The General Gaming Thread 2: Bundle ALL the Games!

[Morph Bark]

I'll just quote Triscuitable's OP from the first thread to lead us in:

Originally Posted by Triscuitable

I like the Steam thread, and I enjoy the stuff that goes on there. But I can't ever talk about just games in general, and feel like people want to go on this tangent, or even care. So I made this thread. We're here to talk about nothing more than video games. Be it your Xbox, your PS3, your PC, your iPod, 3DS, or even Atari 5200, it'll be spoken of here. So just bring up your subject, you'll see the exposition up here in consequent threads. So here's...

The General Gaming Thread

And other stuff. Seriously, just fill this thread.

[Triscuitable]

I tried to bring up Sonic CD last time, but it was quickly buried under Saint's Row 4 stuff. Anyways, playing this game again (I have the Windows 95 version that somehow still works on Windows 7), the soundtrack is horribly depressing, and is probably caused by how horrible I am at the game.

Also, Stardust Speedway. Best name for a level, ever. Music's great, too.

[Eldan]

I've finally had the time to catch up on my Christmas Steam Sale games. Mass Effect 2 is fun, so far.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Originally Posted by Eldan

I've finally had the time to catch up on my Christmas Steam Sale games. Mass Effect 2 is fun, so far.

I felt the plot to ME2 was much weaker, I felt much more invested in the plot of ME1, even if the CHARACTERS in ME2 were much better and easier to get invested in (except Jacob).

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

I felt the plot to ME2 was much weaker, I felt much more invested in the plot of ME1, even if the CHARACTERS in ME2 were much better and easier to get invested in (except Jacob).

That's because Jacob is just "Male Human Love Interest #4". I've yet to play Single Player in 3 despite having almost 500 hours of multi-player played so I can't say anything about the characters they introduce, but Ashley, Miranda and Liara are probably my least favorite in terms of writing and over all presentation. Jacob was just dull but in a less obnoxious way.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Originally Posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

I felt the plot to ME2 was much weaker, I felt much more invested in the plot of ME1, even if the CHARACTERS in ME2 were much better and easier to get invested in (except Jacob).

I really don't know what happened with ME2, it's like the main quest stuff and the side mission stuff was done by two completely different teams.

[Eldan]

Well. So far, I feel as if there isn't really a main quest yet, but people tell me it will stay that way. Still, combat is entertaining enough and the people are fun, so even if it's just recruting people, that's okay.

Jacob is dull, yeah. But at least he's not a giant bitch like Miranda.

Was Miranda modelled after some actress? Her face seems incredibly familiar.

[Triscuitable]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Was Miranda modelled after some actress? Her face seems incredibly familiar.

Yvonne Strahovski, who I don't think has ever been in a good franchise that took advantage of her acting skills without ever making me despise the fact that she's there for sex appeal as well.

Chuck? No. Mass Effect? No. Dexter? No.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Well. So far, I feel as if there isn't really a main quest yet, but people tell me it will stay that way. Still, combat is entertaining enough and the people are fun, so even if it's just recruting people, that's okay.

Jacob is dull, yeah. But at least he's not a giant bitch like Miranda.

Was Miranda modelled after some actress? Her face seems incredibly familiar.

And her forehead can break walnuts open with ease. But ya, the main storyline of ME really doesn't kick in until after Horizon and really doesn't reach a head until...later. It may have been searching for what it was, but I feel it does combat better (and more fun) and giving you a reason to care/feel for the characters. Even Miranda, who I agree is a total bitch, makes me hate her. It's a good sign when a game can make a character that draws those kinds of emotion out. I've been doing ME for a Let's Play, starting at ME1 because it's really the only reason I'm going to beat 3 at this point. One certainly does better with making you feel part of a bigger universe. But 2 for sure makes you feel like the universe is filled with thinking, feeling entities instead of cardboard cut outs that have faces akin to rotting potatos.

[Morty]

On the whole, I find ME2 to be a better game than ME1. Yes, the main plot of ME1 is arguably better and more engaging, but the side quests and characters are much better done in ME2. Not to mention the gameplay itself, which is also more fun in ME2.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

And her forehead can break walnuts open with ease. But ya, the main storyline of ME really doesn't kick in until after Horizon and really doesn't reach a head until...later. It may have been searching for what it was, but I feel it does combat better (and more fun) and giving you a reason to care/feel for the characters. Even Miranda, who I agree is a total bitch, makes me hate her. It's a good sign when a game can make a character that draws those kinds of emotion out. I've been doing ME for a Let's Play, starting at ME1 because it's really the only reason I'm going to beat 3 at this point. One certainly does better with making you feel part of a bigger universe. But 2 for sure makes you feel like the universe is filled with thinking, feeling entities instead of cardboard cut outs that have faces akin to rotting potatos.

