Warhammer 40k RPGs General (Warhammer Fantasy RPG can come too)

[WitchSlayer]

Originally Posted by Fearan

I'd say, yes. Power armor, man, power armor. Also, it's not a hellgun, it's integratted hellgun

Which means that it will never run out of ammo. Ever.

[shadow_archmagi]

Rank 1 Rogue Trader Party managed to kill a Greater Daemon of Nurgle, apparently. I don't think we have any proof that it was a Greater Daemon, besides that it was quite large, acted as the leader of the daemonic incursion against an Imperial Shrine (and thus had a thousand or more plague zombies and nurglings under its command, as well as a handful of larger things.) Also, I think the GM referred to it as such at one point. We poured holy water on it and cut the hell out of it with swords we'd dipped in holy water (one of which was a power sword, the other just Mono)

This lead to a number of realizations and questions:

1. Outnumbering the opponent gives a bonus to WS tests. Parry is a WS test. With 45 WS, a Balanced sword, and two allies in Melee, I was looking at a 75% chance to block.

2. Are there any rules for what you can't parry? It seemed a little silly that a massive creature's flailing tendrils could be repeatedly swatted aside by my power sword. (Or, for that matter, that I couldn't hack the things off and leave it unarmed)

3. Accurate weapons are superb against targets with high toughness. Against a Massive target, it wasn't hard for our Navigator to get 3d10+3 (Archeotech Laspistol), which went a long way towards bypassing the 15 TB I think I remember the DM mentioning it had after the fight.

4. Soul of Adamantium says "....any attacks against him that possess the Warp Weapon Trait treats the psyker as if he possessed the Holy Trait." Unfortunately, the Holy trait does not, in fact, exist, so our group was unclear about what this power actually did.

5. What are good Accurate weapons? I couldn't find much besides Archeotec Laspistol when I looked.

[WitchSlayer]

The Nomad is basically the highest damage basic gun pre-Ascension level. Also with a new Navigator power that hurts demons and gives no fatigue killing Daemons just got a lot easier.

[shadow_archmagi]

What book is the Nomad in?

[WitchSlayer]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

What book is the Nomad in?

Inquisitor's Handbook.

[a_humble_lich]

Congratulations in to getting your face ripped of by the horrors of the Warp. Most are not so lucky. I hope your minds as well as your bodies remained intact. I remember my Rogue Trader would have a tendency to run away at the first sight of danger. Given your vast experience with Daemons, I'm sure there are several members of the Holy Inquisition who would love to have a little chat with you. And since you are a peer of the Imperium they might even let you live after the chat is over.

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

....
1. Outnumbering the opponent gives a bonus to WS tests. Parry is a WS test. With 45 WS, a Balanced sword, and two allies in Melee, I was looking at a 75% chance to block.

Hmm, I had thought that you only got that bonus on rolls to hit not to parry, but I could easily be wrong. When I run games as a rule of thumb I would generally give important bosses Combat Master anyways which does away with those bonuses anyways.

2. Are there any rules for what you can't parry? It seemed a little silly that a massive creature's flailing tendrils could be repeatedly swatted aside by my power sword. (Or, for that matter, that I couldn't hack the things off and leave it unarmed)

The only rule I can think of is that you can't parry flexible weapons (which I might say massive flailing tendrils could be). Of course, the GM has the right to say other things are not parryable.

3. Accurate weapons are superb against targets with high toughness. Against a Massive target, it wasn't hard for our Navigator to get 3d10+3 (Archeotech Laspistol), which went a long way towards bypassing the 15 TB I think I remember the DM mentioning it had after the fight.

Unfortunately, only Accurate Basic weapons do extra damage after taking the Aim maneuver. This means that the only weapon useful for that in the core book is the Long Las. Other books add a couple others (the earlier mentioned Nomad, the Hunting Rifle in Dark Heresy, the Bolter Sniper rifle in Deathwatch) but there are very few accurate basic weapons, because you are right, it is very good.

4. Soul of Adamantium says "....any attacks against him that possess the Warp Weapon Trait treats the psyker as if he possessed the Holy Trait." Unfortunately, the Holy trait does not, in fact, exist, so our group was unclear about what this power actually did.

