Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Kato]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Actualy, after thinking a bit about it, i have come to the belief it was just Mirajane engaging in a bit of Ship-to-ship Combat, attempting to sink the SS Natsulucy on behaff of her sister.

That's what the last part of my paragraph meant, except more from an Doylist perspective.

have trouble understanding that first sentence, i do belive its a bit fragmentet.

Yeah... I'm trying to remember what I was trying to say but I can't recall. My bad

But anyway, Grey didnt outsmart Rufus, he defeated him by cranking his creation speed up to a point where Rufus could not keep up with him, thats just overpowering your oppponent, and it annoy me so greatly because i have seen Hiro do so much better, like in Grey's fight against Urtear, where his way of overcomming what was meant to be a counter towards creation magic were both insightfull and badass.

I don't know, it feels pretty similar to me. Yeah, creating this fast is kind of a feat of power but not as much as just making some rreally powerful magic to throw at him. On the same level, using your frozn blood is also a case of more power (and smart tricks). (I still hate how Ultear could make trees grow)


@Hopeless. I think Mirajana mentioned finding Edolas-Lisanna's dead body and burying her in place of Lisanna.

[LaZodiac]

Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Because grimdark is so, so DEEP.

Spoiler

Fairy Tail is not dark. It's upbeat, hopeful and happy. If it has to become darker and edgier to be deep, I hope it stays shallow forever.
"We thought that by making your world more violent, we would make it more "realistic", more "adult". God help us if that's what it means."
- Grant Morrison

Off the record, you linked a thing with Squirrel Girl in it. I have to love you forever now.

Anyway, yha, I agree. Fairy Tail is a totally not dark upbeat, hopeful series.

Where in the middle of saying "we believe in the power of friendship" the main villian nearly destroyed the entire main cast, and they only survived due to Deus ex Machina.

I'm just saying, there's a good chance Acologia might be the big blackness that turns the series dark, atleast for awhile, since it's clear that friendship power means nothing to him.

[ThiagoMartell]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

Off the record, you linked a thing with Squirrel Girl in it. I have to love you forever now.

Squirrel Girl is awesome. I stopped reading New Avengers when she stopped showing up.

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

Anyway, yha, I agree. Fairy Tail is a totally not dark upbeat, hopeful series.

Where in the middle of saying "we believe in the power of friendship" the main villian nearly destroyed the entire main cast, and they only survived due to Deus ex Machina.

I'd call that a very minor subversion, since said deus ex machina only happened because of the power of friendship.

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

I'm just saying, there's a good chance Acologia might be the big blackness that turns the series dark, atleast for awhile, since it's clear that friendship power means nothing to him.

I think it's just powerful enough that they emotions/friendship what-have-you are not enough. They'll need outside help (I'm guessing the dragons, as either partners or power-ups). I don't expect it to turn dark. At most some people dying for added drama. (This is a cue for lord_khaine's weekly "drama is dead in FT" rant)

[lord_khaine]

Because grimdark is so, so DEEP.

No, its actualy as shallow as its opposite end of the spektrum, this might come as a surprise to you, but if you move to the ekstreme end of either side, then you cant avoid the final result being kinda flat.

In other words, you need the dark to make the light shine.

Fairy Tail is not dark. It's upbeat, hopeful and happy. If it has to become darker and edgier to be deep, I hope it stays shallow forever.

Se above for why this is both false, and a bad idea.

I see your point, but isn't most of what Lucy does just "asking her celestial spirit friends for a helping hand"? I mean, we know that you can use some types of magic without having internal magic, and celestial spirit magic just seems like a good candidate to me since it is largely external.

I dont think think i can remember a singel style of magic that doesnt require some sort of internal magic, what are you thinking about?
And as for Lucy, while you could say that she mostly just ask the spirits for a helping hand, then she is still covering both their traveling expenses and their stay in hard magical currency, something that often ends up leaving her broke.
So while it might be that Lucy is just really weak, then it does look a lot like celestrial spirit magic is one of the most draining magical diciplines we have seen so far.

