Soragakure OOC III - Why Do We Have 3 Of These? - Page 7

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

Bad, I think I'm going to do what Yousuke's been doing and only tell them convenient half-truths in place of lies. For instance "Kaede Uchiha is not our team mate," would be one

That's a full on lie, actually. He is team-leader until Cybele returns.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 02:25 AM

Kaede's officially been discharged from his own team, why would he really be in charge of us? In Amon's view of things, she's a member of team Cybele, not 'team Kaede'. Plus she's bloody pissed at Kaede for using genjutsu on her

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaede

"I hope your break went well, because today's mission is a doozy. Cybele's training the little girl she found. Who knew a member of her clan was out here all alone, huh?"

"So I'm taking over for her this time."

He's really in charge, so it'd be a lie to say he's not part of the team.

Bad Situation · 10-02-2012, 02:36 AM

I really wish I hadn't named Kaede to Sanagi...

Jacior · 10-02-2012, 02:36 AM

Well, about the time the talk of other Families came up, I realized that killing Gonzou would create a power vacumn that would result in life in the already crappy Sunomo to get much, much worse.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 02:40 AM

Well, of course Kaede is Cybele's puppet master, we all know this - I think Amon said it herself at some point that he's the real brains of this operation. But then, the President of the USA could be said to be 'really in charge' of, say, Congress (I was never clear on what congress is, so just assume my example makes sense) but you wouldn't describe him as a member of team Congress. Or, perhaps more relevantly, if your boss is going to therapy and his therapist is suggesting taking therapeutic couyrses of action that affect the workplace, you still wouldn't say his therapist was your boss simply because they have sway over him. Cybele is creepily dependant on his attention (forget the underage seduction and her generally being exclusionary, her devotion is actually what creeps me out since it consumes so much of her soul) so looks to Kaede for advise and signs up to take on a team, but just because Kaede likely made that decision for her doesn't mean he's our leader or a member of the team. He's more like our supervisor.

Cespenar · 10-02-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacior

Well, about the time the talk of other Families came up, I realized that killing Gonzou would create a power vacumn that would result in life in the already crappy Sunomo to get much, much worse.

If we don't kill Gonzou, you might as well have a plan to move the Queens to safety for a good length of time. Otherwise you're just killing them instead. And regardless of which, you'll have ended their career, the one thing they both enjoy and are successful at. Yeah.

And seriously, what power vacuum? This isn't World War II. If we're that worried about remote possibilities, we wouldn't be able to do any mission at all, let alone take down a pretty established bad guy.

"Oh, good work Naruto, your mission were successful and you made that bridge possible, but now thanks to you, if a war erupts, an enemy army would be able to capture it and pass unhindered into our lands. You have effectively cost us the next war, not to mention the lives of thousands of people. Thanks, Naruto!"

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Situation

I really wish I hadn't named Kaede to Sanagi...

Ya think? At least Yousuke can read a situation a little better than Houshi can.

How come they get a surprise round? We were aware of them and the openly declared their gripe with us before initiating. This is bull. Amon will take no aggressive stance since they SOMEHOW got te drop on US. Instead let us use the Luffy method of nonaggression. Remember the time they were assaulted by pirates so distasteful Luffy didn't even think they were worth fighting so let them beat the **** out of him? Let's do that, make them seem totally unreasonable

Initiative (1d20+6)[20]

Once again, Amon wins initiative but can't really go anywhere from here.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 04:44 AM

I would like a guide to our relative positions, though if all goes well you will get little use of a full blown battle map. Amon intends to talk her way out of this, one way or the other. Let's go with the excuse Houshi is under some screwy genjutsu.

Also, hate to be a rules lawyer or anything but I still insist none of us are surprised. Even if one doesn't know of their opponent's intent, as long as they are aware of the opponents and the battle begins by a clearly defined point (Houshi opening his god damn mouth, and her declaring her intent and whistling for attention certainly qualify), we are aware they are potential opponents, so no surprise. So, no bloodlines, they're flat footed and Amon acts first.

here, while I'm being a douche, have a link
http://dmreference.com/MRD/Combat/Co...s/Surprise.htm

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

Cybele is creepily dependant on his attention ...

