[3.5] The Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground (V.1 ~ V.28)

[Terumitsu]

Well, one could teleport into the Tomb of Horrors with a Talisman of the Sphere and use the one in that one statue's mouth. That's the closest thing to RAW I can think of.

Also, Beat the Karma ability with the Level 3 cleric spell called Delay Death. And then infinite damage thing in the next round and then just use a heal spell of your choice

[ericgrau]

For version 8 version 9 (same tactic):
Archmage with planeshift spell like ability. Supernatural transformation feat to convert it to a supernatural ability. Supernatural abilities don't allow spell resistance.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Keep planeshifting it to the positive energy plane until you roll a natural 20 and it rolls a natural 1
Wait several million rounds for it to die.

Because the damage does not come from me I am safe from stuffy doll karma.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

I've got it now

Additional ability:

Spoiler

Karma (Su)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma, however If the Stuffy Doll were to get harmed by say falling off a cliff then only the Stuffy Doll would take damage.

EDIT: Sorry for not mentioning anything about the Sphere of Annihilation If you can find a RAW (or RACSD) method of gaining a Sphere of Annihilation, by all means feel free to use it

Take Leadership and get a cohort to do whatever kill-trick works.

[ryu]

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

Edit:
Wish, miracle, or if rule zero with pizza bribes. All within raw. Also combinations.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by ryu

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something.

[ryu]

People have already said get a cohort to do it.

[Darth_Versity]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something.

Whatever your problem... There's a wizard for that!*



*Please note that by wizard I am refering to Arcane Casters in general.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by ericgrau

For version 8:
Archmage with planeshift spell like ability. Supernatural transformation feat to convert it to a supernatural ability. Supernatural abilities don't allow spell resistance.

Pact of return
Wait to die and come back
Keep planeshifting it to the positive energy plane until you roll a natural 20 and it rolls a natural 1
Wait several million rounds for it to die.

I actually like this one and find it quite entertaining. +1 cookie.

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Take Leadership and get a cohort to do whatever kill-trick works.

You're ordering your Cohort to do something therefore you are indirectly dealing damage to the Stuffy Doll.

Originally Posted by ryu

Same thing with the pact revival thing stacked.

Edit:
Wish, miracle, or if rule zero with pizza bribes. All within raw. Also combinations.

All of those are rule zero though except one of them involves Pizza. You'd be better off going to the Tomb of Horror to get the Sphere and Talisman

unfortunately you've trumped me playground, but the Stuffy Doll is a stubborn loser brb figured something out that can remove Pact of Return, while it making some moderate sense.

[ericgrau]

My tactic works on version 9 too because it's immune to retribution damage . EDIT: oh, unless it works on indirect damage too.

[Darth_Versity]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

brb figured something out that can remove Pact of Return, while it making some moderate sense.

Well like I said before, just alternate castings of Orb of Force with Sanctum Spell Indomitability in the infinite loop and you'll always remain on 1 HP.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by ericgrau

Slight change to my above version 9 killer. All I have to do is planeshift myself to the positive energy plane and it will follow. Once its ability goes off and I revive I can leave.

Actually it only teleports to you once. It won't follow you any further after you have physical proof that it is hunting you down. Unless you live in the Positive Energy plane then... yeah :P

I'm not exactly sure on how Positive Energy Plane interacts with Undead since it specifically states for Undead that they're immune to all Fortitude saves unless it effects objects and since the Positive Energy Plane doesn't make rocks go nuclear...

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

The only reason that still works is because I don't want to just to loldispelmagic everything... Hmm... I think I got something.

Wait... You made the main ability EX. Bwahaha. Time to destroy the very concept of this silliness.

The 9s are Psionics and Wizard.

Turn 1: Give silly Stuffy Doll the finger as a Move action. Polymorph Any Object self into Stuffy Doll. Duration is 20 minutes.
Turn 2: Activate Stuffy Doll curse targetting enemy. Quickened Time Hop, taking self out of time stream for 2 minutes.

At end of turn 4, enemy Stuffy Doll dies from your curse, because the duration is measured in the subjective time of the person who got cursed. You reappear in the same spot you left 20 minutes later, victorious.

[ryu]

Wouldn't you both die from that because the ability doesn't care if you're in timestop?

[Arcanist]

Spoiler

Purify (Su)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

UGH! I feel like using that is cheating so V.10 will definitely be the last, unless requested to continue this...

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Wait... You made the main ability EX. Bwahaha. Time to destroy the very concept of this silliness.

The 9s are Psionics and Wizard.

Turn 1: Give silly Stuffy Doll the finger as a Move action. Polymorph Any Object self into Stuffy Doll. Duration is 20 minutes.
Turn 2: Activate Stuffy Doll curse targetting enemy. Quickened Time Hop, taking self out of time stream for 2 minutes.

At end of turn 4, enemy Stuffy Doll dies from your curse, because the duration is measured in the subjective time of the person who got cursed. You reappear in the same spot you left 20 minutes later, victorious.

Archtypal Form prevents you from changing into the Stuffy Doll, and the Stuffy Doll curse doesn't care what time stream your in since it goes by 2 rounds for you.

