Homebrew DesignRoll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.
To those unfamiliar LOC (Lords of Creation) is a game played on these pbp forums. The game consists of players becoming gods, and then slowly making a whole world/setting around themselves.
The current rules have numerous problems and hopefully as a group we can correct them all.
Current Rules
Spoiler
The Rules
Lords of creation is a free-form game by its very nature. Even so, we like to maintain a set of rules along with our systems to use as guidelines to ensure that play is as enjoyable as it can be for all players.
Posting Quota
This game, like other Lords of Creation games, requires that you post at least once every three weeks; however, it is highly advisable that you post much more often than that. If you fail to post once in three weeks, your deity if considered deceased.
Firstworld Sanctum
Not just Earth, but the entire material Universe can’t support divine beings intermediate status and higher. Your God though can use up an Infusion and 5 AP to use the Break the Chain action to ignore this rule.
Game Play Rules
As always the rules are constantly being improved and changed so please review. I liked a lot of AvocadoAvenger's system and incorporated them to my own Omnigenesis rules while removing the more extraneous and unpopular actions from the list (such as the abilities which have proved more trouble than they were worth). All in all these rules are EXTREMELY comprehensive. You want to make Sci-FI, there is a specific provision. You want to make Necromancy right away? Nope, you need to make Arcane magic first. You want to twist Angles into Demons, instead of making Demons; there is an AP action for that. You want to make a sun? Cool – use Create Astronomical Object. Wait, you want the Sun to be a castle as well? Cool – that’s a Relic Action. And so on.
The Max AP any god may have is 30 AP.
ALL PLAYERS START WITH 15 AP
Please Read the Rules, THEY ARE VERY SPECIFIC.
AP Actions
Spoiler
1 AP Actions
-Alter Land: Alter land allows a god to change already existing landscapes. It can be used to create mountain ranges, vast forests, lakes, swamps, or any other kind of "land type" you could think of. This includes razing and raising cities! Alter land can also be used to raise small chains of islands from the sea. These islands cannot be very big, but can be large enough to support a small kingdom. Think about the size of Hawaii. An alter Land only takes 1 AP to create, and 2 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 3 AP to reinstate, and 4 AP to recounter it, and so on.
- Bless/Curse: Blesses and Curses are the will of the gods made manifest. They can range from a golden age for an empire, or to increase the mortal population. The population that finds themselves under the pleasure of a god will find their crops prosperous and their ways smoothed, as the subtle magic of the god is worked in their favor, The population that finds themselves under the curse of a god will find their crops barren and their land blighted, as the subtle magic of the god works against them. . Blesses and Curses can be countered by other gods, however. Each time it is countered, it becomes harder and harder for the gods to exert their will over each other. A blessing or Curse only takes 1 AP to create, and 2 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 3 AP to reinstate the curse, and 4 AP to recounter it, and so on. You use Bless/Curse actions on societies or organization, not individuals.
- Censure/Praise: You use Censure/Praise actions on individuals or small groups of people not societies or whole organizations. Unlike Bless/Curse this action can be more severe, like turning someone to stone or bringing back one person back from the dead. A Censure/Praise only takes 1 AP to create, and 2 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 3 AP to reinstate the curse, and 4 AP to recounter it, and so on.
-Form Society: Form Society allows a god to organize life into grouping beyond simple hunter-gatherer tribes or wandering monsters. This action can be used to set up governments and armies, but not specific things like a mage's guild or an order of knights. (A well established army will obviously be better suited for a prolonged conflict than ill equipped savages. This is represented by the fact that Mortals in societies may use advanced concepts for combat.) Mortals not in any society may not. A mortal may only be part of one society at any given time.
- Alter Existing Race: With permission of the controlling god, or with victory over the controlling god under RCR you may create your own Race out of an existing Race.
2 AP Actions
-Create Land: Create Land allows a god to create land where there is none. It can be used to raise a small continent from the sea, or create large, floating islands in a plane where there is no planet. Land created by Create Land can be up to the size of Australia. A create land only takes 2 AP to create, and 3 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 4 AP to reinstate, and 5 AP to recounter it, and so on.
-Form Order: Form Order allows a god to organize their followers into organizations similar to guilds. These orders can be such things as a Mage's Guild, or an Order of Knights, or even a Company of Mercenaries. Orders are different from Societies in that they can utilize magical as well as advanced concepts during combat.
- Forge Alliance : An alliance is a group of gods who have sworn to protect each other an act together. Being in an alliance allows gods to share AP, and gives them bonuses to combat when fighting together. Gods may be banned from an alliance irrevocably, and must have an invitation extended to them from the leader before joining in the first place. There may be separate alliances within a pantheon, separate pantheons within an alliance, or alliances and pantheons that consist of the same gods.
-Join Alliance/Pantheon: Joining an alliance or a pantheon has its own set of benefits. Both cost 2 AP. See rules for Alliances and Pantheons.
-Form Nexus: You may create a location of mystic and divine energy. This nexus may be a portal from one plane to another, or may simply be a special location important to the story. This ability is largely a thematic bonus. A nexus may be a building, a door, a portion of a forest, a specific cave, but must be a specific location – it cannot be “the ocean”
3 AP Actions
- Create Pantheon: A pantheon is a group of gods whose followers acknowledge the godhood of the other members for the mutual benefit of the gods. Because they spent the extra AP to create the pantheon, the god who created the pantheon has admin rights, and may ban other gods from the pantheon. A banned god MAY NOT rejoin the pantheon without the administrators permission. A god may only be a member of one pantheon at a time. Each member of the Pantheon gains 1 AP per three members, which can be used for anything and combined with normal AP. If the pantheon drops below three members, this AP ceases to function. This AP is gained normally at rollover, but does not rollover itself (the amount gained every week is considered to be the maximum amount).