In Dark Heresy Holy allows you to ignore the extra toughness bonus from the Daemonic Trait. For example, an Ebon Geist has a Toughnest of 40 and the Daemonic trait. That means it has a TB of 8 against most attacks, but only a TB of 4 against Holy weapons or Psi powers.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by a_humble_lich

In Dark Heresy Holy allows you to ignore the extra toughness bonus from the Daemonic Trait. For example, an Ebon Geist has a Toughnest of 40 and the Daemonic trait. That means it has a TB of 8 against most attacks, but only a TB of 4 against Holy weapons or Psi powers.

That's all well and good, but the implication made by Soul of Adamantium seems to be that it's a defensive power- it gives the Holy Trait to a psyker that's being attacked. Halving the demon's toughness bonus doesn't seem to apply.

[a_humble_lich]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

That's all well and good, but the implication made by Soul of Adamantium seems to be that it's a defensive power- it gives the Holy Trait to a psyker that's being attacked. Halving the demon's toughness bonus doesn't seem to apply.

Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough. On the defense, the Holy quality allows you to ignore the Warp Weapon trait.

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader p. 168

Warp Weapon...

...attacks made by a creature with this trait ignore physical armour unless it is created from psychoactive materials or carries the holy quality. (emphasis mine)

So that Ebon Geist normally ignores physical armour unless it is holy. Now only a few daemons have the Warp Weapon trait, and holy armour doesn't do anything if they don't. Luckily for my example the Ebon Geist is one of the ones that does, but I don't think a Great Unclean One would get Warp Weapon.

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by WitchSlayer

Which means that it will never run out of ammo. Ever.

I might lose respect for you if you confused "never" and "when the power armor's cells run out"

Which is usually a matter of days. Agreed, it's usually a bigger scale than we usually consider in RPG, it's still not "never"

[WitchSlayer]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

I might lose respect for you if you confused "never" and "when the power armor's cells run out"

Which is usually a matter of days. Agreed, it's usually a bigger scale than we usually consider in RPG, it's still not "never"

Actually it explicitly says that it runs off of your potentia coil, thus it never runs out (unless you jam in which case you just gain fatigue instead of jamming)

[Cikomyr]

Potentia-coil is a Techpriest-power source, right? Nevermind then..


Say, people, I have a question regarding my nice Radical Adept.

I am currently looking at the "Pentagramatic Ward" section of Disciples of the Dark Gods. That is good stuff for me! Especially with Unnatural Intelligence, I think I might create wards to safely summon Greater Daemons if I get lucky.

First question: its says for every 2 degrees of success on my Pentragram creation check, the Daemons will have -10 penalty on their WP to pass the pentagram. But the lore also say I can use the Pentagram to get a +10 Bonus on my Daemonic Mastery check (which, combined with True Name, Master Sorcery, would give me a bonus up the wazoo). Do you know if overbleed on my Pentagra Creation check would give me further bonuses?

Also, I saw the "Warded Weapons" thing, and got wondering if I could create a Daemonweapon inside a Warded Weapon, to further minimize its danger?

Also, can I create Daemonweapons with Mono or Lathe blades?

[Opperhapsen]

Since this is also the unofficial WFRP thread I shall ask a question.

I've got a player who wants to change careers. To do this he requires trappings that are not available at his current location, he is unlikely to go any place that has his trappings available anytime soon, and I've been very strict on trappings before.
Would you, as players, feel cheated if I let one player circumvent the rules and not the others? Or should I just damn probability and find some way for him to get a horse underground? Or should I force him to pick another career/wait for this specific one?

[comicshorse]

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

Since this is also the unofficial WFRP thread I shall ask a question.

I've got a player who wants to change careers. To do this he requires trappings that are not available at his current location, he is unlikely to go any place that has his trappings available anytime soon, and I've been very strict on trappings before.
Would you, as players, feel cheated if I let one player circumvent the rules and not the others? Or should I just damn probability and find some way for him to get a horse underground? Or should I force him to pick another career/wait for this specific one?

