This, Me thinks, is a something akin to playing the board game Risk. A good player takes out another player when they have an opportunity and the player has cards to collect from him.
A Great player lets a rival attack another rival and then take them out when there weakest. I think Tarquin could've taken on the OotS, but chose not to, as they are just prodding the Order to do their dirty work for them. (find the traps, find the gate, defend it from Xykon and such)
if he had stayed hed be weaponless and have no cleric back up and this time the OoTS would have the advantage of wahtever other traps they made and there arcane spellcaster (at least T would think so)
Now, if the comic were full of characters like him, folks who, at the drop of a hat, pulled out the best possible tool or plan to deal with their current problem, then OK, there would be a problem. But so far as I am aware, there's only one Tarquin.
I actually think an entire story full of characters like Tarquin would be pretty interesting... though hard to write.
Not synonymously, no. It's either one or the other (or both), depending how you want to view it. Either Tarquin's links with the drow were enough to foreshadow him knowing drown sign language, making it a Chekov's Gun, or they weren't, making it a Deus Ex Machina. Or it was foreshadowed enough to make it a mild Chekov's Gun, but used in a completely unexpected way to solve the major pressing issue of that group of characters, thus also making it a Deus Ex Machina. It's unusual, but something can be both at the same time, at least in my opinion (and not just mine, it would seem). *shrug*
Very much agreed!
Hmm, very good point. it's sort of like... a half-assed Chekov's gun. Like you know the spy in the example who suddenly reveals that he knows Russian. The "foreshadowing" to this would be something like:
oh, how was your sightseeing trip in Russia?
or maybe revealing earlier that his great grandfather was from Russia.
They're sort of connected, but you'd never expect that great a leap from one minute detail. Still, I wouldn't say it's bad storytelling... for instance, I know some people were thinking something a long the lines of, "Hmm, V cast a familicide spell that killed thousands upon thousands of dragons and their vaguely-related relatives, and the draketooths get the dragon marks on their faces from having dragon blood. I wonder if it's a possibility that they've all been killed by familicide!"
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Originally Posted by ti'esar
I actually think an entire story full of characters like Tarquin would be pretty interesting... though hard to write.
Heh so much for all the Kilkil class speculation at this point at least because it looks like he really didn't do much. Its a shame Belkar didn't get a new Kobold wing jacket though.
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'Tear down creation just to see if you can.'
So, why did Tarquin leave his axe behind? He obviously treasures it, keeping it in storage and all. And a previous plotline made fun of how useless fighters are without weapons.
I for one am surprised that Tarquin didn't solo the whole party. he must be lower-level than we thought.
By surviving Holy Word, it's all but confirmed that he's at least Redcloak's level (17th). He could theoretically have solo'd the Order - he's done so before - but if he did, there would be a very high chance that Nale would be killed before the fight is over, as he was already in the negatives. Since Nale is Tarquin's only source of information about the Gates, Tarquin chose not to take that risk.
Tarquin still doesn't know Elan isn't the leader of the Order. In fact, he may be quite impressed with the ambush that he think Elan worked out and directed from a safe place in the rear.
The Order still doesn't know who The Man In The Iron Mask is; they don't know the LG's cleric is now Maleck and it seems likely they never got a good enough look at the kobold to figure out he's Tarquin's lackey.
Maleck should be able to Word of Recall home, but he doesn't know Tarquin's bugged out.
V knows too much.
All in all, a situation well-suited for screw-ups!
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Also, did Durkon just make the "Ax-To-The-Head, Splitting-Headache" joke?
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In Memory Of
Durkon Thundershield
May He Rest In Peace (someday)
In fact this strip is one of very few for which one could figure out what'll happen only based on the title...
After you've read #860 and #861 (i.e. you know the exact point the story is at) and #862 appears as a clickable "Pop goes pop" link, you immediately know Tarquin's going to teleport away.
Not that's it's a big spoiler or anything... just that usually, the title puns are a bit more cryptic.
In fact this strip is one of very few for which one could figure out what'll happen only based on the title...
After you've read #860 and #861 (i.e. you know the exact point the story is at) and #862 appears as a clickable "Pop goes pop" link, you immediately know Tarquin's going to teleport away.
Not that's it's a big spoiler or anything... just that usually, the title puns are a bit more cryptic.
You might also think he was going to explode or something.
__________________ group hug! Hold Person.
~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
I honestly read it and thought he was going to 'Zerk out (I.E. Popping being 'poping a blood vessel') and we'd see the fight start to sway against the order.
I think seeing the point that would make Tarquin loose his cool would've been good character development. but I'm not disappointed.
Regarding the arguments about Tarquin’s ability to use drow sign language:
Given that his goal is the complete political subjugation of almost an entire continent, is it really that surprising that a tactical genius would have bothered to learn the signature non-verbal communication method of a powerful group of potential allies?
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If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.
When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.
The discussion about Tarquin is quite interesting: how would you portray a very high level fighter, maybe even an epic fighter, to make him as menacing and intimidating as Xykon/a sorcerer/a wizard?
So, why did Tarquin leave his axe behind? He obviously treasures it, keeping it in storage and all. And a previous plotline made fun of how useless fighters are without weapons.
