LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

[Lea Plath]

Boo, Lixie, you are no fun :P I could have made millions offering people a place in Lixie's harem :P

Ahh well, I got something even better *hugs Arachu*

[Lix Lorn]

The places which I give out for free? xD

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Well this is certainly interesting.

[Lea Plath]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

The places which I give out for free? xD

Yes! Exactly!

[Irish Musician]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Oh my.

That is what is usually said, yes

[C'nor]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Hugs help a bit. (huggle)




I accept applications from anyone who is not a jerk.

*Huggles back*

I suppose I'll join, then, since I'm going to operate under the assumption that huggling is usually reserved for non-jerks.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost

Well this is certainly interesting.

Short: SCIENCE!


Long:

Spoiler

This is quite relevant to my interests, not the least of which because it is of immense good for everyone because it gets rid of that pesky choice between reproducing when one is about 16-20 when one's gametes and body are at their prime and when one is old and financially secure(ish) but almost guaranteed to have complications with both the health of the resulting human and the mother.

Granted, I have a momentary sobering and confusing thought at the idea of producing the ultimately inbred individual and what kind of impact that would have on society.

[KenderWizard]

O hai, thread! Didn't see you there! ... Despite having the tab still open in my browser. But I've been super-busy the last two days; I rejoined my old choir to sing with them in the Irish premier of Karl Jenkin's Peacemakers, it was awesome!

Originally Posted by noparlpf

I don't like "trans*" much myself because I expect a footnote.

*Here it is if you're looking for it like I am.

Me too! Every time! That's why I use "trans", actually, even though I know that's not exactly the same sentiment. I suppose "trans?" would be worse. What about "transx"?

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

My counsellor. She's a wonderful woman who has two cats, so she also understands everything about the comfort a warm feline can bring.

Wonderful!

Originally Posted by Mystic Muse

I don't recall why I did. It was too long ago, so my view may have changed in the meantime.

Really? It seems recent enough to me!

[bluewind95]

The thread! It came back!

I wanted to share the beautiful news of the ban on "conversion therapy" (in California) and the wishes that it spreads everywhere. But I was beaten to it.

But hi, thread!

[Absol197]

Thanks and *hugs* to all the people who offered me help. This is why I missed this place so much!

Spoiler

What happened was, on Friday morning, I sudden had an overwhelming sensation of...disgust, I guess, at the idea of transitioning. I couldn't think of myself as a girl anymore, and I was worrying that everything I had done over the past couple months had been entirely pointless, and I was worried that I was going to tell my parents, and then it turns out that I might not actually be trans at all.

However, at the same time, the real me - the one who's excited about transitioning, loves being a girl (for those brief moments I get to be) and wants to be out to, well, everybody so that I can be the person I want - she was still there at the same time; but all those negative emotions were pushing her to the side and out of the driver's seat, so to speak. It was like I was doubly trapped: trapped in a body and perceived gender I don't want, yet unable to even want to change it.

As the day went on, it got worse and worse and worse. It was one of the most horrible feelings I've ever had. And I couldn't talk to anyone about it, either! Luckily, it went away before I completely flipped out. I feel much better now!

In other news, also kinda depressing:

Spoiler

I've looked everywhere, but I can't find the kind of paper I want to use for my Coming-Out-to-my-Parents letter!

I know exactly what I want. I can even picture it in my head: a sheet (or sheets) of 8-1/2 x 11 paper, off white, maybe eggshell or creme. It's got a border around the edges, thin, sweeping, curling ribbons of dark, warm browns and deep reds; not something that's bright and fun, but something that says that this is a time for seriousness, but not sadness. It had thin, faints lines, so that I can keep my writing level scross the page.

Now, you'd think that, even if it's not that exact design with those exact colors, bordered, lined, and nice-looking letter paper (with matching envelopes!) wouldn't be that hard to find. But I've been to nearly a dozen different hobby, office supply, paper, and super stores, and I can't find anything like it at all! I finally just gave in and got something kinda close, but it doesn't have the right feel to it, which is bumming me out.

