[PF] Oradin Mini-Guide. Or, How to be a Healbot, minus the 'bot'

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 12:02 PM

Oradin

Contents:
Post 1

Summary/Overview
Life Link and Shield Other
Stat Arrangement
The Paladin
The Oracle

Post 2

Race Options
Alternate Base Classes
Prestige Options

Post 3

Feats
Equipment

Summary:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgrau

I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that....It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive, any paladin can dip on the side.
...
So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.

The Oradin has become quite popular since it's origination 5 months ago.
This is a Mini-Guide that will explore various options for optimizing your Oradin.

The Oradin was created as a Non-bot-Healbot character.
Most groups want in-combat healing, but in-combat healing is generally a poor use of resources, typically requiring not only a Standard action to cast the spell, but most Cure-type spells are Touch range, requiring the healer to be near the front-lines as well and/or making them use their Move action to get to the injured player.
Also, the player behind the character (usually) quickly comes to hate 'just healing every round'.
The Oradin is a combination of Oracle and Paladin that has most of the healing of your typical Healbot, but withOUT the monotony of "I cast Cure X Wounds" every round. It has high Bab, is fairly free with it's feats (allowing for a variety of builds alongside the healing), and, most importantly, usually only requires a Swift action every now and then to keep the ENTIRE GROUP healed.

For those of you unfamiliar with the build/concept here's a quick rundown (spoilered for space/length):

Spoiler

Life Link vs. Shield Other

Spoiler

Final verdict: Shield Other (if/when you get it) should go on the Squishier characters, Life Link for everyone else, and possibly Life Link for the Squishies as well.

Stat Arrangement
The Oradin is only slightly MAD, it wants/needs 3 Stats to function: CON, CHA, and either STR or DEX.
CON, since you are basically an 'HP Battery' you want as much HP as possible. Favored Class Bonus will usually be +1 HP for this reason (although a variety of races can apply Favored Bonus to better Lay on Hands healing).
CHA is useful for your Oracle and Paladin spellcasting, gives you more uses of Channel Energy from Oracle, and more uses of Lay on Hands from Paladin. It also adds to all of your Saving Throws thanks to Divine Grace.
STR and/or DEX will be important for whatever else you want your character to do. STR+Heavy Armor for a Front-Line warrior, or DEX for Ranged fighting.
INT is always handy if you can spare the points.
WIS is your dump stat. Both Oracle and Paladin have good Will Saves, and Paladin adds your CHA to your Will save as well.

Sample 'no race' 15 Point-Buy:
STR 16 (switch or split with DEX as desired)
DEX 10 (assuming Heavy Armor)
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 7
CHA 14
Obviously, any Race with a bonus to CON/CHA is preferred.

Low CHA
Low/No CHA options will be highlighted in Green

Spoiler

The Paladin
Bare minimum of Paladin levels: 2
2 levels of Paladin gets you +1d6 Lay on Hands useable CHA + 1/2 your Paladin Level per day.

Recommended levels: 4+
4 levels of Paladin gives you a Mercy, the option to use Lay on Hands to Channel Energy, various Immunities, and also begins your Paladin spellcasting (although Channel Energy is not gained until level 4, it still uses your Full Paladin level to determine how powerful it is).

The majority of your Oradin levels should probably be in Paladin. The primary reason for this is that Lay on Hands scales exponentially; every 2 levels of Paladin increases the healing by +1d6, and gives you +1/day uses.

Good Archetypes:
Hospitaler loses some uses of Smite Evil, but gains a dedicated Channel Energy pool with 3+CHA uses/day. Note: unlike Normal Paladin Channeling, Hospitaler has a -3 effective level penalty for its Channeling, still very worth it for the separate pool though. This frees up Lay on Hands for Self-use, and for Mercy/Status healing.
Sacred Servant trades some uses of Smite Evil, but picks up a Domain (powers scale at level-3). Also forms a Divine Bond with Holy Symbol for Extra Lay on Hands uses, and/or +1d6 to Channel Energy (amongst other possibilities).
Warrior of the Holy Light loses all spellcasting, but gains extra uses of Lay on Hands. Can spend Lay on Hands to create various beneficial Auras/bursts, including healing 1d4 points of Ability Damage.

Archetypes with Potential:
Divine Hunter is decent if going the Ranged attack route. The main ability to take note of is trading your 6th level Mercy for the ability to use Lay on Hands at range.
Holy Tactician doesn't lose any of the 'important' features, but trades Smite for 'group Smite', also loses more of the Auras and Immunities, in exchange, at 3rd you can grant all Allies within 30ft. the use of a Teamwork feat (Unlimited Duration), and at 8th you can spend a Move action to give everyone else a free 5ft. step.
Sacred Shield trades Smite Evil for the ability to project an Aura that protects allies from 1/2 damage for the chosen Evil target, the Paladin still takes full damage, but gets an AC bonus. BUT it also trades away Channel Energy for the ability to share your full Shield AC with nearby allies.
Stonelord, Dwarf-Only (note: this archetype trades away the majority of Paladin's CHA-dependent features for non-CHA-dependant features). Lose Divine Grace, but gain 1/2 DR/Adamantine per level. Channel Energy becomes strictly Earth-Elemental Channeling, lose almost all of your Mercies, and lose all spellcasting, in exchange you gain a chance to ignore Critical/Sneak damage taken, and gain a Defensive Stance as per the Stalwart Defender PrC. Normally Defensive Stances are less than stellar, but an Oradin is one of the few classes where they can be useful. Still maintains Full Lay on Hands.