I'm going to guess that it's because reclaiming an axe is easier than to rehiding a secret. If the Order had managed to take any prisoners, they'd be able to interrogate them and might discover that Tarquin was on the team.
I love Belkar's line when he's about to finish Nale, and I approve of Tarquin's pulling skills out of nowhere. Yes, I know that's what some fans hate about him, but then again, Miko Miyazaki. I mean, what would you post if he took out a shark repellent?
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Originally Posted by brionl
He specifically said he only has the two sons. So we know he has a true-neutral daughter named Lena. Could be half-drow.
So, why did Tarquin leave his axe behind? He obviously treasures it, keeping it in storage and all. And a previous plotline made fun of how useless fighters are without weapons.
a) No doubt Tarquin treasures his axe, but he treasures his life more--and staying to essentially face down the entire Order (minus V) on his own would be suicidal.
b) We don't know Tarquin is a fighter. Just because he wears armour and fights with an axe doesn't make him one.
c) How do you know he didn't bring a spare weapon of some sort?
So, why did Tarquin leave his axe behind? He obviously treasures it, keeping it in storage and all. And a previous plotline made fun of how useless fighters are without weapons.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had yet another enchantment on it that could instantly teleport it back to his hands, if he so wished. All it probably requires is some extra rune doodads and a keyword or something....
Well it seems a massive discussion hating on Tarquin without me has happened. I feel almost left out by this.
I could weigh in about how it is another set of circumstances, reasonably well explained, that allow Tarquin to win and escape all consequence. I could, but since I don't think that I won't. We all know my dislike of T extends beyond the asspulls (I find him an unenjoyable villain to read about too). But in this case we have the sort of outcome that can make him a credible and yet not overpowered secondary villain. The order got the drop on him, hammered his party by playing smart, and then he retreated for all puposes because he needed to. Tarquin himself though is relatively unscathed, even if I personally doubt he would remain that way were he to not run.
All in all, this is the sort of thing I like seeing with Tarquin. Yes the knowledge he has can come across as a little too convenient here. It has for me in the past. But it is balancing out his successes with some failures/signs of weakness. Especially in his character development. And the sheer cheesy nature of the "luckily I can do x" line makes it a more funny asspull than most. I will explain more below.
The Good:
1) This arc continues to show how the Giant has stepped up his game in terms of conveying motion, movement and other such effects in the comic. Combined with the gradual dissipation of the smoke and the consistently good drawing it is a pretty neat comic over all.Especially in the small details, such as Durkon's holy symbol being in motion. Nice touch.
2) Belkar was pretty much on the nose hilarious in this comic. Crude and blunt to be sure, but out and out funny in all he did. His lines made the best jokes in the comic and were the funny highlight for me.
3) I like one element of what happened with Tarquin here, that nicely balances out any potential dislike of his convenient skills. His hipocrisy (badly spelt I know). Despite breating Nale for his shouting, and sometimes condemning self indulgence, he monologues to himself about how awesome he is all the time. It is a character quirk and flaw that I find most interesting. He is drama obsessed, and also with retelling old past glories. He may work behind the scenes, but he needs to show off whenever he can. It sets up a nice flaw that can be used to plot his later downfall, much as Miko's pride led to hers. And it adds layers to a character I had felt was a hollow image of the cool big bad overlord for too long (admittedly this had been started sooner with earlier strips)
4) The implications of this strip's events again are good story fodder. In general I like it when multiple potential plot threads interact and we have soem juicy ones here. From the axe being left behind, and Malack seemingly abandoned, to V running wild and the abscense of Elan. All in all we have a multitude of ways we can go, all intriguing. Bu thankfully not too many plot threads, and so we are nto going to be bogged down it seems. I like this. Very much.
The Bad:
1) It must be said that there is quite a sense of anticlimax to the outcome of this strip. We get good build, and a lot of good moments, but the climax of the strip is a halfway decent joke about drow sign language and a teleport out. Sometimes spells like that, while perfectly sensible to use, do kill the dramatic tension somewhat. Another example is when a character stumbles into a scene, half dead, and one quick healing spell later they are right as rain. It can undercut the drama sometimes and be frustrating for the reader. I am not saying it is implausibel or a bad move by the characters. But it is a case where this convention of the world can harm the story as much as help it.
So overall. I like this one. It is a good use of Tarquin's character and quirks, even if it feels like an abrupt and anticlimactic end to a good scene. *** for my taste certainly. Not much left to add except to say that I am looking forward to seeing where the story goes.
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If I cared about this, I would probably do something about it.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had yet another enchantment on it that could instantly teleport it back to his hands, if he so wished. All it probably requires is some extra rune doodads and a keyword or something....
And that's where I would throw the metaphorical table over.
And that's where I would throw the metaphorical table over.
Eh, I wouldn't. He has glamoured armor, a called weapon isn't that unlikely.
I would if he managed to get Nale's along with it, though. Or if he pulled out another axe as backup - a backup weapon, sure, but it should be like a shortsword or mace or dagger or sommat, not another axe.
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LGBTitP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti'esar
I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Energy Drain!
