[3.5] The Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground (V.1 ~ V.28)

[Chess435]

This thread reminds me of the Omnidroid from The Incredibles.

Also, since the Stuffy Doll ability is (Su), couldn't you just use a Transdimensional Antimagic Field to suppress it until the timer expired?

[Arcanist]

Wow, this is going to take a while...

Originally Posted by Raendyn

a) How can something without Con score have regeneration?

Look at the Atropal. It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.

Originally Posted by Raendyn

b)Have an antimagic field and extraordinary spell aim to exclude yourself and then all instantaneous creation effects will work. This also takes care of the globe and makes you immune to dispell and DJ. so whatever killed v9 kills v10 with AMF and ESA

This has been pointed out I am still not entirely convinced on the argument that states that an Anti-magic field allows for orbs to be casting into it, but regardless, the Stuffy Doll is an incorporeal Undead meaning that it winks away the moment you surround it with an Anti-magic field. You are now stuck with the curse with no way of saving yourself, it's the same thing as preventing the creature from popping down on you. The creature doesn't kill you, it's curse does and to respond to the inevitable argument of "I cast remove curse", the Stuffy Doll's ability Stuffy Doll isn't exactly a curse it is in essence the Stuffy Doll using Future Sight on you (in gen V).

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Now to a new trick.(too tired to put great thought effort in this but I think I'll do it.)

Be a theurge of erudite and wizard, being a changeling fills in the fluf pretty well.

STP variant opens a whole bunch of new ways to kill it, since psionics can deal sonic dmg on the fly.

You've discover a way to deal damage to the Stuffy Doll. Good job now figure out a way to negate it's Karma without causing it to wink out of existance and peeing in your soup.

Originally Posted by Raendyn

The new trick is simple. Be a shaper, give your psicrystal all feats that increase UPD and all results save nat 1 will activate dordjes. with your money you can provide enough dordjes with powers tha deal sonic dmg enough to kill 1billion hp. and STP can give you any spell ina dordje, remember a dorje has no max spell lvl.(isnt there a feat that allows you to umd even on a nat 1? or reroll it?)

You cast synchronicity with this ready action:
you: I will cast synchronicity, my ready action is: after my psicrystal takes its standard action I use synchronicity again.
But your synchronicity also affects psicrystal which can make a ready action of its own.
crystal: I phew phew the enemy
you: again I sychronicity with same ready action.
crystal: phew phew
you : same
Crystal: Phew Phew
the dmg is not from you so Karma doesnt apply, even if we count crystal as part of yourself, then as a changeling wizard you take a few lvls in recaster and get extra spell delay death.

With Karma it doesn't actually have to come from you, all you have to do is be either directly or indirectly involved. Heres the thing, the moment your delay death wears off you die. Because effectively the Stuffy Doll is using Purify to remove your Delay death and finishing you with it's Curse.

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Also, Where/What is archetypal shape?

Archetypal Shape is an Ex that the Sharn have. It makes it so that you cannot polymorph, shapechange or be polymorphied into a Sharn or in this case a Stuff Doll.

Originally Posted by Chess435

This thread reminds me of the Omnidroid from The Incredibles.

Heh... I'd like to see more threads like these... They're entertaining and force players to be a little bit more creative instead of using the standard BS that they have to

Originally Posted by standard thread start

HAI GUIZ! I NED AN UB3R L337 BILD DAT LES ME PWN AL DE NUBZORZ @ MI TABL!

Originally Posted by 1st response

AMERUGURD! U SHULD PLAY A WIZZZURD! SO OORIGINL! DA PWN ALL DE NUUB NUBBS LOLOLLOLOLOL

No offense playground, but I see the same old "Help me optimize", DWK, Wizard Vs Chuck Norris thread at least twice a week and it's... meh, whatever... I'm just one forum go'er and complaining about it won't make it any better

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV

Quasi-RAW because by RAW you never get to stop the attack. You just keep rolling damage 'till doomsday, the gamestate freezes and you break the system. There is no way to resolve your attack because you have no way of breaking the loop yourself. 1d2 Crusader does not work by RAW, and should not be by any other measure. It's one of my pet peeve tricks because it's so often misrepresented.