That's what the last part of my paragraph meant, except more from an Doylist perspective.

Ahh, you were a bit hard to understand there

I don't know, it feels pretty similar to me. Yeah, creating this fast is kind of a feat of power but not as much as just making some rreally powerful magic to throw at him. On the same level, using your frozn blood is also a case of more power (and smart tricks). (I still hate how Ultear could make trees grow)

To me its really just a different demonstration of power, speed kills after all.
And the way i saw it, Rufus knew what he should do, he just wasnt fast enough to do it. If it had been the other way around Grey would have outsmartet him.
Regarding the use of frozen blood however, then i do belive its more a case of determination (to cut himself that badly isnt easy in any way), and insight (realising his blood wouldnt be affected by the arc of time).

I think it's just powerful enough that they emotions/friendship what-have-you are not enough. They'll need outside help (I'm guessing the dragons, as either partners or power-ups). I don't expect it to turn dark. At most some people dying for added drama. (This is a cue for lord_khaine's weekly "drama is dead in FT" rant)

I wouldnt have to keep ranting about it if you would just stop playing around with the corpse pretending its alive, this isnt Weekend at Bernie's you know....

[ThiagoMartell]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

No, its actualy as shallow as its opposite end of the spektrum, this might come as a surprise to you, but if you move to the ekstreme end of either side, then you cant avoid the final result being kinda flat.

You see, I disagree completely that both completely positive and completely negative stories can't be deep. It simply has no bearing on the substance of a story. It's simply a choice.
As a sidenote, is English your second language?

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

In other words, you need the dark to make the light shine.

As much as I disagree with the thought behind it, that was very well phrased. Congrats.

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

I wouldnt have to keep ranting about it if you would just stop playing around with the corpse pretending its alive, this isnt Weekend at Bernie's you know....

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone agrees with your opinion.

[lord_khaine]

You see, I disagree completely that both completely positive and completely negative stories can't be deep. It simply has no bearing on the substance of a story. It's simply a choice.
As a sidenote, is English your second language?

Well fair enough, i have personaly newer seen it done, and the best works of fiction i have read allways made sure to at least contain trace elements of the opposite spectrum.
I guess if i acutaly find a story to prove me wrong then ill change my stance on the point from "cant avoid" to "can allmost newer avoid".
And yes, im from Scandinavia, so my syntax sometimes get a bit unusual.

As much as I disagree with the thought behind it, that was very well phrased. Congrats.

Why thank you

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone agrees with your opinion.

Of course not, in Weekend at Bernie's there was 2 clueless guys working hard to make everyone else belive Bernie was still alive

I just hasnt identified the other guy yet.

[ThiagoMartell]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Well fair enough, i have personaly newer seen it done, and the best works of fiction i have read allways made sure to at least contain trace elements of the opposite spectrum.

There is plenty of good work in this area, actually. Wanted, by Mark Millar has metacomentary on why it should suck but it's still very entertaining.
Stormwatch is pretty much this played straight - everyone is a bastard, everyone hates everyone and few of the characters have any redeeming traits at all. Sweeney Todd is also filled with utterly bad people. Hard Candy is about a psychopath vs a child molester. Also, that's basically the point of Warhammer 40K, or so I hear. One example I specially enjoyed was War of the Spider Queen.
In most slice of life stories, you won't find dark overtones. Turma da Mônica, Menino Maluquinho, Shin-chan, Friends, How I Met Your Mother, Amélie Poulan, are all example of stories completely on the lighter side of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

And yes, im from Scandinavia, so my syntax sometimes get a bit unusual.

I thought your spelling was weird, now I understand why.

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Of course not, in Weekend at Bernie's there was 2 clueless guys working hard to make everyone else belive Bernie was still alive

I just hasnt identified the other guy yet.

Hahahahahaha, I just really wanted to do an ironic echo joke.

[Anteros]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

I wouldnt have to keep ranting about it if you would just stop playing around with the corpse pretending its alive, this isnt Weekend at Bernie's you know....

Or, in other words "STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE!"

