[3.5] The Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground (V.1 ~ V.28)

[Chess435]

Originally Posted by olentu

Bah I meant vestments of steadfast spellcasting not steady spellcasting.

Can't seem to find the source for those.

[olentu]

Originally Posted by Chess435

Can't seem to find the source for those.

Planar handbook as I recall. Maybe manual of the planes but I would go with planar handbook as more likely.

[Chess435]

Originally Posted by olentu

Planar handbook as I recall. Maybe manual of the planes but I would go with planar handbook as more likely.

Found it: Planar Handbook, Page 84. Allows wearer to ignore all Magic Traits of planes except for dead magic, so we can freely cast at the spire now. Throw in a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken and you can Wish/Reality Revision in, Quickened Veil of Undeath, Delay Death, ludicrous Silent Spell Orb of Sonic spam loop, ????????, profit.

Game, set, Match.

Edit: Made it so you don't spend the next million or so years unconscious regenerating.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Chess435

Found it: Planar Handbook, Page 84. Allows wearer to ignore all Magic Traits of planes except for dead magic, so we can freely cast at the spire now. Wish/Reality Revision in, ludicrous Silent Spell Orb of Sonic spam loop while shapechanged into something with regeneration, ????????, profit.

Game, set, Match.

That seems so ladies and gentlemen. The Scruffy Doll has been defeated, however will this be the last well be seeing of this indomitable creature? Well that is for you ladies and gentlemen to decide

With a few adjustments to the creature the challenge can indeed go on... However, I doubt you the playground is up to the task. It is late and I'm tired. If I see this thread still on the 1st page tomorrow when I get back, I'll gladly continue this challenge

[Raendyn]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

Look at the Atropal. It is an Undead creature and possess regeneration. A Constitution score is not a pre-requisite for having regeneration.

Regeneration has COM prereq. this monster is just a mistake written by someone without basic knowledge of the game.

This has been pointed out I am still not entirely convinced on the argument that states that an Anti-magic field allows for orbs to be casting into it, but regardless, the Stuffy Doll is an incorporeal Undead meaning that it winks away the moment you surround it with an Anti-magic field. You are now stuck with the curse with no way of saving yourself, it's the same thing as preventing the creature from popping down on you. The creature doesn't kill you, it's curse does and to respond to the inevitable argument of "I cast remove curse", the Stuffy Doll's ability Stuffy Doll isn't exactly a curse it is in essence the Stuffy Doll using Future Sight on you (in gen V).

Clarify pls? why it winks away while in AMF? Did I miss something?

You've discover a way to deal damage to the Stuffy Doll. Good job now figure out a way to negate it's Karma without causing it to wink out of existance and peeing in your soup.


With Karma it doesn't actually have to come from you, all you have to do is be either directly or indirectly involved. Heres the thing, the moment your delay death wears off you die. Because effectively the Stuffy Doll is using Purify to remove your Delay death and finishing you with it's Curse.

Even then, having my AMF around my while not affecting me, I just dont move close to the creature. This makes me immune to dispell and dJ, these spells cant affect anything inside AMF.
And you can cast any conjuration-Creation(or Metacreativity) effect with instantaneous duration outside an AMF and sent it inside the AMF. like orbs.

Also how would this 'regeneration" affect possitive/sacred dmg? after all its undead. ^ ^

Originally Posted by Chess435

Edit: Made it so you don't spend the next million or so years unconscious regenerating.

I was always thinking that regeneration just doubles your hitpoints.

since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I corre

[Kansaschaser]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I corre

Nope. There is no such rule in 3.5. At least, not that I've found so far. It might be a house rule that some people use. There are a lot of other systems that converts Non-lethal damage into real damage after a while, but not D&D 3.5.

Edit: I bet there are a lot of people trying to find the rule that converts Non-Lethal damage to "Real" damage. lol

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Regeneration has a CON prereq. this monster is just a mistake written by someone without basic knowledge of the game.