By definition, "infinity" is more than any defined number, even if it can never be resolved (but fitted into an algorithm, it wouldn't). Your own post involved breaking an infinite loop involving revolving hits, so you *know* that this can be circumvented.

This thing never actually had magical concealment, but point. I assumed you meant to help bring down that AC.

That was just for the inevitable "but what if it had concealment?" that I expected to follow.

I was just correcting your "always AC10" thing. You claimed that you could hit even infinite AC on a 10, I refuted that claim.

"Assumed to be hittable" precludes this. I assume from sentence 1 that this undead does not have random sacred, profane, luck bonuses, etc., because the version I fought explicitly listed none (just a DEX score of 1).

My method at least uses spells, as the OP requested. You submitted a martial build that uses a cleric level to access Cleric-specific abilities and never uses a spell whatsoever.

The first ten words of the benefit text of Imbued Healing are "Whenever you cast a lst-level or higher conjuration (healing) spell . . ." (counting "1st-level" as one word)... Which means that, by definition, I am required to cast a Conjuration (healing) spell for my combo to work.

Also, yes. Clearly my method at the time did not work because I forgot it was Mindless. Primarily because that's nonsense (Mindless creatures should not have the presence of mind to single out a target from across the multiverse), but whatever.

Mindless meat sacks should also not have arbitrarily high profane/sacred/luck/etc bonuses.

If my post sounded harsh, it's just because I was responding to very strong claims on your part (always successful, no chance of failure), and because you were using my least-favorite example of really bad RAW-lawyering. I don't have any issue with you at all.

I don't recall ever saying the former (I just checked; I didn't). As for the latter, this is clearly a TO thought experiment; what, exactly, were you expecting? Your very own example involved diplomancy to overcome SR/saves, Lightning Mace shenanigans, and infinite Share Pain loops to kill the thing. At what point did I cross the line into inexcusable?

EDIT: to Arcanist: you listed its touch AC... But what is its flat-footed?

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

Look at the Atropal. It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.

Actually, it is:

Originally Posted by SRD Regeneration

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

The Atropal breaks the rules, and arguably should be corrected.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by tuggyne

Actually, it is:

The Atropal breaks the rules, and arguably should be corrected.

I shall use the Dragonwrought Kobold argument! "Well, since X defies this rule then it doesn't apply to all of them or any of them for that matter."

but seriously, I have some egg on my face after that one On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap...

RAW vs RAW WHO WILL WIN!?

[dextercorvia]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

I shall use the Dragonwrought Kobold argument! "Well, since X defies this rule then it doesn't apply to all of them or any of them for that matter."

but seriously, I have some egg on my face after that one On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap...

RAW vs RAW WHO WILL WIN!?

Don't worry, there are a bunch of ways to break that 'rule'.

So, version 10? Is it still up?

Sorcerer//Wizard (with four levels of Dweomerkeeper)

Feats of Note: Leadership (Need a bunch of Squires of Legend(Reikhardt) -- 30 ought to do it. Arcane Thesis (Mage's Lucubration), Twin Spell, Sanctum Spell, Invisible Spell, Cooperative Spell, and Versatile Spellcaster.

Delay until after all of your followers, have gone, each bestowing another use of Supernatural Spell upon you. Yes, you can soak the Disjunction, and the GDM, since you have no active spells, and no magic items.

Use GAF loop to cast an arbitrary amount of Celerities (I think I use less than 100). Cast Twin Sanctum Invisible Cooperative Mage's Lucubration 60 times. You now have (at least 60 6th level spell slots).

Cast (using Versatile Spellcaster if you feel like it) 30 supernatural Avasculates. It auto passes the save, which means nothing. Each spell reduces its hp to half round down (this is not damage, and so is not returned). This reduces it to 0 hp, which kills it as an undead.

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

On a side note: Does a Zombie Tarrasque lose it's Regeneration? I mean the Zombie template specifically states that it keeps all of it's extraordinary abilities which Regeneration is... so... Well... crap...

In this specific case there's no problem; Regeneration does not "improve its melee or ranged attacks", so out it goes.

In general I'd say that a template indicating a large swath of abilities are retained when becoming undead/construct is more general than Regeneration saying it cannot be retained at Con -.


