Just a note, this doctor is a very important sentient whose life can change the balance of power in the galaxy. The Alliance's new weapon has been deployed in the last week. This planet is a well known place and is very much threatened by the lack of security. Krayt could just be coming here to secure his prize and personally move him to a different location.
Remember there was a lot of other things happening on the Wheel at the same time, from the Mandos gathering, to the Czerka Ship, to Mastigo's "stunt". The only conclusive proof you have about a possible leak was how Mastigo knew about Graff. That could easily be seen in the context of Mastigo - who has a seething hatred for Graff - sensing his presence and acting decisively to hurt him. Nothing else on the mission necessarily implies a leak of any kind.
At any rate, ICE, you have not been able to discern anything else about the box. It is an enigma.
There could be a completely reasonable answer, but I don't believe it.
Just so we're all on the same page here - everyone does realize that the whole deception and disguise plan cannot possibly work under the circumstances, right? It was a reasonable plan when we didn't have the Big Bad Boss of All the Sith arriving right behind us looking for the exact same guy we are, but not anymore.
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_______________________________________________ "When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," he was really saying, "I love you.""
Just so we're all on the same page here - everyone does realize that the whole deception and disguise plan cannot possibly work under the circumstances, right? It was a reasonable plan when we didn't have the Big Bad Boss of All the Sith arriving right behind us looking for the exact same guy we are, but not anymore.
I realise that we would need to get shooty in order to extract the scientist. Although if we acted as a forward team for Krayt, "making sure that the prison is prepared and secure for his arrival" I think it could work. If only to locate the VIPs. What does everyone else think? I'm happy with editing my previous post(s) to remove the disguises. I mainly am suggesting the ruse because I want to act like a Sith Lord.
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With Krayt coming right behind us, they'll all fight to the death rather than surrender, unless we offer to take them with us, maybe, if we offer from a position of strength.
Depending on the orbital defenses, we might just fly the Kestrel straight in, jam their communications, blow away the defenses, head down into the atmosphere, commence bombardment of AA defenses and barracks, then perform a massive ground assault, grab the VIPs, and fly everyone out to meet at a predetermined rendezvous. Think we can get it all done in five hours?
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Last edited by Thundercracker : 10-10-2012 at 10:36 PM.
Just so we're all on the same page here - everyone does realize that the whole deception and disguise plan cannot possibly work under the circumstances, right? It was a reasonable plan when we didn't have the Big Bad Boss of All the Sith arriving right behind us looking for the exact same guy we are, but not anymore.
To the contrary, this makes it better. See below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Victory
I realise that we would need to get shooty in order to extract the scientist. Although if we acted as a forward team for Krayt, "making sure that the prison is prepared and secure for his arrival" I think it could work. If only to locate the VIPs. What does everyone else think? I'm happy with editing my previous post(s) to remove the disguises. I mainly am suggesting the ruse because I want to act like a Sith Lord.
As Iron Victory said a group of Sith showing up and being like "You ****ing idiots better not have ****ed things up. We are here to make sure we don't have to murder you all before Kyrat gets here. He will be here in 5hrs and we are making sure the prisoner is still here and you haven't been infiltrated and messed things up. Be warned, if he comes all this way for nothing you are all going to die."
Hell, us knowing Kyrat is coming, knowing when, and more makes it MORE likely to be believed. Why would the Emperor personally land and walk over without some confirmation from SITH (not these lowly peons) that they still have the prisoner. I know if I was Kyrat I would go bat **** if I flew all the way there, landed, and learned I wasted my time.
I agree. The plan is better now, with those modifications. Maybe assault shortly after youre in, then you can play the, "They must be after the scientist! We will ensure he is kept safe for Krayt, You go fight off these attackers. If you fail, we will kill the scientist."
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Lord Havelock Vetinari Avatar by AlfredAmeoba.
"A sense of terrifying admiration overcame him.
He wondered what it was like in the Patrician's mind. All cold and shiny, he thought, all blued steel and icicles and little wheels clicking along like a huge clock. The kind of mind that would carefully consider its own downfall and turn it to advantage." "Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."-Terry Pratchett
With Krayt coming right behind us, they'll all fight to the death rather than surrender, unless we offer to take them with us, maybe, if we offer from a position of strength.