Poor/Bad Archetypes:
Oath of Charity: your Lay on Hands is only 50% effective on yourself, but 150% effective on others. Since you are mainly using it on yourself, this is bad.

Other Archetypes:
If the archetype loses Lay on Hands and/or Channel Energy, and doesn't give a suitable replacement, then skip it.
All other archetypes do not significantly alter relevant abilities. You are free to use them at your discretion.

The Oracle
Bare minimum of Oracle levels: 1
1 level of Oracle gets you Life Link on 1 ally, or 1+CHA/Day Channel Energy (1d6). Can take the Extra Revelation feat for both, but you should REALLY just take...

Recommended levels: 3+
3 levels of Oracle, Can have both Channel Energy (2d6) and Life Link on up to 3 allies. More Oracle can be taken if more Life Links are needed/desired. Level 4 is highly recommended as it nets you some level 2 spells (and it's the last level before another Bab drop)
Quick Note, the Hellknight Signifier PrC will stack with Oracle for all Mystery related effects. In this case, more Life Links, and better Channel Dice.
Curses: Note, Curses scale at 1/2 rate for every non-Oracle level you take, due to the low amount of Oracle in the build it is doubtful the 15th level bonus will be reached, so it will not be factored into the ranking. Any Curse not listed is assumed to be 'neutral', doesn't really help or hurt.
Potential Curses:
-Clouded Vision, limits your sight range, gives Darkvision and Blindsense.
-Deaf, you cannot hear, but all spells count as Silent-ed, and gain bonuses on non-hearing Perception.
-Lame, your land speed is permanently reduced, but you become Immune to Fatigue, and cannot have your land speed reduced further (i.e. heavy load/armor).
-Wolfscarred face, gain a Bite attack but all your Verbal spells have a 20% chance of Failure (you do NOT lose the slot, you merely waste your action). Questionable if this also applies to Paladin spellcasting. Since your in-combat actions are likely to be Fighting and Channeling Energy, this is fairly moot.
Bad Curses:
-Blackened, -4 on To-Hit rolls is bad.
-Consumed, VERY bad, you take extra (non-lethal) damage on every hit, and the level 5 bonus is partially worthless when paired with your Paladin Immunities.
-Haunted, you mainly get more Spells Known, but without the Slots to cast them they are meaningless.
-Wasting, covered by Paladin Immunities.
-Wrecker, any weapon you hold is treated as Broken (-2 To-Hit and Damage).

Good Archetypes:
There are no Archetypes that really help an Oradin build.

Archetypes with Potential:
Dual-Cursed, you must choose 2 Curses (one of them never improves), and get an extra Revelation at level 5. Recommended for Larger Parties (where you're going to want more Life Links). A good pairing is Deaf and Wolfscarred, as the Silent Spells from Deaf negates the penalty from Wolfscarred.
Planar Oracle, pre-assigned level 3 Revelation, but it's a decent one, it gives Energy Resist 10 for the energy of your choice. Throw on the Extra Revelation feat and you're good to go.

Poor/Bad Archetypes:
Quick note: Some of these become better if you are willing to spend a feat on Extra Revelation and/or are going to be taking 7+ levels of Oracle.
Black-Blood Oracle, functions more as a Curse than a true archetype. You must take the Black-Blood Curse which treats you as Undead for Channel Energy. This could be a solid choice for Antipaladins if your DM rules Touch of Corruption can be used on Self as a Swift (by RAW it cannot).
Community Guardian, Halfling-Only, preassigned level 1 and 3 Revelations.
Possessed, must take Haunted or Tongues as your Curse. preassigned 1st level Revelation.
Purifier, Aasimar-Only, preassigned 3rd level Revelation.
Reincarnated, Samsaran-Only, must take Haunted or Tongues Curse, semi-preassigned 1st and 3rd level Revelations.
Seeker, you lose your 3rd level Revelation.
Seer, preassigned level 1 and 3 Revelations
Stargazer, preassigned level 1 Revelation.
Other Archetypes:
Any not listed above are assumed to be 'neutral', doesn't really help or hurt.

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 12:03 PM

Race Options
Quick note: Paladin Favored Class abilities have priority over Oracle, as it is assumed you will have more Paladin levels.

Main Seven:
Dwarves, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha: The CON is nice, but the CHA really hurts. Overall a sub-par choice. Becomes much better if you take Low CHA options (obviously).
Elves, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int: Mediocre stats, still arguably better than Dwarf stats. Good Favored Class bonus of +1/2 HP healed with Lay on Hands will quickly outpace +1HP/level. Take a pass, there are other races with the same Favored Option and MUCH better stats.
Gnome, -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha: Solid stats, and same Favored option as Elves make this one of the best options.
Half-Elves, +2 Any: The only race to get 2 Favored Classes, the Skilled feat can be kept, or traded for the Weapon Prof. of your choice, or +2 Will saves. Only slightly worse option than Human.
Halfling, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha: Good choice for a Ranged Oradin due to the STR/DEX mods, and the small size boosts your accuracy and AC. Also has the +1/2 HP to Lay on Hands Favored ability.
Half-Orc, +2 Any: Decent choice. The main draw here over going Human is the Orc Ferocity trait acting as a safety net. Can be bumped up to 'monster' Ferocity by way of a Feat.
Human, +2 Any: Always a solid choice. The stat goes where you want it, the extra Skill point helps if you dumped INT, and the Bonus feat is sweet.