On the plus side, the nice girl at the hobby store I went to helped me find some silver sealing wax and a stamp. So that's fun! I got a stamp that has a "P" on it; I still don't feel like I deserve it, but I really do like the name Phoenix...

[Lea Plath]

For the paper, have you tried looking online? Might be able to find some. And I know the type you mean.

[Absol197]

Originally Posted by Lea Plath

For the paper, have you tried looking online? Might be able to find some. And I know the type you mean.

No I haven't, I didn't even think of that! But I need it by basically Tuesday, 'cause I need to get it and then write out my letter, and then seal it up, and I'd have less than half an hour to do that on Wednesday before the big therapist meeting. So even a one-day rush order might not get here in time.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Lea Plath

Yes! Exactly!

Mmmmno. xD

Originally Posted by Celtic_D&Der

That is what is usually said, yes

Ehehe...

Originally Posted by C'nor

*Huggles back*

I suppose I'll join, then, since I'm going to operate under the assumption that huggling is usually reserved for non-jerks.

If I thought you were a jerk, you'd know it. xD

[C'nor]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

If I thought you were a jerk, you'd know it. xD

I figured that. I was just kidding around... Sorry if that's not the impression I gave.

[Lea Plath]

We are all jerks, but only on a snoozleday.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by C'nor

I figured that. I was just kidding around... Sorry if that's not the impression I gave.

Hon, don't worry. It's pretty hard to offend me unless you're trying to, and/or are a jerk, and that part has been established. :33

[C'nor]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Hon, don't worry. It's pretty hard to offend me unless you're trying to, and/or are a jerk, and that part has been established. :33

And I seriously doubt I'll be trying to, so... *Removes eggshells from shoes*

[Selpharia]

Originally Posted by Absol197

Thanks and *hugs* to all the people who offered me help. This is why I missed this place so much!

Spoiler

What happened was, on Friday morning, I sudden had an overwhelming sensation of...disgust, I guess, at the idea of transitioning. I couldn't think of myself as a girl anymore, and I was worrying that everything I had done over the past couple months had been entirely pointless, and I was worried that I was going to tell my parents, and then it turns out that I might not actually be trans at all.

However, at the same time, the real me - the one who's excited about transitioning, loves being a girl (for those brief moments I get to be) and wants to be out to, well, everybody so that I can be the person I want - she was still there at the same time; but all those negative emotions were pushing her to the side and out of the driver's seat, so to speak. It was like I was doubly trapped: trapped in a body and perceived gender I don't want, yet unable to even want to change it.

As the day went on, it got worse and worse and worse. It was one of the most horrible feelings I've ever had. And I couldn't talk to anyone about it, either! Luckily, it went away before I completely flipped out. I feel much better now!

In other news, also kinda depressing:

Spoiler

I've looked everywhere, but I can't find the kind of paper I want to use for my Coming-Out-to-my-Parents letter!

I know exactly what I want. I can even picture it in my head: a sheet (or sheets) of 8-1/2 x 11 paper, off white, maybe eggshell or creme. It's got a border around the edges, thin, sweeping, curling ribbons of dark, warm browns and deep reds; not something that's bright and fun, but something that says that this is a time for seriousness, but not sadness. It had thin, faints lines, so that I can keep my writing level scross the page.

Now, you'd think that, even if it's not that exact design with those exact colors, bordered, lined, and nice-looking letter paper (with matching envelopes!) wouldn't be that hard to find. But I've been to nearly a dozen different hobby, office supply, paper, and super stores, and I can't find anything like it at all! I finally just gave in and got something kinda close, but it doesn't have the right feel to it, which is bumming me out.

On the plus side, the nice girl at the hobby store I went to helped me find some silver sealing wax and a stamp. So that's fun! I got a stamp that has a "P" on it; I still don't feel like I deserve it, but I really do like the name Phoenix...