-Promote Leader : A leader is someone who is responsible for leading his people or organization, and the first step in the ranks of heroic mortals. A leader is generally thought of as a civil diplomat who does not see a lot of action, while the next step, the hero, is someone who is a skilled combatant. If the AP is spent to make someone a hero, they may or may not be assumed to be a leader as well.
-Weave Sanctum : You may create a location of divinity attuned to your god. This location may be anywhere. If it is not on the material plane, you need the permission of the master of the plane to use this action. Your seat of power may be a layer of a plane, or a simple foreboding castle. Gods may only enter another God’s sanctum if they have permission or initiated combat.
-Scourge/Boon: Similar to bless/curse a Scourge/Boon creates a much more serious effect. One this is not subtle magic, it can be an instantaneous disease or a sudden resurrection of an entire group! If you blessing or curse is more serious than "Crops fail" or "My people become really good at using sword" it's probably a Scourge/Boon. An Scourge/Boon takes 3 AP to create, and 4 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 5 AP to reinstate, and 6 AP to recounter it, and so on. You use Scourge/Boon actions on societies or organization, not individuals.
- Exalt/Condemn: You use Exalt/Condemn actions on individuals or small groups of people not societies or whole organizations. The line between Exalt/Condemn and Censure/Praise is a thin one. Where Praise can bring a person back from the dead, Exalt can elevate someone to mastery over a whole species. Where Censure can strike one person dead, Condemn can wrap him in chains formed from the heart of a dying sun and drag him to the lowest pit in hell. A Exalt/Condemn only takes 3 AP to create, and 4 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 5 AP to reinstate the curse, and 6 AP to recounter it, and so on.
-Create Artifact: An artifact is a powerful item or tool. They are imbued with power beyond that of most mortal's imagining. Artifacts can do many things, from resurrecting the dead, to causing small earthquakes. Artifacts are the tools of Mighty Heroes. Gods cannot wield artifacts, the sheer force of divine power would crush an artifact within seconds. A mortal can claim an artifact for his/her own in a couple of ways. 1) it's presented to him by a god/mortal. 2) He engages in battle (combat or OoC predetermined) for it. A mortal or god may rend/modify an artifact in the following ways: 1) Destroying something is always easier than creating, for 2 AP a god may destroy an artifact in his possession (If you don't possess the artifact, refer to how to claim an artifact) 2) A god may modify an artifact in his possession for 1 AP, modification can alter a chalice of eternal life into instant death. A mortal must be at least a Hero or of a legendary race to wield an artifact. Artifacts cannot reduce AP costs, because they are mortal tools not divine tools, but their abilities could emulate but not rival any 1 AP action per week.
-Form Astronomical Object: Use this action to create a celestial body such as a moon, planet, asteroid, or sun. If your astronomical object has special properties such as an empathic link to yourself, or can move contrary to the rules of gravity and physics – it is a Relic NOT an Astronomical Object and costs 4 AP. If you plan to create an astronomical action to crash into the world (happens more than you think) that will cost this action PLUS a scourge action (6 total AP) – before doing anything so drastic bring it up in the OoC first. An Astronomical Object only takes 3 AP to create, and 4 AP to counter, however, once countered; it takes 5 AP to reinstate, and 6 AP to recounter it, and so on.
- Gain Domain: The Gain Domain action allows a god to gain an additional Domain and an accompanying Portfolio. The god must first have spent 7AP worth of AP on things related to the Domain they wish to gain. The Gain Domain action may never be used to qualify for a Domain, but any other action can be.
4 AP Actions
-Create Relic: Relics are powerful items that would destroy any mortal who is not a Legend, if they tried to use one. Only gods have the force of will to wield a Relic. Relics can do almost anything a god can imagine, and grant them bonuses to divine combat. A God can claim a Relic for his/her own in a couple of ways. 1) it's presented to him by another God. 2) He engages in battle (Combat or OoC predetermined) for it. A god may rend/modify a Relic in the following ways: 1) Destroying something is always easier than creating, for 3 AP a god may destroy an Relic in his possession (If you don't possess the Relic, refer to how to claim an Relic) 2) A god may modify an Relic in his possession for 2 AP, modification can alter the book of future possibilities into a book of past outcomes. The Creator of the Relic is immediately aware of its destruction. Like an earthquake, energy from a relic sends shockwaves throughout the cosmos, and those attuned to them, such as the creator, or other gods who have previously wielded the relic for extended lengths of time, would feel it. Many players like to forgo RCR bonuses to make Relics that reduce the cost of certain actions; if so an appropriate guideline is that a Relic can reduce the cost of 1 specific action by 1.
5 AP Actions:
-Weave Plane: Weave Plane allows a god to create the fabric of their own reality. Planes are entire dimensions apart from the normal world, and can take any form a god can imagine. Hell, Heaven, or Limbo, are examples of planes. When weaving a plane, the creating god must decide on any special features it has, such as accelerated time, or empowered magic. A god may also decide how many layers there are initially. This can vary from one, to thousands, though most planes have less than three. Unlike a sanctum a god gets no special benefit for being within his or her own realm or plane.
