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Coup de Grace is not in the game as i didn't think it was something Final Fantasy VII would have (if i'm wrong, please correct me).
What do you think i should do in regards to balancing Wisdom and Charisma?
When you gain a limit break through DMW, it means you cant select it again when it comes to choosing a limit break through level up as you already have it.
Just because you don't wear armour doesn't mean you can't equip armour (remember your weapons), its just you won't be able to equip as many materia as someone who is wearing armour.
In Mako Infusion, you apply your full Fortitude Defence to the d20 roll. if your Fort Defence is 16 you make a 1d20+16.
Any more questions?
Well the wisdom problem is just that at the moment wisdom is a very powerful stat and charisma is almost useless. I'd recommend making something wisdom does into something charisma related. Mainly because right now:
Wisdom
-Will defense (important)
-Number of extraordinary powers (important for SOLDIERS)
-Spellcasting (important)
-Perception (important)
-Treat Injury
-Survival
Charisma
-Gather Information
-Deception
-Persuasion (useful)
It's your system and play testing will find if correct, but right now charisma seems almost useless. Perhaps making spellcasting based on charisma might help, but then you'd probably want to alter the Cetra stats which means multiple changes. Another option would be finding another use for charisma so that people will actually want to take it. Moving Extraordinary abilities to charisma is the easiest option, but also has the least impact. Right now though it seems (since based on Saga system) that Spellcasting=Use the Force, but wisdom based now.
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For DMW thank you for clarifying that :) Same with the Mako infusion. Can anyone be mako infused by the way? Because it does list specific ways, but then includes a "or anyone who gets mako infused"?
Quote:
Just because you don't wear armour doesn't mean you can't equip armour (remember your weapons), its just you won't be able to equip as many materia as someone who is wearing armour.
Doesn't this seem odd though? Mages are the main materia uses and they don't get any armor proficiency, thus a mage can't equip as much magic as a tank? Also, where is the numbers for armor adds? All I see is the "Equip Materia" section which requires materia to be equipped to use it and then gives equip slots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_In_Da_Room
The game will be set during the events of Dirge of Cerberus, where the party will get involved in the war between the WRO and Deepground.
Alrighty, thanks. I'll look up more information on Dirge (only one I've not played) and get to work on backstory. I assume we are pro-WRO and anti-Deepground?
What i will do is make Spellcasting Charisma-based.
In the canon, only humans are seen to become clones, however in d20 any member of any race could become clones.
Mages have Armour Proficiency (light) as a starting feat (i think), plus mages could select Armour Proficiency (medium) and (heavy) when the can select a feat at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels.
What i will do is make Spellcasting Charisma-based.
In the canon, only humans are seen to become clones, however in d20 any member of any race could become clones.
Mages have Armour Proficiency (light) as a starting feat (i think), plus mages could select Armour Proficiency (medium) and (heavy) when the can select a feat at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels.
Just double checked, Mages lack Armour proficiency (light) so they could buy it as a feat, but it would end up costing them a feat to get more materia.
As for the spellcasting Charisma based, before I change the sheet do you want to test it with WIS first or shall I alter my sheet now? Are Cetra still +4 wis, +2cha? I'll go into detail with something and sorry for bringing it up when it is going to be complex but...well, it's not an easy fix and trying to think of one.
LONG thing of suggestions, pros and cons, etc
Spoiler
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Sorry for complex nature, but the Wis/Cha change is complex (thus why I said it's probably more accurate, but also a complex change). On one hand Saga only had one type of casting (use the force, thus the Wis/Cha split) while this system has Magic/Materia and the Extraordinary abilities.
Splitting it does add the wis/cha confusion since it means that SOLDIER gets benefit from Charisma (currently everything he uses is Wisdom based), but a regular mage gets a bit mixed up, because he gets the opposite (becomes Cha based with wisdom good for skills and defenses since they don't get extraordinary abilities).
In Saga (sister system, sorry I keep mentioning it but it helps to look at a current system that it is based off of to check for balance), the "Use the Force/Spellcasting" stat was Charisma, but it powered the Force Powers/Extraordinary abilities.