I'd always feel that disapointment is better if it applies evenly, so yes as a player I'd feel a bit cheated if one player circumvented the rules and I couldn't.
Finding a horse underground is a bit unlikely but pit pony's did exist and so are a possibility. Pit ponies aside I'd ask him to wait or pick another career, maybe one that could lead him to the career he wants.
( Does it have to a horse BTW, could another type of mount apply that might be more likely to be found underground)

[Opperhapsen]

Originally Posted by comicshorse

I'd always feel that disapointment is better if it applies evenly, so yes as a player I'd feel a bit cheated if one player circumvented the rules and I couldn't.
Finding a horse underground is a bit unlikely but pit pony's did exist and so are a possibility. Pit ponies aside I'd ask him to wait or pick another career, maybe one that could lead him to the career he wants.
( Does it have to a horse BTW, could another type of mount apply that might be more likely to be found underground)

Alas the rules specify a horse.
It even specifies a destrier.

Honestly I feel a bit bad making him wait.
He's got buttloads of XP he's waiting to spend.

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

Alas the rules specify a horse.
It even specifies a destrier.

He wants to become a Knight, I'd wager?

You can always pull the thing sideway. Meaning he cannot get any of the Mount-related talents or skills or stat increase until he puts his hands on a Destrier. And he cannot finish his career as long as he does not get these talents, so no career exit.

[Opperhapsen]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

He wants to become a Knight, I'd wager?

You can always pull the thing sideway. Meaning he cannot get any of the Mount-related talents or skills or stat increase until he puts his hands on a Destrier. And he cannot finish his career as long as he does not get these talents, so no career exit.

That's a good idea.
I'll make a note of it.

Still don't want to make the other players feel like he gets special privilege.

[The Glyphstone]

Ask them. Make it clear he's buying a 'dead level' that won't actually take effect until he can meet the requirements, but is still one level higher for XP purposes or whatever. That keeps him on par or even behind the other players, assuming they chose career levels they can increase where they are.

[comicshorse]

Just a thought but Knight isn't just a career its a elevated social position in the Empire. Who is going to Knight him ?

[Opperhapsen]

Originally Posted by comicshorse

Just a thought but Knight isn't just a career its a elevated social position in the Empire. Who is going to Knight him ?

That's not an issue, strangely enough.

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Ask them. Make it clear he's buying a 'dead level' that won't actually take effect until he can meet the requirements, but is still one level higher for XP purposes or whatever. That keeps him on par or even behind the other players, assuming they chose career levels they can increase where they are.

I'll try.

[Cikomyr]

any idea about my question...?

[Gavinfoxx]

Originally Posted by Incorrect

Here is a question; what does a noble in DH buy when he has everything he needs, and 10.000 thrones to burn?

I do NOT actually suggest buying Bolters. They chew through very very expensive ammo very quickly. There are other, more efficient ways to get good gear.

Take a look at that (unhide the cells)

http://www.mediafire.com/?824ubcddplwcr44

Instead of bolters, I would suggest heavily modified weapons of these types (for guns):

Assumptions:
-Extended Magazine costs 10 more per magazine, increasing ammo cost. Solid Slugs is 1 for 15.
-Plasma Grenade costs 100.
-Hellgun Capacitors (the smaller kind) cost 50 for one backpack, for any hellgun style.
-You can silence/suppress Shotguns, regardless of what the rules say, cause that is possible, but difficult, in real life, and apparently you can suppress large caliber hunting/sniper rifles in this game, too.
-Extended Magazines can be combined with Duplus Clips, but not a Fire Selector.
-Only doing one full ammunition load for the example weapons, under the assumption that if you can buy one full ammunition load, you can get more ammo.
-You can't Duplus or Extended Magazine a Hellgun Capacitor.
-You don't want to put lots of things, like melee attachments, knives, or Exterminators, at the end of a sniper rifle (anything with at least 150 range and Accurate).
-Expander Rounds cost 5 for 6.
-You can upgrade an existing integrated melee weapon on a firearm to a mono variant for the mono price.
-You can put duplus clips in a Hellgun that can fire normal charge packs.
-Maglev Impeller Upgrade costs 150, and puts coils around the barrel of a weapon, making it a hybrid coilgun/solid penetrator weapon.
-Hellguns that can use normal charge packs get no benefit from Overcharge packs.
-The full sized backpack ammo pack is 100, and gives between 120-150 for most hellguns, and 200 for solid penetrator and boltguns.
-A Photo Sight costs 200, and can be put on top of a Telescopic Sight, but you can only benefit from one at a time.
-You can benefit from an optical sight and a red dot at the same time.
-The cheapest bolt ammunition is an Acid Bolt, which replaces the explosive with an acid, and it costs 8 per unit.
-An ammo backpack for a weapon that uses both electric (as in laser charge pack) and solid penetrating ammunition has half the total number of each that it would normally have, unless the chemical propulsion of the bullets is removed (like for a coilgun, ie, maglev impeler).

