Warhammer 40k RPGs General (Warhammer Fantasy RPG can come too)

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by Maugan Ra

Oh, the Puritans must hate you

Actually, I'm moderately surprised you're not already dead.

They don't get a say in my behaviour so far. And I have played my char very stealthily so far, focusing on minor psi, shotgun action and adept stuff.

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Take some minions to boost your sorcery chorus or something along the lines, Cikomyr. Put greater daemons into your daemonic weapons. Hell, build yourself an weapon that have 666 blood-letters inside ? Forced to listen Imperial most famous-for-his-torture-like-voice singer all day for the slightest disobedience ?

Pony is a good option, if it is something properly awesome.

Lastly, you can try bugging GM about Elite Advances so you could kick ass like Pei Mei.

Elite advances... We already have rules for that. Thing is, I don't need so much suggestions as to where invest my XP, but what widely possessions I should try to secure. Followers and Pony are good ideas. Maybe the Eisenhorn psi staff?

[Rikandur Azebol]

Try to befriend Space Marine and gift their chapter with anti-daemon warded weaponry, hire Vindicare Assassin on an extended contract. Train convent of Adepta Sororitas with power armors and holy meltas. Buy starship. Hire Magos Enginseer. Learn whole Imperial Creed by soul, just to protect your soul from corruption ... of course. Sponsor promising preacher and give him unlimited authority to preach !

In short, gain whatever impossible influence/useful trinket you could dream of and befriend Puritans. After all, you act subtly, right ? Radicals are foolish after all.

Unless it's out of reach Cikomyr.

[king.com]

Ask for an accounting division so you can tax a planet into rebellion and heresy, you know your an adept and all that...

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by king.com

Ask for an accounting division so you can tax a planet into rebellion and heresy, you know your an adept and all that...

That isn't actually a bad idea. This kind of bureaucratic power is really the sort of things that can genuinely scare the other party members.

"Dude, we got to talk to you. You have to stop your immoral practices..."
"Why would I give up on my sorcery powers?!"
"Who said anything about summoning Daemons?! No, we just think that having the entire Hive population record their dental imprint within the next week or the world will have special bureaucratic measures to requisition any sort of food is going over the line."

[shadow_archmagi]

Is it just me, or is the Objective Points system in rogue trader kinda dumb?

I mean, the GM has to make up how many points an overall goal needs, and then make up various things that contribute to that goal and assign values to them...

wouldn't it be easier to skip the numbers, since they're utterly arbitrary anyway? If there were preprinted values it might be a useful tool for determining scale, but it seems that as it stands it's just a footnote that says "Dear GMs: What if you scribbled numbers all over your plot outline?"

[king.com]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

Is it just me, or is the Objective Points system in rogue trader kinda dumb?

I mean, the GM has to make up how many points an overall goal needs, and then make up various things that contribute to that goal and assign values to them...

wouldn't it be easier to skip the numbers, since they're utterly arbitrary anyway? If there were preprinted values it might be a useful tool for determining scale, but it seems that as it stands it's just a footnote that says "Dear GMs: What if you scribbled numbers all over your plot outline?"

Yea its pretty useless, it seems like they tried to implement an xp-like system for the financial side of things but its just far more book keeping than I would ever want to do when designing an adventure. It works for the pre-mades they release though.

[Maugan Ra]

Objective points can sort of work, but they take far more effort to incorporate into missions that you're making for your own group. Generally I disregard them and just sort of wing it.

They do help in the premade adventures though, so the players have a tangible reward for completing technically optional side objectives.

That said, I've yet to run an adventure for Rogue Trader (excluding the pre-written ones) where the players haven't gone off on their own completely unexpected tangent. I've started just getting a good overall grasp of the setting and improvising continuously for them.

[Cikomyr]

I have not read this mechanic, but it reminds me of the "Large-scale battle" mechanic that was suggested in the D&D Supplement "Heroes of Battle". Like, the outcome of the PCs during their small-scale engagements will add or subtract point to the outcome of the general battle.

[king.com]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

I have not read this mechanic, but it reminds me of the "Large-scale battle" mechanic that was suggested in the D&D Supplement "Heroes of Battle". Like, the outcome of the PCs during their small-scale engagements will add or subtract point to the outcome of the general battle.

