Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report

[Emperordaniel]

Originally Posted by Matthias2207

What about General Grievous? He's a canon non-Jedi lightsaber wielder?

Yeah, but each and every one of his dozens of lightsabers was stolen from one of the Jedi he killed. Also, Count Dooku, one of the greatest duelists in the Jedi Order, personally trained him (as shown in the original Clone Wars cartoon from 2003 and stated in Revenge of the Sith in 2005).

I wonder how they'll do the brief scene where Han Solo uses Luke's lightsaber to cut open the stomach of his dead tauntaun in Empire.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Matthias2207

What about General Grievous? He's a canon non-Jedi lightsaber wielder?

Animated Grevious is admittedly one of the notable exceptions in that he is actually badass, though I'd still categorize him under 'how do we make this guy really awesome...give him lightsabers without Force abilities!'.

Movie Grevious...let's not talk about him.

[Emperordaniel]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Animated Grevious is admittedly one of the notable exceptions in that he is actually badass.

Indeed. One only has to mention that scene where he kills somewhere between four and six skilled Jedi in less than three minutes, out of a group that contained the likes of Ki-Adi Mundi (the old Cerean master who was the first victim of Order 66 to be gunned down on-screen), Shaak Ti (the Togruta Jedi Master of The Force Unleashed fame), and Aayla Secura (the blue Twi'lek Jedi).

Grevious also severely wounded the latter two Jedi Masters in that fight, and even inflicted some damage on Mundi.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf

Yes, but also is a cyborg. He probably has some processor for this?

Has anyone considered, why Grevious actually became a cyborg? He might boast, that he perfected himself, but I see an overconfident guy playing with lightsabers Tin Man style.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I think it's semi-canon that that is why only Jedi wield lightsabers, because their weird Force precognition is necessary to avoid mutilating themselves with their own weapon by accident.

Uh-huh. So, could someone explain to me why a lightsabre is [i]inherently[p/i] more dangerous to it's wielder then a sharp edged-weapon used in a similar fashion? Or do you think the average Samurai was in such constant peril of self-mutilation that no sane man would take up the Katana?

What's dangerous in this scene is having Luke as a totally untrained novice waving around a deadly weapon rather then (as the Jedi younglings did) a practice version that stung, but did not cut. And the danger is as much to everyone around him as to himself. Obi-Wan should be shot blasted for such recklessness!

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Uh-huh. So, could someone explain to me why a lightsabre is [i]inherently[p/i] more dangerous to it's wielder then a sharp edged-weapon used in a similar fashion? Or do you think the average Samurai was in such constant peril of self-mutilation that no sane man would take up the Katana?

What's dangerous in this scene is having Luke as a totally untrained novice waving around a deadly weapon rather then (as the Jedi younglings did) a practice version that stung, but did not cut. And the danger is as much to everyone around him as to himself. Obi-Wan should be shot blasted for such recklessness!

I'm going to assume sarcasm, rather than lack of understanding of weapon physics.

Lightsabers are weightless weapons, free of little things like inertia and momentum, that would lead a trained swordsman to likely fatally injure himself or a bystander the first time he picked one up due to being practiced at controlling such forces. And an untrained swordsman is just as likely to mutilate himself with a lightsaber as an edged weapon, so in both cases they're probably not going to live long.

Obi-Wan, on the other hand, has no excuse except for the fact that he doesn't have a practice saber to train Luke with.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Uh-huh. So, could someone explain to me why a lightsabre is [i]inherently[p/i] more dangerous to it's wielder then a sharp edged-weapon used in a similar fashion? Or do you think the average Samurai was in such constant peril of self-mutilation that no sane man would take up the Katana?

For starters, you can't touch lightsaber's blade (if it counts as such) without hurting yourself. Katana is also a single edged sword often wielded in two hands, which means it's not as easy to hit oneself by accident.

Accidential hits from a regular sword are painful but aren't as severe as intended strikes due to lower ammount of energy put into the swing, wrong sword angle and so on. All of this is not true with the lightsaber: hot knife going through butter doesn't even begin to describe the situation. There is a reason, why nobody ever made lightsaber nunchacku.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Obi-Wan, on the other hand, has no excuse except for the fact that he doesn't have a practice saber to train Luke with.