[Forum Explorer]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

I dont think think i can remember a singel style of magic that doesnt require some sort of internal magic, what are you thinking about?
And as for Lucy, while you could say that she mostly just ask the spirits for a helping hand, then she is still covering both their traveling expenses and their stay in hard magical currency, something that often ends up leaving her broke.
So while it might be that Lucy is just really weak, then it does look a lot like celestrial spirit magic is one of the most draining magical diciplines we have seen so far.

It occurs to me that Celestial Magic is really expensive (magic wise) because it's a very safe way to fight. After all you don't have to put yourself at risk and can just hide while your minions fight. Lucy really is the exception to that rule in that she sticks around and fights instead of just letting the Celestial Minions fight for her.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

No, its actualy as shallow as its opposite end of the spektrum, this might come as a surprise to you, but if you move to the ekstreme end of either side, then you cant avoid the final result being kinda flat.

In other words, you need the dark to make the light shine.

I don't agree completely with this. I do agree that if someone says that a story is more mature because it is grimdark you need to prepare for a very immature story.

I dont think think i can remember a singel style of magic that doesnt require some sort of internal magic, what are you thinking about?
And as for Lucy, while you could say that she mostly just ask the spirits for a helping hand, then she is still covering both their traveling expenses and their stay in hard magical currency, something that often ends up leaving her broke.
So while it might be that Lucy is just really weak, then it does look a lot like celestrial spirit magic is one of the most draining magical diciplines we have seen so far.

Porlyusica is a more powerful healer than Wendy, Mystogan went toe to toe with Laxus, and Erza Knightwalker was also almost as strong as Erza Scarlet. All three of them were from Edolas and so had no internal magic. As for the fact that Lucy seems to consume a lot of magical power, you could probably use Lacryma for that.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter! This one begins with Natsu looking at the designs of the Zero Division from Bleach laughing at the new character's designs. Then some random crap happens that seperates the party into their individual fights.

I'm a little freaked out by the paper mage, and how she says all her paper is god. Feels like a pun of some sort that we're just not getting (maybe since Origami is Paper Art, she's making a pun on how gami can also be read as Kami, which is god or spirit?)

Also, the plant lady. She's...a plant lady.

[DiscipleofBob]

I personally believe the main executor's weapons were forged from the ashes of two protagonists from an 80's comedy who died perpetually stuck in the credits montage.

Axe 1: "Oh man, we got this!"

Axe 2: "We so totally got this!"

Axe 1: "This is gonna be sweet!"

Axe 2: "So sweet, bro!"

*Axes high-five, music starts playing.*

"You're the best. Around. No one's ever gonna take us down."

[Kato]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

Also, the plant lady. She's...a plant lady.

She reminds me of Usopp


Well, we got some interesting battles set up, I guess. Of course FT will win, dying is even less a possibility than losing in a tournament.
And I'll agree on the god thing--- probably some joke we're missing out on.

[Xondoure]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

New chapter! This one begins with Natsu looking at the designs of the Zero Division from Bleach laughing at the new character's designs. Then some random crap happens that seperates the party into their individual fights.

I'm a little freaked out by the paper mage, and how she says all her paper is god. Feels like a pun of some sort that we're just not getting (maybe since Origami is Paper Art, she's making a pun on how gami can also be read as Kami, which is god or spirit?)

Also, the plant lady. She's...a plant lady.

Paper is kami in japanese. So yes it is a pun.

[lord_khaine]

There is plenty of good work in this area, actually. Wanted, by Mark Millar has metacomentary on why it should suck but it's still very entertaining.
Stormwatch is pretty much this played straight - everyone is a bastard, everyone hates everyone and few of the characters have any redeeming traits at all. Sweeney Todd is also filled with utterly bad people. Hard Candy is about a psychopath vs a child molester. Also, that's basically the point of Warhammer 40K, or so I hear. One example I specially enjoyed was War of the Spider Queen.
In most slice of life stories, you won't find dark overtones. Turma da Mônica, Menino Maluquinho, Shin-chan, Friends, How I Met Your Mother, Amélie Poulan, are all example of stories completely on the lighter side of the spectrum.