Other Races: (only noteworthy ones, I'll probably miss a nice ability, please point it out in the most obnoxious way possible)
Aasimar, +2 Wis, +2 Cha: The base Aasimar is fairly average, offering Energy Resist 5 to Acid/Cold/Electricity. But if you are allowed access to Variant Heritage, they can get much better, getting either CON/CHA, STR/CHA, or DEX/CHA. And there are some decent bonuses in the Variant Ability table as well.
Duergar +2 Con, +2 Wis, -4 Cha, definitely NOT for Cha-based builds. But having Immunity to Paralysis and Poison, as well as a +2 racial bonus on ALL Saves makes them fairly tough. The 1/day each Enlarge Person and Invisibility are just icing on the Cake. Great for Inquisitor/Cleric based builds.
Gillmen, +2 Con, -2 Wis, +2 Cha: Great stats, but not much in the way of Racials other than Swim Speed. Water Dependent hurts (seriously, as in DEATH). There are Alt-Racials to get rid of Water Dependent, but you either gain Vulnerability to Fire (bad), or lose the Swim Speed (which is the best trait anyway). If it's an Aquatic Campaign, sure. If not, SKIP IT!
Ifrit, +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha: Good stats, Fire Resist 5 is always nice, can take an Alt-Race traits for 1/day Enlarge Person, and/or healing when taking Fire damage (limited).
Merfolk: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Cha: Excellent stats, +2 Natural Armor, and Immune to being Tripped. But has _5_ft. land speed with 50ft. swim speed. HIGHLY recommend taking the Strong Tail Alt-Racial for 15ft. land/30ft. swim.
Samsaran, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, The Con penalty hurts, but the Mystic Past Life alt-Racial Trait lets you fudge your spell lists some. The Wis bonus makes it a slightly better choice for a Low-Cha build.
Suli, +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Cha: Solid stats, Energy Resist 5 to Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire.
Svirfneblin, -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -4 Cha: Hahahahaha. No.
Tiefling, +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha: Energy Resist 5 to Cold/Electricity/Fire, the CHA Penalty hurts, but the Paladin Favored bonus is SWEET, a FULL +1HP when using Lay on Hands, but only when healing yourself. They also have Variant Heritages/Abilities like Aasimar's do. The best overall Heritage is probably Kyton with +2 CON, -2 WIS, +2 CHA, although there are others with +CHA. Best. Race. Possible. (minor debate whether the Fiendish Heritage feat is required to choose different stats)
Tengu +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis, despite the Con penalty, they make a solid choice for Inquisitor based-builds, the Sword Training trait helps make up for the lack of Martial Weapon profs.
Special Note:
Dhampir = BAD. They are treated as Undead for the purposes of Positive/Negative energy. BUT if you can get your DM to agree that Antipaladin's Touch of Corruption can be used on-self as a Swift (by default it can't), then a Chaotic Evil Dhampir could work as an Anti-Oradin.

Alternate Class Options
Alternate Base classes:
There are a few main abilities to look for: Sharing HP, Ranged Healing, Quick Healing, and Self Healing.
Replacing the Oracle component:
Oracle is the only way to get the Life Link ability, but Shield Other is also on the Cleric and Inquisitor lists, and can be easily added to the Druid list by way of the Samsaran race (which is a decent race otherwise).
Cleric would be the overall best option, as it has Channel Energy.
Witches, while having access to many "healing"-type spells make poor choices, as they do not have easy access to Shield Other. They make good replacements for "traditional" healers though, as their two Healing Hexes are fair replacements for Channeling (though MUCH more limited), and they can Spontaneously cast Cure spells by way of the Hedge Witch archetype.
Replacing the Paladin component:
Inquisitors can gain Fast Healing X through their Judgment ability equal to 1+1/3 of their Inquisitor levels. This also makes Inquisitors a Single-Class 'Oradin' option (through it will have much weaker healing).
Dwarves make great Inquisitoracles, they have a Favored Bonus of +1/2 Inquisitor level for purposes of one Judgment effect. So a Dwarf Inquisitor could have Fast Healing 1+1/2 Inquisitor levels.
If you do take levels of Oracle, don't be concerned about having good Cha, as you'll only need as much as necessary to cast whatever level Oracle spells you have. Also recommend skipping Channel Energy Revelation and taking something else.
Also, you could just go straight Inquisitor and forget all about CHA.
Alchemists can take the Spontaneous Healing and Healing Touch discoveries for limited healing. Spontaneous Healing gives you 5HP per 2 levels per day that you can use to heal yourself with as a Free Action. Healing Touch increases this to 5HP per level per day, and you can heal others as a Standard action. Alchemists also have all Cure spells on their ~~Spell~~ Formula List. The Chirurgeon archetype is recommended.