Raise Hero : A hero is the second step in the ranks of heroic mortals. A leader is generally thought of as a civil diplomat who does not see a lot of action, while the hero, is someone who is a skilled combatant. If the AP is spent to make someone a hero, they may or may not be assumed to be a leader as well. A leader can be promoted to a hero for 2 AP. A hero may aid one god in a conflict between two deities, but may not initiate one.
- Divine Infusion : A divine infusion is when a god merges part of their essence into something. This is a tool for RCR as well as spreading the religion of you god. An infused person gets a plus to RCR (see below), but is also assumed to be a spiritual leader in the faith of your god. Using a divine infusion on land will likewise give you or your chosen followers a bonus on said land, but will also essentially make that designated area a temple to your deity. There is no limit on what you can or cannot use a divine infusion on, but you can only have a certain number of divine infusions depending on your divine status (see table).
- Break the Chains: You can walk and influence the Mortal Plane regardless of your Divine Rank. This uses up one of your allotted infusions.
-Cosmic Decree: Cosmic Decree is a special type of divine infusion with special rules, but use of a Cosmic Decree uses up one of your allotted infusions. Cosmic Decree allows the gods to say something about the universe, and have it be true. These things are the things about Reality that just ARE. You can use Cosmic Decree to say that all Teleportation, no matter what source, touches upon a certain plane, even if only for a split second. You could decree that all living things have immortal souls. You could say what happens after death, perhaps there is an afterlife, or maybe death is truly the end, and nothing exists afterwards for mortal beings. You can decide that gravity doesn't exist or that it works in reverse. You may decide that Karma is an actual thing and that the universe truly does reward the good and punish the wicked as a simple FACT. Other gods MAY NOT challenge your cosmic decree, unless they make a decree themselves, BUT ANY god may allow their creations to escape a specific Cosmic Decree by using a Scourge/Boon action. A god may rescind a Cosmic Decree they announced at any time for free.
7 AP Actions
Beget Seeker: A seeker is a hero of the highest order, thought of as being capable of extensive questing without the guidance of a deity. Unlike the previous two ranks of the heroic mortals, a seeker may actually challenge a god to combat. A mortal must have had status as a hero or Leader for at least a week before they are eligible to be promoted to a seeker for the difference in AP, and must have had at least three posts featuring them as a major character.
-Forge Monument: Monuments are truly wondrous things, objects that the God's themselves find hard to control. A monument is similar to a relic in that it can do almost anything, however, monuments are colossal things, with so much power than they cannot be contained by a single god. Making a monument uses up one of your allotted infusions. A Monument can take almost any form, from enormous otherworldly forges that churn out monstrous siege engines, to a prison meant to contain an entire race of demons. Monuments cannot be moved, and are nearly impossible to destroy. Monuments cannot be ships or vessels, monuments are stationary objects that the god must protect, they cannot protect themselves! A God can claim a monument for his/her own in a couple of ways. 1) it's presented to him by another God. 2) He engages in battle (Combat or OoC predetermined) for it. 3) Since monuments are stable and unmoving, the creator of a monument may not always be around; a god may master an abandoned or unprotected momentum for 6 AP. Another god may "counter", with 7 AP to remaster, and so on. God's may not modify or Rend Monuments. Many players like to forgo RCR bonuses to make Monuments that reduce the cost of certain actions; if so an appropriate guideline is that a Monuments can reduce the cost of 2 specific actions by 2, or one specific action by 3. Because they are so powerful monuments cannot exist on the material plane, their energies simply don’t allow them to be constructed. Monuments only grant their bonuses if your god does battle or uses the AP action on the same plane as the Monument.
12 AP Actions
Create Legend: A legend is capable of everything that the previous ranks of heroic mortals are capable of, plus a legend accumulates 1 AP every rollover. A legend may join a alliance, but may not join a pantheon. A mortal must have had status as a seeker for at least a week before they are eligible to be promoted to a legend for the difference in AP, and must have had at least three posts featuring them as a major character. Once does not simply become a legend. As with previous levels, you need only spend the difference in AP from the last level to create a legend. A Legend is a mortal hero who has gone beyond the limits of mortality. They are truly unforgettable beings, who, even if they die, will live on forever in stories, not only on the mortal world, but throughout the universe.
Variable AP Actions
-Create Life:
Life is defined here as anything animate that can act of its own, or a god's will. Humans, Golems, and Undead, all fall under this category.
- Mundane Life 1 AP: You create non-Sentient Animals (bugs, germs, gerbils) (you may use this action for free any amount of times when you use a create land action or an alter land action.)
- Monstrous life 1 AP: non-sentient monsters Giant Spiders, Dire Animals, Purple Worms, or hell, Dinosaurs. You can't use an alter land action/create land action and make monstrous life. So while you can use alter land to make a land full of honey and bees without a mundane life action, you can't make Jurassic park with dinosaurs with just an alter or create land action.
- Sentient Life 2AP: Of any type of life that is roughly equal to a human sapience. Sentient Life does not have a bonus for combat, but they have the ability to use any mundane concepts unlike monstrous life
- Fabled life 5AP: such as Dragons, Greater Demons, Giants, Vampires, Fey, Powerful Angels, Titans, or other blatantly supernatural and extremely powerful beings.
-Create Concept:
You may grant any race or organization you control any concept you create or Alchemize. If you want to give your creations a concept that was created by another deity, or use another concept to Alchemize with your own, you must engage that deity in combat.