So, up to Very Rare, Under 1500 Thrones.

*Pax Factorem Rifle (750) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Expander Rounds (166.67) + Silencer (10) + Photo Sight (200) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 1311.67

*Good Quality (600) D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot laser (50)+ Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) with Mono Upgrade (40) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Inferno Thermal Grenade (60). Total: 1480.

*Good Quailty (600) Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Solid Slugs (6.67 for 100) + Silencer (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35) + Maglev Impeller (150) + Photo Sight (200). Total: 1476.67.

While the Nomad is a Pax Factorem on steroids, it's probably not worth the price and difficulty of finding the thing...


Basically, Inferno Thermal Grenades are really really nice all purpose grenades, and getting an auxiliary grenade launcher is very good, and you generally want full auto capable weapons for the +20 to hit. I would get everyone Dlaku Crusade pattern Hellguns with lots of stuff added to them; use the Thermal grenades for things that the pen 4 isn't good enough for.

Also, consider using carbines with the Pistol Grip, like the Minerva-Aegis Las Carbine. Use that with a Synford Lockshield, and Carapace Armor. Good Carapace Armor lasts longer on a single charge than power armor, and the Lockshield gets +4 to armor to a lot of areas, and a carbine with a pistol grip can very easily be mounted in the firing port to get the full range, even with one hand. See if you can get a laser backpack that counts as a large scale overcharge pack (or get someone to overcharge it), to go with the Carbine.

A very good dedicated pistol is the Voss Hellpistol. It is a laspistol that uses standard laspistol charge packs (cheap!), and gets good damage and penetration with those. Get one customized to increase the speed of reloading, and get a bunch of duplus laspistol charge packs, and a bunch of other customizations for the thing.

See if you can get weapons that count as balanced monosword, shock swords, and have duelist's grips and tox despensers. This lets you:

-Use the hilt to do a low damage bludgeoning shock attack (think the officer's cutlass as a base), for nonlethal
-Use the blade for a low penetration shock attack
-Use the blade for a higher penetration mono attack
-Use the blade for a higher penetration mono attack with toxic
-Be very good at parrying, what with mono, balanced and duelist's grip. If there is one meleeist in the group, get them a Lathe version of the above (or maybe a Power Weapon version; it depends on how subtle they want to be), to resist damaging by power weaponry.

As needed.

[WitchSlayer]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

Potentia-coil is a Techpriest-power source, right? Nevermind then..


Say, people, I have a question regarding my nice Radical Adept.

I am currently looking at the "Pentagramatic Ward" section of Disciples of the Dark Gods. That is good stuff for me! Especially with Unnatural Intelligence, I think I might create wards to safely summon Greater Daemons if I get lucky.

First question: its says for every 2 degrees of success on my Pentragram creation check, the Daemons will have -10 penalty on their WP to pass the pentagram. But the lore also say I can use the Pentagram to get a +10 Bonus on my Daemonic Mastery check (which, combined with True Name, Master Sorcery, would give me a bonus up the wazoo). Do you know if overbleed on my Pentagra Creation check would give me further bonuses?

Also, I saw the "Warded Weapons" thing, and got wondering if I could create a Daemonweapon inside a Warded Weapon, to further minimize its danger?

Also, can I create Daemonweapons with Mono or Lathe blades?