Another option would be Straight Oracle, grabbing the Energy Body revelation as soon as feasible. It costs a Standard action to start, but every round as a Move action you can heal yourself for 1d6+Oracle level, and Allies can pass through your space to gain this healing as well. Sadly, it only lasts for a number of Rounds equal to your Oracle level.

Other Classes:
Cavalier with Order of the Shield for 2 levels lets you convert 1 damage of every hit into Nonlethal damage (it does scale with more levels, must be wearing Heavy Armor). With the way Magical Healing interacts with Nonlethal damage, this is basically DR/-.
Fighter with the Unbreakable archetype for 1 level trades your normal Bonus Feat for Endurance and Diehard. While the feats are 'meh' on their own, they are pre-reqs for other feats that are useful for this build.

Prestige Options:
Holy Vindicator is by far the best PrC option. It has d10HD, Full Bab, 7/10 Divine casting, AND stacks for Channel Energy power. It can be entered as an Oracle 3/Paladin 4, apply the Casting to the Oracle levels, and the Channel boost to the Paladin levels (strongly recommend Hospitaler for the separate Paladin Channel pool). You will lose Lay on Hands uses/power, but you make up for it with greatly increased Casting ability. And starting at 3rd, any Self-Targeted Cure spells are treated as if Empowered.

(remaining PrC's are in alphabetical order)
Divine Scion has full spellcasting and gains Domain Specialization at 3rd level, you pick a Domain (ANY domain, does NOT have to be one you have), and anytime you cast a Spell from that Domain's spell you heal HP equal to the spells levelx2. This can be handy for the more Caster focused Oradins, but choose your Domain VERY carefully.

Hellknight Signifier is similar to Holy Vindicator in that you gain increased Casting and Channel Energy (but it can only stack for Oracle, not Paladin Channeling). It also stacks for the number of active Life Links you can have. The problem is that you need 3rd level spells to qualify, which either means 6+ levels of Oracle, or 10+ of Paladin. It is more Casting focused than Holy Vindicator.
NOTE: attempting to stack Holy Vindicator with Hellknight Signifier is...not optimal. Vindicator is easier to qualify for, but requires the Alignment Channel feat (or Elemental Channel). The first level of Signifier will give you Alignment Channel as a bonus feat, but you need 3rd level spells to qualify. 3rd level spells are easier to get if you *sigh* take levels in Holy Vindicator.
That being said, Signifier is still nice to finish out a Vindicator build: Oracle 3/Paladin 4/Holy Vindicator 10/Hellknight Signifier 3.

Inheritor's Crusader can double the radius of your Aura of Courage, but the casting must go towards Paladin. Skip it.

Surprisingly, the normally sub-par (i.e. HORRENDOUS) Stalwart Defender becomes a decent option. d12HD, DR/-. Some Defensive Stance powers are quite nice as well, more DR, making AoO's to stop opponent's movement, Intercept lets you take an attack aimed at an ally, etc... Paladin is still probably better overall, but it is an option.

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 12:04 PM

Feats:
There are LOTS of feats that can benefit an Oradin, but I'd only consider 1 of them truly mandatory, the rest are up to you.
Fey Foundling MUST HAVE if allowed. Must be taken at 1st level, no other reqs. Whenever you gain Magical Healing, you get an extra +2 HP per die rolled. You gain a small vulnerability to Cold Iron though (only +1 damage taken).
Also, a fair number of these have Endurance and Die Hard are pre-reqs, these feats can be quickly gotten with a 1 level dip in Unbreakable Fighter. These feats will also be marked with a (D/E).

Channeling
Alignment/Elemental Channel, poor choices on their own, but necessary to enter the Holy Vindicator PrC.
Channel Smite useful if fighting Undead.
Channeled Shield Wall, must have 3d6 Channel, can spend a use of Channel as a Swift action to give yourself and adjacent allies with Shields +2 to AC for Level/minutes.
Extra Channel can Channel +2/day (most likely apply to Paladin).
Quick Channel spend 2 uses of Channel to Channel as a Move Action. Extra bonus if your DM let's you pair up Oracle and Paladin Channeling (use the weaker one to use the stronger one faster).
Selective Channeling exclude targets from your Channel Energy. Very handy if you Channel in combat often.

Lay on Hands
Extra Lay on Hands can Lay on Hands +2/day, in terms of total HP healed, this is strictly worse than Extra Channel. But Lay on Hands can be used as a Swift Action, and/or can use Mercies to cure status effects.
Extra Mercy gain another Mercy when using Lay on Hands.
Greater Mercy if the target of your Lay on Hands cannot benefit from any of your Mercies they gain +1d6 healing instead. Very useful on-self.
Reward of Life whenever you use Lay on Hands to heal someone else, you gain HP equal to your CHA mod.
Ultimate Mercy spend 10 uses of Lay on Hands to cast Raise Dead.
Word of Healing spend 2 uses of Lay on Hands to use it at a distance of 30ft. It only heals 1/2 normal, but still applies full Mercies.