In this system, spellcasting has its own powers. I'm trying to think of the best way to balance it at the moment without too many changes (a complete wis to cha change would make races and feats and talents get confusing).
Here is an idea (brainstorm/bounce ideas back because no single person will be able to come up with a perfect idea)
Keeping spellcasting as Wisdom wouldn't be AS bad if extraordinary powers were influenced by something else, the downside to this is it would require an extra skill or something to be added.
I think the big problem with the reason for Wis vs Cha is because extraordinary abilities use spellcasting which makes the skill even more useful thus making the stat more useful. Perhaps a skill that was Extraordinary Abilities and making that Cha related might help while not completely redoing the current system other than to alter how Extraordinary abilities work.
Just because a SOLDIER can do lots of sword tricks and extraordinary things doesn't mean they are a magic expert.
Now to brainstorm what that would do is it would mean that SOLDIERS would function similar to Jedi. Their Extraordinary abilities would make them powerful and each one would be diverse, but all stats are useful for different reasons. IE: Str, Dex, Con=Martial sword fighter type. Int=skills, Wis+Cha=Extraordinary abilities. (Similar to Jedi the "Extraordinary" skill whatever it is would be Cha, while you keep the number of powers learned as Wis). Now if a SOLDIER wanted to be a caster he can still keep Wisdom high for skills. But it prevents one SOLDIER from pumping just wisdom and getting spellcasting, lots of extraordinary abilities, and high will saves, because if he does his extraordinary abilities or physical attacks (Str or Cha) will be weaker. Thus dividing it out.
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(Just tossing numbers around here)
CURRENT SYSTEM (Wis is spellcasting, Spellcasting powers extraordinary abilities)
A SOLDIER could take one feat (Materia training: Magic) and with one stat would control how many extraordinary powers he gets, how strong his materia is, and how strong his powers are. In addition he'd have good will saves and useful skills. He could pump Wisdom (primary), and then pick between the other physical skills as the next highest (thus dumping cha and int). He ends up being a physical and mental powerhouse.
A mage at the moment can pump one stat, but it leaves him with just the strength of his materia (same with every class, but he focuses on it). Personally, it looks like a mage is a SAD class, but it focuses on only one aspect. Thus Wisdom for them is the equivalent of a Str for a melee brute, dex for ranged, etc. I don't think this is a problem, but feel free to comment.
WITH AN EXTRA SKILL
A SOLDIER is capable of doing it all, but he needs to pick where to put his stats. If he pumps strength he can be a melee brute, dex a dodge monkey/ranged fighter, Wisdom he gets spellcasting, Charisma he gets powerful extraordinary abilities. It ends up becoming a MAD class, but only if a player focuses on everything. By focusing, a SOLDIER is still strong, but he needs at least two stats per focus (Wis+Cha for super powers, Str+Con/Dex for physical powers, Dex+Con for ranged, etc).
A Mage isn't touched at all so scrolling up will reveal that. Regular melee and ranged people aren't touched at all. In general most classes stay the same.
MAKING SPELLCASTING CHARISMA BASED
A SOLDIER is hit exactly as he would be in the Extra skill category so scroll up for what this would do.
A Mage swaps Wisdom for Charisma. He pumps Charisma instead of Wisdom, and hits up Wisdom just for the saves. In fact a low Wisdom would benefit the mage in this because he can limit break more often. In general it is a decent fix, but it makes Mage Cha focused not Wisdom focused (Mages are sorcerers instead of clerics).
Regular people are again mostly uneffected. Just means if they want to cast they get higher charisma. It does force others to spread from either "high will saves" "high perception" vs "high spellcasting" "high persuasion".
Really the only bad thing about this is that it means you might want to look at races again (certain magic attuned races were +wis, certain bad at magic races were -wis). In general it is different than option two, but not better or worse.
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So with those numbers tossed out it depends on your goal. I think either making spellcasting charisma based OR adding a skill that powers extraordinary abilities (that is charisma based) will help. But each one has pros and cons that I listed.