Its more about every successful objective contributes some points and at the end of an adventure you add up all the points to figure out how much you get. Its unnessary book keeping that ultimately adds up to give you a number between 1 and 5.

[Andrewmoreton]

The Objective points type system is pretty much the only way to set up a system for quantifying how completing lots of smaller tasks compile together to complete a larger objective. Note that I said system, for a scenario/campaign you write yourself if you are an experienced and confident GM you can wing it and decide when they succeed or fail and how much they gain or lose.
However the points give you a nice way of quantifying which goals contribute more towards the overall success so you can tell which is vital and which is largely a waste of time, it gives a measure you can share with the players after their characters use their skills to assess how they are doing at winning the trade concession (etc). It is also a useful methodology for thinking about how a group may go about achieving their objectives by valuing the various options the GM can think of ahead of time,
I would largely wing it , as I don't tend to do a lot of detailed prep for games , but I know other people who would find setting out the various options and their gains to be very useful. Of course when your players do something from left field you can then compare their actual achievement to the various ones you worked out and assign a value to it quickly and probably reasonable fairly.

I don't think the method is perfect but I am not sure there is any better mechanical way to implement some measurement of progress towards achieving a larger goal for when the GM does not completely wing it

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by king.com

Its more about every successful objective contributes some points and at the end of an adventure you add up all the points to figure out how much you get. Its unnessary book keeping that ultimately adds up to give you a number between 1 and 5.

Actually from what I've seen elsewhere and my own look at the numbers (since my current GM hasn't bothered with it) it can be broken pretty easily. If you have a Barracks (RTC) and BG-15 Assault Scanners (BFK) you're looking at +150 points per Military objective, and an Auto Temple adds +150 to Creed objectives as well, which means that if you have a mission like

LESSER ENDEAVOR: Defeat The Heathen World (Worth 3 PF, requires 900 points to succeed)
MILITARY OBJECTIVE: Strike down their fleet from orbit (200 points)
MILITARY OBJECTIVE: Destroy/capture their secret asteroid repair base (200 points)
MILITARY OBJECTIVE: Capture their citadel (300 points)
CREED OBJECTIVE: Convert the general populace (100 points)
TRADE OBJECTIVE: Secure contracts with their guild leaders (100 points)

Players who complete every objective and have the components listed above will find that they're 600 points over, which translates into +6 profit factor, effectively tripling their gains.

Plus, you know, the Assault Scanners are a pretty great package, since they give a bonus to orbital bombardment, and the Barracks give a bonus to Hit and Run missions, so a militant ship could easily choose them simply because they seemed like appropriate choices for a warship, and then grab the Auto Temple because shooting churches from space is kinda the best thing ever. They don't have to minmax, this is something that could easily just happen.

[aberratio ictus]

Hello there dear fellow playgrounders,

I'm very sorry to interrupt your 40k discussion, but since you explicitly say in the title that Fantasy people can come too...

Does anybody know how to deal with crafting in the game? We're playing second edition, for reference, and one of us has just entered the engineer career, and since he has Specialist weapon group (Gunpowder) as well als trade (gunsmith), it would make sense for him to build himself a pistol. Our GM says she can't find any rules for crafting in the rulebook, so I suppose there might be rules for it in some supplement, maybe?
If not, has anybody of you run into that problem yet? How have you dealt with crafting?

I would be very grateful for any answers.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by aberratio ictus

Our GM says she can't find any rules for crafting in the rulebook, so I suppose there might be rules for it in some supplement, maybe?

Interestingly enough, we ran into the same issue in Rogue Trader! There are not crafting rules that we could find, (And if one system disregards crafting rules, it seems safe enough to assume) which I think means that it becomes a discussion between you and your GM about what is appropriate gear for you to build.

Alternatively, you can tell your GM that by RAW, you can build anything at all, and ride off into the sunset on your 200 foot tall smoke-belching death pony.

[The Glyphstone]

Rogue Traders don't craft. They buy.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Rogue Traders don't craft. They buy.

Rogue Traders, I'll have you know, Acquire. Nothing so common as buying, which suggests the incredibly crass system of exchanging money for goods.