@Absol

Spoiler

Here are my hugs, take them all.

I'm glad the feeling has passed for now. I've had that heppen to me recently too, and I noticed, at least for me, that it happens when I've spent a while doing something that I get totally engaged in doing, but without thinking about the girl I want to be, and just being. Then I realize that I spent all that time "as a boy" and didn't feel anything, and wonder what I'm doing rolling the stone of my self up this endless hill of doubts and regrets if I can enjoy myself as I am.

I think it comes from spending so much time hiding our girl selves, and the simple fact that without being raised as girls, it's almost impossible to have nothing boyish about ourselves. (I write like a boy, for example) There's discomfort and dysphoria a good part of the time, but in some way, we know how to live like that; for all that it's miserable, it's familiar, and to transition is to embrace the alien and the terrifying.

On top of that, most humans can't think of the same thing all the time (Buddhas and other like sueper-beings excepted; if you're one of these, I can't help) So naturally, there will be times when the dysphoria fades into the background, and then we wonder why we bother.

I think it's good to remember something that was in the explanation of hormone effects on that site Helio linked earlier. Hormones and transition change your body, and let you express more of yourself, they don't change the personality that's there. You may change as a result of them, sure, but that's what you take from the experience of transitioning, not something it just gives you.

When I felt similarly, and that same doubt and terror crept up on me, there were two things that really helped. I did my best to remember how I felt at a time when the only thing I could imagine that would help was transition. Then, I went and did something really feminine, that I couldn't openly do now. In my case I have two adorable little plush dolls on whom I vent my maternal instincts, and a plush pony whose mane I like to style. Doing these things reminds the fake you why it's inadequate, and the real you remember that she's real because she's the one who has those feelings, and that the fake you is just a tool to hide them from everyone, even yourself sometimes.

I hope this helps a bit with any lingering doubts and that coming out to your parents goes well. You're a sweetheart, and I hope that even if things are tough now, you'll make it through, and be all the happier for it.

Sorry if that's too long, your story led me on a long romp through the untamed jungles of my own thought, which is always dangerous I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sometimes feels this way though.

So I went through the university therapist's evaluation period, and she gave me a referral to see a specialist counselor in the area. But this new counselor is a fully transitioned FtM, and I'm terrified that I'll tell him my story and everything, and he'll just say: "That's not really dysphoria, you're just a complete lunatic who's such a failure as a male that you're trying to pretend to need to be female." I know it's irrational, but I just keep turning the thought over in my mind along with every little way in which my story is different than the "standard model" I'm sure it won't really be like that, but I'm still so nervous, especially since he'll be the first transitioned person I have ever met in real life.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by C'nor

And I seriously doubt I'll be trying to, so... *Removes eggshells from shoes*

Silly. (huggle)

Originally Posted by Selpharia

So I went through the university therapist's evaluation period, and she gave me a referral to see a specialist counselor in the area. But this new counselor is a fully transitioned FtM, and I'm terrified that I'll tell him my story and everything, and he'll just say: "That's not really dysphoria, you're just a complete lunatic who's such a failure as a male that you're trying to pretend to need to be female." I know it's irrational, but I just keep turning the thought over in my mind along with every little way in which my story is different than the "standard model" I'm sure it won't really be like that, but I'm still so nervous, especially since he'll be the first transitioned person I have ever met in real life.

They won't say that, I promise. (hug)

[C'nor]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Silly. (huggle)

Always. *More huggling*

Selpharia:

I can't really help, but you have my sympathies. *hugs you too*

(...Why does it feel like I've been saying that far too much lately?)

[Lilac_Shade]

It seems like every time I post here it's 'cos I have something sad to say, and unfortunately I need to do that one more time.