There's a reason for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

... so looks to Kaede for advise and signs up to take on a team, but just because Kaede likely made that decision for her doesn't mean he's our leader or a member of the team. He's more like our supervisor.

Regardless of the history of the team, the issue is that he's a team member right now. And yes, I would say he's a team member. It's not any different than when Yamato took over for Kakashi in Naruto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

Also, hate to be a rules lawyer or anything but I still insist none of us are surprised.

You're unaware battle started until she declared her intention to fight you. You can be aware of a person, but be unaware that the person is a threat until they do something clearly threatening. This is one such case.

Bad Situation · 10-02-2012, 04:59 AM

I'm not flat footed though a lucky hit will probably send me into the negatives or close.

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 07:09 AM

Here's that map, Trace.

Spoiler

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 09:12 AM

Maybe I'll tell the truth for once. They seem to think we're his accomplices, but we've only known him for a week and been on the road with him for 5 hours; in that time we've never seen him do anything of being an international criminal we could be accessory to and that, as a jounin of Soragakure, he had a lot more control than we did over who was in charge of the team today.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 09:20 AM

I have an idea to clear up our disagreement of what constitutes surprise. Let us roll Sense Motive checks - a normal, physical surprise allows spot and listen checks, so I think this sort of surprise round should allow a similar check to detect the aggressiveness of someone before they take actions. She's not really hiding her disdain for us by the time the 'surprise round' starts so the DC might actually be low enough for some of us to make

Thinking about it, I'm quite surprised such a mechanic doesn't exist yet - it seems like something that would be contested more than once. After all, the whole reason the d20 system was ever made was to resolve disputes like this, you know? Pointing a finger at someone and saying you shot them dead will give rise to stupid arguments like "I was wearing my finger bullet proof vest* even when just playing an already stupid game. This system gives us dimensions, judgement, closure to such disputes, so i say we make use of the concept of opposed rolls. The alternative is that, when gaining surprise, coming out in the open and saying 'hi' would be better for earning surprise than hiding and popping out.

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

I have an idea to clear up our disagreement of what constitutes surprise.

I have a better idea. You're surprised. Move on and stop looking for water in the desert.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 04:09 PM

Fine. I guess I'm just bitter that as i get my sleeping schedule into something more regular, i go to bed and wake up 8 hours later to find teh game has been flipped on its head with surprising frequency. If I had been awake at 4 o'clock I could have talked our way out of things before Houshi went and added fuel to the fire, but I wasn't. That isn't anyone's fault, I know - not even my own. It's just one of those curel little tidbits of life that drive me up the wall. Now I know how everyone else feels about Amon's doings. I really should keep myself on a tighter leesh...

Big talky IC post to come. by the way, shouldn't there be a dog in that map?

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraceHyde

Big talky IC post to come. by the way, shouldn't there be a dog in that map?

There should. My bad. He's beside Jun, directly south of her.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 04:49 PM

There, telling the truth and letting them make of it what they will. Only problem is, if they're power gamers, they might get pissed at going to all the trouble of activating their bloodline bull**** and not get to use any of the chakra they expended to fight us - "well, we have 3 rounds of bloodline for free anyway - what we gonna do EXCEPT beat you down and restrain you?"

Overlord Rion · 10-02-2012, 05:25 PM

If Takuya weren't so...well, young, yeah let's go with that, he'd go rogue over this.

