If the Emperor Fully healed would it matter? [WH40k]

[LordShotGun]

Originally Posted by bluntpencil

The Ordo Chronos have already dealt with this, gentlemen. Move along...

Huh? Explain.

Also, are there any good fanfictions that deal with this topic?

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

But does he even exist anymore, is what I'm saying. The Necrons beat up and imprisoned all of the C'tan millions of years before the Emperor ever existed, in the Newcron continuity.

While I am not against the idea of restricting the use of CTan in the warfare itself, they really removed ALL of them from continuity? Not any are actually active in the past 20,000 years?

[bluntpencil]

Originally Posted by LordShotGun

Huh? Explain.

Also, are there any good fanfictions that deal with this topic?

I was being flippant and explaining the lack of Daleks and Time Lords with a lesser known Inquisitorial faction. Who have all disappeared.

[LordShotGun]

So long story short, if the Emperor healed and woke up and he gained power from the worship of trillions, the he could pretty much curbstomp just about every threat due his ability to create new space marines at the drop of a hat and has several millennium of lost technology in his head. So entire legions of terminator space marines.

Necrons are little threat.
Orcs could possibly be manipulated via Psy energy but otherwise still die to space marines.
Zerg Tyranids- Would be dangerous particularly if they ate the Orcs but still vulnerable to space marines.
Tau = no threat even to the broken Imperium
Eldar are busy fighting a civil war so he can help or ignore them.

Chaos would be troublesome as the Emperor's presence would possibly unite the warring factions and chaos would be able to corrupt new space marines thus gaining any new technology he would equip his new legions.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by bluntpencil

I was being flippant and explaining the lack of Daleks and Time Lords with a lesser known Inquisitorial faction. Who have all disappeared.

You should have gone with the Adeptus dominus temporis instead.

[GolemsVoice]

Adeptus Malus Latinicus

[BRC]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

Adeptus Malus Latinicus

The true power behind the Imperium.

[Selrahc]

Originally Posted by Eldan

You should have gone with the Adeptus dominus temporis instead.

The Ordos Chronos is an actual backstory element of 40k. However you already know basically the totality of what has been printed. There was an Inquisitorial Order being set up to deal with threats to the Chronological Integrity of the Imperium. Then it mysteriously vanished. Super successful or super unsuccessful? Nobody knows.

[hamishspence]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

But does he even exist anymore, is what I'm saying. The Necrons beat up and imprisoned all of the C'tan millions of years before the Emperor ever existed, in the Newcron continuity.

The 5E Necron book does allow for C'tan shards having evaded the Necrons- could be four, could be four thousand, no-one knows for sure.

For the creature in Mechanicum to be a "shard" rather than a complete C'tan, does downgrade the Emperor's achievement somewhat- but not necessarily that much. Even the shards are pretty powerful.

[lord_khaine]

So long story short, if the Emperor healed and woke up and he gained power from the worship of trillions, the he could pretty much curbstomp just about every threat due his ability to create new space marines at the drop of a hat and has several millennium of lost technology in his head. So entire legions of terminator space marines.

Necrons are little threat.
Orcs could possibly be manipulated via Psy energy but otherwise still die to space marines.
Zerg Tyranids- Would be dangerous particularly if they ate the Orcs but still vulnerable to space marines.
Tau = no threat even to the broken Imperium
Eldar are busy fighting a civil war so he can help or ignore them.

Ahh no..

To start with we have no idea if, or evidence off that the emperor would or does gain power from being worshipped, and its something that i find higly unlikely seing as that should then have motivated him to start the emperiel cult proberly while he were mobile.

As for the creation of hordes of new marines, or for that matter tons of lost technologi then i also find that highly unlikely that the emperor flawlesly remember or knows that technology without the assistance of those scientiests that where part of the original creation of marines.

Also, Necrons to start with would continue being a huge threat due to still being far more advanced than the empire, and they killed or enslaved the C'tan, there are no reason to belive the emperor could not suffer the same fate due to bad luck or judgement (more of same then )

And yes Orks die to space Marines, unfortunately Space Marines also die to enough Orks, and there are a lot of Orks.

Tyranids, same as Orks but worse, since the more powerfull kinds can take a Marine (or an entire team of them), 1 on 1.

Tau and Eldar i agree on doesnt have the numbers to pose a real threat, though its Tau who has a few problems with a brewing civil war, not the Eldar.

For the creature in Mechanicum to be a "shard" rather than a complete C'tan, does downgrade the Emperor's achievement somewhat- but not necessarily that much. Even the shards are pretty powerful.

considering how omnipotent the new Necron fluff makes the C'tan out to be, then it does sound more likely that we are dealing with a shard here.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Originally Posted by hamishspence

The 5E Necron book does allow for C'tan shards having evaded the Necrons- could be four, could be four thousand, no-one knows for sure.

For the creature in Mechanicum to be a "shard" rather than a complete C'tan, does downgrade the Emperor's achievement somewhat- but not necessarily that much. Even the shards are pretty powerful.

I've not found a Newcron reference to the Void Dragon, yet. Has it been mentioned since that change up?

