Let's vote up another Burning Wheel Character!

[Acanous]

Grey Forte.
Second highest physical stat should be whatever makes you harder to hit, be it Agility or Speed (Unfamiliar with system, cast my vote for the appropriate stat plz)

[Siegel]

Originally Posted by Acanous

Grey Forte.
Second highest physical stat should be whatever makes you harder to hit, be it Agility or Speed (Unfamiliar with system, cast my vote for the appropriate stat plz)

You get auto hit if you don't take defensive manuveurs.

[Acanous]

Originally Posted by Siegel

You get auto hit if you don't take defensive manuveurs.

lolwut?

Well, what do Agility and speed do, then? Add to your dice pool? A flat bonus to those manuveurs?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Originally Posted by Siegel

You get auto hit if you don't take defensive manuveurs.

Sort of.

It's a simultaneous action system. Both characters have an action which they attempt at the same time; actions can interact in various ways. If one character mounts an attack, and the other character takes a defensive maneuver (a dodge, a block, or a counterstrike), then the other character has an opportunity to get out of the way...although this means sacrificing a chance to full-out attack.

Otherwise, there's a nominal obstacle which is still technically possible to fail.

What really protects you, though, is armor. Armor negates damage, and that's where most of your defense comes from.

Anyhow, Speed is still your best bet if you want to be able to get away from attacks. You roll Speed to use Avoid. The other two defensive maneuvers are rooted in Agility, because you roll weapon skills.

Speed is also rolled when you want to get somewhere before someone else.

Originally Posted by Xefas

The thing that scares me? The thing that truly terrifies me? A Burning Wheel character with G6 Forte might actually be able to take a hit without crumpling into a pile of sobbing gore.

That's something humans never get to look forward to.

On the flip side, humans get cool magics. (well, okay, so do Orcs...) And a wide variety of skills that pretty much nobody else gets. And they definitely have the best all-around equipment.

But yeah. I never appreciated until now just how scary Orcs are, stat-wise.

Also, update is coming after I finish something tonight.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Final Stats!

G7 Will, B6 Perception, G6 Forte, B5 Power, B5 Speed, B4 Agility

With that said...it's skills time!! Our orcish warlord has required skills from her lifepaths, and then a general skill list from those lifepaths as well. Here's how it breaks down...

Required Skills
Brawling, Armor Training, Mounted Combat Training, Command, Strategy

Investing in these leaves us with 30 skill points to spend on getting new skills from within the lifepaths. We also have five general skill points (for any skill we wish).

Voting!
First, let's vote for which skills we want to "open". When you open a skill, it starts at half the value of its "root" attribute (which means that a fair number of our skills start at B3). Skills may also be grey-shaded, if you spend 5 points to open the skill. Otherwise, it costs one point to open a skill.

So, your voting will have two parts.

A), how many points of the 30 should be devoted to opening skills? (The remaining points go to actually boosting the skills.)
B), what skills do you want to open?

I'll take some sort of statistically significant measure of the Part A votes (maybe average, maybe something a little more math-y), and then open the most popular skills as I have the ability to do.

Lifepath Skills
Intimidation, Torture*, Axe, Bow, Knives, Mace, Riding, Shield-Training***, Clan-wise, Great Wolf Husbandry, Spear, Brutal Intimidation*, Name Ritual**

* These two skills draw on Hatred, the Orcs' racial attribute. We haven't calculated this yet, but if they are opened, we can set aside some points to advance them, if wished, to be added after Hatred is established
** This is a unique skill, allowing the orc to perform the sacred Name Ritual which bestows an individual name upon a formerly nameless creature. (According to the skill, orcs are referred to either by their role or with a wordless grunt.)
*** This skill costs two points to open, is never rolled (or advanced), and merely allows the character to effectively use shields in combat.

For a scale of reference: 3-4 is okay in a skill, 5-6 is quite good, and I believe 8 is the cap for a starting Orc. However, because of the advancement system, lower skills advance much faster than higher skills...so buying more lower skills will benefit a character way more in the long run.

[Sodalite]

I'm not particularly sure why, but I don't feel comfortable voting on the exact number of points that we should invest in opening rather than raising skills. However, I do feel that Name Ritual and Clan-wise would make sense to open, as well some weapon skill or skills, though I don't have on any specific one.

[Sanguine]

Originally Posted by Sodalite

I'm not particularly sure why, but I don't feel comfortable voting on the exact number of points that we should invest in opening rather than raising skills. However, I do feel that Name Ritual and Clan-wise would make sense to open, as well some weapon skill or skills, though I don't have on any specific one.

I agree, though I wish to add Spears, Intimidation, and Riding to the list of skills to open.

[Zelphas]

I'm with Sanguine, though I might add in Great Wolf Husbandry as well. I just like the concept.

[Sith_Happens]

Originally Posted by Sanguine

I agree, though I wish to add Spears, Intimidation, and Riding to the list of skills to open.

Don't forget Brutal Intimidation, which is apparently a separate skill from regular Intimidation ().

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

A), how many points of the 30 should be devoted to opening skills? (The remaining points go to actually boosting the skills.)
B), what skills do you want to open?

My thought is that while our Orcish lass is a seething cesspit of villainy and hatred, what sets her apart from the other Orcs is that her rage is of a slightly less mindless and reckless variety as her fellows. Which is why...

I think we should set aside Seven Points to open skills, from our non-general pool. Specifically taking: Intimidation, Riding, Shield-Training, Clan-Wise, Spears, and Name Ritual. And specifically not taking Torture and Brutal Intimidation. While those are powerful Hatred-fueled skills, they allow your Hatred to take control of you more easily. And we want to control our hate, using it as a finely crafted implement of destruction, rather than it controlling us.

To be bold, I suggest using all Five of our general points for opening skills. Specifically, opening Grey-shade Oratory.

How did we sway so many clans to follow us that we became [Name] [Title], [Second Title], The Thrice Great One? Well, we have what few other Orcs have. Oratory skills. We can inspire, rather than just intimidate (although we can do that too). We can make actual points and arguments, rather than simply dismissing others. We can make ourselves heard over the savage din of our kind.

We're destined to become one of the most well-spoken and inspirational Orcs of all time, hence the Grey Shade.

[Sith_Happens]

Originally Posted by Xefas

My thought is that while our Orcish lass is a seething cesspit of villainy and hatred, what sets her apart from the other Orcs is that her rage is of a slightly less mindless and reckless variety as her fellows. Which is why...

I think we should set aside Seven Points to open skills, from our non-general pool. Specifically taking: Intimidation, Riding, Shield-Training, Clan-Wise, Spears, and Name Ritual. And specifically not taking Torture and Brutal Intimidation. While those are powerful Hatred-fueled skills, they allow your Hatred to take control of you more easily. And we want to control our hate, using it as a finely crafted implement of destruction, rather than it controlling us.

To be bold, I suggest using all Five of our general points for opening skills. Specifically, opening Grey-shade Oratory.

How did we sway so many clans to follow us that we became [Name] [Title], [Second Title], The Thrice Great One? Well, we have what few other Orcs have. Oratory skills. We can inspire, rather than just intimidate (although we can do that too). We can make actual points and arguments, rather than simply dismissing others. We can make ourselves heard over the savage din of our kind.

We're destined to become one of the most well-spoken and inspirational Orcs of all time, hence the Grey Shade.

I think someone here has grey-shade Forum Posting.

Anyways, seconding all of the above.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Sith_Happens

Don't forget Brutal Intimidation, which is apparently a separate skill from regular Intimidation ().

To elaborate on this, for those curious as to why there are two skills that are so similar and/or why you would want to take one over the other:

Spoiler

Intimidation is exactly what you think it would be, and can be taken by any character. You can use it in social combat to threaten, scare, incite, and so on. You can also use it outside of social combat to just make people quiver in fear of you. You get bonuses on Intimidation rolls for factors that make you more unsettling, such as being ludicrously heavily armed, circling your target with thugs and henchmen, or being covered in gore.

Its "Root" stat is Will. The stronger your personality, the more threatening you can be.

Brutal Intimidation is a special Orc-only skill. It does everything that normal Intimidation does. However, its "Root" stat is "Hatred" a special racial stat that only Orcs have, that represents this supernatural font of bestial rage stirring in their heart. Having a high Hatred can be useful in some circumstances, but you don't want to get it too high, or else you become a mindless murder machine (or lapse into an indefinite coma, or commit suicide).