Sorry this is so long >.> Trying to help as much as possible.
Edit: Would you prefer I keep post like this in the Homebrew thread that you posted that nobody commented on to keep this thread clean?
I really appreciate all the help you are giving me, and thank you. we will playtest the current system and these changes will be made for the next version's release.
i think i will go with....changing Spellcasting from Wis-based to Cha-based .
I know it may seem like an odd question but what does everyone think of the rules concerning breeding/racing chocobos in the monster manual?
Reading now. Just a heads up, not sure if something is wrong with my file but I can't see the "breed results" table cause it is covered up by the rules on betting.
Personally I find the fact that you devised a mechanic for this really cool and shows dedication to the process. I know most people wouldn't have actually done something like this.
It looks like most racers would only pump dex though since it effects initiative and how much they move forward. Strength would only need to be high enough to carry players and only if they were a traveler.
Perhaps something to encourage other stats would be nice? Not sure what, but maybe Charisma for bonuses to breeding (Pimp chocobo gets all the ladies) or Con for the ability to do a "sprint" or something in a race? I don't know, just tossing out ideas.
Either way, love the system. Just saying that most people will make their Chocobo the god of dex and ignore everything else with current set up.
Anyways, I missed it at first and thanks for pointing it out. It's super cool.
I really appreciate all the help you are giving me, and thank you. we will playtest the current system and these changes will be made for the next version's release.
i think i will go with....changing Spellcasting from Wis-based to Cha-based .
*nods* Works for me. You might want to (when working on next release) look over some of the races and see if you want any changes with that.
So for now keep character as it is in book though right? (wanna make sure I don't change something)
One other thing to note might be the power of a few spells (some suck, some are great).
Example:
-Death (1 MP)
Perhaps an accuracy penalty or something on this? Because at the moment at level 1, I have a +11 to spellcasting (if I took skill focus that would be a +16). It only requires that I beat a Magic Defense and instant defeat. IE: I point at someone and go "drop". An auto knocked all the way down the condition track as a persistent is a bit rough. Normally in the games it was inaccurate or had some other balance factor. Right now, despite not killing it is pretty easy to just drop somebody.
Compare to
-Blizzard
I understand one is a starting skill so not the best comparison, but right now a death can one shot someone of any level while a blizzard does 1d10 per magic point (up to wisdom modifier).
Compare to
-Bio
This one is also a starting skill but lets look at it. Even with 1 MP it still hits for 2d6 and then 1d8 per round. So in general it is probably going to be better than blizzard. In addition, each mako point powers up BOTH dice (thus a 2MP blizzard is 2d10 while a 2MP Bio is 3d6+2d8). In addition to extra damage if you beat the defense by 5 or more.
It's not an overpowered skill really, but compared to the others it makes them look lack luster. (Then again elemental weaknesses might help balance this out more, play test will decide that)
*While speaking of Bio, I got a mechanics question not a "things I've noticed" I've seen comments like "The target’s Constitution modifier applies to each." Or "Your constitution modifier applies to this". I'm digging around in rule book but what is this saying?
One other thing to note might be the power of a few spells (some suck, some are great).
Example:
-Death (1 MP)
Perhaps an accuracy penalty or something on this? Because at the moment at level 1, I have a +11 to spellcasting (if I took skill focus that would be a +16). It only requires that I beat a Magic Defense and instant defeat. IE: I point at someone and go "drop". An auto knocked all the way down the condition track as a persistent is a bit rough. Normally in the games it was inaccurate or had some other balance factor. Right now, despite not killing it is pretty easy to just drop somebody.
Compare to
-Blizzard
I understand one is a starting skill so not the best comparison, but right now a death can one shot someone of any level while a blizzard does 1d10 per magic point (up to wisdom modifier).
Compare to
-Bio
This one is also a starting skill but lets look at it. Even with 1 MP it still hits for 2d6 and then 1d8 per round. So in general it is probably going to be better than blizzard. In addition, each mako point powers up BOTH dice (thus a 2MP blizzard is 2d10 while a 2MP Bio is 3d6+2d8). In addition to extra damage if you beat the defense by 5 or more.