-Mundane 1AP:Non-military Concepts that would have been easily found in ancient rome or greece. Blacksmithing, Literature, Sculpture, and Architecture are examples of Mundane Concepts. A Sentient Race means that they are able to produce their own shelter. Whether that be crude huts, caves, or tents. Societies would get slightly better quality buildings. Wooden houses, fences, the rare and crude stone fort. Architecture as a Concept would allow for more exotic buildings. Stone Castles, Pyramids, and others. Think of Architecture as a concept representing a society's signature building designs. Aztec, British, Gothic, those are all kinds of architecture found in the real world. (Given that the setting already has many concepts created, a Mundane concept action can be used to thematically make a specific culture/race/society/organization the best at that specific mundane concept, or make that concept thematically very important to that culture/race/society/organization. Also a mundane concept action can be used to REMOVE a specific mundane concept from the minds of a specific culture/race/society/organization)
- Advanced 2AP : Advanced concepts are technological marvels that revolutionize the way a society works. Things such as engineering, Gunpowder, Steam Power, and Plumbing, are Advanced Concepts. Military concepts such as armies, sword fighting, martial arts, dueling, archery, discipline would be advanced concepts. Any Society created can have a military if the creator wishes. Whether this is more like a militia, or the society is more like vikings in that the "warrior" is the default job. Advanced concepts for armies would represent structuring and training beyond giving your capable men and women a spear and leather jerkin. Steam Punk no matter how advanced would always be advanced not magical - so have fun with your dirigibles (Same goes for each other punk variant, such as clockpunk, biopunk, cowpunk. EXCEPT for cyber punk - that will be a legendary concept – all Sci Fi is a legendary concept). (Given that the setting already has many concepts created, an advanced concept action can be used to thematically make a specific culture/race/society/organization the best at that specific advanced concept, or make that concept thematically very important to that culture/race/society/organization. Also an advanced concept action can be used to REMOVE a specific mundane concept from the minds of a specific culture/race/society/organization)
- Magical 3 AP: Magical Concepts are ways of using power that allow the wielder to accomplish great things. Pyromancy, Necromancy, Abjuration, Healing these are all Magical concepts. So, think of Legendary Concepts as the broadest sense of magic, and Magical Concepts are focused schools of it. Super advanced materials are also magical concepts, if your race works with Adamantium, Octiron, or Orichalcum, then it will be a magical concept not an advanced concept. Remember a Magical concept CANNOT make magic, it can only make a school of magic - use Legendary concept action to make a system of magic. You CANNOT make a school of magic without a system of magic already existing.
-Legendary 5 AP: Like Magical Concepts, Legendary Concepts are far from mundane. However, unlike Magical Concepts, Legendary Concepts are more than ways to use power. They are power itself. Arcane Magic, or Divine Magic, Immortal Souls, Afterlife are examples of Legendary Concepts. These are ideas with such scope that they could be used to do almost anything. (This includes all science fiction) Remember a Magical concept CANNOT make magic, it can only make a school of magic - use Legendary concept action to make a system of magic. You CANNOT make a school of magic without a system of magic already existing.
Random Conflict Resolution
Spoiler
RCR (or "random conflict resolution) is a direct clash between two gods or people. Players may want to first negotiate any issues that arise before deciding that they want to resort to random conflict resolution. That being said, some people find RCR to be a fun way of resolving conflicts and playing the game, and using RCR is not discouraged.
The winner of a conflict is thought to have won whatever was at stake in the conflict before the dice were rolled. These stakes (that must have been talked about beforehand) may include things like imprisoning another god, a territorial dispute if the conflict was between societies, or leadership of a pantheon if the challenge was made.
There are four basic types of conflicts: deity vs deity, society versus society, mortal versus mortal, and deity vs. mortals.
Every divine rank has a number of d6s that they get to roll in RCR. This roll gets a number of bonuses based on other factors. Fighting alongside a hero grants a +1 bonus, fighting alongside a seeker grants a +2 bonus and fighting along a Legend grants a +3 bonus. Any infusion is worth an additional +3 bonus. Each artifact involved in the battle would grant a +1 Bonus, each Relic would grant a +2 Bonus, and monuments grant you +3 bonus (but only if you are on the same plane as they are). Fighting alongside a god in your alliance would grant +2. If fighting alongside another god, gods may add the sum of their rolls. For RCR purposes, a legend is treated as a fledgling deity and has a 1d6 roll in combat.
When societies clash, each society rolls 1d10. If in a war, two societies decide to team up, then they may add their rolls. An order is rolls 1d8 when they decide to get involved in a war and that can be added to the society roll when an order takes a side in a war between societies. Likewise to clashing gods, Fighting alongside a hero grants a +1 bonus, fighting alongside a seeker grants a +2 bonus and fighting along a Legend grants a +3 bonus. Any infusion is worth an additional +3 bonus. Each artifact involved in the battle would grant a +1 Bonus. Being fabled life grants a society +1, Advanced concepts grant +1 and magical concepts grant +2 Bonus, legendary concepts grant +3 bonus. Combat between individual mortals plays similarly to battles between societies.
Gods are advised to take action to mortals through AP, but sometimes a battle against mortals is unavoidable. When this happens, the same combat modifiers above are used, and the outcome is, similarly, whatever was at stake. Heroic mortals, societies, orders, and deities generally function the same way when it comes to RCR.
Divine Rank
Rank Name
Weekly AP
Infusions
Required Domains
RCR Dice
Fledgling Deity
4
1
2
1d6
Lesser Deity
5
2
4
2d6
Intermediate Deity
6
3
6
3d6
Greater Deity
7
4
8
4d6
Elder Deity
9
7
12
6d6
Shards
Often in this game, a God splits themselves into multiple parts. As a limit you may only have shards equal to your divine rank plus one. So a Fledgling God may only have 2 shards, and so on.
