what humans were capable of, then launch full conquest and assimilation.

Plus-I think it's pretty obvious the Ethereals have a god complex. They call their space base the Temple Ship, after all. Maybe they actually were deluded enough to think you'd thank them.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Depends what you want. Classic has more enemies and they come with a bonus to aim and to crit. Thin men also have an extra hp so you can't kill them with one grenade. If you're playing on regular classic and don't want to be super careful, expect to save and reload a fair bit when things go bad because you will watch your guys get crit cross map through high cover. But, you can feel good when you beat a classic mission, even with saves because it was beating really tough enemies.

Normal ironman is the easier experience, but you have to be careful and want to play at your best, since obviously any mistake can get punished badly.

You're making Classic sound extremely difficult there. A bonus to aim, unless it's very small (less than 10%), would make a world of difference compared to normal all by itself. Extra health on enemies and lower health on you could be big too. And of course more enemies on top of both of those starts to become quite scary. Add in the increased panic and not getting your second satellite free that you mentioned in your edit...

Yeah, you may just be scaring me into only going for Iron Man Normal.

Originally Posted by Anarion

Oh and an ending thought, huge spoilers obviously

Spoiler

So, did you find the ethereal plan really weird? They were explaining how you're the chose race finally and all these other ones are failed creations. And then they just kinda get to the last room and expect, what exactly? They attack you, you start shooting at them, they die, your volunteer has to save the planet. But were the ethereals expecting you to fight through all that stuff and team up with them after all their guys had been trying to shoot you with plasma? Or were they planning to defeat you and eat your brain so they could finally ascend? I didn't really understand what they wanted from the volunteer.

Spoiler

Yeah, their whole plan was not clear at all. They evidently wanted a species with powerful psionics and strong bodies... but for what? They mention "ascending," but never indicate what the heck that is. They mention that they're "preparing you for what lies ahead," or something to that effect, with no indication of what that is about.

And yeah, exactly what they expected you to do once you got to that final room, I have no idea. Just strange all around.

Maybe it was meant to be a sequel bait ending? That's about all that comes to mind. Would be an unusual move for a remake game, however.

Zevox

[Tengu_temp]

Spoiler

According to TV Tropes, the Ethereals are fighting/going to fight a war against another alien race, and wanted humanity to join them the same way the other races did. I assume the Ethereal leader attacks your people in order to mind control Shepard the Volunteer into doing just that.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Tengu_temp

Spoiler

According to TV Tropes, the Ethereals are fighting/going to fight a war against another alien race, and wanted humanity to join them the same way the other races did. I assume the Ethereal leader attacks your people in order to mind control Shepard the Volunteer into doing just that.

Spoiler

...and TV Tropes got this from where? Because it really doesn't explain the whole "ascending" thing, or most of the rest of what the Ethereals were saying in that last encounter.

Zevox

[Tengu_temp]

Beats me. I'd have to replay the ending to see if there are more clues towards that, probably.

[Opperhapsen]

Classic isn't hard at all.
Then again I've only just gone and researched the hyper communicator thingy.

Honestly the only hard bit is the geomap because Panic never goes down outside of council missions.

[YakYak]

Originally Posted by Tengu_temp

Spoiler

According to TV Tropes, the Ethereals are fighting/going to fight a war against another alien race, and wanted humanity to join them the same way the other races did. I assume the Ethereal leader attacks your people in order to mind control Shepard the Volunteer into doing just that.

Spoiler

Heh, that was my volunteer's last name. Anyway, I think it helps that the ethereals' plan is so vauge, as it fits into the classic sci-fi area of nobody knowing exactly what's going on or why the aliens are doing what they're doing. My first thought was that, as the leader said, their bodies are degrading, and I was thinking that perhaps they need a new species, strong of both body and mind, for them to... inhabit.

[NEO|Phyte]

Spoiler

I'd have to reload and go through the temple again, but at the encounter with the Uber Ethereal (it's actually called that if you click into its more info window), it was sounding like the Ethereals were themselves a failure, and had been exiled from wherever over it. Very vague on why whoever the puppetmaster behind everything is doing this, but considering how the failures are being re-purposed, some form of conflict seems likely.