Are you sure they are completely on the light side here, no fear, embarrassment or anger whatsoever?

I thought your spelling was weird, now I understand why.

dam englishmen stealing a large bite of our vocabulary

Porlyusica is a more powerful healer than Wendy, Mystogan went toe to toe with Laxus, and Erza Knightwalker was also almost as strong as Erza Scarlet. All three of them were from Edolas and so had no internal magic. As for the fact that Lucy seems to consume a lot of magical power, you could probably use Lacryma for that.

But none of those people are able to use a style of magic, Porlyusica is a great doctor and herbalist, Mystogan has a backpack full of magical staves, and Knightwalker had her magical spear, but all the magic is in the items, without them they are significantly weaker.

A mage like Natsu or Grey on the other hand, would continue on fighting with full power even if you striped them naked.

As for the new chapter, annoyingly enough even less drama than in the previously.
-Surprise, Lucy is yet again seperated from her keys, i continue feeling justified in every harsh word i have said about celestrial spirit magic so far
-Also, apperently the magical champions of the entire Kingdom has their hands full with what is not even the Ace team of FT, clearly the king is only allowed to rule because the guild masters allow him to
-At least it looks like Mirajane is in the mood for some asskicking at last, so the chapter isnt completely wasted.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

But none of those people are able to use a style of magic, Porlyusica is a great doctor and herbalist, Mystogan has a backpack full of magical staves, and Knightwalker had her magical spear, but all the magic is in the items, without them they are significantly weaker.

A mage like Natsu or Grey on the other hand, would continue on fighting with full power even if you striped them naked.

Contrast this with:

-Surprise, Lucy is yet again seperated from her keys, i continue feeling justified in every harsh word i have said about celestrial spirit magic so far

Seriously, celestial spirit magic seems like a prime candidate for use by someone without magic.

[Hopeless]

Isn't Loke able to appear without having to be summoned?

Its just that these guys seem remarkably powerful to not have some kind of reputation outside of the head knight.

[lord_khaine]

Seriously, celestial spirit magic seems like a prime candidate for use by someone without magic.

I honestly dont see the logic here?

We have several manga's worth of evidence for how serious a drain on your magical energy it is to use celestrial spirit magic, if anything i would considder it the least likely style to be used by someone without a magical reserve.

Isn't Loke able to appear without having to be summoned?

Yes he is, but that just means its the celestrial spirit Loki who desides to drop by and see how its going, that has nothing to do with celestrial spirit magic, and is even more unreliable than it normaly it (but only a little, unfortunately )

Its just that these guys seem remarkably powerful to not have some kind of reputation outside of the head knight.

It just shows how good they actualy are at their job, though i dont considder them powerfull.

If you can go 1 on 1 with someone like Erza, Laxus or Gildartz, then you can call yourself powerfull, else you are not going to get past decent in my book.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

If you can go 1 on 1 with someone like Erza, Laxus or Gildartz, then you can call yourself powerfull, else you are not going to get past decent in my book.

Really that's not fair, there's a reason Fairy Tail is the number one guild in Fiore.

[lord_khaine]

Really that's not fair, there's a reason Fairy Tail is the number one guild in Fiore.

I just find it funny how the top of the kingdomes magical strenght is apperenly only equal to a random group of FT mages, chosen mostly for their ability to break in and out of secure buildings.

Clearly the only reason the King is still in charge, is that the guild masters allready have their hands full just keeping their members in line

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

I just find it funny how the top of the kingdomes magical strenght is apperenly only equal to a random group of FT mages, chosen mostly for their ability to break in and out of secure buildings.

Clearly the only reason the King is still in charge, is that the guild masters allready have their hands full just keeping their members in line

Except even the supposedly second strongest guild in Fiore gets the same treatment. Fairy Tail (and Grimoire Heart) seems to be an outlier.