Character Creation
Unlike other games there is only 1 Mod in this game, so you only need 1 Approval. Well saying that, I want the group assembled to self-evaluate; critique the other entries, don’t be gentle, everyone here can handle it. I will hold of approving any god, until at least some of the other players weighed in on that entry. My critiques will not be gentle, so prepare yourself: my only hardline rule is: Stick to accepted D&D Domains! But you can be as creative as you want with your portfolios.
The First 8 Approved Gods will be the original gods, all other gods will the offspring of another god. Please use the OoC thread to discuss who wants to be an original god or an offspring of another god.
Character Sheet
Spoiler
Name: Name, optional epithet Played By: Your username Alignment: Standard Dungeons and Dragons later editions alignment Domains: Domains (Portfolio), Domain (Portfolio) Description: A description of your god. Goals: What you hope to do/accomplish with your god (mainly optional) Optional Picture:
Domains and Portfolios
There tends to always be a bit of confusion about domains vs portfolios, so I am going to address that. On your deity, they should be phrased Domain (Portfolio). Domains and portfolios represent elements that your deity governs; what you are the god of. They should generally be one or two words, and clear aspects. The difference between domain and portfolio is that domain is broader. You are god of everything within a domain, but partial to the part inside your portfolio. For example, a god with Water (Oceans) has powers that extend to all water, but especially so in oceans. The main reason we do this is for flavor. No two gods may have the same portfolio, but two gods may have the same domain. You may use the portfolios from dead gods.
Advice
Spoiler
Like on any other game on the playground, you should respect your fellow players. A lot of times, in the heat of roleplay, we draw a line between advancing the game and thinking about the other players. It is that reason why I would like to just officially say that players should not play other's characters for them, do anything that would stop another player from playing the game the way that they want, and that communication is key.
New players, it is easy to make a god who creates a proverbial and often literal "island" of stuff, and expects the other gods to come and interact with them. This will probably not produce an interesting and fun game experience for you or anyone else, however interesting your island might be. Branch out! Do a god who challenges, engages, and interacts with other players through both divinity and societies.
I encourage a fluff-heavy style of play, and am known to say things like "fluff over crunch". I encourage you to play off of what other players do and not against them. Apparently a post of mine went Viral, and I like it so:
Quote:
I think the problem is that people treat curse wars like this:
1 AP: Make super healing plants.
2 AP: Kill all super healing plants.
3 AP: Recreate super healing plants.
4 AP: Kill all super healing plants.
5 AP: Recreate super healing plants.
When it should be treated like this:
1 AP: Make super healing plants.
2 AP: Super healing plants are struck with a disease like real world plants and large cluster of them die because of lack of genetic diversity, now they only exists but far spread out, rarer and never in large clumps.
3 AP: Super healing plants emit an aura that make them easy to find.
4 AP: Plant poisonous plants around the world that emit the same aura, look the same and kill instantly, so a person looking for these plants will have to journey towards them but will never know if they will die or survive at the end of the journey.
5 AP: Create spirit guides that aren't an actual species but a manifestation of that super healing plant's benevolence, and like the will o' wisps in "Brave" they lead people away from the poisonous plants.
And remember that if you are unsure of anything, checking with a mod should clear it up. Above all else, have fun with the game! Rules are meant to be broken, except of course when they aren't.
Suggestions so far:
Obviously clean up the rules which have references to rules that don't exist anymore.
Only have one infusion ever.
For the cost reduction mechanics - declare that 1 will be the minimum
For the cost reduction mechanics - declare that reducing the cost of gain domain is banned.
For the cost reduction mechanics - declare that once something is reduced it can't be reduced again by ANY player.
Double or Triple cost of Break Chains - so only players later in the game will be able to use it
Eh, I'm iffy on the "one infusion ever" thing. Yes, we have too many, but if people want to interact with the world, they're just going to immediately burn it on a Break the Chains action. You said it yourself; it's easy to make an island filled with all sorts of goodies, but you can't expect others to visit you.
I'd make it so that Break the Chains actions can't be done until a higher level or something if you want the gods to emphasize their planes.
If you do limit infusions, I'd grandfather in that pre-existing Gods can have 1 last infusion (if they haven't used them all) so that any plans they had aren't totally screwed.
Perhaps it would be simplest to limit infusions gained to "one at intermediate, one at greater, and one at elder." That way you don't have low-ranking gods spamming world-changing abilities, but you still get a handful of powerful abilities for powerful gods.
__________________
Spoiler
We now go to Preaplanes with the dungeon crawl deal. Prea?
I'M FIGHTIN' TARRASQUE!
Sounds rough, Prea, do you have a caster?
HAD ONE!
Where is it now?
IN A FORCECAGE TWO DAYS AWAY!
Is there anything we can do for you?
BRING ME SOME SCROLLS!
What kind?
MIRACLE!
Preaplanes nothing in this thread will be applied to the current game - this rule building will be used to improve the next LoC
Ah, then everything I said, EXCEPT grandfathering.
I also wrote a suggestion earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preaplanes
Maybe instead of this optimization-type system, we could do a choice based one.
At Fledgling, Intermediate, and Elder, choose one of three different bonuses. Each bonus is fairly specific, but allowed to be customized to your deity's nature, and generally do the same thing.
Fledgling would affect how your deity interacts with the world, giving bonuses to creating/changing/interacting with races or establishing lands or developing a few technologies.