If the idea isn't being continued the whole thing may have been soft retconned out of canon. With changes as big as the Newcrons anything printed before becomes written on water until confirmed again. That same bits of the Codex also throws out things like there have maybe been things taken for C'tan that weren't, even offering Daemons as an explanation.

Not that it isn't possible, but the Void Dragon may join the Star Child on the pile of discarded notions GW decided were heretical after all.

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

I've not found a Newcron reference to the Void Dragon, yet. Has it been mentioned since that change up?

If the idea isn't being continued the whole thing may have been soft retconned out of canon. With changes as big as the Newcrons anything printed before becomes written on water until confirmed again. That same bits of the Codex also throws out things like there have maybe been things taken for C'tan that weren't, even offering Daemons as an explanation.

Not that it isn't possible, but the Void Dragon may join the Star Child on the pile of discarded notions GW decided were heretical after all.

I toy with the idea that these fluff theories and rambling are simply rumors among the Inquisitors, about potential threats to the Imperium.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Ahh no..

To start with we have no idea if, or evidence off that the emperor would or does gain power from being worshipped, and its something that i find higly unlikely seing as that should then have motivated him to start the emperiel cult proberly while he were mobile.

I think it's reasonably uncontroversial that *as a pure Warp entity* the Imperial Cult would empower the Emperor, in the same way dedicated acts strengthen the Chaos Gods and the Waaagh field empowers the totems of the Orks- this is the base behind the Star Child theory. It's less clear if he would be able to access that power source as a living Materium-based being; personally I find it unlikely too, although if the pre-existing canon holds the Emperor doesn't *need* any extra power to be possibly the single most powerful psychic force in the galaxy.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

While I am not against the idea of restricting the use of CTan in the warfare itself, they really removed ALL of them from continuity? Not any are actually active in the past 20,000 years?

Not exactly. The C'tan did exist, but millions of years ago, the Necrons turned on them and basically smashed them into pieces, then enslaved the still-incredibly-powerful shards. They left wiggle room, but the current canon is that no C'tan were active between the time the 'Crons went to sleep and when they woke up again.

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

To start with we have no idea if, or evidence off that the emperor would or does gain power from being worshipped, and its something that i find higly unlikely seing as that should then have motivated him to start the emperiel cult proberly while he were mobile.

Much more likely than you'd think - remember, he didn't want to be worshipped as a god. He didn't want any gods, his whole motivation for the Crusade was exterminating the four Chaos Gods whether he thought of them as gods or not. So the last thing he would have done was explicitly encourage his own deification.

[deuterio12]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Much more likely than you'd think - remember, he didn't want to be worshipped as a god. He didn't want any gods, his whole motivation for the Crusade was exterminating the four Chaos Gods whether he thought of them as gods or not. So the last thing he would have done was explicitly encourage his own deification.

So that's why he walked around in a super-shiny armor with halos around his head and always made grand entrances wherever he went while keeping a super aura of mystery and superiority around himself?

Not to mention, the Word Bearers legion worshiped him for some 200 years that lasted the Great Crusade until things turned south. Them and all of the planets they conquered and were made to worship the emprah.

Yet there was no visible change on the emprah himself. If anything, he was worst after so much worship and started commiting fatal slips after fatal slip that helped unfold into the Horus Heresy.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by deuterio12

So that's why he walked around in a super-shiny armor with halos around his head and always made grand entrances wherever he went while keeping a super aura of mystery and superiority around himself?

Not to mention, the Word Bearers legion worshiped him for some 200 years that lasted the Great Crusade until things turned south. Them and all of the planets they conquered and were made to worship the emprah.

Yet there was no visible change on the emprah himself. If anything, he was worst after so much worship and started commiting fatal slips after fatal slip that helped unfold into the Horus Heresy.

And when he found out about the Word Bearers worshipping him, he smacked them down so hard they joined Chaos, remember?

[deuterio12]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

And when he found out about the Word Bearers worshipping him, he smacked them down so hard they joined Chaos, remember?

Indeed, he did that to his own "son", at the cost of planting the seeds of the Horus Heresy. His own Imperium would burn for that, but the emprah cared not as long as the Word Bearers didn't worship him anymore.

Now it's the full imperium worshiping him. How amused do you think he'll be?

How many of the imperium's forces will turn for the chaos gods for salvation this time when the emprah orders the purging of everything in sight?

[hamishspence]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

I've not found a Newcron reference to the Void Dragon, yet. Has it been mentioned since that change up?

In one of the White Dwarfs shortly after the debut of 5E Codex Necrons- it lists some of the common C'tan shards, and appropriate powers for them- including the Void Dragon.

[lord_khaine]

Much more likely than you'd think - remember, he didn't want to be worshipped as a god. He didn't want any gods, his whole motivation for the Crusade was exterminating the four Chaos Gods whether he thought of them as gods or not. So the last thing he would have done was explicitly encourage his own deification.

Yeah and thats the main argument for why he would not gain power from worship.

Since if that had been the case, he would both have better able to starve the other gods by taking all the worship for himself, while eventualy putting himself in a position where he could have fought them as an equal.

[Traab]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Yeah and thats the main argument for why he would not gain power from worship.