Depending on the orbital defenses, we might just fly the Kestrel straight in, jam their communications, blow away the defenses, head down into the atmosphere, commence bombardment of AA defenses and barracks, then perform a massive ground assault, grab the VIPs, and fly everyone out to meet at a predetermined rendezvous. Think we can get it all done in five hours?
I was thinking along those lines, yeah. Use the fighters (and possibly the shuttles as well) to clear a path through the orbital defenses and land most or all of the Stormtrooper company - with walker and LAAT support - near our planned exit where they can make a lot of noise and draw a lot of attention. Once they've made their presence felt and the prison staff have had a chance to start shifting toward them, a small team drops in by the entrance. We don't have to be quiet, we just have to be quieter than a full-scale landing and assault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major
To the contrary, this makes it better. See below
As Iron Victory said a group of Sith showing up and being like "You ****ing idiots better not have ****ed things up. We are here to make sure we don't have to murder you all before Kyrat gets here. He will be here in 5hrs and we are making sure the prisoner is still here and you haven't been infiltrated and messed things up. Be warned, if he comes all this way for nothing you are all going to die."
Hell, us knowing Kyrat is coming, knowing when, and more makes it MORE likely to be believed. Why would the Emperor personally land and walk over without some confirmation from SITH (not these lowly peons) that they still have the prisoner. I know if I was Kyrat I would go bat **** if I flew all the way there, landed, and learned I wasted my time.
That's... not a great plan. If the prison security staff are double- and triple-checking everything, they're especially going to be double- and triple-checking the identities of "Sith bigwigs" that nobody's ever heard of before. And that's if they haven't been warned about us, specifically. Which, last I checked, we were assuming they had been.
Then there's the more general problem of trying to use a small, sneaky force as a diversion for a larger, noisier force - the large, noisy force will draw the enemies' attention. That's just going to happen no matter what. (And when it does, and it's immediately obvious to everyone that the only way the large, noisy force could have reached the planet's surface was on the same ship as the newly-arrived "Sith," what do you think is going to happen to the small, sneaky force then? Assuming the guards somehow miss the curious fact that you showed up claiming to be members of Darth Krayt's inner circle, yet nobody seems to have ever heard of you.)
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_______________________________________________ "When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," he was really saying, "I love you.""
Well if we can get a holoshroud we don't have to be nobodies...disguise ourselves as specific bigwig Sith.
Edit: Either way the disguise is at least enough to cause them to second guess when shooting. Even if under attack if you turn around a corner and see a Sith you are probably going to hesitate before firing so that he doesn't murder the **** out of you for friendly fire.
There are 4 characters who could reasonably be in command and two characters that could not.
- Graff is technically the highest ranked military officer here (being two ranks above Jarik).
- Ice is the Chief Operational Scientist and this is a mission designed to liberate an important Scientist.
- Kel is an Imperial Knight - with an Apprentice - and therefore has a reasonable expectation of being in command via his prestige.
- Sairen was most likely a high ranked military officer and is now a Special Adviser (which is in of it self an ambiguous title).
The two characters that probably are not in command are the Doctor and Jarik since they are both out raked.
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There are 4 characters who could reasonably be in command and two characters that could not.
- Graff is technically the highest ranked military officer here (being two ranks above Jarik).
- Ice is the Chief Operational Scientist and this is a mission designed to liberate an important Scientist.
- Kel is an Imperial Knight - with an Apprentice - and therefore has a reasonable expectation of being in command via his prestige.
- Sairen was most likely a high ranked military officer and is now a Special Adviser (which is in of it self an ambiguous title).
The two characters that probably are not in command are the Doctor and Jarik since they are both out raked.
Well, who was in charge of the last mission? :)
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So let me get this straight: if we can get our hands on multiple copies of a device described on Wookiepedia (I'm AFB ATM) as very rare and expensive, and only having enough battery life to run for 2 minutes anyway, then your plan might not get you killed in the first six seconds. Is that about the size of it?