And you know everything about everything in D&D, because you say so? I'm going to try very hard to not insult you or offend you or attack you personally (It's this whole new thing I'm trying). Honestly, I can make the Stuffy doll anything really, because it can't possibly exist legally in a game of D&D. Essentially, it is a combination of factors that make it harder and harder to overcome. Like the Omnidroid from The Incredibles as someone in this very thread put it.

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Clarify pls? why it winks away while in AMF? Did I miss something?

Originally Posted by Anti-Magic Field

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.

Hope this clarifies

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Even then, having my AMF around my while not affecting me, I just dont move close to the creature. This makes me immune to dispell and dJ, these spells cant affect anything inside AMF.
And you can cast any conjuration-Creation(or Metacreativity) effect with instantaneous duration outside an AMF and sent it inside the AMF. like orbs.

Purify doesn't work like Anti-Magic field. Effectively it is an ability that removes your buffs and then disjoins your magical items. I could have bought that up against the Vestment of Steadfast Spellcasting, however everyone was tired so I just gave it to them

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Also how would this "regeneration" affect positive/sacred dmg? after all its undead. ^ ^

Simple. If it takes non-lethal damage from it. I could have made it like the Tarrasques regeneration where no matter what it, it took Non-lethal damage that it was immune to, however I always created a weakness in the Stuffy Doll. I could have made it to the point where the only way of killing it was to Touch it with Transcend Mortality and let it self-destruct, however that wouldn't have been fair.

Originally Posted by Raendyn

I was always thinking that regeneration just doubles your hitpoints.

It's alright to think wrong and make stuff up some times Hell, I just did it (Well, half of it)

Originally Posted by Raendyn

since everything causes non-lethal dmg to you. But, after you have non-lethal dmg equal to your hit points you start taking lethal dmg as normal. So, if you have 100 hit points, taking 210 dmg = dead. aren't I correct?

to quote Flickerdart.

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

[Citation Needed]

[Raendyn]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

lots of stuff

Well I was away from books and too tired to search online books. thats why I asked clarification here. I never implied that I need clarification because I doubt what you wrote.

No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.

The way you put the purify ability, I thought that as a free action it casts greater sidpell and DJ. both of these fail to work on my if I am in a antimagic field. Now that I got the ability as you had it in mind I get why it will hit me.

SRY about the non-lethal thing convertin gto lethal, it seems it is my dm's house rule or somethign similar, I never actually checked, cause i didn't care and it sounded reasonable. As I said I was away from books and my own pc.

Don't Worry, I can't be offended that easily, I was a master in offending others and its not that long ago that I stopped it. It just needs to imagine the best possible reason someone wrote what you read.
You can think
a)" he wrote this cause he is madafaka, noob that read 1 book only and it was done incorrectly, and at the same time he plays know-it-all'
or you can think that
b) ' someone missinformed this guy, I need to help him and convince him to kill the guys that planted all these sh1ts in his head."
or just
c) " he plays like 6-10 different RPG's and he got confused,

there's little effort needed to jump from (a), to (b), to (c). Try it if you really wanna stop the bad habbit, it helped me.

[dextercorvia]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.

Let me help you. Tuggyne quoted the general rule. That is trumped by the specific rule that Atropals have no Con score, but have regeneration anyway. It might be an artifact left over from 3.0 (ELH was 3.0, but I skipped mainly from 2e to 3.5, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on it.)

That doesn't mean that the rule is worthless. It prevents (most) PC's from benefiting from Regeneration and an immunity to non-lethal damage at the same time.

Fun Fact: I believe after reading it that a creature with Monk levels can deal lethal damage to an Atropal, as it is in fact a living weapon (possibly even sentient).

[mattie_p]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

You can think
a)" he wrote this cause he is madafaka, noob that read 1 book only and it was done incorrectly, and at the same time he plays know-it-all'
or you can think that
b) ' someone missinformed this guy, I need to help him and convince him to kill the guys that planted all these sh1ts in his head."
or just
c) " he plays like 6-10 different RPG's and he got confused,

there's little effort needed to jump from (a), to (b), to (c). Try it if you really wanna stop the bad habbit, it helped me.

Lots of other options in there, but this kinda covers the bases. Mostly we here on the Playground try for (c), sometimes we default to b or a.

