XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

I am too old to care for achievements... (seriously). For two thirds of my gaming life, they did not exist. Will never care.

I'm the same way - except that my reason for it is simply that they don't do anything. They're basically just a "you did this" message that I get once, which is entirely pointless from where I'm sitting.

Zevox

[Impnemo]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

That's twenty to twenty two things that can be completed instantly from the start. Sure, they're not long in the late game, but that's still about forty days saved.

You can also get the research credits from those interrogations that are just wonderfully efficient themselves. I wouldn't dream of researching plasma weapons without having interrogated a muton for a 50% off bonus.


And yes ethereal are stunnable, interrogatable, and deliver 50% off research credit towards everything. Though by the time you get that really the only things left to research would be blaster bombs and such.

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

I am too old to care for achievements... (seriously). For two thirds of my gaming life, they did not exist. Will never care.

Well I've been a gamer since 1986, and I love them. Perhaps it's less about age and more about attitude.

Anyway, how should I know (or care) if you care about achievements or not? My comment is valid either way. That's why I used the phrasing "if you want" to get it. If you don't, then obviously you won't ever need to start in South America. My only point was there IS a reason to start there, and that reason is achievements.

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Impnemo

You can also get the research credits from those interrogations that are just wonderfully efficient themselves. I wouldn't dream of researching plasma weapons without having interrogated a muton for a 50% off bonus.


And yes ethereal are stunnable, interrogatable, and deliver 50% off research credit towards everything. Though by the time you get that really the only things left to research would be blaster bombs and such.

Often, not even them, and the barrier there is never time, but rather access to Fusion Cores. Interrogating an Etherial is just something you do for completionism's sake; by the time you manage to shoot the Overseer down and enable Etherials to show up at all, you've got at the very least the Firestorm and all Plasma weapons researched, and frankly about a month after that of pure research to get all the armours in the bag too (or, more likely, you've had the armours for some time before you finished the Firestorm). The only thing that will be sped up by capturing one that might actually matter is Psi Armour.

Has anyone actually managed to use the Drone Capture Foundry tech yet? I've never bothered using it, since Drones are pretty much useless outside of prolonging the Sectopain, and I was wondering if it was actually worth trying (say, maybe, you get something for Drones you end the mission controlling)?

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Has anyone actually managed to use the Drone Capture Foundry tech yet? I've never bothered using it, since Drones are pretty much useless outside of prolonging the Sectopain, and I was wondering if it was actually worth trying (say, maybe, you get something for Drones you end the mission controlling)?

I tried it, because I thought it would work like capturing other aliens. It just gives you control of that drone for the rest of the mission, nothing more. And the drone is just as weak as you'd expect.

Zevox

[KillianHawkeye]

Can a drone use its repairing beam to repair your SHIV? That might be worth it if you like SHIVs a lot.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Impnemo

You can also get the research credits from those interrogations that are just wonderfully efficient themselves. I wouldn't dream of researching plasma weapons without having interrogated a muton for a 50% off bonus.

Yeah. I'll hold off on Carapace Armor in favor of the other two starting researches, because I want that Floater credit. And if I capture a Sectoid first (which is unlikely, but possible), then I'm researching Beam Weapons first.

You get the research credits without the South America bonus, though, and it doesn't help you capture them, just speeds up interrogations and autopsies.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye

Can a drone use its repairing beam to repair your SHIV? That might be worth it if you like SHIVs a lot.

I believe so - I think I recall it having that ability on its options. Still doesn't seem worth it to me though, since getting in close to a drone for that capture is an extra risk for very little benefit, even if it can heal SHIVs.

Zevox

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye

Well I've been a gamer since 1986, and I love them. Perhaps it's less about age and more about attitude.

I like the achievements that alert you to cool fun things you otherwise wouldn't think to try. Like the one in this game for clearing a UFO with one person on classic or harder. It's the sort of thing that's probably really interesting, but without the achievement, you probably wouldn't think to do it.

Any achievement of the form "Kill 500 X" is purely a nice sound effect for playing the game anyway.

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Yeah. I'll hold off on Carapace Armor in favor of the other two starting researches, because I want that Floater credit. And if I capture a Sectoid first (which is unlikely, but possible), then I'm researching Beam Weapons first.

You get the research credits without the South America bonus, though, and it doesn't help you capture them, just speeds up interrogations and autopsies.

Carapace is actually one of the few techs I think it's worthwhile to get without a research credit. There's nothing better you could be doing once arc thrower is done, and if you start it asap, you'll usually be done with it by the time you're even able to capture a floater.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Any achievement of the form "Kill 500 X" is purely a nice sound effect for playing the game anyway.