Spoiler

I have this really close best friend. She's cis, but bi and she's been relatively active in our local queer community. Recently, she's been saying some cissexist stuff, which I called her out on and she apologized for. But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically. I explained that as an ally, it's her job to help English evolve into a more gender-inclusive language. She got really passive aggressive and said she'll just stop talking since everyone takes these things so personally. I'm used to getting this kind of stuff from my family and strangers, but I've long considered her a friend and an ally, and recent weeks as well as this incident have culminated to kind of shatter that image. I really have no idea how to respond to this situation. Help?

[Eurus]

Originally Posted by Lilac_Shade

Spoiler

I have this really close best friend. She's cis, but bi and she's been relatively active in our local queer community. Recently, she's been saying some cissexist stuff, which I called her out on and she apologized for. But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically. I explained that as an ally, it's her job to help English evolve into a more gender-inclusive language. She got really passive aggressive and said she'll just stop talking since everyone takes these things so personally. I'm used to getting this kind of stuff from my family and strangers, but I've long considered her a friend and an ally, and recent weeks as well as this incident have culminated to kind of shatter that image. I really have no idea how to respond to this situation. Help?

Unfortunately, people are naturally predisposed to get defensive about things. My advice would be to give it a little while, and see if she softens up about it. Hopefully things get a little better -- or she at the very least decides to be less confrontational because she values your friendship.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by Lilac_Shade

But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically.

Speaking as someone who's enough of a grammar Nazi to qualify for membership in the grammar SS, the singular they isn't something that should piss her off grammatically whether or not it's used in relation to trans* issues/people. It has a long and distinguished history in English, and is even considered to be correct by the Oxford English Dictionary, and you can't really disagree with the OED and call yourself a proper grammarian.

[Arachu]

Originally Posted by Lentrax

*Closes arms*

Yay! A hug of my very own!



Yay! So happy for you and your sleeping! *Glomps again*

^_^

Originally Posted by Lea Plath

*hugs the glomping Arachu and chews* Moine :3

X3

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

(blink blink)
The end is that I feel lonelier than before, can't concentrate on anything, and am having an interesting cycle of mad at the world > Mad at myself > dysphoria.

*So many hugs* My PM box is pretty full, but we can talk on Skype if you want~ :<

Originally Posted by Astrella

Yeah... I just wish that not practically every story involving a trans woman had to end badly. ._.

I'm glad Tab clarified and apologized though. (Also I'm not saying that trans women don't do bad stuff or are always good people, I'm just sad that the other three stories had decent endings and I'm really not seeing how this will end well right now. :/ )

*Hugs* Same here. :c

Originally Posted by supernerd

just that I'd like to procreate with the one I fall in love with, which I theoretically can't aside from the "right person clause." I'll be fine for three months and then something happens and I get this feeling like I'm not worth anything. Like I have no legitimate existence. And it shows in my writing. I'm hating this one chapter, and it needs to be re written once I finish it.

*More hugs* I can sympathize, sort of. >.>

Originally Posted by Lea Plath

Ahh well, I got something even better *hugs Arachu*

*Hugs~*

Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost

Well this is certainly interesting.

:O

Originally Posted by Absol197

Thanks and *hugs* to all the people who offered me help. This is why I missed this place so much!

Spoiler

What happened was, on Friday morning, I sudden had an overwhelming sensation of...disgust, I guess, at the idea of transitioning. I couldn't think of myself as a girl anymore, and I was worrying that everything I had done over the past couple months had been entirely pointless, and I was worried that I was going to tell my parents, and then it turns out that I might not actually be trans at all.

However, at the same time, the real me - the one who's excited about transitioning, loves being a girl (for those brief moments I get to be) and wants to be out to, well, everybody so that I can be the person I want - she was still there at the same time; but all those negative emotions were pushing her to the side and out of the driver's seat, so to speak. It was like I was doubly trapped: trapped in a body and perceived gender I don't want, yet unable to even want to change it.

As the day went on, it got worse and worse and worse. It was one of the most horrible feelings I've ever had. And I couldn't talk to anyone about it, either! Luckily, it went away before I completely flipped out. I feel much better now!