Edit: I thought of (and actually mentioned) avasculate, but isn't it actually a [death] effect, and therefore blocked by undead immunity?

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

Don't worry, there are a bunch of ways to break that 'rule'.

So, version 10? Is it still up?

Sorcerer//Wizard (with four levels of Dweomerkeeper)

Feats of Note: Leadership (Need a bunch of Squires of Legend(Reikhardt) -- 30 ought to do it. Arcane Thesis (Mage's Lucubration), Twin Spell, Sanctum Spell, Invisible Spell, Cooperative Spell, and Versatile Spellcaster.

Delay until after all of your followers, have gone, each bestowing another use of Supernatural Spell upon you. Yes, you can soak the Disjunction, and the GDM, since you have no active spells, and no magic items.

Use GAF loop to cast an arbitrary amount of Celerities (I think I use less than 100). Cast Twin Sanctum Invisible Cooperative Mage's Lucubration 60 times. You now have (at least 60 6th level spell slots).

Cast (using Versatile Spellcaster if you feel like it) 30 supernatural Avasculates. It auto passes the save, which means nothing. Each spell reduces its hp to half round down (this is not damage, and so is not returned). This reduces it to 0 hp, which kills it as an undead.

As an Undead it has flat out immunity to any effects of Avasculate since it doesn't effect an object. on that note, nah 10's been done for a while, I'm just suffering a little bit of a hole in this. I can't think of something to add to it that makes it harder to kill without adding a Divine Rank, thanks for adding more insight to this though... I have an idea, that I'd like to test on you though *scribble*

EDIT: and yes Avasculate is a Death effect.

EDIT v2: V.11 is up and ready. I welcome you all to try and break the endless silence.

[olentu]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

As an Undead it has flat out immunity to any effects of Avasculate since it doesn't effect an object. on that note, nah 10's been done for a while, I'm just suffering a little bit of a hole in this. I can't think of something to add to it that makes it harder to kill without adding a Divine Rank, thanks for adding more insight to this though... I have an idea, that I'd like to test on you though *scribble*

EDIT: and yes Avasculate is a Death effect.

EDIT v2: V.11 is up and ready. I welcome you all to try and break the endless silence.

So previous method with sudden silent spell.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by olentu

So previous method with sudden silent spell.

I derped~

*Scribble*

EDIT: Alright, forced teleportation is removed from Scruffy Doll. Meaning it doesn't be near you to warn you physically. Retroactively assume that you're character knows that the Scruffy Doll WILL kill you.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

I derped~

*Scribble*

EDIT: Alright, forced teleportation is removed from Scruffy Doll. Meaning it doesn't be near you to warn you physically. Retroactively assume that you're character knows that the Scruffy Doll WILL kill you.

You really don't think we can squeeze in a Sudden/Metamagic Quickened Wish (or a normal Wish) for the Transport Travelers function (you to Stuffy Doll)?

[Chess435]

Do we retroactively know it's location? If not, we still might be able to get there with a carefully worded wish.

Edit: Ninja'd by Glyphstone.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

You really don't think we can squeeze in a Sudden/Metamagic Quickened Wish (or a normal Wish) for the Transport Travelers function (you to Stuffy Doll)?

I think, I'm under-estimating the playground's power

Alright, to hell with fairness.

One minute lemme pull out that sourcebook that was written by a bunch of monkeys with calculators and just had words that made sense put in later (I'm partially joking)

[Chess435]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

I think, I'm under-estimating the playground's power

Alright, to hell with fairness.

One minute lemme pull out that sourcebook that was written by a bunch of monkeys with calculators and just had words that made sense put in later (I'm partially joking)

Immortal's handbook? Also, can we call it a win for the playground if the OP hits the character limit?

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Chess435

Immortal's handbook? Also, can we call it a win for the playground if the OP hits the character limit?

Call it a win, when I just scoop and call it a day

Originally Posted by Arcanist

V.13: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from sonic spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn). Status: Still Standing

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:

Spoiler

Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The Stuffy Doll, each round that it has it's curse on a creature immediately delivers a greater dispel magic and disjuction upon them.