Intermediate would be the tier where you're offered the ability to remove some of your god's limiters. Maybe the ability to split into three parts and RP from each spot, or if Gods' true images burn their followers' eyes out like an Angel from Supernatural, they no longer do so, or if their power would make their presence obvious and stealth against other gods impossible, making it so that they can't be detected.
Elder would be the big world-changers. Decrees, Monuments, and some other third thing.
Just a thought.
For the third thing in Tier 3, Shrines, perhaps? Not sure how they'd work, but it would be more based around mortals being blessed for worshiping your deity. Perhaps as a buff that fits your god's theme, or a ward that protects your subjects from opposing forces and ideals.
A Time god's subjects may become immortal, or a City god may make it so that nature can never reclaim the land nearby.
I've also noticed the Cosmic Decree action can be a little... much. With one decree, you can mess with another god's entire theme. A Nature god saying that Nature always wins in the end would really rustle a City god's jimmies, or an Eternity god would be hosed by a decree that all things come to an end (right, Arc? )
The Cosmic Decree should be more limited in scope to what and whom it can affect. Yes, it adds a universal law, but those laws are just too powerful and have too much potential to screw other players.
__________________
Spoiler
We now go to Preaplanes with the dungeon crawl deal. Prea?
I'M FIGHTIN' TARRASQUE!
Sounds rough, Prea, do you have a caster?
HAD ONE!
Where is it now?
IN A FORCECAGE TWO DAYS AWAY!
Is there anything we can do for you?
BRING ME SOME SCROLLS!
What kind?
MIRACLE!
Also, as a clarity thing, it might be a good idea to clear up create life and create concepts - specifically that they all count as different actions for the purposes of reducing AP.
Now just throwing stuff at the wall, to see if it sticks:
- All AP reducing actions should be discussed OOC, and should be encouraged to have thematic limitations. For example, you might make a forge that reduces Artifacts and Relics by -2 each, but it will only work on military relics and artifacts, as its a forge, not an artisan's workshop (which might do the opposite). Or a bag of wonders, that reduces the cost of advanced concepts by 1, but only if they are a physical object that can be produced from the bag (or very closely linked to one), so: Archery - fine, produce a bow; explosives - fine, pull out a bomb; discipline - nope; warships - nope (won't come out of a bag). Then those limitations should have to be approved OOC, and could thereby balance more powerful reductions (like advanced concepts).
- Reduce Infusions to 1 or 2, but then add extra uses for them, improve the less powerful uses and/or make more central the power of monuments (i.e. special abilities rather than just generic RCR bonuses/cost reduction) - they should be the sort of places that the main plot of the world hinges around, not just the tools of the gods. The combination of this should then leave players split between choosing what to do with them, giving a different feel to different gods.
- Add an extra tier to the society/order chain, and make them all more expensive. For example:
Form Society (2AP) Creates a culture who self identify as similar, compared with outsiders, but are not united or organised.
Establish Nation (3/4 AP) Creates a country who are organised, with a government, army, legal system etc.
Found Order (5AP) Creates an elite group, dedicated to some goal or common cause.
I don't see the value of AP-reducing actions. They seem to me to encourage the gaming of the system. Also, if the point of AP is to control the growth of the world's variety then the introduction of relics and monuments play havoc with that control. I do like Betrayer's idea though, so maybe an insistence of strong thematic limitations; so if you spend 5 AP on a relic you're only likely to be able to find 5 places to immediately use it, for example.
I also like Betrayer's four tier society AP but if you're increasing the costs of orders then I'd also add:
Create Group (1 AP): Create a thematic group that are important to a given society or nation. This action can performed for free three times with a Form Society action and an unlimited amount of times with an Establish Nation action.
If we're making it so that a character gets barred from the Prime Material for a significant time upon reaching Intermediate, I'd suggest adding a few default Planes to start off so that people have a vested interest in a plane that isn't theirs. That way it encourages interaction.
We could simply use some major D&D planes (Elysium, Mechanus, Limbo, Astral, Outlands, and Hades would be swell IMO, maybe add Celestia, Baator, Arborea, and the Abyss if we feel the extreme alignments need a place to hang).
Doing this we could have characters with the motivation to be the Lord of Hell, or the benevolent guardian of Heaven, or the Great Balancer, or something along those lines.
These would be the big planes, the ones people would fight over, immune to Alter Land actions and the like, though Monuments would be able to be built on them so long as they fit within the plane's alignment (I doubt a hellforge would do well in Elysium).
__________________
Spoiler
We now go to Preaplanes with the dungeon crawl deal. Prea?
I'M FIGHTIN' TARRASQUE!
Sounds rough, Prea, do you have a caster?
HAD ONE!
Where is it now?
IN A FORCECAGE TWO DAYS AWAY!
Is there anything we can do for you?
BRING ME SOME SCROLLS!
What kind?
MIRACLE!
BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.
I always wanted to encourage more Plane building.
AP reductions didn't always exist in this game - but they were added to make artifacts/relics DO STUFF that wasn't combat.
That said I really like the increasing society stuff. that way a god makes a race - makes a primitive society first and then slowly builds upon that.
Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?
I played great Lords of Creation game on other forum, based on original rules. And I'll talk fro mthat, as I have one suggestion, pardon me if that was cleared up with the errata or later rules additions:
Ban creating artifacts or any other forms of creation that would globally change the rules of gameplay for other players or at least make suggestion in rules to don't do that. What I meant is that in our game we had one guy create artifact that make it harder for everybody to advance to higher ranks. It caused @#$%storm that ended with gamemaster declaring that from that point every single artifact had to be pended earlier and wait seven days without any obijection from other players.