[YakYak]

Spoiler

Yeah, I found out what it was called when it reflected an attack. Anyway, maybe there are two types of ethereals, those that ascended, and those that didn't, who will somehow be released from their suffering if they can cause another race to ascend.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte

Spoiler

I'd have to reload and go through the temple again, but at the encounter with the Uber Ethereal (it's actually called that if you click into its more info window), it was sounding like the Ethereals were themselves a failure, and had been exiled from wherever over it. Very vague on why whoever the puppetmaster behind everything is doing this, but considering how the failures are being re-purposed, some form of conflict seems likely.

Spoiler

It mentions that the Ethereals themselves were a failure because they did not "ascend," whatever that means, as "they," whoever that may be, intended them to. My initial reaction was that they may have been subjected to the same treatment they're giving you by another race, but it's completely unclear. Doesn't give any clues as to what "ascending" involves, or what they're babbling about with "preparing you for what lies ahead" (or whatever that line was). And if they were the targets of another race as you are to them, the question becomes why they're targeting you instead of the other race in question.

Really, the whole thing is just vague nonsense which raises many questions and doesn't deign to answer any of them.

Anyway, I think I will be making my next file a Normal Iron Man one. Iron Man mode is the kind of thing I've long thought about doing in Fire Emblem, but could never bring myself to actually do when playing it. Having it as a mode that forces you to abide by it was a good idea I think, and perhaps the only way I can actually do a play-through like that.

Zevox

[king.com]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Spoiler

It mentions that the Ethereals themselves were a failure because they did not "ascend," whatever that means, as "they," whoever that may be, intended them to. My initial reaction was that they may have been subjected to the same treatment they're giving you by another race, but it's completely unclear. Doesn't give any clues as to what "ascending" involves, or what they're babbling about with "preparing you for what lies ahead" (or whatever that line was). And if they were the targets of another race as you are to them, the question becomes why they're targeting you instead of the other race in question.

Really, the whole thing is just vague nonsense which raises many questions and doesn't deign to answer any of them.

Anyway, I think I will be making my next file a Normal Iron Man one. Iron Man mode is the kind of thing I've long thought about doing in Fire Emblem, but could never bring myself to actually do when playing it. Having it as a mode that forces you to abide by it was a good idea I think, and perhaps the only way I can actually do a play-through like that.

Zevox

I feel like a big something is left out of the ending, given the set of achievements nobody has got yet, Im going to say this is less sequel and more DLC hopefully making the ending less....empty. Atleast from a narrative perspective.

Anyway, I know you chose Iron Man Normal but I really recommend running through a bit of classic if you have time. The start REALLY tries to kick you in the butt and you get to learn that Thin Men are the most dangerous aliens in the game but its definitely a crazy fun experience trying to work your way through the game.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by king.com

Anyway, I know you chose Iron Man Normal but I really recommend running through a bit of classic if you have time. The start REALLY tries to kick you in the butt and you get to learn that Thin Men are the most dangerous aliens in the game but its definitely a crazy fun experience trying to work your way through the game.

Oh, I'm sure I'll try it sometime, just not right now. I mean, I've played through every Fire Emblem game released in the US on their hard modes (except Shadow Dragon, because I've only played that once); this can't be that much worse than what I've seen before.

Zevox

[NEO|Phyte]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Oh, I'm sure I'll try it sometime, just not right now. I mean, I've played through every Fire Emblem game released in the US on their hard modes (except Shadow Dragon, because I've only played that once); this can't be that much worse than what I've seen before.

Not familiar with Fire Emblem, but before I gave up on Ironman, I've had more than one instance of the Thin Man of the Apocalypse in classic. It is quite humbling to have a full squad picked apart by a single Thin Man that refuses to get shot and crits every shot.

[Anarion]

It's more coming to terms with death. In normal, I lost very few units and nothing better than a captain. I did reload a couple times when I simply screwed up badly, and I intentionally treated my first playthrough as a chance to see how everything worked without being too punished.

Ironman will feel easy, but you'll lose people to stuff that happens that you can't take back. Classic will feel hard after playing normal, but you can try a few times to get it right. My opinion of Ironman Classic after 3 files of such is that it's masochism.