I would say ask your GM for the pentagram one, it is kind of vague. Also I'm pretty sure if you created a Daemon weapon inside a warded weapon one would break, and yes, you can make Daemon weapons with mono I'm pretty sure.

[Gavinfoxx]

And yes, integrated energy weaponry if you are a techpriest or explorator is AWESOME TOTALLY AWESOME.

[shadow_archmagi]

I've been thinking of running a Rogue Trader plotline based around the following chain of events

1. Eldar realize Necrons are about to wake up on hive world

2. Eldar decide the appropriate course of action is to give the world over to Chaos and let their ancient enemy deal with their other ancient enemy. They plant a powerful artifact where a chaos sorcerer will find it, on a mining colony in a nearby system.

3. PCs show up at the mining station, and ultimately kill the sorcerer and take the artifact.

4. Players can't get rid of it because it's cursed like that. Players are hunted by Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos, and Orks (the Orks aren't involved, they just like fighting)

5. Yakety Sax, zany hijinks (that's three dotted letters in a row whooo hijinks!)

6. ???

7. Artifact is destroyed/tamed, planet is destroyed/saved, Necrons are stopped.

I'm not sure about the nature of the artifact though- What is it (A staff? A ring? A severed head? Something the players would take willingly), what powers does it have- Both on the large-scale corruption axis, and on the small scale lightning-bolts kinda axis.

Also, the precise curse that prevents it from being given away or destroyed easily.

[The Glyphstone]

As for the curse, just make it possessed by a demon, probably a lesser Daemon of Nurgle. It, by some warped version of demon logic, decides it really likes a member of the crew, or the crew as a whole, and wants to hang around with them. So much, in fact, that it'll teleport itself back to them if they abandon it, or repair itself if they break it.

[Opperhapsen]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

As for the curse, just make it possessed by a demon, probably a lesser Daemon of Nurgle. It, by some warped version of demon logic, decides it really likes a member of the crew, or the crew as a whole, and wants to hang around with them. So much, in fact, that it'll teleport itself back to them if they abandon it, or repair itself if they break it.

This of course also gives you the opportunity to create some hijinks when they try to get rid of it.
Because it's a daemon of nurgle, and no one wants that around.

Actually that raises the question of "Why would the Chaos sorcerer bother?"
If it's just a minor Daemon there's little reason for chaos forces to go loopy for it.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Opperhapsen

This of course also gives you the opportunity to create some hijinks when they try to get rid of it.
Because it's a daemon of nurgle, and no one wants that around.

Actually that raises the question of "Why would the Chaos sorcerer bother?"
If it's just a minor Daemon there's little reason for chaos forces to go loopy for it.

The artifact could be a focus item or something, an object that, while minor by itself, would be of unimaginable power if it's combined with the rest of its pieces. the Chaos Sorcerer has the rest, and the artifact in question is the last remaining piece. Except it's been inhabited by a Nurglish demon, who likes its new home and its new friends and doesn't want to leave.

Of course it has to be semi-beneficial to make getting rid of it a harder decision. If you take the pre-Liber Chaotica image of the Ruinous Powers, they have deeply buried 'positive' aspects, and Nurgle is the god of Life in addition to Death - maybe the demon occasionally heals wounds (when it feels like it), and attacks people trying to hurt its 'friends' (for its own definitions of 'hurt).

[Rikandur Azebol]

Make it a helpful, truthful and overall cool Nurgle daemon who dabbles in forbidden lores. And cheerfully talks with anyone about this, that or that he isn't spreading diseases. And can protect the wielder from ones, for a allegiance shift.

Grandpa Nurgle is swell fellow like that, and generous one.

[Cikomyr]

I have to say, I find your "Necrons are stopped" rather easy. How will the PC stop a wakening Necron army that makes the Eldar soil their pants?

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

I have to say, I find your "Necrons are stopped" rather easy. How will the PC stop a wakening Necron army that makes the Eldar soil their pants?

Sabotage the null-field matrix generator that's keeping a Tyranid splinter fleet from attacking the planet?

In 40K, Summon Bigger Fish is always an option. Always.