And I've not yet seen a single dungeon that felt the same as another. Sure, there's also a lot ofewer of them. But I got realy sick of "Big hall", "Big hall with two side rooms" and "Big cavern with airlocks and two side tunnels" by the end of ME1.

Planet scanning is as dull as everyone indicated, but I actually find it sort of relaxing and meditative. Plus I can listen to audiobooks while doing it.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Eldan

And I've not yet seen a single dungeon that felt the same as another. Sure, there's also a lot ofewer of them. But I got realy sick of "Big hall", "Big hall with two side rooms" and "Big cavern with airlocks and two side tunnels" by the end of ME1.

Planet scanning is as dull as everyone indicated, but I actually find it sort of relaxing and meditative. Plus I can listen to audiobooks while doing it.

Ya, the one where you have to run around on a falling spaceship was probably the most fun I had in ME2 outside of the main story. I don't know if you can actually die there but it certainly makes you feel like any wrong step and you're done for. Wish there was more of that. As for planet scanning. Anything. And I mean -anything- beats the Mako. The Mako was the worst part of ME1. In my latest playthrough looking for Liara, I hit a small rock on a planet and went catapulting into the air like physics had just clocked in for the day.

And the planets are the most uninteresting and dull places to travel. There's nothing to see and barely anything to do other than check your map, go to the icons and leave. Scanning wasn't exciting or anything but at least it was fast.

[warty goblin]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

And the planets are the most uninteresting and dull places to travel. There's nothing to see and barely anything to do other than check your map, go to the icons and leave. Scanning wasn't exciting or anything but at least it was fast.

The Mako was a good idea with shoddy execution. It could have been great, a chance to really feel like an interplanetary explorer. Unfortunately the cruel and unusual heightmaps, sparsity of content, and wonky physics kinda brought it down.

Planet scanning was just a crap idea to begin with. Although compared to the writing, it's fairly low on Mass Effect 2's list of sins.

[Eldan]

Not that bad, realy. Some of the planets were really beautiful. And the physics were hilarious.

[Morty]

Mako was fun the first few times. Then it got tedious. In fact, this applies to a lot of ME1 side content, as it were.

[Tebryn]

I'd play a game only centered on scanning planets before doing one more level with the Mako.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Well. So far, I feel as if there isn't really a main quest yet, but people tell me it will stay that way. Still, combat is entertaining enough and the people are fun, so even if it's just recruting people, that's okay.

There's definitely a main quest, the problem is unlike Mass Effect where you're told "go here and do this" but you can put it off and go ******* around with the side stuff all you want, in Mass Effect 2 you're told "go build your team" but then the game will arbitrarily and randomly decide "Okay, you've done enough ******* around, time to rip you away from the wonderful character-focused stuff kicking and screaming so you can do grunt work for the Illusive Man again." I honestly don't think the stupid main plot would have bothered me as much if I were allowed to do it at my own pace.

Originally Posted by Eldan

Not that bad, realy. Some of the planets were really beautiful. And the physics were hilarious.

Correction: Some of the planets' skyboxes were really beautiful. I normally don't go for Sci-Fi settings but I'm a huge sucker for those multiple moons, gas giants, rings, nebulae, and exotic stars in the background. The planets themselves were awful for the most part as they consisted of a randomly generated heightmap with two, if you're lucky three, textures repeated over and over, usually all of the same color and saturation, with a handful of randomly placed crashed probes and abandoned campsites for you to find and loot.

The only planets that had more effort put into their design were the main quest planets, and of those I only really liked Virmire and Ilos. The other three main quest planets had more variety than the optional ones, but it was only between the "boring random heightmap with one texture" design that dominates the optional planets and the whole "Sterile soulless military base" design that dominates ME2 and ME3 overall.


