How do you know when a game is dead?

[hoverfrog]

The last seven PbP games that I joined in have fizzled. In five out of seven the DM has just stopped posting, sometimes in the middle of a combat. One DM let us know after the fight that it was the end and that was OK because we knew what was going on and he was using the game as a test run for something else anyway. Another DM said that he was too busy to carry on. That was OK too because we know that life happens while you're between games.

Of the other five, nothing. The DM is still active on the forum but he or she just isn't posting on the game thread. A day or two is fine, even three days where the forum is down is bearable, a week is concerning but after two or three weeks of silence is it time to just give up?

How much effort do you put in to a game when it grinds to a halt? Isn't there an etiquette somewhere about letting people know what's going on?

[Dienekes]

Yeah, I have joined about a dozen PbP games here, not one of them have lasted very long, I think the longest was 2.5 months, and that was because the GM told us there would be a good week or so breaks between his post at times.

Normally, yes, you should expect some sign that it's over, but not always. I guess folks don't want to admit they bit off more than they can chew, or just gradually lose interest to the point they don't even think about it.

It sucks but it just happens unfortunately.

[Tengu_temp]

If a game has more than 50% randoms, as opposed to people you know and like and keep contact outside these forums, then it's pretty much dead from the start. Randoms are bad at staying dedicated, and nothing kills a PbP game faster than lack of dedication.

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by hoverfrog

Isn't there an etiquette somewhere about letting people know what's going on?

The thing you have to realize is that, in general, people on the Internet have notoriously bad etiquette.

[Sutremaine]

Originally Posted by hoverfrog

Of the other five, nothing. The DM is still active on the forum but he or she just isn't posting on the game thread. A day or two is fine, even three days where the forum is down is bearable, a week is concerning but after two or three weeks of silence is it time to just give up?

In the game I'm in (started six months ago) the pace was set to a pretty fast one, and when the DM ran over by a couple of days I'd go and PM him. That happened a couple of times, but not in the last few months and the game's going really well. Did you ever message any of the non-posting DMs?

It probably helps that our characters talk to each other a lot, far more than any of us talk in the OOC thread in fact...

[DrK]

Hey.

I think its the nature of pbp. But its also very true of players. Most if the games I've tried to start have lots if interest then after the initial rush half the players don't post or turn up. though in one game we are 15 months and still going strong... So you can get lucky.

[Serpentine]

Most of mine have died for a specific reason (DM couldn't handle it, DM got banned, that sort of thing). But my latest one was going really well, and the DM's just disappeared without warning. I'm getting worried, actually. Anyone seen Galathir around?

[hoverfrog]

DM got banned! How the hell...?

[Serpentine]

Wasn't related to the game, but it did put quite a damper on it.

[blazinghand]

It's fairly common for a campaign between strangers to fizzle. DMing is a fair amount of work, and if it's for people you don't know rather than a social interaction with friends it can be difficult to stay motivated. If you want to have a higher success rate, try playing with groups that you've played with before, or have some of the online group be people you've played with in real life. Staying in regular touch with the DM via PM and putting in effort as a PC to make it entertaining for everyone is also a plus. Even so, though, sometimes things come up in life and people need to take a break from their hobbies. PbP moves slowly and lasts long, so it is more likely to interfere and be pushed to the sidelines.

[The Succubus]

I find the more dice rolls a game has in it, the more likely it is to fizzle. I'm in a Heroes of the Fall game that's been going for about 4-5 months now with almost clockwork regularity yet have never touched the dice roller.

My Braggart PbP game however, seems to have stalled. =/

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by Tengu_temp

If a game has more than 50% randoms, as opposed to people you know and like and keep contact outside these forums, then it's pretty much dead from the start. Randoms are bad at staying dedicated, and nothing kills a PbP game faster than lack of dedication.

Like most other factors, this is hit-or-miss. The first PbP I DMed here was with 6 players I didn't know outside the forum and whose posting styles I hadn't seen, which would seem to be a recipe for quick failure. However, the game's been going strong for over 2 years now, after a bit of a slow period this summer to re-recruit due to lapsed players (1 banned, 2 with RL problems). Sometimes you'll get lucky and find dedicated randoms, and sometimes people you know won't be able to keep their commitments.

[Frivolous]

I'm in one play-by-post game (run by our very own Roland ) that recently celebrated its 2nd anniversary.

It's only Basic D&D, but we're pretty happy with it. Leveling up at a rate of 1 level per year so far, heh.

I've been in over a dozen other D&D and Pathfinder games that fizzled. Many many times, the DM just disappeared. Other times, it died due to lack of player participation.

I commiserate and offer sympathies to hoverfrog and anyone else who has lost a game in this manner. It's very sad and disheartening.

Sometimes I think there should be an index that shows how consistent a player or DM has been. I know I would avoid signing up for games with a DM that went AWOL without a REALLY good explanation.

And if I were a DM, I'd not let a player who went AWOL sign up with my own game, no matter how good the character submission was.

It could be said that quality of character submission is a distant third in importance compared to persistence of play and the ability to get along well with the other participants.

[Togath]

This thread reminds me, I really ought to check up on a few pbps I was/am playing in(they seem to have stopped updating a few weeks ago, dm for two, and the players for the one I was running).


I'm also having something like that with a recent pbp that a few people were trying to get started, but the dm(not the thread starter for the campaign though, so we may be able to find a new one if we have to) hasn't responded in a week, though he has been online daily.
Would it be rude to start looking around for a new dm for it now?, I haven't been 100% on the proper etiquette for that situation.

[Cespenar]

Meh, it's not about unknown people vs. acquaintances. Your friends can very well have periods where they don't have time to post, and they, just as "random people", may lose interest for good. There is, of course, some undeniable bonus to having people that you can prod and harass into returning, but it all comes down to luck, at the end.

My longest game in this forum lasted more than 4 years, for example, and that is longer than anything I've ever played with my close friends, due to them being busy, busy people.

[kardar233]

I've only been in one PbP here, and it ended because of two players leaving; one due to inter-character conflicts, the other because of personal reasons.

I'm just starting a new one, in which I know the GM personally so I can harass him into posting, at least whenever he bothers to go on Skype.

[Marlowe]

Just letting Hoverfrog know that I am not planning on letting Liberate Tutame die, but that I have been running two campaigns of Chinese Public internet without even owning my own computer, and that there have been problems in the character dynamics that have been depressing me. The way the die roller is making almost everyone look completely inept is also very frustrating (could we have somebody roll over a 5 once in a while? Please?)

I bought a new computer yesterday,so hopefully first problem will be sorted soon.

[Random_person]

Speaking as a game master who is less than perfect about running games, I have a piece of advice for those who are like me - recognize it.

If you have a slip up or two, learn from your mistakes. Realize that sometimes, you just won't stick with it. Understand that and do your utmost to mitigate it.

For me, that means only picking up games which have concepts to which you're really committed or are your only shot to run your favourite system or something. And finally, if all else fails and your energy is running out and you just don't think you can do it any more, don't give up, don't stop posting, just tell the players "I need a break for a while. I'll come back, but I need a break." It's easier for them if you don't vanish without warning, and if you can admit that you left it's easier to come back later.

[Sutremaine]

Originally Posted by Togath

I'm also having something like that with a recent pbp that a few people were trying to get started, but the dm [.....] hasn't responded in a week, though he has been online daily. Would it be rude to start looking around for a new dm for it now?

If it's PMs he hasn't been responding to, then no. If it's the game topic, PM him.

[Togath]

Pms in this case, and from asking a few of the other players it looks like we've all tried to contact him about the game.
On the plus side, the thread does seem to still have interest, so we might be able to find a new gm, in this case should I make a new recruiting thread for recruiting a gm?(it's a combo d20modern/yugioh tgc roleplay thingy, so it seems unlikely that we would find someone just randomly looking for a rp/game of that style)

[hoverfrog]

Originally Posted by Marlowe

Just letting Hoverfrog know that I am not planning on letting Liberate Tutame die, but that I have been running two campaigns of Chinese Public internet without even owning my own computer, and that there have been problems in the character dynamics that have been depressing me. The way the die roller is making almost everyone look completely inept is also very frustrating (could we have somebody roll over a 5 once in a while? Please?)

I bought a new computer yesterday,so hopefully first problem will be sorted soon.

No problem Marlowe. It can't be easy.

To everyone, thanks. I think that the key is communication. The frustration I have had is that communication just stops in a lot of cases. Post in the OOC threads go unanswered. A note, as in Marlowe's case, saying that he's having problems is fine. We all know where we stand and aren't in that limbo of not knowing. Even afterwards being told of a problem the players can appreciate that life happens and accept it.

[Mystral]

Personally, I don't think this board is a good place for play by post. There are way better places, where every group gets their on sub-forum and support is just better.

Also, in my experience, people tend to start dming a game roughly 1 month before their first child is born, they have to start a time intensive job or have to move.

[zlefin]

it does seem quite a bit too common. What i'd really like is either a whitelist/blacklist setup, or a full online community that tracks the people and how well they're staying in.
I played dominions 3 for a few years, the community was smaller so it's easier to recognize people; it overall became very apparent that there are a fair number of highly reliable people who never skip out without an explanation or a major accident, a majority who don't skip out much, but will frmo time to time without saying anything; and some people who're just terribly unreliable and will frequently bail on games without notice or if things go bad for them. the forums I used had a policy against having white/blacklists so we couldn't really track them well as a group; i'm not sure how these forums would feel about it, but i'd guess not so fond of it, the way most of the rules seem to be.

[Mystral]

The forum rules state that every thread should exist in a "Vacuum" and no one should, for example, advise people against playing with a certain DM because they have bad experience with him/her. I once got a warning for doing that.

[hoverfrog]

I don't think that a blacklist would be much appreciated. We all have off days and I'd hate to be blackballed for one comment or poor reaction, especially if I'd learnt from it and had no intention of doing the same again.

[Madcrafter]

I'm afraid to say the one pbp game I ever DMed died after a couple good months, just because I accidentally forgot about it. I learned that I shouldn't be a pbp DM from that one, but I'd hate to be blacklisted for it.

I don't mind the high turnover that much, mainly because I enjoy the character creation process quite a bit. I've signed up for somewhere between 15 and 30 games on this forum (all dead now, almost all from DM existence failure). I'm fine with that, though I haven't tried signing up for another since the incident above.

Life is too unpredictable IMHO, which makes the slow consistency of a pbp harder to upkeep than a once a week/month/whatever game IRL for most people.

[SowZ]

I find the games do better when there are 'times.' Like, everyone will be active from 3-6 on Wednesday, then it goes like normal pbp the rest of the week.

[zlefin]

obviously a blacklist woudln't be used for a full forum like this; there'd have to be a separate site for it.
how do you accidentally forget about a game? is your life that busy?
The thing is there's some people, like me, and some others I know from dominions 3, who're totally 100% reliable, they won't forget about a game, they don't fail to show up, they don't disappear without a note explaining the circumstances, finding subs if possible.
If they're losing interest, they say so, and they'll try to work otu a graceful exit that won't be disruptive, and until that can be done they'll keep playing. Many things like this can be done in 5 minutes a day, very manageable even when you're busy.

such a site certainly woudln't be for everyone, or even for most. But I would like to finish an adventure some time; and to do that it HAS to be a policed and monitored community that uses at least half fully reliable regulars; with some mostly regular people and a few new players.

One game failure may not be enoguh to blacklist; and one bad day certainly isn't enough to blacklist. But there would be marks to denote the mostly reliable who still aren't fully so. Also, I know from dom3 there are certain notoriously unreliable people, the equivalent would be gms/players who've made/joined dozens of games and quit most/all of them; which is especially bad for a gm. it is irksome when someone who's repeatedly proven unreliable can't be called out on it.

[Madcrafter]

My life was only moderately busy. The main issue was I closed the game tab in my browser at some point, and no one posted in the IC or OOC thereafter to make it show up in my subsciptions again. (I kinda was vaguely coerced into DMing in the first place, which makes me feel all the worse).

[Sutremaine]

Originally Posted by zlefin

how do you accidentally forget about a game? is your life that busy?

I find that if I accidentally forget about something online, it's because I was doing other stuff online and it completely dropped out of my head.

What I'd find useful for having more than one thing going at once is a bookmark leading to a page set up with all the links I need. There's probably something free out there that can do that.