Other Feats
Extra Revelation, not so useful on it's own, as most Life Mystery Revelations need a decent Oracle level to be worth it, main use is to open up Oracle-Archetypes, as many of them force you to take specific Revelations at level 1 and/or 3.
Fast Healer (D/E) the poor man's Fey Foundling. When you receive healing (rest or magical) you heal extra HP equal to half of your CON mod. The extra healing is NOT per die.
Ferocious Resolve Must be Half-Orc with Orc Ferocity trait. Gives you the full Ferocity ability. Can be useful in emergencies, should not be relied upon.
Glorious Heat, only if the "unofficial errata" is NOT used. Otherwise skip it. Requires Caster level 5, every time you cast a Fire spell, the ally of your choice heals HP equal to 1/2 your level. The exploit is using a Cantrip (level 0) Fire spell and healing EVERYONE to full out of combat. The unofficial errata fixes/prevents this.
Resilient Brute Must be Half-Orc (or Orc). 1/day (eventually 2/day) you can convert half the damage from a Critical hit into Nonlethal damage. With the way Magical Healing works, this basically halves the damage, period.
Righteous Healing, Inquisitors only, Cure spells you cast while using Judgment heal an extra 1+1/3 level HP.
Shake It Off, Teamwork, gain +1 to All Saves for each adjacent Ally (good choice for Holy Tactician Paladin).
Shield Wall, Teamwork, must be using a Shield, gain bonus to AC if Ally has a Shield.
Stalwart (D/E) Can convert the AC bonus from Fighting Defensively (and other AC bonuses) into DR/-.
Toughness You are an HP Battery. This gives HP. 'nuff said.
Unsanctioned Knowledge add off-list spells to your Paladin Spell List.

Equipment
Standard Equipment

Wondrous Items
Amulet of Channeled Life (Advanced Race Guide)
VERY nice for Dhampirs, it allows them to gain Temporary HP instead of taking damage from Positive Energy. Any/All Dhampirs should seek one out.

Bracelet of Mercy (Ultimate Equipment)
Definitely worth getting, you get +1/day use of Lay on Hands, and gain the Remove Disease Mercy. If you have the Remove Disease Mercy, then you count as Caster level +4 for Removing Diseases.

Crystal of Healing Hands (Ultimate Equipment)
Skip it. Any Paladin can spend a Lay on Hands to 'store it in the Crystal', then the holder of the Crystal can spend a Standard action to use the healing (and mercies) that were stored. This would only be useful in extreme emergencies, or if you aren't doing your job.

Phylactery of Positive Channeling (Ultimate Equipment)
Your Channel Positive Energy ability heals/hurts an extra +2d6 dice. Most Oradin's will have 2 Channeling pools. GET THIS.

Symbol of Luck (Advanced Race Guide)
Halfling only, Channeling to heal grants those affected a +1 Luck bonus to all Saves for a number of rounds equal to your Channel Dice. Granted, it's a fairly small bonus, but it doesn't really take up any item slots, so it can be worth getting if you're a Halfling.

Wayfinder (Pathfinder Chronicles, Seekers of Secrets)
They require Ioun Stones to function, one of the possible bonuses is +1/day Lay on Hands, another possible bonus is +1/day Channel.

Artifacts
Bloodstones of Arazni (Artifacts and Legends)
The Heart Bloodstone grant the holder Lay on Hands ability equal to a Paladin of their level. If the bearer is also a Cleric, they are treated as having the Protection Domain in addition to their normal Domains (Cleric only, sorry Inquisitors). Unsure how this ability stacks if you have Paladin levels. Do you get a 2nd Lay on Hands pool? or do you just add your Non-Paladin levels to determine use/effect? If the first, AWESOME. If the 2nd, not as useful. But can still be worth seeking out if available.

Raven's Head (Artifacts and Legends)
It's a +3 Undead Bane Heavy Mace, grants the Channel Smite feat if you Channel Positive Energy. In an Undead Heavy campaign this could be quite useful. On the other hand, in an Undead Heavy campaign you may just want to take the feat. on the other other hand, if you are a Cleric of Pharasma, you are treated as +4 levels for Channel Energy when using Channel Smite.
Not that great for most Oradins.

Blyte · 09-30-2012, 12:43 PM

another downside to shield other is the short range tether you must operate on, 25ft + 5ft/2 levels, or the spell ends. it's very easy for inexperienced players to break that link.

shield other is still a decent option, and stronger in a few ways, as you mentioned, and also has a +1ac and saves bonus built in. it's definitely an option I would use when it comes on line for any oradin I would run, if we have any wizard or low hp aggressive striker.

edit.

... downside to life link is that it doesn't scale, fast healing 5 is huge for a while, but then rapidly becomes increasingly insignificant around level 9+.. I think they should have built in a boon for the pure oracles and made it fast healing 1/lvl.

but as is, life link is perfect for dipping.

shield other scales perfectly with monster damage output, on the other hand. I think it's going to be key that an oradin employs shield other in the upper levels. perhaps magical lineage (shield other) for a trait so you can extend them? and a lvl 4 oracle dip can get 8 hours on a cast?

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blyte

another downside to shield other is the short range tether you must operate on, 25ft + 5ft/2 levels, or the spell ends. it's very easy for inexperienced players to break that link.
...
shield other scales perfectly with monster damage output, on the other hand. I think it's going to be key that an oradin employs shield other in the upper levels. perhaps magical lineage (shield other) for a trait so you can extend them? and a lvl 4 oracle dip can get 8 hours on a cast?

Life Link also has a maximum range. But given that it has unlimited uses it is easier to reestablish.