Edit: Comparing to hard mode in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, classic is both harder and easier. It's easier in that you have ways of just killing enemies and any given mission is probably fine, whereas in the Fire Emblem Games, losing a good character was crushing. It's harder because of the world panic game that's actually going on that can destroy you even if you win every tactical map.

[thorgrim29]

Having just beat the game on normal ironman (it was fairly easy, lost 2 or battles all in all, and beat the last level on the second try, only lost Russia very early on, but I was in europe so that wasn't too big of a deal), I will now start on classic ironman, wish me luck.

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by Anarion

You start out classic with 1 satellite instead of 2, so your income is lower and you have less coverage
You don't have an officer training school automatically, it costs 125 to build

Wow, you guys have all been getting an extra satellite and a free officer training school this whole time?

Originally Posted by Anarion

My opinion of Ironman Classic after 3 files of such is that it's masochism.

I'm on my third attempt and even though I'm doing fairly terribly, I have to disagree with this. Yes, it's hard (almost Nintendo hard), but I get better each game and I find that incredibly rewarding. Every failure is a huge setback, but every success is a glorious victory.

Anyway, even with laser rifles, I've still yet to find a good way to deal with Mutons. I faced the Cyberdisc a couple times, and while they're more durable, they're not quite as scary once you take down that drone. The problem with them is when it flies around to flank you when you're busy dealing with Mutons or Chryssalids.

Also, getting ambushed by 6 Mutons is teh suxors.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye

Anyway, even with laser rifles, I've still yet to find a good way to deal with Mutons. I faced the Cyberdisc a couple times, and while they're more durable, they're not quite as scary once you take down that drone. The problem with them is when it flies around to flank you when you're busy dealing with Mutons or Chryssalids.

Also, getting ambushed by 6 Mutons is teh suxors.

The same way you deal with everything else, I would think. Set up a good cover overwatch killzone, send a rookie to scout, run back to the group when you find a single group of aliens. Repeat until there are no more aliens.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte

Not familiar with Fire Emblem, but before I gave up on Ironman, I've had more than one instance of the Thin Man of the Apocalypse in classic. It is quite humbling to have a full squad picked apart by a single Thin Man that refuses to get shot and crits every shot.

Fire Emblem is a tactical RPG series which is known for being challenging. Like in XCOM, death of units is permanent. Unlike in XCOM, replacing units is extremely hard. The characters are all unique, their recruitment spread out throughout the game, and over the course of the entire game you're likely to get only a few of each class at most, only one of some classes (usually certain mage types). And since it's an RPG, there is of course a level system - up to 40 total levels in most games, more in certain ones. Characters you don't use don't gain any experience, so you can't just replace a dead unit with another of his or her class with any ease, at all. Players restarting a level because of the loss of a single character is extremely common in that series. And avoiding the loss of a even a single character on those games' hard modes can be quite tough once you get past the early stages.

Originally Posted by Anarion

Edit: Comparing to hard mode in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, classic is both harder and easier. It's easier in that you have ways of just killing enemies and any given mission is probably fine, whereas in the Fire Emblem Games, losing a good character was crushing. It's harder because of the world panic game that's actually going on that can destroy you even if you win every tactical map.

I was thinking that may be the case. The whole panic level thing frightened me a few times on normal, with a couple of countries getting up as high as 4 at times. Had I not done the Alien Base raid when I did and gotten that global -2 panic, I could have lost some, easily. For countries to start with panic on classic, and you to start with fewer satellites... that really worries me.

Anyway, I have begun my Normal Iron Man run. First mission (no tutorial), I lost one guy to a critical hit. Was afraid I'd lose more when that caused two of my units to panic and begin shooting at each other, but thankfully both missed. All three of the survivors got their initial promotion, giving me one of each class except Assault right out of the gate.

I think this time I'll go with a naming scheme that's much broader, and which I have less emotional attachment to. Specifically, characters from Marvel vs Capcom - or who I'd want to be in that series, if I start to run low on actual members who fit the sex/class combinations. Starting with Arthur (Support), Morrigan (Sniper), and of course, Guile (Heavy).

Zevox

[king.com]

Originally Posted by Anarion

My opinion of Ironman Classic after 3 files of such is that it's masochism.

You NEED to play the first mission in Impossible if this is what you think Classic is.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by king.com

You NEED to play the first mission in Impossible if this is what you think Classic is.

But impossible actually is masochism. The difficulty description says it's for players that enjoy suffering. I choose to take the devs at their word.

[Opperhapsen]

Got the entire world locked down, the Asian bonus has proved to be near useless.

I honestly have no clue what I should spend my massive amount of money on.
Any weapons better than plasma?

[Zevox]

Aaaaaand my second mission of my Iron Man file, I lose Guile. He destroyed his own cover by accident (shooting into a building, turned out the window was his cover... oops) and got shot by two Sectoids. At least one crit (not sure whether the killing blow was a crit or not). So I now have no Heavy.

Got a recruit promoted, giving me my first Assault, though. X-23 it is. Which I think uses up the automatic class assignment (it seems as though your first four units always promote to one of each class, correct?), so we'll see where things go from there. Would be just my luck if I have a hard time getting a Heavy now, after having such an abundance of them in my last game and now losing my first one to such bad luck immediately in this one.

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

Got the entire world locked down, the Asian bonus has proved to be near useless.

I honestly have no clue what I should spend my massive amount of money on.
Any weapons better than plasma?

Nope, Plasma is the best. At that point in the game, what you spend your money on is acquiring enough equipment to fully equip all of your units, at least one Firestorm with a higher-level weapon (EMP Canon, Plasma Canon, Fusion Canon) in every continent, SHIVs, and facilities (mostly workshops to make other stuff cheaper). And any Foundry projects you haven't completed yet.

Zevox

[king.com]

Originally Posted by Anarion

But impossible actually is masochism. The difficulty description says it's for players that enjoy suffering. I choose to take the devs at their word.

Yea but you need to try and it just look at what the game throws at you. Its not simply the increase hit rates but the literal hordes of sectoids that come pouring out at you. Took me many attempts and a hell of a lot of save scumming and i managed to finish the first mission.......Yea Im going to go do a Classic Ironman instead.

[Opperhapsen]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Nope, Plasma is the best. At that point in the game, what you spend your money on is acquiring enough equipment to fully equip all of your units, at least one Firestorm with a higher-level weapon (EMP Canon, Plasma Canon, Fusion Canon) in every continent, SHIVs, and facilities (mostly workshops to make other stuff cheaper).

Zevox

But I'm like halfway through and I have a crack squad of colonels clad in titan armour and armed with plasma.

Is there better than titan at least?
Honestly I can't really be bothered with building firestorms, two interceptors a continent will serve me for now, and the resource requirement is steep.
Are they really a necessity?

Originally Posted by king.com

Yea but you need to try and it just look at what the game throws at you. Its not simply the increase hit rates but the literal hordes of sectoids that come pouring out at you. Took me many attempts and a hell of a lot of save scumming and i managed to finish the first mission.......Yea Im going to go do a Classic Ironman instead.

Sectoids aren't too bad y'know.
Could be worse.
Could be thin men.

I'm not scared of Mutons, I'm not scared of cyberdiscs, and sectopods barely phase me.
But those thin men man.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

But I'm like halfway through and I have a crack squad of colonels clad in titan armour and armed with plasma.

Is there better than titan at least?

In terms of health you get from them? No. There are other higher-end armors which have useful side-effects though. Archangel Armor sacrifices only 2 hp compared to Titan and grants flight. Ghost is 4 less, but grants a grappling hook for quickly ascending buildings/higher ground, an increase to your movement speed, a +20 to defense, and four uses of one-round invisibility. And Psi Armor is also 4 less, but grants +10 to defense and +30 to will, perfect for psionic troops.

My own final team had four troops in Archangel Armor and two in Psi Armor. Titan is great in many situations, but I found the added flexibility of flight much better than the two extra health of Titan in the kind of stage the final mission is, and Psi Armor is a must-have for psionics intending to use Mind Control.

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

Honestly I can't really be bothered with building firestorms, two interceptors a continent will serve me for now, and the resource requirement is steep.
Are they really a necessity?

Absolutely. You'll at best take down mid-size UFOs with basic interceptors. Larger ones will outrun them and/or shoot them down easily, which is where Firestorms come in.

Zevox