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by ryu

Wouldn't you both die from that because the ability doesn't care if you're in timestop?

Timestop is accelerated movement, basically. Time Hop actually hurls you forwards through the time stream as a wonky forwards-only version of time travel. You simply do not exist during that time, which means the timer isn't ticking. By the time you stop time travelling the stupid doll is dead and you've won.

Edit: Purify doesn't stop any of the combos. It just dispels any lingering effects on the caster, which doesn't help with the infinite damage loop using Indomitability or with my version, since PAO cannot be dispelled. So yeah. If you want it to automatically counterspell any spell cast, that's a different story. Also probably insurmountable without epic levels of cheese.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

That has precisely nothing to do with spells. I'm pretty sure that's not what the OP wanted. Also, you seem to be overestimating your ability to deal with NI AC. You aren't touching Luck, Profane, Sacred, Insight or Deflection bonuses with that combo, and Mage Slayer only works against AC from spells or spell-like effects. A creature with an infinite innate or supernatural bonus of any of the above defeats you. That said, I'm not sure that it is killable with spells at this point. I mean, a Hulking Hurler could easily take it down in one hit, with a billion or so d6 of damage from throwing a dwarf star at it, in addition to your silly quasi-RAW d2 Crusader.

Quasi-RAW? What is "quasi-" about:

"Luck: When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible."

?

I mentioned the Mage Slayer line RE: magical concealment (see: Pierce Magical Concealment), hence why I mentioned the Mage Slayer line.

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?

Ehhh... I hate Wall type monsters... I prefer Monoliths, much cooler looking. It is immovable and can only move (via teleportation) when it places a curse on a creature. I would like to see a good healing barrage against an Undead Creature... That would most definitely be interesting...

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Edit: Purify doesn't stop any of the combos. It just dispels any lingering effects on the caster, which doesn't help with the infinite damage loop using Indomitability or with my version, since PAO cannot be dispelled. So yeah. If you want it to automatically counterspell any spell cast, that's a different story. Also probably insurmountable without epic levels of cheese.

Purify effectively removes Indomitablility. PAO can still very well be used, however you can change into the Stuffy Doll. I'd rather not just counterspell every spell, because that kills the entire point of the challenge. Stuffy Doll is supposed to be able to survive anything and everything, but possess very little ways of counterspelling your magic. I could just make it so that anything that has the Stuffy Doll curse on it constantly has an Anti-Magic field around it, but that would just be a "No".

Purify removes your buffs. Think of those boss fights where there Boss would just remove your buffs forcing you to rebuff and in some extreme cases killing you. I can't remember the name of the FF spell that does that right now but I think you get the point.

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol

Quasi-RAW? What is "quasi-" about:

"Luck: When rolling for damage, treat any die roll result of 1 as 2, unless 1 is the maximum result possible."

?

I mentioned the Mage Slayer line RE: magical concealment (see: Pierce Magical Concealment), hence why I mentioned the Mage Slayer line.

The creature's AC was undefined, and assumed to be hittable, which is explicitly mentioned in the first words of my post. Obviously if the creature has NI of every bonus then Wraithstrike on a flat-footed enemy means comparatively little, but I thought the basic premise was that we *weren't* fighting Pun-Pun, just an immovable wall?

I don't get the harsh tone at all. Do you have a thorn in your side about the lack of spells? Your own method uses Diplomacy as a skill (and is actually not a working method, because Diplomacy doesn't affect mindless creatures), and mine uses Conjuration (healing) spells to fuel Imbued Healing, so... Hooray for hostility?

Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

This thing never actually had magical concealment, but point. I assumed you meant to help bring down that AC.

I was just correcting your "always AC10" thing. You claimed that you could hit even infinite AC on a 10, I refuted that claim.

My method at least uses spells, as the OP requested. You submitted a martial build that uses a cleric level to access Cleric-specific abilities and never uses a spell whatsoever. Also, yes. Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

If my post sounded harsh, it's just because I was responding to very strong claims on your part (always successful, no chance of failure), and because you were using my least-favorite example of really bad RAW-lawyering. I don't have any issue with you at all.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

Even if the Stuffy Doll wasn't mindless it couldn't stop it's own curse from playing out even if it wanted to. I simply made it mindless so people wouldn't ask "Hey, why can't I just diplomacy it and tell it to not kill me?"

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

Even if the Stuffy Doll wasn't mindless it couldn't stop it's own curse from playing out even if it wanted to. I simply made it mindless so people wouldn't ask "Hey, why can't I just diplomacy it and tell it to not kill me?"

That didn't matter. All the Diplomacy of my method did was allow me to get Share Pain on it so I could beat myself to its death with a whacking stick. The point was never to Diplomance it into being my friend, the point was to kill it with an arbitrarily large amound of unstoppable damage in a single round. The Diplomacy was just necessary to make it Willing.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

I do believe there is a rule that states that the player does not have to roll the dice if the character would automatically succeed (in this case, killing the creature as soon as they bypass the AC).