And yes, Shield Other is quite nice, but they both have their optimal uses.
Shield Other works best on the Squishy Wizard. But the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian should be just fine with Life Link.
The main advantage, above all, is that Life Link has 'unlimited' uses, whereas even the most pimped out caster only has a handful of 2nd level spell slots.

Aemoh87 · 09-30-2012, 03:30 PM

I am so excited for this, one of my favorite builds, thanks Gararrg.

ericgrau · 09-30-2012, 03:38 PM

I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that. Life link is also much more convenient than shield other for getting a large number of targets with unlimited range. It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive.; any paladin can dip on the side.

In terms of raw healing ability it falls short. I looked into a paladin dip on my last build but I found that the lay on hands amount was less than the increase to channel energy. So for a non-action (doing only what I would do anyway) I get more than I'd get from the swift. Likewise shield other transfers far more life than life link. Life link was very low priority on that build, falling behind healing harder so I could shield more targets. Since that build is mostly oracle, spell slots aren't an issue. For the range problem you grab reach spell and select the talent that gives free metamagic to one specific spell (selecting shield other). Bam, 140+ foot range at level 4.

So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aemoh87

I am so excited for this, one of my favorite builds, thanks Gararrg.

Who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgrau

I like this build for the ability to heal on the side without disrupting your ability to fight. It seems perfect for that. Life link is also much more convenient than shield other for getting a large number of targets with unlimited range. It's not a lot of hp transferred, but it is enough to match your healing amount. Most importantly it's not very build intensive.; any paladin can dip on the side.

In terms of raw healing ability it falls short. I looked into a paladin dip on my last build but I found that the lay on hands amount was less than the increase to channel energy. So for a non-action (doing only what I would do anyway) I get more than I'd get from the swift. Likewise shield other transfers far more life than life link. Life link was very low priority on that build, falling behind healing harder so I could shield more targets. Since that build is mostly oracle, spell slots aren't an issue. For the range problem you grab reach spell and select the talent that gives free metamagic to one specific spell (selecting shield other). Bam, 140+ foot range at level 4.

So, nice battle healer. It's a great way to bring in healing when nobody wants to be the healer, and killing to prevent enemy damage is also helpful of course.

This is a very nice summary. I may have to do some minor edits and put in the guide proper.
Permission? Please?

navar100 · 09-30-2012, 03:56 PM

I'll be playing a single class Life Mystery Oracle healbot, and he's no pushover. I purposely want to do some buff others, but he can handle himself quite well in combat.

Caveat: We did use rolling for character creation. We're starting at 6th level.

16 Strength + morningstar +1 two-handed + Power Attack = 1d8 + 11 damage. Add in Furious Focus feat for no minus to hit. Sprinkle Divine Favor or Bull Strength as desired.

Energy Body Revelation - can heal myself as a move action and still Do Something - attack with morningstar, cast a spell.

In combat healing is not useless. It's not always the best option but neither is it always a terrible option. The one doing the healing doesn't have to be the one to get the killing blow all the time, every time. It's important enough to keep another party member up to do what he does best and save the day. It doesn't matter if the bad guy's damage is more than what I heal. What's important is if what I heal plus the party member's current hit points is more than what the bad guy's damage is.

Channel Energy revelation - 3d6 healing to all party members is an efficient use of healing. Add in Selective Channeling feat so I don't heal the bad guys.

For defense: breastplate with light fortification, admitted able to purchase outright using wealth by level table. Not necessarily a common option for those who start at 1st level. Cast Shield Of Faith if need be. In desperation or choice there's Sanctuary and Obscuring Mist.

Attack spells: Command, Hold Person, Dispel Magic.

If I used Battle Mystery certainly I'd be more effective in combat: great sword, heavy armor, act in surprise round, etc., but I purposely wanted to be a healbot. However, being a healbot does not mean you're a pathetic weakling who can't do anything else. An oracle is just a cleric who casts his spells spontaneously, and everyone knows what a cleric can do.

That said, there's nothing wrong with an "oradin". It can be quite effective as well. Enjoy.

ericgrau · 09-30-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grarrrg

This is a very nice summary. I may have to do some minor edits and put in the guide proper.
Permission? Please?

Of course. Go for it.

Akal Saris · 09-30-2012, 05:12 PM

Another way to conserve standard actions in combat is to use the Quick Channel feat to channel energy as a move action. By character level 7 an oracle 3/hospitaler 4 would probably have about 18 channel energy uses to burn a day, after all.

I would consider the following feats as well:
Fey founding - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera.../fey-foundling
Fire god's blessing (might not mix with oracle religion requirements) - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera...god-s-blessing

I'm not quite convinced that the lay on hands amount from paladin will scale adequately for most adventures. Does anyone have personal experience playing the build as suggested?

Tokuhara · 09-30-2012, 05:47 PM

I want to say that, like any divine caster, Aasimar is a good choice.

Specifically, I direct you to the Agathian-Blooded, who gets a +2 Charisma & Constitution Score. According to you Grrarrg, Con and Charisma are your primary stats, and this racial choice has both as bonuses. The fluff doesn't make sense, but look at it like this: that has never stopped Optimizers before...