Even if the disguise works perfectly (for as long as it lasts), what exactly is stopping the guards from getting on the comms to verify that you are who and what you say you are? Why would the guards at a high-profile, high-security prison not check out every new arrival with a bioscanner? If it makes so much sense for Darth Krayt to send someone ahead to check things out, why wouldn't there already be someone there from the Sith doing exactly what you plan to claim you're doing?
Do you remember how we suspect we have a security leak, so that the Sith probably know we're coming? Because this is the third mission in a row where the Sith were moving to counter us before we even got our orders.
And of course, splitting the party when you don't expect a fight is one thing; doing so when you're sure you are going into a fight is something else entirely.
Anyway. I'm going to be traveling this weekend, so won't be online much until Sunday night - maybe Monday. So you guys figure out what you want to do; and if y'all decide to go ahead with this really incredibly bad plan, then I'll just watch… and mock… and laugh… when it completely predictably gets you captured and/or killed.
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_______________________________________________ "When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," he was really saying, "I love you.""
There are 4 characters who could reasonably be in command and two characters that could not.
- Graff is technically the highest ranked military officer here (being two ranks above Jarik).
- Ice is the Chief Operational Scientist and this is a mission designed to liberate an important Scientist.
- Kel is an Imperial Knight - with an Apprentice - and therefore has a reasonable expectation of being in command via his prestige.
- Sairen was most likely a high ranked military officer and is now a Special Adviser (which is in of it self an ambiguous title).
The two characters that probably are not in command are the Doctor and Jarik since they are both out raked.
Wait, Graff has an official military rank now? I missed that! (I knew he was placed in command of the fighter squadron, but didn't see that he was given the rank to go with the job - hence my description of him as not wearing any rank insignia.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercracker
Well, who was in charge of the last mission? :)
Staen - aka, the highest-ranking military officer.
Graff would certainly be an… interesting choice for command. In the "May you live in interesting times" sense of the word.
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_______________________________________________ "When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," he was really saying, "I love you.""
That reminds me. I did mean to ask if Sharka has a formal military rank. I know in RL military doctors are officers, but outside the normal chain of command, and are only in command of things medical(where they outrank everyone).
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Lord Havelock Vetinari Avatar by AlfredAmeoba.
"A sense of terrifying admiration overcame him.
He wondered what it was like in the Patrician's mind. All cold and shiny, he thought, all blued steel and icicles and little wheels clicking along like a huge clock. The kind of mind that would carefully consider its own downfall and turn it to advantage." "Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."-Terry Pratchett
So let me get this straight: if we can get our hands on multiple copies of a device described on Wookiepedia (I'm AFB ATM) as very rare and expensive, and only having enough battery life to run for 2 minutes anyway, then your plan might not get you killed in the first six seconds. Is that about the size of it?
Even if the disguise works perfectly (for as long as it lasts), what exactly is stopping the guards from getting on the comms to verify that you are who and what you say you are? Why would the guards at a high-profile, high-security prison not check out every new arrival with a bioscanner? If it makes so much sense for Darth Krayt to send someone ahead to check things out, why wouldn't there already be someone there from the Sith doing exactly what you plan to claim you're doing?
Do you remember how we suspect we have a security leak, so that the Sith probably know we're coming? Because this is the third mission in a row where the Sith were moving to counter us before we even got our orders.
And of course, splitting the party when you don't expect a fight is one thing; doing so when you're sure you are going into a fight is something else entirely.
Anyway. I'm going to be traveling this weekend, so won't be online much until Sunday night - maybe Monday. So you guys figure out what you want to do; and if y'all decide to go ahead with this really incredibly bad plan, then I'll just watch… and mock… and laugh… when it completely predictably gets you captured and/or killed.
Holoshroud, The Force Unleashed. 25,000 credits. We would need what, two? three? And it'd be useful for more than one mission.
As for the charge, not sure where the two minutes comes from. In SAGA it doesn't have a time limit and isn't powered by anything. It just lets you trigger the hologram as a swift and go with no time limit. Not sure about the rarity either. The book discusses one type "as the most common" "but not the only one on the market". Which implies that it isn't super rare if there are multiple on the market and one is big enough to be "the most common" as opposed to there only being a few.