Which is what the vast majority of them are, from what I've seen. Heck, I've seen games where you get an achievement for turning the game on the first time. Which I personally interpret as meaning that the developer in question cares not one whit about achievements and is only including them because Microsoft says they have to.

Zevox

[Diego Havoc]

Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation did a review of XCOM. I don't think I can link it here (he swears a lot) but he gave it a very positive review, which is rare for him. Worth watching.

[Luzahn]

It's funny, I never want to watch his reviews of games I'm actually playing. I start to feel bad about myself and notice all of the horrible, horrible flaws.

[Krade]

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

I am too old to care for achievements... (seriously). For two thirds of my gaming life, they did not exist. Will never care.

The way I see it, yeah, they're stupid and pointless. However, I find them useful for squeezing more out of a game. I mean, I already paid $60 for it, might as well make an attempt at the achievements.

Also, I only bother trying to get all of the achievements on games that deserve that much of my time. I will try for XCOM, but I don't know how likely it is that I'll beat a Classic Ironman game or Impossible at all. I guess we'll see.

[Cheesegear]

Clark Kent - Assault
Bruce Wayne - Support
Princess Diana - Heavy
Hal Jordan - Assault
Barry Allen - Support
Victor Stone - Sniper Heavy. I'm told Snipers are bad. I'll try not having one this playthrough.

Arthur Curry - A hereditary name passed onto a series of Rookies after the last one dies for being useless.

[Luzahn]

Really? I've always found snipers to be amazing. That ability to scout forward and have them fire with squadsight is extremely effective, especially once you have ghost armor on your spotter.

Of course, training them up to squadsight is slightly difficult.

[BRC]

Snipers are awesome, but you need to use them right. In my first playthrough I thought Squadsight was impractical. By the time my snper was in position, the fight had generally moved to somewhere outside his line of effect, so I made a Snap Shot sniper and kept them running with the pack.

And then everything changed when the fire nation attacked, only to be blown to smithereens by Pistols.

I had been so distracted by the shinyness of Damn Good Ground, that I ignored Gunslinger, a truly wonderful ability. Gunslinger isn't quite the best of both worlds, but at the very least you get to have your cake and eat some ice cream. You're still going to be focused on getting your sniper into position, but with gunslinger and upgraded pistols, they arn't defenseless on their way there. They can follow the rest of your squad in the endless pattern of Move-Overwatch.

Once on classic I had a large, crashed UFO, and most of my good troops stuck in Sickbay. My only remaining vets were a pair of squadsight snipers, not exactly ideal for storming a UFO. One of them set up on overwatch, while the other moved in to support my squaddies and rookies, dropping x-rays left and right with her laser pistol.

[Surrealistik]

I don't know who told you Snipers are bad, but I can assure you they're probably not very good at this game.

Squadsight + Opportunist Snipers make X-Com easy mode, even on Ironman Impossible once you get decent weapons + armour.


Gunslinger also beats the pants off of Damn Good Ground which is generally useless lategame, and situational otherwise, particularly given how it synergizes with Squadsight.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

I'm told Snipers are bad. I'll try not having one this playthrough.

You're told wrong. Very wrong. A Sniper with squadsight properly positioned is one of the most dangerous things in the game. High-rank snipers with plasma sniper rifles can kill literally anything in one round with a little luck on critical hits, or any two things that aren't the two highest-health units in the game.

Both times that I've beaten the game, the final boss was killed by my sniper from outside the room he was in in a single round, before he could do anything to me. They're just that good.

Zevox

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Never put your base in South America.

However, South America requires only two satellites to get its bonus. Europe requires four. And while in the long run, Europe will provide more than double the overall benefits, building two satellites and putting them over South America to get that bonus within the first month is really good.

How many aliens are there, and how many can be captured? Lessee... Sectoid, Sectoid Commander, Muton, Muton Elite, Muton Berserker, Thin Man, Floater, Heavy Floater, Cyberdisc, Drone, Chryssalid, Sectopod, Ethereal. That's thirteen (I don't know if Drone has an autopsy, though). I'm not sure if Ethereals can be stunned, but Chryssalids and the three robotic enemies can't, so that's eight or nine interrogations.

That's twenty to twenty two things that can be completed instantly from the start. Sure, they're not long in the late game, but that's still about forty days saved.

This. So much this. Don't base in South America, but two satellites down there early game (maybe even your first two) is a huge early-game boost, and one not to be ignored.