Alternative for c is "guy is quoting dndwiki, which is satan incarnate, so he got confused."

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Raendyn

Well I was away from books and too tired to search online books. thats why I asked clarification here. I never implied that I need clarification because I doubt what you wrote.

... kay It's all good man

Originally Posted by Raendyn

No I am not correct because I say so, I am correct because I read it in SRD. Tuggyne provided the quote in page 6.

And here we have something that directly conflicts with the SRD while being in the SRD. The ELH even got erreta'd up to 3.5 ed and nothing was changed to the Atropal (Except for it's energy drain). It can be argued that...

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

Let me help you. Tuggyne quoted the general rule. That is trumped by the specific rule that Atropals have no Con score, but have regeneration anyway. It might be an artifact left over from 3.0 (ELH was 3.0, but I skipped mainly from 2e to 3.5, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on it.)

However any argument based on this is built on a foundation of salt and sand due the specific > general rule (or in reference, not exactly sure).

Originally Posted by Raendyn

The way you put the purify ability, I thought that as a free action it casts greater sidpell and DJ. both of these fail to work on my if I am in a antimagic field. Now that I got the ability as you had it in mind I get why it will hit me.

The first time I mentioned Anti-Magic field for the Stuffy Doll was when I stated:

Originally Posted by Arcanist

Purify effectively removes Indomitablility. PAO can still very well be used, however you can change into the Stuffy Doll. I'd rather not just counterspell every spell, because that kills the entire point of the challenge. Stuffy Doll is supposed to be able to survive anything and everything, but possess very little ways of counterspelling your magic. I could just make it so that anything that has the Stuffy Doll curse on it constantly has an Anti-Magic field around it, but that would just be a "No".

Not once did I actually apply it to the Stuffy Doll, I only mentioned it as an idea for improving it, however it was obviously rejected meaning that Purify still triggers and dispels and then dj

Originally Posted by Raendyn

SRY about the non-lethal thing convertin gto lethal, it seems it is my dm's house rule or somethign similar, I never actually checked, cause i didn't care and it sounded reasonable. As I said I was away from books and my own pc.

Don't worry about it, my first time playing D&D my DM told me to roll d20's and ignore everything under 11 for my stats

Originally Posted by Raendyn

*snip*

I generally believe that either me or the other person is misinformed regardless of the outcome someone learns something new.

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Alternative for c is "guy is quoting dndwiki, which is satan incarnate, so he got confused."

I find those threads very hilarious DnDwiki is effectively a collaboration of bad homebrew and misinformation.

[ericgrau]

Version 13:
Leadership.
Equip my army with disruption weapons. Weapon properties are not subject to spell resistance. They are subject to dispel and disjunction.
I approach the creature without my army. I die.
Then my army comes and keeps hitting it with disruption weapons until one of them rolls a 20 and the creature rolls a 1, destroying it.
Then my cohort revives me.

Oh unless it isn't subject to natural 1s on saves. Now I need a way around that. Hmm...

Version 13: (again!)
Leadership.
My army stays far away.
The creature kills me.
One of my minions brings in a mirror of opposition
The creature's double kills the creature.
My cohort revives me.

[Venger]

for 9 and 13:

scry on monster, teleportation circle in jovocs with necklaces of natural attack to make their claws +1 ghost touch, and contingency an MD on them to nerf disjunction effect. buff them with delay death (doesn't need to be persisted, but can be) attack monster.

jovocs' retributive aura makes the monster take infinite damage. it dies.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by ericgrau

Version 13:
Leadership.
Equip my army with disruption weapons. Weapon properties are not subject to spell resistance. They are subject to dispel and disjunction.
I approach the creature without my army. I die.
Then my army comes and keeps hitting it with disruption weapons until one of them rolls a 20 and the creature rolls a 1, destroying it.
Then my cohort revives me.

GJ. You found a flaw in it's design

Oh unless it isn't subject to natural 1s on saves. Now I need a way around that. Hmm...[/quote]

Originally Posted by ericgrau

Version 13: (again!)
Leadership.
My army stays far away.
The creature kills me.
One of my minions brings in a mirror of opposition
The creature's double kills the creature.
My cohort revives me.