Explorators and Archmilitants, however, might very well have hobbies that produce weapons, or at least weapon upgrades.

[aberratio ictus]

Well, it does strikes me as a bit weird that a system doesn't have any rules for crafting but does have entire careers named craftsman and artisan, who get multiple crafting skills.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by aberratio ictus

Well, it does strikes me as a bit weird that a system doesn't have any rules for crafting but does have entire careers named craftsman and artisan, who get multiple crafting skills.

Well, maybe they just realized that crafting rules in every other system are always incredibly broken anyway, so they might as well leave it to the DM.

[Atlis O'Maly]

i know not the game but it sound interasting. if i may inquire where is the group

[DontEatRawHagis]

Originally Posted by aberratio ictus

Well, it does strikes me as a bit weird that a system doesn't have any rules for crafting but does have entire careers named craftsman and artisan, who get multiple crafting skills.

I always find crafting, regardless of system, to be based on GM bias. If you are buddy buddy with the GM then they'll say "Oh you want to craft power armour, go right ahead, moderate DC."

In a modern/futuristic military setting one of our members crafted terminator armour with a working assault cannon. This is a setting outside of 40k. The only reason for it was the GM wanted to see these in the game, but they unbalanced the game a lot. Players with these devices usually end up being powergaming.

Here are two possibilities on crafting:

• Allows players to repair or make items that are already in the book at a lower price(Balanced)
• Second is crafting to make new and powerful items. Which leads to power creep.

[aberratio ictus]

Well, We'd be fine with the first option, as I said, our engineer just wanted to build a pistol, that's all.
What would you propose as an appropriate reduction in cost? Pistols are worth 200 Gold, if I recall correctly. Would a cost of 50 Gold be too low? I suppose most of the price stems from the work of the gunsmith, not from the materials used.

What about quality? How many steps of success until the pistol is of good or even best quality? Or should this be a question of gold, as an analogue to buying things? What about failing, are the materials ruined or could you melt them together for a second try?

[DontEatRawHagis]

Originally Posted by aberratio ictus

Well, We'd be fine with the first option, as I said, our engineer just wanted to build a pistol, that's all.
What would you propose as an appropriate reduction in cost? Pistols are worth 200 Gold, if I recall correctly. Would a cost of 50 Gold be too low? I suppose most of the price stems from the work of the gunsmith, not from the materials used.

As a DM I would roll with how much the materials cost as being 60% the cost, 40% for labor. Though its up to you to define the cost, it should be worth wild to make items, but at the same time they should have to give up some time to actually produce them(a day or two at least). In any case if the player already has a plethora of scrap metal from downed foes, maybe allow him to trade it in for metal or melt it down. Allow these resources to be used in the crafting process.

What about quality? How many steps of success until the pistol is of good or even best quality? Or should this be a question of gold, as an analogue to buying things? What about failing, are the materials ruined or could you melt them together for a second try?

Keep it Simple:

• One Dice Roll - Or as many as you feel. But I'll tell you now, no player wants to have to roll 40 something dice to succeed on making a pistol.
• Quality - Based on margin of success. I don't know if Fantasy has the mastercrafted quality, but it would be cool to add on a critical success when crafting.
• Failing - Again Margin of success. If Crit fail, nothing is salvagable. Maybe if it was only 1 away he is able to salvage most of the materials to try again.
• Quality - Figure out a good DC to put on objects. If a player is successful by a large margin, great quality pistol.
• Realism - If you want realism you could have weapon breakage rules. If weapons aren't properly cared for they drop in quality and are at risk to break.

Note: I never played Warhammer Fantasy, but I hope this helps you with your issue.

[Andrewmoreton]

Originally Posted by aberratio ictus

Well, We'd be fine with the first option, as I said, our engineer just wanted to build a pistol, that's all.
What would you propose as an appropriate reduction in cost? Pistols are worth 200 Gold, if I recall correctly. Would a cost of 50 Gold be too low? I suppose most of the price stems from the work of the gunsmith, not from the materials used.

What about quality? How many steps of success until the pistol is of good or even best quality? Or should this be a question of gold, as an analogue to buying things? What about failing, are the materials ruined or could you melt them together for a second try?

First you are going to need access to a proper gunsmiths workshop this should be easy if you are a member of the guild, difficult and expensive if not . I don't think a regular blacksmith's will do as the barrel is fairly difficult even before rifling. If in a guild say about 20GC otherwise way up assuming they don't have you arrested for trying to violate their monopoly. (I seem to remember WFRP had strong craft guilds like the medieval ones your GM may vary)
Second materials, this is probably fairly cheap you need fairly good steel but not that much of it, save 20-40gc (cheaper than a sword by a fair bit)
Then the problem with making it is unless you fail your roll very badly it is going to look like a decent gun but just be more unreliable than normal as it will be prone to bursting, although this may get caught when it is test fired. I think the steel can be recycled but it involves more than just melting it as you will have to try again to get the right alloy and that involves seperating the impurities from the iron so proably about half the initial material cost for a retry

[jaybird]

What happens if a Vortex grenade is thrown, creating a hole into the warp, and a Psyk-Out grenade is thrown into that hole?

[DontEatRawHagis]

Assuming that a Psyk-Out grenades dispel warp energy and that vortex grenade converts non-warp material into warp material then the possibilities are weird.

Think that Psyk-Out grenades are also made from the Emperor's rotting corpse.

Could be a very bad chain reaction, think if anti-matter met matter bad. Gameplay wise you could have a great chain reaction or you could just have a nulled effect.

I vote for the former.

[aberratio ictus]

Haggis, Andrew:

Thank you very much for your suggestions, they do indeed make sense. I'll talk to the GM about what you said and then work it out.

[Cikomyr]

I was wondering if any of you ever saw, in any books, the Psionic Nullifier used by Ravenor on his Untouchable?

I want to make it a gift to our local Untouchable Techpriest.

[*.*.*.*]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

I was wondering if any of you ever saw, in any books, the Psionic Nullifier used by Ravenor on his Untouchable?

I want to make it a gift to our local Untouchable Techpriest.

Page 42 of the Radical's Handbook.

[Cikomyr]

Thx!

Oh, and I just found what I will requisition next. Nice lil' thing in the Rogue Trader handbook.

Xeno-monofilament grenades. 4d10+4 damage, TEARING!

[Gavinfoxx]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

Thx!

Oh, and I just found what I will requisition next. Nice lil' thing in the Rogue Trader handbook.

Xeno-monofilament grenades. 4d10+4 damage, TEARING!

If you like that, you should look at this:

http://www.mediafire.com/?824ubcddplwcr44

Help you find LOTS of gear!

[Cikomyr]

Oh man, today's game was so much fun! During a battle, we got attacked by some sort of psi-leech warp creatures, my character failed his terror check and ran away..

To end up face to face with a Flayed One Lord. He swipes at me, which one would have killed me had my Rosary had not saved my ass, knocking me a few meters away.

On my turn, realizing that for the first time I am away from everyone, I use Holocaust. Most powerful psionic power I ever used... Which sadly completely did nothing to him, as he was immaterial at the time...

I went back to the main fight with the other people, who managed to kill most of the parasites. The Flayed One Lord kills the last one of them and take the Guardsman hostage...

The Psyker has accidentally jammed everyone's weapon on the last round, and the Techpriest failed at unjamming them all. I run to the Guardsman's installed Lascannon and actually succeed at my roll to unjam it. (turned toward the Techpriest, telling him "That's how you do it!"). Next turn, Divine Shot + Lascannon hits the Flayed One Lord right in the face, making him drop the Guardsman... He disapears..

We all know he will be coming back soon. The Psyker tries to draw his attention, but I am sure he'll be coming for me.

"Hey.. GM, I saw the Lord materialize earlier, right? So I might guess the tell-tale signs of his appearance?"
".... right... I mean, roll an intelligence and perception..."
"hum.... 8 degrees of success for intelligence, 4 degrees for perception"
"... okay, you get a free action as he appears next to you"
"SHOTGUN TO THE FACE!"

Triple-hit with the Shotgun, Righteous Fury, and I banished him back to his Tomb Cave!

I practically almost solo'ed a Flayed One Lord!!

I outshot the assassin
I outteched the techpriest
I outpsyked the psyker

BUREAUCRATS RULE!!!