*Hugs!* At least you feel better... I hope that doesn't happen again. :)

In other news, also kinda depressing:

Spoiler

I've looked everywhere, but I can't find the kind of paper I want to use for my Coming-Out-to-my-Parents letter!

I know exactly what I want. I can even picture it in my head: a sheet (or sheets) of 8-1/2 x 11 paper, off white, maybe eggshell or creme. It's got a border around the edges, thin, sweeping, curling ribbons of dark, warm browns and deep reds; not something that's bright and fun, but something that says that this is a time for seriousness, but not sadness. It had thin, faints lines, so that I can keep my writing level scross the page.

Now, you'd think that, even if it's not that exact design with those exact colors, bordered, lined, and nice-looking letter paper (with matching envelopes!) wouldn't be that hard to find. But I've been to nearly a dozen different hobby, office supply, paper, and super stores, and I can't find anything like it at all! I finally just gave in and got something kinda close, but it doesn't have the right feel to it, which is bumming me out.

On the plus side, the nice girl at the hobby store I went to helped me find some silver sealing wax and a stamp. So that's fun! I got a stamp that has a "P" on it; I still don't feel like I deserve it, but I really do like the name Phoenix...

I wish I could help! *More hugs*

But you know... By the sound of things I'd say you've earned a name. And that one's really pretty~

Originally Posted by Selpharia

So I went through the university therapist's evaluation period, and she gave me a referral to see a specialist counselor in the area. But this new counselor is a fully transitioned FtM, and I'm terrified that I'll tell him my story and everything, and he'll just say: "That's not really dysphoria, you're just a complete lunatic who's such a failure as a male that you're trying to pretend to need to be female." I know it's irrational, but I just keep turning the thought over in my mind along with every little way in which my story is different than the "standard model" I'm sure it won't really be like that, but I'm still so nervous, especially since he'll be the first transitioned person I have ever met in real life.

What Lixie said~ *Hugs*

Originally Posted by C'nor

(...Why does it feel like I've been saying that far too much lately?)

*Hugs*

Originally Posted by Lilac_Shade

It seems like every time I post here it's 'cos I have something sad to say, and unfortunately I need to do that one more time.

Spoiler

I have this really close best friend. She's cis, but bi and she's been relatively active in our local queer community. Recently, she's been saying some cissexist stuff, which I called her out on and she apologized for. But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically. I explained that as an ally, it's her job to help English evolve into a more gender-inclusive language. She got really passive aggressive and said she'll just stop talking since everyone takes these things so personally. I'm used to getting this kind of stuff from my family and strangers, but I've long considered her a friend and an ally, and recent weeks as well as this incident have culminated to kind of shatter that image. I really have no idea how to respond to this situation. Help?

*Hugs!*


~Bianca

[C'nor]

PairO'Dice Lost:

I think this might be relevant...

Bianca:

*Hugs back*

Thanks. I'm feeling slightly less bad about that now anyway, for reasons I can't really go into, but that certainly helps too, and I appreciate it.

[Astrella]

Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost

Well this is certainly interesting.

That is interesting. Would also be really neat for people wanting SRS.

Originally Posted by bluewind95

The thread! It came back!

I wanted to share the beautiful news of the ban on "conversion therapy" (in California) and the wishes that it spreads everywhere. But I was beaten to it.

But hi, thread!

Hi bluewind!

Originally Posted by Absol197

Thanks and *hugs* to all the people who offered me help. This is why I missed this place so much!

Spoiler

What happened was, on Friday morning, I sudden had an overwhelming sensation of...disgust, I guess, at the idea of transitioning. I couldn't think of myself as a girl anymore, and I was worrying that everything I had done over the past couple months had been entirely pointless, and I was worried that I was going to tell my parents, and then it turns out that I might not actually be trans at all.