The general Idea is that ALL artifact must be vetted first - but in practice no one follows that. Your suggestion that instead of the GM making that decision and that the artifact must be posted OoC first and not objected to in X amount of days is a good one.
BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.
I always wanted to encourage more Plane building.
AP reductions didn't always exist in this game - but they were added to make artifacts/relics DO STUFF that wasn't combat.
That said I really like the increasing society stuff. that way a god makes a race - makes a primitive society first and then slowly builds upon that.
Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?
The problem I've noticed, though, is that we've got all sorts of nice planes... but nobody to give a damn about any they didn't make themselves. Nobody has any motivation to interact with another god's plane.
__________________
Spoiler
We now go to Preaplanes with the dungeon crawl deal. Prea?
I'M FIGHTIN' TARRASQUE!
Sounds rough, Prea, do you have a caster?
HAD ONE!
Where is it now?
IN A FORCECAGE TWO DAYS AWAY!
Is there anything we can do for you?
BRING ME SOME SCROLLS!
What kind?
MIRACLE!
True. How bout a clarification in the rules that you can do whatever you want in another god's plane - just not in a gods sanctum. Then also limit sanctums to non-material planes - forcing people to use the nexus action on the material plane. Then change the rule for the nexus action by giving gods some sort of privilege on their nexus but make it a requirement to have a sanctum first.
------
Also some other things on my mind. People have a tendency to make intelligent life - before PLANTS, SUN, WARMTH, ATMOSPHERE, or even LAND.
Any way to make a logical limitation on that?
------
Additionally as has been brought up - the RCR system needs alot of work. even though it should be the last resort- it should make a lot more sense power wise. Any advice there?
Maybe for reductions, not a straight out ban but costs an additional # of AP reduced by other things so far AP to make (for example, if someone makes a relic giving -1 to create magical concept and a monument that gives -2, the monument would cost 8 AP, and if someone else wants to make a relic, then it'd cost 7 AP for -1 to Create Magical Concept).
I dislike the idea of only one infusion ever, maybe 1/2 divine rank rounded up so fledgling and lesser have 1, intermediate and greater have 2, while Elder has 3 (or round down so you have to be lesser to make an infusion).
maybe making it so only half (rounded down, minimum of 1) of your infusions can be for Break the Chains/Relics/Monuments while the other half have to be for Divine Infusion.
I'd support bumping Break the Chains and Cosmic Decree up to 7 AP, maybe more for Cosmic Decree.
A question for Domains and Portfolios, can you have the same portfolio from a different domain, for example, on deity having the Domain War (Conquest) and another Domination (Conquest)? Would that be allowed under the rules? If not, should it be allowed? I think it should to a point, for example, someone with the domain Baator (Creatures), and another with Plant (Creatures) should be allowed because plant creatures are completely different from Devils.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
Friends don't let friends use 3rd-party sourcebooks. This is why.
The Problem with 1 AP action per post is going to lead to a lot of Large posts broken up into many smaller ones.
So Essentially doing nothing, and if something like that ends up happening, it would be a LoC that I would not want to play.
Thoughts on other things:
Relics/Monuments:
Alright, Herin is where the point lies; I liked the Abilities of LoC rule set 2, Which gave a reason WHY they where able to make stuff like that, at a lesser cost.
Relics/Monuments to me, are a Waste of AP, Unless used for combat, they may be a part of LoC, but...They seem like something you would expect MORTALs to create for a god, not a god create for themselves.
Just some thoughts.
__________________
Creepy awesomesauce Axolotl By Crimmy.
Former Avatars:
Spoiler
Cekia: Kymme:
Serpintine:
Dagon by Smuchmuch
[IMG]
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad15/smuchmuch/avis/others/dagon.png[/IMG]
I also really liked the abilities of the rule set 2: and I worked pretty hard on coming up with them. I don't know why people decided to not have them anymore: although I would love to bring them back - maybe replace monuments with them. I would add that no two gods may have the same ability?
Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?
Strongly encouraging I'd be fine with, but I wouldn't want to ban more than one action per post because sometimes a god may want to do more that one thing at the exact same time e.g. if I wanted Orcs and Elves to both be the first intelligent creatures in the world then changing the rule would make that impossible since I would have to do one after the other.
Quote:
Also some other things on my mind. People have a tendency to make intelligent life - before PLANTS, SUN, WARMTH, ATMOSPHERE, or even LAND.
Any way to make a logical limitation on that?
I think the mod just has to remind people not to do it when posting the IC thread.
BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.
For starters, you could start encouraging that by stripping the game of D&D influences. The first thing a player looks at when they start playing an RPG is the character sheet. Now, when they're asked to assign their character a D&D-style alignment and Domains, it's far too easy to fall into the mindset of D&D.
I also really liked the abilities of the rule set 2: and I worked pretty hard on coming up with them. I don't know why people decided to not have them anymore: although I would love to bring them back - maybe replace monuments with them. I would add that no two gods may have the same ability?
..That would lead to Fights, big time.
Because, What if you have two gods, one Elemental, One Dragon (Inferndyim and Rweird's god) And they both want Elemental (Fire) Ability?
I can understand if only thematic appropriate stuff was allowed, but where do you draw the line at?
__________________
Creepy awesomesauce Axolotl By Crimmy.