Ooo another Flaw

Originally Posted by Venger

for 9 and 13:

scry on monster, teleportation circle in jovocs with necklaces of natural attack to make their claws +1 ghost touch, and contingency an MD on them to nerf disjunction effect. buff them with delay death (doesn't need to be persisted, but can be) attack monster.

jovocs' retributive aura makes the monster take infinite damage. it dies.

All of this is done in less then 2 rounds... wah?

Due to popular demand the Scruffy Doll has been resurrected!

[Chess435]

What do you have in mind for v14?

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Chess435

What do you have in mind for v14?

Well I don't have to play fair anymore so now I can just apply things that would be completely bizarre. I've encountered my fair share of juggernauts in my time.

You'll see

[dextercorvia]

Well, thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Arcanist]

HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE PLAYGROUND! I welcome you to enter a competition that test your Pineal Gland. You see the Stuffy Doll is a sort of experiment that I want to start running where I throw a nearly invincible creature in front of you (or on another plane or wherever really) and you try your best to kill it to the best of your abilities. The fun part is that you get

Benefits:

Spoiler

• Access to 2 spell list with 20th level casting (9th level spells)
• Unlimited WBL
• Complete and utter control over how you approach the matter
• The Stuffy Doll is 100% immobile.
• As with all Theoretical Optimization challenges DM's fiat does NOT exist.

However there have to be some challenges of course

Challenges:

Spoiler

• The Stuffy Doll has Infinite SR and can make Any Saving Throw no matter how absurdly high.
• In 2 rounds the creature will immediately kill you with no saves, no SR and without question.
• After each victory, the creature is improved in some way shape and form (The location, an additional ability, a change in Creature type, etc.)
• Diplomacy won't work against this creature.

Failed Models 1-13

I welcome you to challenge The Stuffy Doll Version 0.14-0.28

V.14: Creature has Undead (Incorporeal) creature type, 1 billion HP, 84 million HD, Touch AC 5,300, - str, 1 dex, - con, - int, 1 wis, 1 cha, DR 15/-, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid & Sonic Resistance 20, Regeneration (takes normal damage from Force spells), Immunity to Ability damage/drain, Wish, Miracle and Limited Wish in addition to previous immunities, Archetypal Shape (see Sharn), Elder Evil. Status: Still Standing

Location: In a temple about 50miles away from the Spire on the Outlands.

Additional ability:

Spoiler

Stuffy Doll (Ex)
Once per day, the Stuffy Doll can declare one target. No matter where that creature is in the Multiverse it will find the creature and kill it. If the creature manages to return to life somehow the stuffy doll will continue to kill it. Regardless of the Stuffy Dolls condition, nothing short of complete destruction will free the targeted creature from this curse. Once this curse is placed upon a creature the target has 2 rounds to response to it before it dies. The subject is automatically aware of being cursed. Creatures unfortunate to be cursed by the Stuffy Doll have there souls completely and utterly destroyed. Nothing is capable of returning them to life after this.

Karma (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll is a living punishment tool and as a result it has learned to share it's pain with a creature that it has cursed. When a Stuffy Doll uses it's Curse upon a creature a link is created between the Stuffy Doll and the target begin to share a soul. In essence, the creature takes any damage that the Stuffy Doll takes with an additional 20 points of damage. This bond only works for damage sent from the victim. For example: Milee is targeted by a Stuffy Doll, Milee attacks the Stuffy doll with a heightened Orb of Sound dealing 23 sonic damage (accounting for resistance). In response, Milee takes 43 damage due to Karma.

Purify (Ex)
The Stuffy Doll hates all life, and if given the option would willingly end all life in the Multiverse, however it also has a respect for Death and creatures it kills. Magic disrupts the balance of life and death so the Stuffy Doll respectfully cleanses his victims soul allowing them to continue the grand cycle. The victim is subject to a Disjunction Spell and then in the exact same moment is subject to a Greater Dispel Magic. This ability activates each round whenever an action is possible (on both the Stuffy Dolls and the Victims turn).