Silence (Ex)
Silence surrounds the victim of the Stuffy Dolls curse to the point where it impedes the very fabric of reality. Victims of the Stuffy Doll ability are continuously surrounded by a silence effect. The silence last until the curse plays out entirely.

Try and kill this one

[Chess435]

Replace Wish with Reality Revision to get you there. Also, you forgot to change the status for v12.


Edit: Nevermind, the Spire's (Su) ability negation effect prevents the doll from killing you in the first place, so it just beats itself.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Chess435

Replace Wish with Reality Revision to get you there. Also, you forgot to change the status for v12.


Edit: Nevermind, the Spire's (Su) ability negation effect prevents the doll from killing you in the first place, so it just beats itself.

Look again. They're (Ex) now

[Chess435]

Question: Can Planar Shepherd override the Spire's magic negation thingy?

[dextercorvia]

My previous Sorcerer sling Infinite Orbs of Sound with Attune Form? I might need Druid/Planar Shepherd on the other side.

[olentu]

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

My previous Sorcerer sling Infinite Orbs of Sound with Attune Form? I might need Druid/Planar Shepherd on the other side.

You could probably just use vestments of steady spellcasting. As I recall they let one ignore the magic trait of a plane and cast normally, except for dead magic.

[tuggyne]

On another plane, round 1: shapeshift -> Chronotyryn, greater plane shift to an area 9ths work, optional move/swift actions (probably to determine location of target), teleportation circle pointing to the monster's area.
Round 2: infinite-spell abuse to summon a very great many monsters with wizard spellcasting (orb of sound, etc). Monsters move through and use standards to hit it.

Job done.

Edit: hmm... getting a good sonic spell is not quite as easy as force, but it's still not too hard.

Edit again: probably won't work at all for reasons I neglected.

[Chess435]

Originally Posted by olentu

You could probably just use vestments of steady spellcasting. As I recall they let one ignore the magic trait of a plane and cast normally, except for dead magic.

Nope, those just give +5 to concentration checks.

[Chess435]

Originally Posted by tuggyne

On another plane, round 1: shapeshift -> Chronotyryn, greater plane shift to an area 9ths work, optional move/swift actions (probably to determine location of target), teleportation circle pointing to the monster's area.
Round 2: infinite-spell abuse to summon a very great many monsters with cleric spellcasting (spiritual weapon) who move through and whack the target on natural 20s.

Job done.

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll power stone of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Chess435

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

My mistake. That's trickier then.

(I do wonder why a monster from the Immortals Handbook is hiding behind the skirts of the Lady of Pain, though....)

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Chess435

The Astral Plane is cut off there, you'll need to UPD a scroll of reality revision to get there, and that caps at 1 creature per ML.

Please note: that we're going with Psy-Magic Transparency You can reality revision or wish your way into the Temple if you really want, but... I welcome you to walk out alive

[Chess435]

We'll work that out when we get there. The doll no longer has it's Globe of Invulnerability, and we have access to up a 4th level spell via Invoke Magic. Any ideas?

[tuggyne]

Hmm, OK, plane-crossing mind bullets can go both ways. I'm thinking love's pain abuse (and ability damage mitigation or some such) should do the job here, but a) I don't remember if it bypasses regeneration; b) not quite sure whether the Spire counts as antimagic field or not.

But Arcanist, I honestly think you're getting very close to the point of pure fiat.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by tuggyne

Hmm, OK, plane-crossing mind bullets can go both ways. I'm thinking love's pain abuse (and ability damage mitigation or some such) should do the job here, but a) I don't remember if it bypasses regeneration; b) not quite sure whether the Spire counts as antimagic field or not.

If you can complete it in 2 rounds, go right ahead. The Spire counts as... well the Spire... It negates everything it describes and not just magic. Thanks to the Spire, I can more or less drop a lot of the defenses I've created.

Originally Posted by tuggyne

But Arcanist, I honestly think you're getting very close to the point of pure fiat.

I know, I know and it kills me a little If this Scruffy Doll variant is defeated I will completely surrender

[Chess435]

Limited Magic does not count as an AMF, otherwise we could just Initiate of Mystara around it.

[olentu]

Originally Posted by Chess435

Nope, those just give +5 to concentration checks.

Bah I meant vestments of steadfast spellcasting not steady spellcasting.