Wise Green Bean · 09-30-2012, 07:55 PM

The Oracle Curse of lame is really good for this build. If you stick around in paladin through level 5, the mount almost entirely negates the negative effects. And you can sleep in your armor because you're immune to fatigue. Hell, if you're in medium or heavy armor, you wind up going the same speed by level 10 anyway, even without the mount, as you lose the speed penalties for encumbrance and armor.

navar100 · 09-30-2012, 07:56 PM

Human oracles can choose an extra spell known per level instead of a hit point or skill point as a favored class bonus, provided the DM is willing to allow that option.

My DM is.

ericgrau · 09-30-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akal Saris

Another way to conserve standard actions in combat is to use the Quick Channel feat to channel energy as a move action. By character level 7 an oracle 3/hospitaler 4 would probably have about 18 channel energy uses to burn a day, after all.

I would consider the following feats as well:
Fey founding - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera.../fey-foundling
Fire god's blessing (might not mix with oracle religion requirements) - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/genera...god-s-blessing

I'm not quite convinced that the lay on hands amount from paladin will scale adequately for most adventures. Does anyone have personal experience playing the build as suggested?

I'm more worried about the life linking effectively giving fast heal 5 to the party. That may not scale very well. But channel energy could make up the difference, and quick channel could make up the difference and still allow a battle build to do other things.

Though wow quick channel + regular channel would be pretty amazing for a focused healer too. My existing move action healing option was energy body but I think quick channel is a big upgrade. OTOH energy body lets you actually move and heal in the same move action. A build might take both and switch depending on tactical needs.

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navar100

Human oracles can choose an extra spell known per level instead of a hit point or skill point as a favored class bonus, provided the DM is willing to allow that option.

My DM is.

It is normally a nice option. But a few problems with that.
Oracle is only needed for around 4-ish levels, so that isn't a lot of spells known.
The spell must be 1 level lower than your highest possible spell, so a 4th level Oracle would have 3 extra cantrips, and 1 extra 1st level. Not really worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wise Green Bean

The Oracle Curse of lame is really good for this build. If you stick around in paladin through level 5, the mount almost entirely negates the negative effects. And you can sleep in your armor because you're immune to fatigue. Hell, if you're in medium or heavy armor, you wind up going the same speed by level 10 anyway, even without the mount, as you lose the speed penalties for encumbrance and armor.

Remember, Non-Oracle levels only count as 1/2 for Curse bonuses.
Don't worry, There will be a "Which Curse is right for you" section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokuhara

...According to you Grrarrg, Con and Charisma are your primary stats...

Who?

Tokuhara · 09-30-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grarrrg

Who?

I'm sorry. Your name is a sodding nightmare to spell. It defies the freaking English language!

grarrrg · 09-30-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokuhara

I'm sorry. Your name is a sodding nightmare to spell. It defies the freaking English language!

It's easy to spell.
First a g, then two r's, then an a, then five more z's, finally a g.

As for the "freaking English language", there's a good reason for that:

It's a made up word/name.

If you Google it you'll get one of two types of results.
A: stuff regarding me.
B: angry people.

Oddly enough, me using it as a name has nothing to do with anger.

Tokuhara · 09-30-2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grarrrg

It's easy to spell.
First a g, then two r's, then an a, then five more z's, finally a g.

As for the "freaking English language", there's a good reason for that:

It's a made up word/name.

If you Google it you'll get one of two types of results.
A: stuff regarding me.
B: angry people.

Oddly enough, me using it as a name has nothing to do with anger.

Sorry. The English nerd in me tends to go ape when someone misspells something. Bugger all, it makes me angry

Larpus · 10-02-2012, 12:03 PM

I said it before and I repeat it now, grrrarg: this is the most incredible heal-based build I've ever seen and the first one ever I actually consider giving a try at some point, or suggest to a friend who tends to really like healing (go figure...) so major kudos there.

EDIT: Spelled grrrarg's name wrongly.

ericgrau · 10-02-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grarrrg

It is normally a nice option. But a few problems with that.
Oracle is only needed for around 4-ish levels, so that isn't a lot of spells known.
The spell must be 1 level lower than your highest possible spell, so a 4th level Oracle would have 3 extra cantrips, and 1 extra 1st level. Not really worth it.

Even in general not getting an extra spell of your highest level is pretty mediocre. What you get are lots and lots of spells that don't matter very much. It's a little helpful for buffs and backup spells but I hope everyone out there isn't automatically selecting human for their sorcerers and oracles. Other races get nice perks too.

grarrrg · 10-10-2012, 08:50 PM

Added Feat section.
Did some editing throughout to improve readability.
Also, I managed to spell readability correctly on the first try.

Archpaladin Zousha · 10-17-2012, 11:50 AM

Something I was wondering about this. What would be a good level-by-level guide to a build like this? I really REALLY like this build, but I'm not sure how best to fit the character I have in mind into this build.

grarrrg · 10-17-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha

Something I was wondering about this. What would be a good level-by-level guide to a build like this? I really REALLY like this build, but I'm not sure how best to fit the character I have in mind into this build.

Well, sticking to either class for the 'minimum' levels then switching would work best.
Starting with Paladin for 2-to-4 levels gets you Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Heavy Armor and Martial Profs. So you could play your early career as a normal Beatstick.
Starting with Oracle for 3-ish levels gets you Channeling sooner and quicker access to spells. You'd play your early career as a, well, you'd make a good Healbot...