Hall of Origins (Ex)
The Temple that houses the Monolith that is known as the Stuffy Doll houses a cruel secret. The Hall and all the creatures and contents are immune to all Divinations and Clairsentience effects, spells and powers for as long as it remains in the Hall.

Anathematic Secrecy
This malefic property shrouds an elder evil from discovery by divination spells of a divine origin.Any divine spell of the divination school automatically fails when used to ascertain information about an elder evil. Divination spells that are also arcane function normally if they are cast by a nondivine spellcaster. This ability is always active.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

Well, thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Please feel free to come to Round 2 if you'd like to continue

Stuffy Doll Vs the Playground 14-28

[dextercorvia]

Can you specify what exactly being so close to the spire does for those of us without the PlH?

[Jack_Simth]

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

Can you specify what exactly being so close to the spire does for those of us without the PlH?

Suppresses everything of note. No poisons, no spells, no psionics, no supernatural abilities, and even the abilities of Greater Deities are suppressed.

[dextercorvia]

Well then, use my NI Celerity trick from your home plane. Cast Sonorous Hum, followed by Gate (Portal Version, using Sonorous Hum to concentrate), and then Sanctum GAF spam Orbs of Force through the Portal. The orbs themselves are non-magical, and shouldn't be disrupted by planar conditions.

[olentu]

Considering that one is going to be rolling in on a wish anyway, is there any reason I am not seeing to keep one from bypassing the divination protection by wording the transport wish properly. Say by wishing to be transported to the location of the creature that has cast the curse.

[dextercorvia]

Originally Posted by olentu

Considering that one is going to be rolling in on a wish anyway, is there any reason I am not seeing to keep one from bypassing the divination protection by wording the transport wish properly. Say by wishing to be transported to the location of the creature that has cast the curse.

The only reason I see, is not really wanting to be there to begin with.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: One Thread, One Topic please.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

Well then, use my NI Celerity trick from your home plane. Cast Sonorous Hum, followed by Gate (Portal Version, using Sonorous Hum to concentrate), and then Sanctum GAF spam Orbs of Force through the Portal. The orbs themselves are non-magical, and shouldn't be disrupted by planar conditions.

... I'm going to go ahead and ask the question of how that actually works? Pouring water through a Gate, I can understand, but throwing Orbs into a Gate is... debatable

[Flickerdart]

Originally Posted by Arcanist

... I'm going to go ahead and ask the question of how that actually works? Pouring water through a Gate, I can understand, but throwing Orbs into a Gate is... debatable

Why would you make the exception for Orbs? As instantaneous conjurations, their products are as mundane as the water. Only, you know, still made of force.

[dextercorvia]

Flickerdart covered it.

I forgot to add Veil of Undeath and Shapechange into a Solar (before opening the gate). That gives me Immunity to Karma.

While I'm at it, I might as well defend against Purify. 10 levels of Dweomerkeeper will let my use Gate, Sonorous Hum, Veil of Undeath, and Shapechange as Su abilities, which makes them immune to dispel and disjoining. Celerity is instantaneous, so Purify doesn't touch my pending standard actions.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Why would you make the exception for Orbs? As instantaneous conjurations, their products are as mundane as the water. Only, you know, still made of force.

Alright fair enough I can see where people would believe that and I'm not very well in the mood to question or argue it.

So answer the question of how you know where the Stuffy Doll is?

[Chess435]

I'm fairly certain my method for beating v.13 still works as long as you swap out the Orb of Sound for an Orb of Force.

Round 0: Have Vestments of Steadfast Spellcasting, Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken, and 2 Rings of Spell Battle to negate disjunction and GDM, and a Scarab of Invulnerability
Round 1:Carefully Worded Reality Revision to get you to the doll, as per the transport travelers clause, also bypassing the lack of the Astral Plane at the temple.
Round 2: Activate Scarab, Sanctum Greater Arcane Fusion+Sanctum Maximized Orb of Force Loop, do a little dance.

Edit: Missed the Hall of Origins thing on first read, give me a sec to get around that.

Edit 2: I'm gonna have to start breaking into some major cheese to pull this off.