That said, I do really like the idea behind the Mako. A game where you can explore the galaxy and just plop down on any planet you like and explore it is something I've wanted since I was 5 years old, but have never really found a satisfactory implementation of. I think it could have been really great if there were just 3 changes, though I'll admit most of these changes aren't as easy to do as they sound:

- Make the damned thing handle better. It can't do hills, and when you go over the smallest speed bump the damned thing flies into the air like it's filled with helium. I never got used to how the turning works, it always seems to take forever to make a turn when you want to make a sharp one, and lurches around 180 degrees when you just tap the key to turn slightly. Also, make the gun shoot where I'm pointing, not in the direction the barrel is facing. Yes the barrel determining the direction of the shot is more "realistic" but it's also frustrating as hell when I waste my M2 weapon and have to wait for it to recharge because it went firing way off into the distance instead of at the enemy I was pointing at.

- Put more effort into the design of the worlds so they can be as interesting and beautiful as the skyboxes and the text blurb descriptions. You can argue that the planets all being samey wastelands is "realistic" but look at a planet like Mars: Its got red sand dunes, dust storms, giant craters and ancient volcanoes, and even glaciers at the poles. Furthermore several of the optional planets are supposedly inhabited but have no life to speak of aside from whatever that green texture on the ground is supposed to be. I'm not asking that you make every planet into an expensive setpiece tour like Ilos, but a little bit of variety would have gone a long, long way toward making the planets much more enjoyable to explore.

- Finally, give the player better rewards for actual exploration. I went for a 100% completion run my first time through, exploring everything I could find to explore, and there were only two interesting things in the game aside from the collection sidequests (which were boring and dumb) that a quest hook didn't deliberately point me towards: The Prothean Memory Sphere, and that mysterious unidentified animal skeleton. Those two things were some of my favorite parts of the game precisely because the game let me find them on my own instead of pointing them out. Bioware, you don't need to give me a quest hook telling me I need to go to Planet X for me to have a motivation to go there: My motivation for landing on Planet X is always "Hey look, a new planet! Let's see what's down there!" Don't underestimate the creativity and curiosity of your players.

[Eldan]

You know, someone should just remake Star Control II as a Mass Effect mod.

You also remind me of all the reasons why Morrowind is my favourite game of all times. That game did exploration right.

Edit: one thing I've noticed. All the environments feel really small in ME2. Really, really small.

[warty goblin]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Edit: one thing I've noticed. All the environments feel really small in ME2. Really, really small.

Sometime in the late twenty-first century, architects will undertake a massive project that, upon its successful completion, breaks the entire galaxy down into a series of non-branching corridors linked by space ports. Even more impressive is this system's ability to form new passageways through previously impassible doors whenever a corridor is blocked off by rubble, fire, or any other hazards.

[memnarch]

Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese)

[bunch of text]

I agree with most of it. I'd say SOME planets should have the boring, samey appearance. Not everything in the galaxy is going to look nice, and when compared with the other nicer looking planets, I think it would give a better feeling of desolation. Planets like the one with those monkeys should definitely have more features to them.

I would also add things like the ability to pick between the Mako and Hammerhead and give the planets different features that would make one more appealing over the other for the given planet. Hammerhead can't handle bad weather for example, while the Mako doesn't handle mountainous terrain well. Throw in information about the planet like clues to the terrain of the drop-zone with the normal atmospheric conditions data and I think that would make for awesome planet exploration.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Edit: one thing I've noticed. All the environments feel really small in ME2. Really, really small.

They are. Levels and side quests in general are much much smaller in ME2 save maybe for Omega. They're also rehashes of the same maps over and over much like Mass Effect. Which makes me question why that was such a huge gripe in Dragon Age 2 when the problem preceded it by a few years in a game most consider some of Bioware's best work.


To steer this away from just Mass Effect, is anyone else here excited for Monaco: Whats Yours is Mine? Steam says it's coming in April but...it's April and without a word of it's release. Also, Mojang also went on record saying they're shooting for an April Beta for Scrolls. Both games I know I'm looking forward to.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

They're also rehashes of the same maps over and over much like Mass Effect.

What? No they're not. Even the easy-to-miss, optional side-quests in ME2 have unique maps for every mission.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Originally Posted by memnarch

I agree with most of it. I'd say SOME planets should have the boring, samey appearance. Not everything in the galaxy is going to look nice, and when compared with the other nicer looking planets, I think it would give a better feeling of desolation. Planets like the one with those monkeys should definitely have more features to them.