However, at the same time, the real me - the one who's excited about transitioning, loves being a girl (for those brief moments I get to be) and wants to be out to, well, everybody so that I can be the person I want - she was still there at the same time; but all those negative emotions were pushing her to the side and out of the driver's seat, so to speak. It was like I was doubly trapped: trapped in a body and perceived gender I don't want, yet unable to even want to change it.

As the day went on, it got worse and worse and worse. It was one of the most horrible feelings I've ever had. And I couldn't talk to anyone about it, either! Luckily, it went away before I completely flipped out. I feel much better now!

In other news, also kinda depressing:

Spoiler

I've looked everywhere, but I can't find the kind of paper I want to use for my Coming-Out-to-my-Parents letter!

I know exactly what I want. I can even picture it in my head: a sheet (or sheets) of 8-1/2 x 11 paper, off white, maybe eggshell or creme. It's got a border around the edges, thin, sweeping, curling ribbons of dark, warm browns and deep reds; not something that's bright and fun, but something that says that this is a time for seriousness, but not sadness. It had thin, faints lines, so that I can keep my writing level scross the page.

Now, you'd think that, even if it's not that exact design with those exact colors, bordered, lined, and nice-looking letter paper (with matching envelopes!) wouldn't be that hard to find. But I've been to nearly a dozen different hobby, office supply, paper, and super stores, and I can't find anything like it at all! I finally just gave in and got something kinda close, but it doesn't have the right feel to it, which is bumming me out.

On the plus side, the nice girl at the hobby store I went to helped me find some silver sealing wax and a stamp. So that's fun! I got a stamp that has a "P" on it; I still don't feel like I deserve it, but I really do like the name Phoenix...

*hugs*
Those feelings sound really familiar. :(
I'm glad you're feeling better though!

It's like, I sometime feel guilty when I'm not feeling sucky and dysphoric cause it makes me afraid that I'm just imagining stuff and being silly...

I wonder how much it has to deal with just how often we are told that our feeling are wrong. :/

I hope you still find the paper or something you like. And yay on the stamp! :D

Originally Posted by Selpharia

@Absol

Spoiler

Here are my hugs, take them all.

I'm glad the feeling has passed for now. I've had that heppen to me recently too, and I noticed, at least for me, that it happens when I've spent a while doing something that I get totally engaged in doing, but without thinking about the girl I want to be, and just being. Then I realize that I spent all that time "as a boy" and didn't feel anything, and wonder what I'm doing rolling the stone of my self up this endless hill of doubts and regrets if I can enjoy myself as I am.

I think it comes from spending so much time hiding our girl selves, and the simple fact that without being raised as girls, it's almost impossible to have nothing boyish about ourselves. (I write like a boy, for example) There's discomfort and dysphoria a good part of the time, but in some way, we know how to live like that; for all that it's miserable, it's familiar, and to transition is to embrace the alien and the terrifying.

On top of that, most humans can't think of the same thing all the time (Buddhas and other like sueper-beings excepted; if you're one of these, I can't help) So naturally, there will be times when the dysphoria fades into the background, and then we wonder why we bother.

I think it's good to remember something that was in the explanation of hormone effects on that site Helio linked earlier. Hormones and transition change your body, and let you express more of yourself, they don't change the personality that's there. You may change as a result of them, sure, but that's what you take from the experience of transitioning, not something it just gives you.

When I felt similarly, and that same doubt and terror crept up on me, there were two things that really helped. I did my best to remember how I felt at a time when the only thing I could imagine that would help was transition. Then, I went and did something really feminine, that I couldn't openly do now. In my case I have two adorable little plush dolls on whom I vent my maternal instincts, and a plush pony whose mane I like to style. Doing these things reminds the fake you why it's inadequate, and the real you remember that she's real because she's the one who has those feelings, and that the fake you is just a tool to hide them from everyone, even yourself sometimes.

I hope this helps a bit with any lingering doubts and that coming out to your parents goes well. You're a sweetheart, and I hope that even if things are tough now, you'll make it through, and be all the happier for it.

Sorry if that's too long, your story led me on a long romp through the untamed jungles of my own thought, which is always dangerous I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sometimes feels this way though.

So I went through the university therapist's evaluation period, and she gave me a referral to see a specialist counselor in the area. But this new counselor is a fully transitioned FtM, and I'm terrified that I'll tell him my story and everything, and he'll just say: "That's not really dysphoria, you're just a complete lunatic who's such a failure as a male that you're trying to pretend to need to be female." I know it's irrational, but I just keep turning the thought over in my mind along with every little way in which my story is different than the "standard model" I'm sure it won't really be like that, but I'm still so nervous, especially since he'll be the first transitioned person I have ever met in real life.

I know it wasn't intended for me; but reading that made me feel happy.

Mrr, that's also why I'm a bit annoyed at how certain narratives are pushed over others. Though with gatekeeping it's understandable I guess. But everyone's story is different! And so is everyone's dysphoria, and this guy knows that. I'm sure everything will go well. I'll be crossing my fingers for you.

Originally Posted by Lilac_Shade

It seems like every time I post here it's 'cos I have something sad to say, and unfortunately I need to do that one more time.

Spoiler

I have this really close best friend. She's cis, but bi and she's been relatively active in our local queer community. Recently, she's been saying some cissexist stuff, which I called her out on and she apologized for. But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically. I explained that as an ally, it's her job to help English evolve into a more gender-inclusive language. She got really passive aggressive and said she'll just stop talking since everyone takes these things so personally. I'm used to getting this kind of stuff from my family and strangers, but I've long considered her a friend and an ally, and recent weeks as well as this incident have culminated to kind of shatter that image. I really have no idea how to respond to this situation. Help?

Hmmm. Getting called out on something is hard to take. So, Iunno, it might be best to just let her process it on her own for a while and hope she'll realize stuff on herself? Otherwise maybe write her an email about it and how you've been feeling dismissed by her? An email gives her time to process it herself and might be less confronting? (You could also point out if you haven't yet that they actually has a long standing history of being used as singular third person as well.)

Anyways, *hugs*

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by C'nor

PairO'Dice Lost:

I think this might be relevant...

*saved to bookmarks*

Thank'ee kindly.

[Lentrax]

Oh my. So many people, so much sadness.
*hugs for everyone*

I have an open pm box for anyone who wants to talk.

*whispers in Lixies ear*
Thanks.

[Triscuitable]

Originally Posted by C'nor

I think this might be relevant...

This is Gramerica, dammit! In Gramerica we speak with dignity and proper punctuation, with no lazy "like"s or "you know"s strewn about!

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost

Well this is certainly interesting.

Neat. Too tired to think further.

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

Me too! Every time! That's why I use "trans", actually, even though I know that's not exactly the same sentiment. I suppose "trans?" would be worse. What about "transx"?

Hmm. Too tired to consider at present. Just barely managed to skim sudden two pages from today. Will think when conscious.

Originally Posted by Lilac_Shade

It seems like every time I post here it's 'cos I have something sad to say, and unfortunately I need to do that one more time.

Spoiler

I have this really close best friend. She's cis, but bi and she's been relatively active in our local queer community. Recently, she's been saying some cissexist stuff, which I called her out on and she apologized for. But, just now, we were talking about pronouns, and she was going on about how annoying "they, them, their" pronouns are because they piss her off grammatically. I explained that as an ally, it's her job to help English evolve into a more gender-inclusive language. She got really passive aggressive and said she'll just stop talking since everyone takes these things so personally. I'm used to getting this kind of stuff from my family and strangers, but I've long considered her a friend and an ally, and recent weeks as well as this incident have culminated to kind of shatter that image. I really have no idea how to respond to this situation. Help?

I can totally sympathise with your friend there, but I've lately been working on being less of a prude, and besides the singular they has been a thing basically forever, and also it's better as a gender-neutral pronoun than any of the contrived ones because it has history and it's easier to use in speech.