Perhaps. I believe it's canon though that the power level of a light sabre is variable, and at low power does not sever limbs. It's likewise canon that a practice saber can be "readjusted by a fully trained Jedi" to use in an emergency. One could easily infer from this (although the movie does not state it) that Obi-Wan did powered down Lukes's sabre prior to this scene. Given that he has a "target drone" to practice with, the lack of a proper training weapon to go with it seems a bit unlikely.

The strip however makes it rather obvious (as least to Corey's understanding) that this is not the case here. Given the authors' penchant for pointing out absurdities in the original and running with them, it's surprising there's no footnote to that effect.

[Gez]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

Uh-huh. So, could someone explain to me why a lightsabre is inherently more dangerous to it's wielder then a sharp edged-weapon used in a similar fashion? Or do you think the average Samurai was in such constant peril of self-mutilation that no sane man would take up the Katana?

Hit yourself very softly and slowly with the blade of a knife. Okay, nothing bad happens. You can even exert some amount of pressure without getting cut. To harm yourself, you'd need to apply a lot of strength, either through kinetic energy with a fast stabbing or slashing motion; or by applying large amounts of pressure.

Now imagine the knife is a light knife. Well, no amount of "slowly" and "softly" will change anything, you have grievously hurt yourself just by testing it.

Yes the lightsaber "blades" don't need to move fast to cut through stuff. When in the prequel they use it to melt through blast doors, they're not exactly copying Don Diego's moves.

Basically, it's like this, except it also burns.

[ChowGuy]

Originally Posted by Gez

Yes the lightsaber "blades" don't need to move fast to cut through stuff. When in the prequel they use it to melt through blast doors, they're not exactly copying Don Diego's moves.

You're missing the point though. Why is it inherently, and again I say inherently so much more likely that a properly trained user would strike himself with a light foo then anything else that only it can only be prevented by invoking "magic?" (And face it, there's not a lot of difference between "a wizard did it" and "midichlorians did it.")

Forget the carefully choreographed absurd moves shown especially in the prequel. Those acrobatics would be dangerous even if unarmed. They're there precisely for the reason stated above - to make the Jedi look as "badass" as possible onscreen.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

You're missing the point though. Why is it inherently, and again I say inherently so much more likely that a properly trained user would strike himself with a light foo then anything else that only it can only be prevented by invoking "magic?" (And face it, there's not a lot of difference between "a wizard did it" and "midichlorians did it.")

Forget the carefully choreographed absurd moves shown especially in the prequel. Those acrobatics would be dangerous even if unarmed. They're there precisely for the reason stated above - to make the Jedi look as "badass" as possible onscreen.

Because all of his training and practice are with weapons that have heft to them - you can't be properly trained without using proper weapons, and that conditions your body and reflexes in certain ways. He knows how to pull a strike at the last minute or to apply additional force to redirect his blows, and how to compensate for the weight of a blade. Lightsabers have no weight, no heft, and touching the blade is as harmful as being hit with it - he might only make the mistake of overcompensating for its non-existent mass the first time he wields it, but when you are carrying a 'vorpal plasma pillar', one mistake is all you need to maim or kill yourself.

[ChowGuy]

Because all of his training and practice are with weapons that have heft to them - you can't be properly trained without using proper weapons, and that conditions your body and reflexes in certain ways.

Which might be a meaningful point, if your implication was not that without resorting to magic, it's impossible to be trained in a light sabre - that no "proper weapons" for doing so exist - despite the fact that as I've pointed out, they do exist in SW canon, and that has in fact been noted in the strip before as well.


Nope, sorry, the Light Sabre is ridiculous not because it's so inherently dangerous to it's wielder, but because it's just an inherently poor weapon given the setting. Without the "magic" of being able to deflect incoming blaster bolts with one (read knocking bullets out of the air with a sword) the Jedi are dead meat. And yet Obi-Wan himself tells Luke that it's a weapon of an earlier age, "more refined then the [modern] blaster" implying that like the sword/firearm difference it's modeled on it came first. An admittedly absurd concept given the apparent levels of technology required, but hey, the movie was a "Sword and Sorcery" Fantasy In Spaaace and you can't have sword fights without swords, so....

I'm reminded a bit of the Indiana Jones movie in which Indy (ironically Harrison Ford) is challenged by a master sword wielding dervish - and simply shoots him. Thinking about that, I've got to wonder if that was a tongue-in chief comment on the stupidity of the light sabre.