It's not an overpowered skill really, but compared to the others it makes them look lack luster. (Then again elemental weaknesses might help balance this out more, play test will decide that)
*While speaking of Bio, I got a mechanics question not a "things I've noticed" I've seen comments like "The target’s Constitution modifier applies to each." Or "Your constitution modifier applies to this". I'm digging around in rule book but what is this saying?
We can have a shuffle around with the spells to make them more balanced. as for the other thing, it basically means that the target (or your)'s Constitution modifier (if any) adds to the damage roll of the spell.
Then I'll run away. Because a mage that can't bio or death when I can only afford one piece of materia means I'm doomed :P (and can only equip two out of my three)
Edit: Wait, I'll trip one of the party members then run away. Hell, why trip. I'll death one so he is knocked out then run away.
Good Point lol. i SERIOUSLY need to work on the materia prices . To start with, Ultima will definely be doubled in price.
Awwwww...
On a side note I asked it but not sure if you answered and I missed it or you missed it amidst all my other questions. Can I make some haggle rolls before the game to try and buy materia :P
Also, i have thought of an accuracy penalty for the Death spell. it will be added to the SPECIAL line of the spell:
If the target of this spell whose character level is higher than that of yours, you recieve a penalty to your Spellcasting check equal to one-half the target's character level (rounded-down).
Also, i have thought of an accuracy penalty for the Death spell. it will be added to the SPECIAL line of the spell:
If the target of this spell whose character level is higher than that of yours, you recieve a penalty to your Spellcasting check equal to one-half the target's character level (rounded-down).
what do you think?
Not bad, still kills mooks, but the problem is that skill checks are easier to optimize than defenses. The big problem is how often it won't matter.
At level 1, death can still kill almost anything (IE: +11 without skill focus, optimized players can get that to a +16 easily).
At high levels it is definitely more balanced.
Example: Final boss. Let's say 18 vs 20. Level 18 would a +9, by now optimized casters can have 28 Wisdom, so +9 so thats +18, skill focus and skill training is a +28.
Let's compare this to the stat block for Sephiroth (cause don't want to build a level 20) and you have 36. Subtract 10 from the caster and they probably have a +18 vs a 36. Thus unlikely they will kill, but that's not counting Mako Points any other feats, etc.
The problem however is that high levels it balances, but low levels it will be slaughtering most anything.
So I don't think a debuff based on level is a good idea. Personally, I'm thinking it might be better to run it similar to stun from Saga (which was also pretty damn strong early on, but not an auto-win usually) where it is a CT track killer and for each 5 you beat the magic defense you knock them an extra 1 down.
Downside is at higher levels death is bad, but then again death usually was inaccurate against strong foes.
If you could be so kind to do so, but i'm not worried either way. i wonder why no one will post on the homebrew thread of mine? any advice?
No idea, honestly I rarely post in the homebrew and only went to check if any of my points had been brought up before. I was surprised nobody commented in it. Maybe I can quote my points in yours and more people will comment in order to jump on the discussion bandwagon. Once I make this post, I'll start copy pasting in hopes of spurring conversation in your thread. (Sometimes people don't wanna be first)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_In_Da_Room
You can't haggle, unfortunately, but i will give you the chance to change your materia .
The rules i posted state you start with max gil. have you spent all of it already? if so, on what, may i ask?
Eh I figured, but decided to ask anyways.
Spent all my money on Death :P All my starting gold went to that. I suppose I should not get death and buy stuff more fitting a level 1, but it was a pretty hilarious idea to just go "bang". With that in mind might want a level restriction or a redo of death (as seen in post above.
Thanks . When it comes to the Death spell, i'll change it to be similar to SAGA's stun ability, like you said.
In the meantime, I'll drop the spell and buy things more in line with a level 1 player.
While I can point out things that are broken (and it is good to do so to prevent those from being in the final version) I'll see how basic things work.
I'll repost my sheet once I finish editing it. (Also posted in your thread. I hope it causes some chatter).
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