Moving on to "if the disguise works perfectly", I will acknowledge that is indeed a problem. But at the very least it should get us TO the bioscanners and at least give us a moment where they aren't trying to attack us right away. IF they are lax out of fear of offending Sith then we get in. If they aren't then WE start the ambush while inside the prison when they don't expect it and are caught off guard.
As for "if somebody is already there", I will indeed admit to that being the biggest problem. The hope is we can get there first, but either way it is a "weigh pros and cons". If a Sith is already there and tips them off, then we are right where we are going to be anyways a big attack. Considering we are ALREADY planning on attacking I don't see how trying this changes anything. If the Sith is NOT there, then we have time to get inside, get an ambush (if it fails, and a mission success if it doesn't).
As for a security leak, trust me I KNOW. Kelaeon's been trying to make a big deal of it because "worry about where the leak is later" leaves us in a position of we don't know what is leaked. At the very least, it is his hope that it wasn't someone directly in the meeting room (thus why he said com silence, jamming, etc would be preferred just in case) so the exact plan shouldn't be a problem. Nonetheless they can't just attack everyone who shows up because it MIGHT be the E-i-E, because otherwise Kyrat might be pissed when he shows up and they shoot him. So they at least have to confirm things before gunning them down.
And as stated already in earlier posts, at the very least having the disguises at minimum causes some hesitation when the fighting breaks out because they don't want to accidentally shot at a Sith.
Plus, in regards to splitting the party that kinda increases chances. If the attack happens WHILE we are arriving or right when we are getting confirmed there is a small matter of distractions and such where they might be a bit busy to complete an entire check-up. Now then, if you want to tell a Sith "hold up we are too busy to let you do your mission because we are under attack could you just sit here and wait because we don't trust you while we deal with this attack" as a lowly peon...
Staen was the highest ranking officer but, had Rho's player been more active, he could very well have been the leader. Knights are like Jedi, where ever they go, they tend to take up leadership positions.
Graff's official rank is "Squadron Leader", which is the Flying equivalent of Major (army) or Lieutenant Commander (Navy).
Sharka can be a Lieutenant (Navy) or a Captain (Army). You can choose either. This would still put him below Graff is terms of rank but above Jarik.
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Lord Havelock Vetinari Avatar by AlfredAmeoba.
"A sense of terrifying admiration overcame him.
He wondered what it was like in the Patrician's mind. All cold and shiny, he thought, all blued steel and icicles and little wheels clicking along like a huge clock. The kind of mind that would carefully consider its own downfall and turn it to advantage." "Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."-Terry Pratchett
Holoshroud, The Force Unleashed. 25,000 credits. We would need what, two? three? And it'd be useful for more than one mission.
As for the charge, not sure where the two minutes comes from. In SAGA it doesn't have a time limit and isn't powered by anything. It just lets you trigger the hologram as a swift and go with no time limit. Not sure about the rarity either. The book discusses one type "as the most common" "but not the only one on the market". Which implies that it isn't super rare if there are multiple on the market and one is big enough to be "the most common" as opposed to there only being a few.
Moving on to "if the disguise works perfectly", I will acknowledge that is indeed a problem. But at the very least it should get us TO the bioscanners and at least give us a moment where they aren't trying to attack us right away. IF they are lax out of fear of offending Sith then we get in. If they aren't then WE start the ambush while inside the prison when they don't expect it and are caught off guard.
As for "if somebody is already there", I will indeed admit to that being the biggest problem. The hope is we can get there first, but either way it is a "weigh pros and cons". If a Sith is already there and tips them off, then we are right where we are going to be anyways a big attack. Considering we are ALREADY planning on attacking I don't see how trying this changes anything. If the Sith is NOT there, then we have time to get inside, get an ambush (if it fails, and a mission success if it doesn't).
As for a security leak, trust me I KNOW. Kelaeon's been trying to make a big deal of it because "worry about where the leak is later" leaves us in a position of we don't know what is leaked. At the very least, it is his hope that it wasn't someone directly in the meeting room (thus why he said com silence, jamming, etc would be preferred just in case) so the exact plan shouldn't be a problem. Nonetheless they can't just attack everyone who shows up because it MIGHT be the E-i-E, because otherwise Kyrat might be pissed when he shows up and they shoot him. So they at least have to confirm things before gunning them down.