Since if that had been the case, he would both have better able to starve the other gods by taking all the worship for himself, while eventualy putting himself in a position where he could have fought them as an equal.

Its too bad, thats a pretty interesting method of defeating the gods, if you cant outright stab them in the face, starve them to death by taking all of their worshipers. Its a fairly common theme in fantasy stories that have direct divine interference. The gods need those worshippers. Losing them actually can cause them pain. If they lose them all, they start to fade away, eventually becoming nothing more than faint whispers in the wind. Eventually being on an immortals scale, not like a few years later.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Traab

Its too bad, thats a pretty interesting method of defeating the gods, if you cant outright stab them in the face, starve them to death by taking all of their worshipers. Its a fairly common theme in fantasy stories that have direct divine interference. The gods need those worshippers. Losing them actually can cause them pain. If they lose them all, they start to fade away, eventually becoming nothing more than faint whispers in the wind. Eventually being on an immortals scale, not like a few years later.

That was the Emperor's plan, pretty much - not by taking their worshippers for himself, but convincing people not to worship them and killing the ones who didn't listen. And it would have worked too, if it weren't for his meddling kids.

[Tiki Snakes]

Originally Posted by Traab

Its too bad, thats a pretty interesting method of defeating the gods, if you cant outright stab them in the face, starve them to death by taking all of their worshipers. Its a fairly common theme in fantasy stories that have direct divine interference. The gods need those worshippers. Losing them actually can cause them pain. If they lose them all, they start to fade away, eventually becoming nothing more than faint whispers in the wind. Eventually being on an immortals scale, not like a few years later.

I mostly agree. It's a pretty cool way to deal with a set of Dark Gods.

I think the reason why that's not a plan in 40k is that, possibly anyway, the whole revering of Gods and the energy it provides might not be exclusive as such.
It would make a strange kind of sense if, even if the Emperor became the Star-Child and able to receive such warp-empowerment (I don't believe he would whilst still corporeal and alive, personally), the Chaos Gods would also benefit. Either it strengthens the Warp itself, or they feed off of ambient energies as facets of the themes and ideas expressed in the human reverence for the emperor touch upon their own portfolios. The former feels more likely and less like translating D&D ideas to 40k, admittedly.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by Selrahc

The Ordos Chronos is an actual backstory element of 40k. However you already know basically the totality of what has been printed. There was an Inquisitorial Order being set up to deal with threats to the Chronological Integrity of the Imperium. Then it mysteriously vanished. Super successful or super unsuccessful? Nobody knows.

Really? I thought I was just making a bad Doctor Who joke. Where's that from?

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Really? I thought I was just making a bad Doctor Who joke. Where's that from?

I think it's a bad Black Library joke from way back in the day when they were fixing the inconsistencies within the fluff from the changeover from 2nd to 3rd Ed and what they were and were not going to keep.

[bluntpencil]

Ordo Chronos are also in Dark Heresy, mentioned every now and then. In the Haarlock campaign, I think, since it has time screwery.

But yeah, Emperor gets off his ass=Imperium wins. If the Chaos Gods make Horus Mk II, Chaos wins.

If Cypher is still canon and does his damn job, who knows?!

(Any mention of Cypher in new Chaos book?)

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by bluntpencil

Ordo Chronos are also in Dark Heresy, mentioned every now and then. In the Haarlock campaign, I think, since it has time screwery.

But yeah, Emperor gets off his ass=Imperium wins. If the Chaos Gods make Horus Mk II, Chaos wins.

Issue: Horus wasn't able to stand up to the Emperor in terms of strength. He was able to keep the Emperor focusing his strength because of the personal connection he had to the Emperor, being his favored son and all. Making a new Horus would therefore be somewhat impossible.

[bluntpencil]

Originally Posted by Tavar

Issue: Horus wasn't able to stand up to the Emperor in terms of strength. He was able to keep the Emperor focusing his strength because of the personal connection he had to the Emperor, being his favored son and all. Making a new Horus would therefore be somewhat impossible.

Horus was still very powerful, however.

If there was a new Horus (or Abaddon got even more super-powered), Chaos would win pretty fast. Basically, if Chaos had a super-leader uniting them. Unlikely really, since they're winning anyway.

[Forum Explorer]

Originally Posted by bluntpencil

Ordo Chronos are also in Dark Heresy, mentioned every now and then. In the Haarlock campaign, I think, since it has time screwery.

But yeah, Emperor gets off his ass=Imperium wins. If the Chaos Gods make Horus Mk II, Chaos wins.

If Cypher is still canon and does his damn job, who knows?!

(Any mention of Cypher in new Chaos book?)

There's a new Chaos book?

[hamishspence]

Yup. No mention of Cypher though. New units- but no new special characters or returning old ones.

[The Succubus]

Hmmm, if the Emperor finally got off his throne, IMO as a medical expert:

1) He'd need rather a lot of physiotherapy to rebuild his leg muscles from where he'd been seated so long, probably using a wheel-throne to begin with and gradually working up to crutches.

2) The first thing he'd probably ask was "Where's the nearest toilet?"

3) To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised he hasn't died from DVT yet.


WH40K is so unrealistic. =/