Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

mattie_p · 09-16-2012, 06:49 PM

Welcome one and all to the eighth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful

) builds.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the eighth challenge get ready to marshall your skills for a Martial Adept from the Tome of Battle, the Warblade!

Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build from levels 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material (excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Warblade without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 29 September, 2012.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:

Spoiler

NAME OF ENTRY

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities

Code:

Spoiler

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage). For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list, similar to this:

Spoiler

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges.

Entries should be submitted via private message to the chairman.

Previous challenges;

A few administrative notes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Chef Chairman

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Also it comes with double prize money.

Allez Sauciers!

eggs · 09-16-2012, 08:42 PM

I had two ideas that were too obvious, so I scrapped them.
Then another that was almost a cliche that I had to ignore.
Then two others that were just too capable to work.

Then I thought of one more thing that I just know everyone will hate; I figure that's how you know it's a good call.

Thrice Dead Cat · 09-16-2012, 08:58 PM

Were said ideas using Crusader and/or Swordsage? It's definitely not going for style, but that is there.

Kuulvheysoon · 09-16-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat

Were said ideas using Crusader and/or Swordsage? It's definitely not going for style, but that is there.

If I was judging (and I probably will, if I don't compete), I'd take off marks in Innovation there. It'd be like using Wizard for a Wu Jen -pretty much the exact same thing, with only a small difference.

Eurus · 09-16-2012, 10:33 PM

Do it with a Sorcerer. Come on. You know you want to.

eggs · 09-16-2012, 10:35 PM

The other ToB classes didn't even occur to me, but now that I think about them, I'm having trouble not looking their way longingly.

mattie_p · 09-17-2012, 04:21 AM

Kuulvheysoon, I'm going to try to drum up at least one other judge, so please don't feel obligated to, you know, just because you've judged the last 5 or so.

ShneekeyTheLost · 09-17-2012, 05:52 AM

I think I have several of ways of doing this. One is Known Cheese, one is just painful even thinking about doing it, and one is going to get an extremely low Creativity score.

The Underlord · 09-17-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Kuulvheysoon, I'm going to try to drum up at least one other judge, so please don't feel obligated to, you know, just because you've judged the last 5 or so.

I'll judge.

mattie_p · 09-17-2012, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Underlord

I'll judge.

Great, thanks, The Underlord! That's one. I'll go find us another.

Looks like a lot of interest in this round, I look forward to all the entries.

Thrice Dead Cat · 09-17-2012, 01:42 PM

Sign me up to judge, too. Let's see how this goes!

The Underlord · 09-18-2012, 04:57 PM

I'll be working on my judging criteria later.

OMG PONIES · 09-18-2012, 08:25 PM

Hmm, never peeked into this particular flavor of Iron Chef. Color me interested as a judge.

Coidzor · 09-18-2012, 08:49 PM

Wow. This one looks to be a tough one.

mattie_p · 09-18-2012, 09:00 PM

To all the volunteer judges, thanks a lot. We can't do it without your help.

@ Coidzor: If it were easy, this would be the Iron Chef competition

. After all, we do come with double the prize money.

To all competitors - the battle has begun. Let us see what you can whip up!

Coidzor · 09-18-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

@ Coidzor: If it were easy, this would be the Iron Chef competition

. After all, we do come with double the prize money.

Yes, but I can usually see some way of accomplishing it. This... I just don't see any way. I suppose I've not memorized the entire body of spells, but very few come to mind as working to really recapture the spirit and style of martial adepthood.

So I'm going to be particularly impressed at any successes.

Midnight_v · 09-18-2012, 09:05 PM

This is a really hard goal to reach. I feel kinda bad, I fear my for my innovation score. ;(

mattie_p · 09-18-2012, 09:11 PM

Fear not, Midnight_v, for all sauciers doth suffer under the same constraints!

And honestly, martial adept was requested, and I really am interested to see how it goes.

legomaster00156 · 09-18-2012, 09:17 PM

I wish to see someone capture the feel of Warblade 20 using only Fighter 20 or Barbarian 20.

mattie_p · 09-18-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legomaster00156

I wish to see someone capture the feel of Warblade 20 using only Fighter 20 or Barbarian 20.

While build speculation if discouraged, even in jest, I would find that fascinating as well.

mattie_p · 09-21-2012, 01:03 PM

Just a quick bump to remind everyone this competition is still open.

While the competitors work on their builds, what other classes should I consider in the future? I am deciding between two right now, but some discussion may help clarify where I want to go and give ideas for future contests.

SheepInDisguise · 09-21-2012, 06:23 PM

I'd really hope for Ranger. Also, Druid would be nice.

This challenge is beyod me though. I have no idea what to do for this one, so I'll sit this one out.

mattie_p · 09-22-2012, 07:49 AM

I'm sorry to hear that, SheepInDisguise. Hopefully you'll have more ideas in the next round.

motoko's ghost · 09-22-2012, 09:42 AM

I've got a couple ideas I'm playing with, however I just realised my favourite one (core only martial adept using fighter) won't work, so we'll see if I can get something I'm satisfied with before the deadline.

mattie_p · 09-22-2012, 11:03 AM

So sorry to hear your first option didn't work out. I'm sure you'll be able to come up with something, motoko.

motoko's ghost · 09-25-2012, 03:37 AM

Well I managed to get it working...better, its no longer core though and I ended up dropping the {redacted} levels completely. The second backup one I was working on hit an even worse snag, so thats scrapped, luckily I've been inspired so I might have another couple of ideas by the time the deadline rolls around.

mattie_p · 09-25-2012, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoko's ghost

Well I managed to get it working...better, its no longer core though and I ended up dropping the {redacted} levels completely. The second backup one I was working on hit an even worse snag, so thats scrapped, luckily I've been inspired so I might have another couple of ideas by the time the deadline rolls around.

Whoah! no speculation in the thread, please, regarding builds.

motoko's ghost · 09-25-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Whoah! no speculation in the thread, please, regarding builds.

Whoops, sorry.

mattie_p · 09-25-2012, 10:47 AM

Any progress by other contestants?

eggs · 09-25-2012, 12:21 PM

I've got a few builds very close to complete (just skills and items left). I think it's just going to be a matter of resigning to one of them, and then actually writing the entry out. I'll definitely have something in by Friday.