I'll concede that planets which are lifeless and desolate have their place: What I was really talking about was visual variety. Adding different types of plant life and artificial structures is merely the most obvious way to do this: There's limitless potential here for all kinds of natural structures impossible on earth that the designers basically left completely untapped. Take this description of the surface of Triton from Wikipedia:

Triton is geologically active; its surface is young and has relatively few impact craters. Although Triton is made of various ices, its subsurface processes are similar to those that produce volcanoes and rift valleys on Earth, but with water and ammonia lavas as opposed to liquid rock. Triton's entire surface is cut by complex valleys and ridges, probably the result of tectonics and icy volcanism. The vast majority of surface features on Triton are endogenic—the result of internal geological processes rather than external processes such as impacts. Most are volcanic and extrusive in nature, rather than tectonic.

The Voyager 2 probe observed a handful of geyser-like eruptions of invisible nitrogen gas and entrained dust from beneath the surface of Triton in plumes up to 8 km high.

There's no shortage of planets in Mass Effect 1 that are described as being this interesting, but there's a severe shortage of planets that actually deliver on looking as cool when you drive around on them as they sound.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Zevox

What? No they're not. Even the easy-to-miss, optional side-quests in ME2 have unique maps for every mission.

Really? It's been a while since I've done ME2 but I recall a few copies. ME certainly has them, just got done running through the same dungeon for 2 hours spread out over at least six planets.

[tonberrian]

I just finished entering a Golden Sun II data importing password. Gold level.

You may all start adulating now.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Oh, yeah, that's another thing I wanted to complain about: The "dungeon design" in Mass Effect 1 side missions (if you can even call it that) is completely inexcusable: They could very easily have designed the pieces to be modular and fit together more easily so the wall placement of each level isn't literally exactly the same. The cratespam "variations" are also about as lazy as it gets; it's what I'd expect from a programmer's first attempt at a procedural generator, not a professional human level designer.

Actually, this was one of the reasons I was both really pleased with and really frustrated by the Bring Down The Sky DLC. The first fusion torch is actually a pretty high-quality level given its limited art assets: The lighting's used to make interesting visual contrasts, and there's shelves of tools and a vehicle of some sort lifted into the air (obviously having maintenance done on it). The placement of objects feels like this is a place someone actually lives and works in, not just a really badly organized warehouse. This is a level I can believe in, and though it has no new assets it uses them efficiently and effectively.

Then, the second and third fusion torches? Back to the same old cut-and-paste cratespam bull****. WHYYYYYYY!?

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

Really? It's been a while since I've done ME2 but I recall a few copies. ME certainly has them, just got done running through the same dungeon for 2 hours spread out over at least six planets.

Oh, ME1 had them in droves. Every sidequest had you go to one of the same three or four different small buildings for a fight. ME2 however did not have any duplicate stages that I can recall. I distinctly remember thinking that was one of the many great improvements it made over the first, after I found myself getting very tired of ME1's sidequests partly because of that.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Oh, ME1 had them in droves. Every sidequest had you go to one of the same three or four different small buildings for a fight. ME2 however did not have any duplicate stages that I can recall. I distinctly remember thinking that was one of the many great improvements it made over the first, after I found myself getting very tired of ME1's sidequests partly because of that.

Ah, I stand corrected then.

[factotum]

I appear to be practically unique in this thread (if not the world) in actually liking the Mako, I see. The "interesting" physics of driving the thing added to its charm, IMHO. I think the problem lay more with the planetscapes you were asked to explore--when they actually gave you a pre-mapped area to drive through (as you had to in a couple of the story missions) I think it worked a *lot* better than the randomly generated crap you got everywhere else.

Although, even then, the randomly-generated crap was still more interesting to explore than playing that bloody planet-scanning game! It seems Bioware took the most-complained about feature of the first game and deliberately made it *even worse* in order to pay back the fans for complaining in the first place...

[Craft (Cheese)]

Originally Posted by factotum

I appear to be practically unique in this thread (if not the world) in actually liking the Mako, I see. The "interesting" physics of driving the thing added to its charm, IMHO. I think the problem lay more with the planetscapes you were asked to explore--when they actually gave you a pre-mapped area to drive through (as you had to in a couple of the story missions) I think it worked a *lot* better than the randomly generated crap you got everywhere else.

Eh, the skyboxes were enough to keep me sane as I meticulously sweeped each planet to make sure I didn't miss anything: If it wasn't for that my completionist OCD would have been overridden by my boredom. My favorite one was the one that orbited really close to its star such that it filled up almost the entire screen if you looked up at it.


So, all this talking about Mass Effect is making me want to finally play Jade Empire for some reason. Never played it before, so anyone have any advice for a new player?