[Xondoure]

Why do you think the governments always coming down so hard on Fairy Tail? Sure they cause a lot of collateral damage, but the truth of it is they're terrified of them.

[lord_khaine]

Except even the supposedly second strongest guild in Fiore gets the same treatment. Fairy Tail (and Grimoire Heart) seems to be an outlier.

Not quite sure what part you are replying to here, please elaborate

Why do you think the governments always coming down so hard on Fairy Tail? Sure they cause a lot of collateral damage, but the truth of it is they're terrified of them.

Well, it would explain things, but its the magical council who are doing the hard thing, and they should suposedly be able to rely on people like Jura and his fellow 8 saints if they actualy became forced to give FT the smackdown.
Not even Ft would (should) be able to stand against the combined might of the other guilds.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Not quite sure what part you are replying to here, please elaborate .

Sorry, the part about the king staying in power. I'm sure his knights are plenty capable of dealing with non-Fairy Tail guilds.

[lord_khaine]

Sorry, the part about the king staying in power. I'm sure his knights are plenty capable of dealing with non-Fairy Tail guilds.

Ahh, well i would say that atm it seems like the top 4-5 guilds alone would be enough to at least put preassure on the Kingdoms military (cant imagine any number of knights would be able to do anything against Jura or Rufus to start with).

And when there is such an imbalance of power, then i would say the King is only in position because the guild masters let him stay there.

Though i am also wondering about how Bluenote fits into all of this, it was said he used to be in the military, and he was a hades-class wizard, so why dont they have more people on his level of power, was he just a fluke?

[ThiagoMartell]

Sheer strength is not the only thing that matters in the world and the guild masters certainly know that. Sure, they could fight everyone and kill the king. Will they be able to trade with other countries after such a hostile takeover? Won't other guilds try to do the same to them, now that they are weakened by the fight? Won't other countries take advantage of the situation to attack? Will the guilds know how to run the country?

It's like saying the president's bodyguard can't protect him because he is not bulletproof, IMHO.

EDIT: Also, new chapter!

Spoiler

Is it just me, or does Mira's devil form look ugly?

[lord_khaine]

Sheer strength is not the only thing that matters in the world and the guild masters certainly know that. Sure, they could fight everyone and kill the king. Will they be able to trade with other countries after such a hostile takeover? Won't other guilds try to do the same to them, now that they are weakened by the fight? Won't other countries take advantage of the situation to attack? Will the guilds know how to run the country?

Doesnt look like there is much contact with the outside world, and i dont think the trade would be that important, or disrupted much for that matter.
And we have also seen DS's take on entire guilds of their own, so i dont think anyone below the top 10 guilds will be able to get a say in the matter.

It's like saying the president's bodyguard can't protect him because he is not bulletproof, IMHO.

I think this analogi is wrong, its more like that 4 of the Barons in the kingdom each has greater military power than the king himself, and he doesnt seem to realise it

[Forum Explorer]

New Chapter

Spoiler

OH COME ON!!

Just let the pointless mook die a heroic death! Seriously!

Everything else was fine but typical.

[lord_khaine]

Spoiler

Yeah, for a moment it really got close to an epic scene, but it the way he got saved ruined the mood.

Also, it did not improve things that Natsu apperently is going to stomp the head of the kingdoms magical forces.

Though it does look more and more like the next arc is going to take place in the past.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Spoiler

Yeah, for a moment it really got close to an epic scene, but it the way he got saved ruined the mood.

Also, it did not improve things that Natsu apperently is going to stomp the head of the kingdoms magical forces.

Though it does look more and more like the next arc is going to take place in the past.

I do wish there would be more tension, but honestly the way he was saved didn't bother me since it fit with what we knew of Lucy's abilities. A lot better than it could have been.

Recently I started reading One Piece, I finally got sort of into it after avoiding it for so long and I'm on chapter 206, Luffy is fighting Crocodile. I bring this up because the one thing One Piece seems to do quite well is create tension. It always seems like the straw hats are about to lose, and it is always believable when they win. Fairy Tail completely fails at creating tension of any sort, although it wasn't always like that.