Former Avatars:
Spoiler
Cekia: Kymme:
Serpintine:
Dagon by Smuchmuch
[IMG]
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad15/smuchmuch/avis/others/dagon.png[/IMG]
The original system - before even the the original rule set! was that you have to spend 2 AP per sphere - and a sphere was just an area of influence. And then you can spend 3 AP per domain for each 2 spheres you have. making it cost 7 AP per domain. At the same time that means you can exclusively spend AP to power up and nothing else.
For starters, you could start encouraging that by stripping the game of D&D influences. The first thing a player looks at when they start playing an RPG is the character sheet. Now, when they're asked to assign their character a D&D-style alignment and Domains, it's far too easy to fall into the mindset of D&D.
You're posting on a heavily D&D themed board, with the world's most popular D&D based comic at the center, with D&D enthusiasts everywhere.
I really doubt you can remove that influence so easily.
Maybe you could insist that Gods never call their attacks OOTS-style, at least not by D&D names, but mortals do.
__________________
Spoiler
We now go to Preaplanes with the dungeon crawl deal. Prea?
I'M FIGHTIN' TARRASQUE!
Sounds rough, Prea, do you have a caster?
HAD ONE!
Where is it now?
IN A FORCECAGE TWO DAYS AWAY!
Is there anything we can do for you?
BRING ME SOME SCROLLS!
What kind?
MIRACLE!
Maybe you could insist that Gods never call their attacks OOTS-style, at least not by D&D names, but mortals do.
Outside you - I don't think a player ever had a god or a mortal call out their attacks. It's usually been described - either beautifully or terribly.
Anyway - to make this rule fixing more ordered and structured.
Start your post with a suggestion - and number it. (Right now were at 6 - look at the OP)
Then name a previous number and your thoughts on it?
That way we have concrete suggestions instead of random ideas?
(Also FYI, I'm not in charge of this - this is a group effort where all opinions are equal - so if you guys think one my suggestions is bad, it probably won't win, and if I think something is bad but no one else does then in it goes)
7. My preference for modifying relics (and I do think they should be kept) would be that they should be greatly limited in scope; rather than making it cheaper to create concepts it should be cheaper to produce concepts related to e.g. fashion. I don't think exclusivity or free-prevention are good; they're patches rather than something we want.
Last edited by Emperor Demonking : 05-15-2013 at 02:54 PM.
Disclaimer: I've never played LOC, so this is pure game design theory rather than experience talking.
If you want to get people to be interested in eachothers' planes, make it so some benefit is derived from interacting with them. Have a plane provide some benefit to its creator AND anyone who visits there. Require some interacts with the mortal world to require magical sites that must be created within a plane - you don't just look down on the world, you use a scrying pool; its expensive to make, so you either make your own or use a friend's. Perhaps you can always look down at the present, but to see an individual's future you need the pool (and by see, I mean 'write into fate' and create a destiny for).
Have it be so you can make an alliance between deities such that they all draw certain persistent benefits from eachothers' planes, so if one comes under attack everyone in the alliance will move to defend. Have it be so that things in the various planes can be imported to the mortal world to act in a god's stead - if there are useful creatures, a god may decide to go hunting on the plane created by another deity in order to steal, tame, and employ those creatures. Since its a whole plane, its probably not something that can be actively policed in a way that would block a determined god all the time, and it should be encouraged to be 'full of holes' like that unless the owner actively spends points to seal it that week.
Disclaimer: I've never played LOC, so this is pure game design theory rather than experience talking.
8.
If you want to get people to be interested in eachothers' planes, make it so some benefit is derived from interacting with them. Have a plane provide some benefit to its creator AND anyone who visits there. Require some interacts with the mortal world to require magical sites that must be created within a plane - you don't just look down on the world, you use a scrying pool; its expensive to make, so you either make your own or use a friend's. Perhaps you can always look down at the present, but to see an individual's future you need the pool (and by see, I mean 'write into fate' and create a destiny for).
Have it be so you can make an alliance between deities such that they all draw certain persistent benefits from eachothers' planes, so if one comes under attack everyone in the alliance will move to defend. Have it be so that things in the various planes can be imported to the mortal world to act in a god's stead - if there are useful creatures, a god may decide to go hunting on the plane created by another deity in order to steal, tame, and employ those creatures. Since its a whole plane, its probably not something that can be actively policed in a way that would block a determined god all the time, and it should be encouraged to be 'full of holes' like that unless the owner actively spends points to seal it that week.
9. Begin doing 8 By Perhaps making it that you can only gain Ap reductions on your Own plane?
Also, this is a double edged sword, where every deity has their own special planes, and no one does anything on anyone else's.
__________________
Creepy awesomesauce Axolotl By Crimmy.
Former Avatars:
Spoiler
Cekia: Kymme:
Serpintine:
Dagon by Smuchmuch
[IMG]
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad15/smuchmuch/avis/others/dagon.png[/IMG]
I don't think encouraging interplanar warfare is a good thing - instead I think the ideal would be that players create interesting planes - a gods make homes on those planes since - well they are so much better than the material world.
Only very specific nature/mortal gods should care about the material world at all - outside some gods acting INDIRECTLY to protect a favored race/hero. Hell even for tech and magic gods - would make more sense to live on other planes - and only INDIRECTLY spread their tech/magic to the material plane.
Basically - my ideal - is a lot more INDIRECT activities.
Instead of a god controlling a city the god makes heroes and a church to run the city.
Instead of the god punishing a heretic the god makes a monster (dragon/titan) to attack the heretic.
RSS Feeds: 
LOC (Lords of Creation) rule building
)
Kymme:
