3.5 Need Feat, Took 2 Levels of Fighter Already

[Man on Fire]

In one of Forum games I'm playing Orc Frenzied Berserker (barbarian 3/Fighter 2/ Tribal Protector 2/Frenzied Berserker 1 to be specific). I became worried about obvious flaws of FB - going against the party and launching into frenzy after failed will save. I was thinking of taking steadfeast determination from tome of battle, but for that I need Endurance. I already took 2 levels of fighter for bonus feats to become FB in the first place. Now the simplest solution I see is too pick up 2 next levels of Fighter, taking Endurance on next level and SD as bonus feat on yet another. But I tought - could there be quicker way? Is there a class that could give me SD as bonus feat with taking only one level?

[Answerer]

Psychic Warrior gets a Bonus Feat on each of 1st and 2nd, which can be either be Fighter Bonus Feats or [Psionic] Feats. Can also net you expansion, and maybe vigor, which would be nice for your character. Practiced Manifester might be a worthwhile investment if you do take vigor.

[Darrin]

Could you possibly convince your DM that you were playing a Desert Orc (from Unearthed Arcana p. 13), and thus had Endurance as a racial bonus feat all this time? (Frostblood Orcs from Dragon Magic also get Endurance as a bonus feat.)

If he says no, then pay for a polymorph any object (CL 15 x 80 GP = 1200 GP) into a Desert/Frostblood Orc, and you could pick it up that way... permanent duration, although it would be dispellable.

[gallagher]

Dont even worry about blowing that will save. You are a high enough level that your party wizard or cleric should have a spell or two prepared for such the occasion without wasting any party resources or taxing your build.

[Anxe]

Originally Posted by Darrin

Could you possibly convince your DM that you were playing a Desert Orc (from Unearthed Arcana p. 13), and thus had Endurance as a racial bonus feat all this time? (Frostblood Orcs from Dragon Magic also get Endurance as a bonus feat.)

If he says no, then pay for a polymorph any object (CL 15 x 80 GP = 1200 GP) into a Desert/Frostblood Orc, and you could pick it up that way... permanent duration, although it would be dispellable.

Pretty sure that PaO doesn't grant feats.

[Malroth]

1 level dip of martial variant conjuration specalist wizard and replace your familliar with abrupt jaunt.

[nedz]

Originally Posted by Malroth

1 level dip of martial variant conjuration specialist wizard and replace your familiar with abrupt jaunt.

A one level dip in Wizard and take the Combat Wizard ACF from UA. This swaps your scribe scroll for a fighter feat. This allows you to keep your familiar, which is obviously OP , besides Barbarians and Literacy.

A one level dip in Feat Rogue.

Three levels of Ranger.

[ThiagoMartell]

Originally Posted by nedz

A one level dip in Wizard and take the Combat Wizard ACF from UA. This swaps your scribe scroll for a fighter feat.

But that's what he suggested.

[Heliomance]

Originally Posted by Anxe

Pretty sure that PaO doesn't grant feats.

If it's a racial bonus feat, then it's part and parcel of being that race, so PAO will grant it.

[Twilightwyrm]

You know, if you are using Tome of Battle, throwing in a level or two of Warblade in order to get Iron Heart Surge would solve your potential "attacking party" problems right there, since rage is technically a condition. Not sure whether it would instantly cure the fatigue or not...

[Anxe]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

If it's a racial bonus feat, then it's part and parcel of being that race, so PAO will grant it.

Wouldn't it count as an extraordinary quality in this case, and therefore not be granted?

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Anxe

Wouldn't it count as an extraordinary quality in this case, and therefore not be granted?

Polymorph any object is based on polymorph, which is based on alter self. Per the PHB entry for alter self:

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth)."

Although polymorph has probably had more errata than any other thing in 3.x, it hasn't changed the basic text in alter self.

So, by RAW, if you use PaO to turn into a desert orc or frostblood orc, you get Endurance as a racial bonus feat. Since you are the same size, same type, same material, etc., the duration = permanent. This means it can be dispelled, which may be something of an inconvenience, but you can just pay 1200 GP to have it cast on you again.

[Shpadoinkle]

I've heard a wand of Grease being suggested to remedy this problem. Once the monsters are dead, the party caster throws down a Grease spell at the FB's feet. Because he can't make a Balance check (no Dex-based skill use allowed while frenzying if you're using the CW update for the class, and the MotW FB can't use skills that require "patience or concentration," and I think Balance would probably qualify) he is completely invalidated until the frenzy ends.

The biggest downside to this is the fact that your enemies can use it against you as well.

[nedz]

Grease is good, unless he can fly.

[ericgrau]

I wouldn't dip something without full BAB like psychic warrior unless it gives significant additional benefits. Unless you're making a will save every round or you have a ridiculous constitution your offense will go down more than your defense goes up, foes will die slower and then they'll hurt you more anyway. So either full BAB or something that is also very dippable for other reasons.

Since endurance is hard to get another option would be to look into your future feat plans and find ways to get those instead. It won't help now but it will free up a feat in the long run for your endurance.

Originally Posted by Shpadoinkle

Because he can't make a Balance check (no Dex-based skill use allowed while frenzying if you're using the CW update for the class, and the MotW FB can't use skills that require "patience or concentration," and I think Balance would probably qualify) he is completely invalidated slightly inconvenienced until the frenzy ends.

FTFY. A FB could just fight prone or if nothing is in melee with him then crawl out of the grease instead. I wonder why people keep throwing in the towel every time they fail their save or check on a debuff. The penalty to attacks is barely higher than his frenzy bonus. A wand might work with several charges and trading actions if you have a long open stretch of dungeon to kite with.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Generic Warrior, assuming your DM OKs it, nets you any feat you want.

[Shpadoinkle]

Originally Posted by ericgrau

FTFY. A FB could just fight prone or if nothing is in melee with him then crawl out of the grease instead.

Since the spell description doesn't say anything about crawling, I'm going to have to ask where you read that one could crawl out of a grease spell's area.

[ericgrau]

The combat rules. Move action, 5 feet, provokes. Also the it's-friggin'-grease-not-hold-monster-not-web. It's just a debuff, and not even an incredible one at that.

[Anxe]

Originally Posted by Darrin

Polymorph any object is based on polymorph, which is based on alter self. Per the PHB entry for alter self:

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth)."

Although polymorph has probably had more errata than any other thing in 3.x, it hasn't changed the basic text in alter self.

So, by RAW, if you use PaO to turn into a desert orc or frostblood orc, you get Endurance as a racial bonus feat. Since you are the same size, same type, same material, etc., the duration = permanent. This means it can be dispelled, which may be something of an inconvenience, but you can just pay 1200 GP to have it cast on you again.

Thanks! Must've missed that in my skimming.

Originally Posted by Shpadoinkle

Since the spell description doesn't say anything about crawling, I'm going to have to ask where you read that one could crawl out of a grease spell's area.

It doesn't say anything about crawling. That's why you can crawl out...