---

Anyway, for the monster's new abilities, just use one of the one-round tricks that doesn't require a swift action and use a Quickened Anti-Magic Field first. They are Su.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

That didn't matter. All the Diplomacy of my method did was allow me to get Share Pain on it so I could beat myself to its death with a whacking stick. The point was never to Diplomance it into being my friend, the point was to kill it with an arbitrarily large amound of unstoppable damage in a single round. The Diplomacy was just necessary to make it Willing.

You must also understand that it also has Psionic Immunity (Were doing Psi-Magic transparency) so even then it couldn't take the share pain. So he'd be like "Sure, I'm willing" and then when you use it your're like "d00d wtf!?"

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Titan Gate Chain. I summon an arbitrary number of Titans in one turn and they will eventually beat you down in one round. Solar gate chain works too.

Also, Wish to Undo Misfortune. Stuffy Doll Curse averted.

[Endarire]

Spellguard of Silverymoon + transcend mortality to touch the thing. (Use surge of fortune if you so choose.) Round 2? Dismiss it.

And if you lose initiative? Celerity.

You. Win. No save. No SR. No hope. Nyah!

This trick was also used to auto-kill the Neutronium Golem.

For this, I'd go Wizard5/Incantatrix4/Master Specialist1/Spellguard of Silverymoon5/Archmage1/Wyrm Wizard4. This gets me L9s @17, transcend mortality at L18, and surge of fortune @20. I could instead just UMD something or make an item to cast these spells, but that's one way I could do it all on my own. (Archmage is for Arcane Reach, BTW.)

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

Titan Gate Chain. I summon an arbitrary number of Titans in one turn and they will eventually beat you down in one round. Solar gate chain works too.

Also, Wish to Undo Misfortune. Stuffy Doll Curse averted.

I do like the chain summoning Idea, however Karma kicks in and you take an equal amount of damage.

Originally Posted by wish

Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

No roll is made for Stuffy Doll's Curse so you can't undo it. It's like wishing that Bob the fighter never walked down the block to pick up the last carton of milk, unless Bob made a roll for standing up off his recliner then I doubt you can undo that.

Originally Posted by Endarire

Spellguard of Silverymoon + transcend mortality to touch the thing. (Use surge of fortune if you so choose.) Round 2? Dismiss it.

You. Win. No save. No SR. No hope. Nyah!

Good Job, you killed V.10 without dealing any damage. I figured it would use something like Phoenix Fire and Spellguard, however Phoenix Fire doesn't work for this. Transcend Mortality works for this

EDIT: Ah the Golem, Neutronium Lovely little critter ain't he?

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

I do like the chain summoning Idea, however Karma kicks in and you take an equal amount of damage.



No roll is made for Stuffy Doll's Curse so you can't undo it. It's like wishing that Bob the fighter never walked down the block to pick up the last carton of milk, unless Bob made a roll for standing up off his recliner then I doubt you can undo that.



Good Job, you killed V.10 without dealing any damage. I figured it would use something like Phoenix Fire and Spellguard, however Phoenix Fire doesn't work for this. Transcend Mortality works for this

EDIT: Ah the Golem, Neutronium Lovely little critter ain't he?

I think I got something...

If you can get Time Regression at-will as a Psi-like ability (or another way to avoid the XP cost), you can delay Stuffy Doll's curse taking effect indefinitely at the cost of permanently looping the universe. I call it the Groundhog Day solution. Stuffy never dies, but neither do you.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I think I got something...

If you can get Time Regression at-will as a Psi-like ability (or another way to avoid the XP cost), you can delay Stuffy Doll's curse taking effect indefinitely at the cost of permanently looping the universe. I call it the Groundhog Day solution. Stuffy never dies, but neither do you.

ooo creative my question is does time pass for you at all? Because if so then the curse kills you. For a minute I thought "Hmmm, could you time regress back to before it used it (The Curse)?"

[Raendyn]

a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

Also in case you are afraid of power points and etheralness:

Casting etherialness removes etheral problem, and starting with fission and affinity field can make sure you never run of of PP since your fission will cast bestow power in all it's standard action. with a lvl of archmage and mastery of shaping you can deal with your own AMF affecting your fission and affinity field.

Remember its many standard actions, only 1 turn, so you passed this problem too.

Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?

[Tar Palantir]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

ooo creative my question is does time pass for you at all? Because if so then the curse kills you. For a minute I thought "Hmmm, could you time regress back to before it used it (The Curse)?"

No, it rewinds everything for you as well (if you were injured and used Time Regression, the injury would vanish). The only thing you retain is memory of what happened in the alternate timeline round.

[Flickerdart]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

Also in case you are afraid of power points and etheralness:

Casting etherialness removes etheral problem, and starting with fission and affinity field can make sure you never run of of PP since your fission will cast bestow power in all it's standard action. with a lvl of archmage and mastery of shaping you can deal with your own AMF affecting your fission and affinity field.

Remember its many standard actions, only 1 turn, so you passed this problem too.

Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?

Your psicrystal has HP too, and will get blown up unless you mix Vigor in there somewhere.