After all, once you've done all the interrogations and autopsies, you can move the satellites elsewhere.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Clark Kent - Assault
Bruce Wayne - Support
Princess Diana - Heavy
Hal Jordan - Assault
Barry Allen - Support
Victor Stone - Sniper Heavy. I'm told Snipers are bad. I'll try not having one this playthrough.

Arthur Curry - A hereditary name passed onto a series of Rookies after the last one dies for being useless.

Eh? Snipers are great. Are you sure your informant knows to take Gunslinger and actually bother with the pistol upgrades?

At squaddie level, Snipers are worse than Rookies. But then when they get a couple more kills and go to Corporal... well, if you're in an open area, you can shoot guys clear across the map as long as one of your teammates can see them. That's with Squadsight. Snap Shot is a decent replacement if you want Damn Good Ground... but I never really see the need for that. To play your cards right, you take Squadsight, then Gunslinger. That extra +2 damage makes the pistol about as good as a rifle, and it has infinite ammo too. Swapping weapons doesn't take an action, so no worries there.

Disabling Shot versus Battle Scanner is pretty tough. I recommend having two Snipers, one with each. Disabling Shot you take when you want to help the Assault capture someone without fear of getting too close without being able to take the capture, or just failing the capture entirely. Battle Scanner is the guy you take on your A-Team, it's a great scouting device for when you don't want to send your team into an area with no reachable cover.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Eh? Snipers are great. Are you sure your informant knows to take Gunslinger and actually bother with the pistol upgrades?

At squaddie level, Snipers are worse than Rookies. But then when they get a couple more kills and go to Corporal... well, if you're in an open area, you can shoot guys clear across the map as long as one of your teammates can see them. That's with Squadsight. Snap Shot is a decent replacement if you want Damn Good Ground... but I never really see the need for that. To play your cards right, you take Squadsight, then Gunslinger. That extra +2 damage makes the pistol about as good as a rifle, and it has infinite ammo too. Swapping weapons doesn't take an action, so no worries there.

Disabling Shot versus Battle Scanner is pretty tough. I recommend having two Snipers, one with each. Disabling Shot you take when you want to help the Assault capture someone without fear of getting too close without being able to take the capture, or just failing the capture entirely. Battle Scanner is the guy you take on your A-Team, it's a great scouting device for when you don't want to send your team into an area with no reachable cover.

Agreed.

Sniper with Squadsight and Opportunist on Overwatch is pure murder on anything that pops out of nowhere.

Battle Scanners are like rookies... disposable minions used to trigger alien spawns while you are in position. Highly useful, moreso because aliens don't see Battle Scanners, so you can get shots off on aliens who aren't in cover yet.

Having said that, Disabling Shot is great for live captures, like if you are wanting those Plasma Pistols the Thin Men are carrying (for your Gunslinger snipers to use). It's also highly useful if one of your guys gets MC'd by an Ethereal or Sectoid Commander and you won't be able to drop it this round. Disabling Shot your MC'd buddy, and he won't be able to do anything but reload.

Then again, I also see the point in a Heavy with Holo Targeting/Suppression/Havoc. Sure, you don't have as much 'boom', but you've got an excellent trainer for squaddies, and odds are you've got two of them in your group anyways.

The only class I could really see doing without is Support. If you've got a Suppression Heavy, the only thing Support can really do for you is the combat drugs smoke to boost your psychic to the point where you can Mind Control Ethereals.

[Surrealistik]

Battlescanner >>>> Disabling Shot.

The latter is only worth it if you're struggling to capture aliens.

[Eurus]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

This. So much this. Don't base in South America, but two satellites down there early game (maybe even your first two) is a huge early-game boost, and one not to be ignored.

After all, once you've done all the interrogations and autopsies, you can move the satellites elsewhere.

You can move satellites?

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Eurus

You can move satellites?

I was wondering about that, since I don't actually have the game but have been watching three LPs (two of which are being done on Normal. At least one guy would be slaughtered on Classic, but the other guy is shaping up after he did that off-screen run on Easy mode. I haven't gotten to the end of his Normal LP yet, but I think he's going to do another go at Classic sometime) and following this thread.

So I can convincingly appear very well-informed about the game while being absolutely clueless about certain things.

[Cheesegear]

RE; 'Snipers are bad'.

I'm currently slogging my way through Ironman Impossible. I was told in not-uncertain terms that don't bother with Snipers because they don't get good until later, and, on Impossible, there is no 'Get Good Later'. Wheras Heavies get Bulletstorm early and Heat Ammo is basically mandatory, so you definitely want more than one - which replaces the Sniper slot. And, since Snipers can't move and shoot, and on Hard, Pistols "Don't do enough damage" endquote.

I don't think the issue was that Snipers are bad. Just that Heavies are required and Snipers...Aren't.

[mistformsquirrl]

Regarding Snipers - I must concur with others, snipers are fantastic.

My sniper is almost always my most deadly character, especially at Colonel rank with Double Tap.

The damage and accuracy of a squadsight sniper are *absurd* once you get them up there. It's glorious!

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by mistformsquirrl

My sniper is almost always my most deadly character, especially at Colonel rank with Double Tap.

Like I said, in Ironman on the harder difficulties, I think the idea is to be more concerned with what's on the lower end of the tree since no-one is supposed to last more than five or six missions - if that.

[Surrealistik]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

RE; 'Snipers are bad'.

I'm currently slogging my way through Ironman Impossible. I was told in not-uncertain terms that don't bother with Snipers because they don't get good until later, and, on Impossible, there is no 'Get Good Later'. Wheras Heavies get Bulletstorm early and Heat Ammo is basically mandatory, so you definitely want more than one - which replaces the Sniper slot. And, since Snipers can't move and shoot, and on Hard, Pistols "Don't do enough damage" endquote.

I don't think the issue was that Snipers are bad. Just that Heavies are required and Snipers...Aren't.

Heavies are unquestionably the workhorses for the early game, and are still very powerful late, destroying mechs, and clearing cover for your Squadsight snipers.

Snipers are dominant mid game and late game conversely. Squadsight, Battle Scanners and Opportunist are powerful enough to break the game (DT is _definitely_ a gamebreaker). There is such thing as 'later' if you play conservatively, doubly so for Squadsights that keep to the back. Once you have carapace or better, only exceptionally bad luck will result in the loss of a conservatively microed squadsighter.

[mistformsquirrl]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Like I said, in Ironman on the harder difficulties, I think the idea is to be more concerned with what's on the lower end of the tree since no-one is supposed to last more than five or six missions - if that.

Note that I only said "especially at" - they're good as long as you can get them Squadsight, which is only what... Corporal rank? That's the same as Bullet Swarm if I recall.

-----

Completely unrelated:

On this, my third playthrough, I have FINALLY had some decent luck with psi testing. Usually I'm lucky to have one Psionic out of 9 people tested*

This time I've had one group entirely test positive, and another one in the next group, so out of 9 people tested thus far I have 4 psychics <@_@>

Needless to say, I like where this is going. Might just be able to mind control an Ethereal this time around.

*How many I tend to get tested between getting psionics and getting the Gollop chamber and thus ending the game.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

RE; 'Snipers are bad'.

I'm currently slogging my way through Ironman Impossible. I was told in not-uncertain terms that don't bother with Snipers because they don't get good until later, and, on Impossible, there is no 'Get Good Later'. Wheras Heavies get Bulletstorm early and Heat Ammo is basically mandatory, so you definitely want more than one - which replaces the Sniper slot. And, since Snipers can't move and shoot, and on Hard, Pistols "Don't do enough damage" endquote.

I don't think the issue was that Snipers are bad. Just that Heavies are required and Snipers...Aren't.

Honestly, there isn't a ton of difference. Both snipers and rookies are going to be mostly killing things with their grenades early because you can't possibly rely on 40-60% shots for actually killing aliens. All you need is to get the sniper up to corporal (a single successful mission as a sniper as long as he gets at least one kill) and then you never need to put him in harm's way again thanks to squad sight.

If your 4-person early teams don't include a sniper until you get a squad size upgrade, I can accept that, but all you have to do is get a sniper through one good mission and that sniper will soon be getting more kills than the rest of your squad combined.

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Like I said, in Ironman on the harder difficulties, I think the idea is to be more concerned with what's on the lower end of the tree since no-one is supposed to last more than five or six missions - if that.

This is wrong. If anything, the harder the difficulty, the more important it becomes to preserve your troops. Squaddies and corporals are going to have a tough time against mutons and cyberdiscs due to their natural defenses, much less muton elites or ethereals. Plasma weapons hit harder, but they don't make your soldiers any more accurate, and the lack of abilities like lightning reflexes and HEAT ammo (plus extra rockets and grenades) is going to become a serious problem.

You can train up teams later, god knows I killed off 62 soldiers in my classic ironman run. But it's much easier to preserve the lives of your troops.

Edit: Also, it's weird that you think bullet swarm is good but snipers are not, since anytime that you could use bullet swarm, a sniper in the same position could have gone for a headshot.