Overreacting? Aw yeah.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 05:37 PM

Should I roll diplomacy? I'd appreciate it if Houshi and Yousuke didn't do anything to jeopardise this if it looks like they're listening to Amon, or even if they're not. a total defence action or similar would be acceptable, as would trying to walk away slowly, make them feel like delusionary *******s for attacking us. We need these guys and since Houshi drove them to combat, we'll have to use the trith and our actions as a wedge to break that will to fight. If nothing else we should argue them down to merely capturing us - Amon can form a chakra scalpel and cut through her bonds if need be (or, if she's really determined, whatever body part is ensnared) to help us break out.

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 05:52 PM

Wait, did I hear genjutsu master when describing the group's Uchiha? ... ready an action to disrupt? Damn, i should have had Amon do that - a basic 5th level genjutsu or two could screw us up pretty much instantly

TraceHyde · 10-02-2012, 06:55 PM

Right, bed now - I'm pretty sick, so staying up any longer would only worsen my health. If I need to roll diplomacy or something, just roll for me, I have a +5 modifier. I'd take 10 but I'm almost certain i'm not allowed and it wouldn't be enough. I give permission to Bad to decide whether or not I should use an action point to improve the result of the roll. Think you can handle the responsibility?

At least since Amon won initiative she might be able to talk them down before they do anything stupid. And by 'they' I mean 'literally every other combatant'.

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 09:55 PM

I should really count that giant info dump as Amon's round, since it's impossible to say that entire thing in 6 seconds. But I won't.

That said: There's simply no way you're going to talk them down. Why? Because of how much you've lied to them. If Amon hadn't continued the whole "Kaede was our prisoner" bit before she started explaining, then things would have went much differently. You've shown yourselves to be completely untrustworthy, and the risk your group presents is too great to be allowed to roam freely. After all, you might be working with an S-class criminal who assaulted his family and kidnapped his younger sister. Or you might be working with the B-class criminal they're hunting down. Or you might be working for the Garou clan.

Point is: You've lied so much that they cannot trust you, even when you're telling the truth. And since they can't trust you to not interfere, then they're just going to tie you up to prevent you from following them.

I'm honestly surprised, more like amazed really, that you've somehow alienated a group intended to be allies. You guys get 125 XP for really surprising me.

Bad Situation · 10-02-2012, 10:02 PM

We're all over the spectrum here. Yousuke told half truths and obscured the more delicate information on account of the Uchiha's presence. Houshi flat out told them everything and then some. Amon was the only full blown liar though. And I was trying to befriend them but I didn't think it was right to just tell them everything regarding our mission/village information. Isn't that like, against regulation?

Ugh, so no salvaging this situation?

ZeroNumerous · 10-02-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Situation

Houshi flat out told them everything and then some.

To be fair, Houshi didn't mention Kaede in the beginning. He just said "a team member". Everything after that screwed over his initial statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Situation

Isn't that like, against regulation?

Sort of. You should avoid it, but if it's necessary in order to complete your mission then explaining things is acceptable. Ninja are allowed to use their judgment, but it's frowned upon greatly to rely on other ninja to do your job for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Situation

Ugh, so no salvaging this situation?

Not anymore. Amon's attempt to maintain her lie really screwed the pooch.

Bad Situation · 10-02-2012, 10:21 PM

Aww, I feel really ****ty then. The whole thing is my fault for bringing up Kaede in the first place. I just wanted them to trust me since I didn't feel comfortable lying to them about not knowing any Uchiha.

Bad Situation · 10-02-2012, 11:06 PM

Welp, I didn't want to fight them in the first place so Yousuke is giving up to them. Honor to the end I suppose. I really don't see a fight with them ending well and I still want to leave them with a good impression if possible.

zeone3000 · 10-02-2012, 11:53 PM

Honesty is the best possibly. Admittedly, Houshi left some things out but they never ask though.. You two are the liars.

ZeroNumerous · 10-03-2012, 12:29 AM

It can be argued that Houshi screwed everyone over by being honest.

Bad Situation · 10-03-2012, 01:36 AM

I'm pretty sure all blame ultimately lies with me though. Sorry for getting us into this mess guys, I feel really bad about it.