Which you start with depends on your play style, and party size, and party needs, and...

As for Feats and such, first you have to determine just what feats you want, and how much "healing" vs. "other" feats you like and...

GoodbyeSoberDay · 10-17-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgrau

Even in general not getting an extra spell of your highest level is pretty mediocre. What you get are lots and lots of spells that don't matter very much. It's a little helpful for buffs and backup spells but I hope everyone out there isn't automatically selecting human for their sorcerers and oracles. Other races get nice perks too.

IME casters get (and need to get) a lot of mileage out of lower level slots. 8th level Sorcerers still want to cast Haste/Slow/Stinking Cloud and more, after all. There's also a lot of great utility spells at low levels... although paragon surge makes that irrelevant.

Archpaladin Zousha · 10-17-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grarrrg

Well, sticking to either class for the 'minimum' levels then switching would work best.
Starting with Paladin for 2-to-4 levels gets you Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Heavy Armor and Martial Profs. So you could play your early career as a normal Beatstick.
Starting with Oracle for 3-ish levels gets you Channeling sooner and quicker access to spells. You'd play your early career as a, well, you'd make a good Healbot...

Which you start with depends on your play style, and party size, and party needs, and...

As for Feats and such, first you have to determine just what feats you want, and how much "healing" vs. "other" feats you like and...

I was thinking an Oracle 6/Paladin 4/Divine Scion of Ragathiel 10?

grarrrg · 10-17-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha

I was thinking an Oracle 6/Paladin 4/Divine Scion of Ragathiel 10?

If you think the game will go to level 20, then you may want to do the bare minimum 2 Levels of Paladin, this way you'll still get 9th level spells. If that's the case, then it doesn't much matter which archetype (if any) you choose, as most aren't really noticeable until level 4 and up.

But, assuming you want 4 of Paladin, then you may as well go Warrior of the Holy Light. You lose Paladin spells, but gain an extra use of Lay on Hands, and can spend a use of Lay on Hands to give the group a +1 to AC/To-Hit/Damage for 1 minute.
You can then add either the Hospitaler Archetype, or the Holy Tactician (but not both).
Hospitaler will trade your 2nd use of Smite Evil for a separate Channeling Pool (edit: unlike normal Paladin channeling, your effective level is -3).
Holy Tactician is a bit more involved, giving a weaker 'group' Smite evil, and trading your Divine Health and Aura of Courage for the ability to share the Teamwork feat of your choice with the entire group.

As for Oracle and Divine Scion, only take 3 levels, or as many Oracle levels as you need for Life Links, before entering the PrC, as it has Full Casting, and you wouldn't get another Revelation until level 7 anyway. (exception being Dual Cursed Oracle who gets a Revelation at 5th)

Start with either Oracle or Paladin, you seem more casting focuses, so lets just say Oracle for the moment:
Oracle 3/Paladin 4/Divine Scion 10/Oracle +3

As for the Divine Scion Specialized Domain, there are a few things to consider:
Your Domain-Spec bonus.

Destruction: Break 3/day, +4 on Intimidate
Good: Constant Detect Evil, +2 Will Save
Law: Constant Detect Chaos, +2 Will Save
Nobility: Command 1/day, +4 on Diplomacy

All of your Classes have Good Will Saves already, you need Iron Will to enter the PrC, and Divine Grace adds your CHA to your Saves anyway, so shy away from Good and Law (and Paladin's also have Detect Evil, another mark against Good).
On the other hand, even though you are CHA based, your Skills will likely be limited (especially since Divine Scion needs a total of 15 skills to enter), so you may not get any use out of Intimidate or Diplomacy either.
Regardless, SKIP GOOD, it just has too much overlap.

Another thing to consider is that every time you cast a spell from your Domain, you heal twice its level in HP. So try to pick the list that you'll get the most use from.
I'm not going to go in depth on Domain spells, as Ragathiel has 4 Domains, and 4 Sub-Domains.

As far as Feats go, Iron Will and Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) are a must due to PrC Pre-reqs. The rest of the feats mainly depend on your preferred play style, and how much dedicated Healing you need to do.

Archpaladin Zousha · 10-17-2012, 11:33 PM

And say I want to ditch Divine Scion in favor of Holy Vindicator? I'm honestly debating the two...

grarrrg · 10-18-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha

And say I want to ditch Divine Scion in favor of Holy Vindicator? I'm honestly debating the two...

Well, Holy Vindicator is easier to qualify for, mainly due to Skill Reqs. It only needs 5 spent, where Scion needs 15.
Feat-wise it is 'technically' cheaper. But the 1 Feat for Vindicator will likely be fairly worthless, whereas you'll get plenty of use out of the 2 required for Scion.

Vindicator has better Bab/HD, but worse casting.
Scion has better casting, but worse Bab/HD.

Of the two, only Vindicator stacks for Channeling power though.

Basically, it comes down to Holy Vindicator being the Paladin to Divine Scions Oracle.
If you want more Face-Smashy, go Vindicator.
If you prefer Spells, go Divine Scion.

Archpaladin Zousha · 10-18-2012, 12:33 AM

Vindicator then, I want the face smashy.