And as stated already in earlier posts, at the very least having the disguises at minimum causes some hesitation when the fighting breaks out because they don't want to accidentally shot at a Sith.
Plus, in regards to splitting the party that kinda increases chances. If the attack happens WHILE we are arriving or right when we are getting confirmed there is a small matter of distractions and such where they might be a bit busy to complete an entire check-up. Now then, if you want to tell a Sith "hold up we are too busy to let you do your mission because we are under attack could you just sit here and wait because we don't trust you while we deal with this attack" as a lowly peon...
I guess the immediate question then is: Do we have a couple of holoshrouds on board?
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Guess that resolves that. Felhammer, still waiting on a response on what the Sith have guarding the planet (and whether we're outgunned, evenly matched, or have an advantage).
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Last edited by Thundercracker : 10-11-2012 at 08:59 PM.
Guess that resolves that. Felhammer, still waiting on a response on what the Sith have guarding the planet (and whether we're outgunned, evenly matched, or have an advantage).
A few small frigates, tens of thousands of troops, thousands of stormtroopers and a full contingent of mech. However, all of their resources are spread out across the planet. The Doctor is being held in an area with less soldiers as the Sith Empire is relying on the Prison to serve as an adequate deterrent to escape and/or assault.
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I guess we're left with a lightning strike with maximum firepower. Hopefully hit them so hard, so fast that theyre too shocked to put up much resistance, much less think straight. Send an assault team by the most direct route we can find to get the scientist, and kill anything that tries to stop us.
The only subtle option i can see is sending sharka ahead cloaked/phased to make sure they dont kill the scientist right before we retrieve him.
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Lord Havelock Vetinari Avatar by AlfredAmeoba.
"A sense of terrifying admiration overcame him.
He wondered what it was like in the Patrician's mind. All cold and shiny, he thought, all blued steel and icicles and little wheels clicking along like a huge clock. The kind of mind that would carefully consider its own downfall and turn it to advantage." "Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."-Terry Pratchett
I guess we're left with a lightning strike with maximum firepower. Hopefully hit them so hard, so fast that theyre too shocked to put up much resistance, much less think straight. Send an assault team by the most direct route we can find to get the scientist, and kill anything that tries to stop us.
The only subtle option i can see is sending sharka ahead cloaked/phased to make sure they dont kill the scientist right before we retrieve him.
We can't match their 10k+ troops and support craft on the planet, so we've got a few choices as I see it:
1. Feint an attack on the other side of the planet to draw their resources and buy enough time for a smaller team to storm the target & escape.
2. Concentrate all our forces around the prison and create a perimeter which will allow the prison to be overrun and provide cover for escape.
In the first option, the feinting force can leave whenever they want, or possibly reposition to assist the assault team, but the enemy might not fall for the feint, in which case the mission is much, much more difficult. In the second option we're relying on the Kestrel and the fighter squadrons to absorb the inevitable counterattack long enough for the team to do their job, which could lead to high casualties.
As for the Sith killing the scientist before we retrieve him, I doubt they will do that, as they know Krayt is coming specifically for the scientist. If they lose the scientist or kill him, they're dead anyway. If they can't hold out until Krayt arrives, their best bet is to be taken prisoner. We should try to convince them of that during the fighting.
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Malcolm Reynolds avatar by Strawberries
I think we've all debated plans back and forth enough. I think its time to settle who's leading the op, and let them give orders. Otherwise, we'll just keep throwing plans back and forth, which we'd never have time to do IC.
I don't know whether Graff would serve better on the ground or leading the air support, but I think Imperial Knight Keleaon should lead, if he is willing. As a knight, there'll be no squabbling over rank if he's put in command of the op.
Last edited by Mithric Gunn : 10-11-2012 at 10:23 PM.
I'll wait and see the others, but since majority are outvoting the disguise plan, I'll just have to settle for going on a massive "WE ARE HERE!" plan.
Then again since most our other missions have been stealth I guess the spy won't be expecting that.
As for the number of troops don't forget they are spread out over most the planet. Plus even 10,000 stormtroopers can't take out a starship, so if we have the ship provide BBQ fire (probably miss, but who wants to run into an orbital bombardment?)
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