Post Episode iV as things get more and more fantastic for the sake of "cool fight scenes" the Force-sensitivity that was originally required survive using such a weapon in combat morphs into being the excuse for using it and we get the "because we can and you can't HaHaHa" paradigm.


(**)More precisely, and By Word of God, a Samurai Movie - In Spaaace!

[The Glyphstone]

Which might be a meaningful point, if your implication was not that without resorting to magic, it's impossible to be trained in a light sabre - that no "proper weapons" for doing so exist - despite the fact that as I've pointed out, they do exist in SW canon, and that has in fact been noted in the strip before as well.

That wasn't and was never supposed to be an implication - I said that some schmuck who'd never touched any weapon before would be equally likely to hit himself with a lightsaber or sword, though more likely to kill or injure himself with the former because even grazing blows are more dangerous. Never said that you have to be a Jedi to be a lightsaber wielder, just that you generally only see Jedi lightsaber wielders because their magic precognition lets them avoid accidental self-decapitations, and the handful of non-Force-sensitive saber wielders are basically lazy EU author shorthand for 'character is uber super badass, 'cause he/she can wield sabers without Force powers'.

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

I'm reminded a bit of the Indiana Jones movie in which Indy (ironically Harrison Ford) is challenged by a master sword wielding dervish - and simply shoots him. Thinking about that, I've got to wonder if that was a tongue-in chief comment on the stupidity of the light sabre.

Actually, it was an improvised scene by Ford because he had dysentery, and didn't want to do the long and complicated sword duel originally scripted.

Post Episode iV as things get more and more fantastic for the sake of "cool fight scenes" the Force-sensitivity that was originally required survive using such a weapon in combat morphs into being the excuse for using it and we get the "because we can and you can't HaHaHa" paradigm.

Pretty much, yeah.

[turbo164]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Animated Grevious is admittedly one of the notable exceptions in that he is actually badass, though I'd still categorize him under 'how do we make this guy really awesome...give him lightsabers without Force abilities!'.

Movie Grevious...let's not talk about him.

There's also the matter of:

Prequel 1: ONE OF THE BAD GUYS HAS A LIGHTSABER WITH 2 BLADES!

Prequel 2: ONE OF THE (FUTURE) BAD GUYS HAS 2 LIGHTSABERS! (for like 3 seconds) (and for that matter if Obi Wan thought 2 lightsabers was an advantage why does no one ever carry two? is it a forbidden technique? :/ )
Prequel 3: um how do we ooh! OOH! ONE OF THE BAD GUYS HAS 4 LIGHTSABERS! *runs off to make the action figures*

Don't know how much of the one-upmanship was intentional but it sure felt that way <_< lol

[Emperordaniel]

Originally Posted by turbo164

There's also the matter of:

Prequel 1: ONE OF THE BAD GUYS HAS A LIGHTSABER WITH 2 BLADES!

Prequel 2: ONE OF THE (FUTURE) BAD GUYS HAS 2 LIGHTSABERS! (for like 3 seconds) (and for that matter if Obi Wan thought 2 lightsabers was an advantage why does no one ever carry two? is it a forbidden technique? :/ )
Prequel 3: um how do we ooh! OOH! ONE OF THE BAD GUYS HAS 4 LIGHTSABERS! *runs off to make the action figures*

Don't know how much of the one-upmanship was intentional but it sure felt that way <_< lol

One of Irregular Webcomic!'s earliest strips (pre-100, if I recall) lampshaded the constant scaling-up of lightsabers; it ended with one of the characters (I think it was Paris) wielding eight of them. Interestingly, the strip was made over two years before Revenge of the Sith premiered.

And while we're on the topic of wielding two lightsabers simultaneously: the two-bladed style, Jar'Kai, existed, but was relatively rare. Wielding a single saber already requires substantial concentration - take into account that dual-wielding pretty much any weapon is far more difficult than wielding either individual weapon on its own, and then add the fact that (with the exception of the hilt) lightsabers are essentially weightless, and you have a recipe for disaster for your average Jedi. As the Comic Irregulars pointed out in the scene where Anakin was dual-wielding his and Obi-Wan's sabers, he could easily have chopped his weapon in half - or worse, cut his own arm off, saving Dooku/Dookû the trouble.

[Gez]

This is the one you're referring to: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/82.html

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, the thing with two sabers is that it requires such divided concentration not to kill yourself with them that it doesn't really work unless you develop an entire style around it, Musashi-style. Most Jedi aren't going to focus on an obscure and dangerous combat technique when they're already some of the most dangerous people in the galaxy with one lightsaber (at least until the Inverse Ninja Law kicks in). Successfully using two or more lightsaber blades would be the domain of people who are geniuses at lightsaber combat, like Dooku, just really super-aggressive, like Maul and his staffsaber, or lunatics with multiple robotic arms like Grievous.

[Kato]

But many lightsabers are badass! And the kiddies like it. And it sells. So it's good. Also, in KOTOR if you use two light sabers you can have more stat enhancing crystals on them which makes dual wielding super effective. Okay, none of those are really good reasons but reasons anyway.


So... since today's comic deals with the superiority of people who limit their senses... has anyone ever met an instance where the "I am not left handed" trope was applied to eyesight? (Just curious)

[Friv]

Originally Posted by Kato

But many lightsabers are badass! And the kiddies like it. And it sells. So it's good. Also, in KOTOR if you use two light sabers you can have more stat enhancing crystals on them which makes dual wielding super effective. Okay, none of those are really good reasons but reasons anyway.


So... since today's comic deals with the superiority of people who limit their senses... has anyone ever met an instance where the "I am not left handed" trope was applied to eyesight? (Just curious)

Bleach did it, back before it started sucking. One of the characters wore a black eyepatch, and it turned out that he did it to give enemies an advantage while fighting him because he was super-bored and looking for better challenges. (The eyepatch was also magic and reduced his power, but he wore it as an eyepatch for the Not Left-Handed reason).

[Lord Tyger]

Originally Posted by Kato

But many lightsabers are badass! And the kiddies like it. And it sells. So it's good. Also, in KOTOR if you use two light sabers you can have more stat enhancing crystals on them which makes dual wielding super effective. Okay, none of those are really good reasons but reasons anyway.


So... since today's comic deals with the superiority of people who limit their senses... has anyone ever met an instance where the "I am not left handed" trope was applied to eyesight? (Just curious)

Only in terms of training- IE, "Learn to do this blindfolded, and you will be able to do it super-well with eyes."

[Emperordaniel]

I wonder if this laser-blasts-deflected-into-Obi-Wan thing will have an effect on later events...

[Hbgplayer]

Originally Posted by Emperordaniel

I wonder if this laser-blasts-deflected-into-Obi-Wan thing will have an effect on later events...

Seeing as they are only stinging bolts, and that in the Movie Obi Wan Ben purposely allows Vader to kill him; No.

[Emperordaniel]

Episode 782: It's What Dreams Are Made Of

Jim seems to be getting deeper into this "good roleplaying" deal recently...

Originally Posted by Hbgplayer

Seeing as they are only stinging bolts, and that in the Movie Obi Wan Ben purposely allows Vader to kill him; No.

Wheeere did I say it would be the cause of the death of Ben's character?

[Traab]

Originally Posted by ChowGuy

You're missing the point though. Why is it inherently, and again I say inherently so much more likely that a properly trained user would strike himself with a light foo then anything else that only it can only be prevented by invoking "magic?" (And face it, there's not a lot of difference between "a wizard did it" and "midichlorians did it.")

Forget the carefully choreographed absurd moves shown especially in the prequel. Those acrobatics would be dangerous even if unarmed. They're there precisely for the reason stated above - to make the Jedi look as "badass" as possible onscreen.

Because just about anyone human will drop their sword at some point while training, or even while fighting, and have it bounce off of themselves. Only problem is, a sword will bounce off, maybe inflicting a painful extra large paper cut, but a lightsaber will just go through whatever it hits. The other thing, and this is an important one, is the lightsaber, when deactivated, isnt really blatantly obvious as to which end the light will shoot out of. Especially in the middle of a battle. Do you really want to be holding that thing upside down because the handle spun a bit on the ground when you dropped it? Watch the fight scene between lonestar and darth helmet on spaceballs, and imagine their blades went the other way when they activated them. After you are done crying and holding yourself, come back and tell me they arent inherently more dangerous than a standard sword.

[Yora]

Oh, wow. Such a great joke with just two letters.

[Sweetie Welf]

I didn't expect her to play both characters. So Luke makes out with his sister, fights with his father, and both are the same person?

[Nerd-o-rama]

What a twist!

[ThePhantom]

Huh, I didn't see that coming.

[Emperordaniel]

And they're still not getting what DV really is...

[SaintRidley]

This is a thing of beauty.