Using Brutal Intimidation contributes to increasing your Hatred.

So, why would you want to use it over normal Intimidation?

Well, one, if you have a low Will, say, because your Orc is more focused on stabbing things to death than talking to them (as in, most of them), having an ostensibly "social" skill that keys off of Hatred instead of Will can be handy.

Two, this skill is special. It's supernatural, and has the capacity to reach beyond the mundane. When you roll for Brutal Intimidation, all "6"s you roll add another die to the roll. And if those are 6s, you get more dice. And if those are 6s, you get more dice. And so on. You can tap into a primordial fountain of bloodlust that makes you potentially more fierce and terrifying than any mortal creature has the right to be. You can rival fear-inducing sorcery and the visage of the gods themselves with this skill. Without having to dedicate yourself to learning magic or taking up a faith.

Potentially.

And you'll probably explode from Hatred build-up beforehand.

But potentially...

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

But yeah. I never appreciated until now just how scary Orcs are, stat-wise.

Well, you have to be fair here, we didn't just build an orc, we build a frikkin warboss, with how many lifepaths again? I lost count. You can't compare that sort of violence with an ordinary human or even orc, I bet that if we build a dwarven king with 8 life paths it would be quite the sight too.

Vote stuff:

Lifepath Skills
Intimidation
Clan-wise
Great Wolf Husbandry
Name Ritual
Spear

I definitely want these skills opened.

question:
we have a grey will stat, shouldn't that mean that all skills keyed to will should be grey as well? And then I mean they should be grey for free.

[Siegel]

Any skill that roots from a Grey stat is opened as a Grey skill.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Siegel

Any skill that roots from a Grey stat is opened as a Grey skill.

Which stats off our available list root to Fort or Will?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Originally Posted by Siegel

Any skill that roots from a Grey stat is opened as a Grey skill.

I am actually not sure about this. Rules are mildly ambiguous. Because in character creation, it says that you have to spend 5 points to open a grey shade skill. It also says elsewhere that skills rooting from Grey stats are opened as Grey skills, but in the context of opening new skills during play.

For the purpose of this thread, I'm gonna make a "GM ruling" that the intent is to still require you to purchase Grey skills with extra skill points, not to get them for free. Mainly because A) that confers hugely massive advantage for characters who Grey Perception/Will (the root of most skills) and B) in terms of story, some of those skills would likely have been "opened" while the character's relevant stat was still Black.

Question for All: Do you just wanna spend those 5 general skill points now to get a Grey-shade Oratory, as was suggested? I do think it's the perfect way for us to create a character who (as was suggested earlier) is able to walk into a room and just take command of the whole room.

[Totally Guy]

I pretty much use this software for making characters.

Character Burner Online

The orc works without verifying anything too.

[Sanguine]

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

Question for All: Do you just wanna spend those 5 general skill points now to get a Grey-shade Oratory, as was suggested? I do think it's the perfect way for us to create a character who (as was suggested earlier) is able to walk into a room and just take command of the whole room.

Yes I would.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

For the purpose of this thread, I'm gonna make a "GM ruling" that the intent is to still require you to purchase Grey skills with extra skill points, not to get them for free.

I disagree, but I'm not going to argue this point with you here(unless, of course, you want to).

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

Question for All: Do you just wanna spend those 5 general skill points now to get a Grey-shade Oratory, as was suggested? I do think it's the perfect way for us to create a character who (as was suggested earlier) is able to walk into a room and just take command of the whole room.

I'm fine with opening oratory, but I don't want to invest all 5 points into it, so no grey if you ask me.

Edit: Thanks for the link totally guy!

[Sodalite]

Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem

Question for All: Do you just wanna spend those 5 general skill points now to get a Grey-shade Oratory, as was suggested? I do think it's the perfect way for us to create a character who (as was suggested earlier) is able to walk into a room and just take command of the whole room.

Yes to opening Oratory as Grey.

[The Glyphstone]

Grey Oratory all the way.

[Zelphas]

I would also agree with opening Oratory as grey. This orc almost seems like a female Julius Caesar, if we add that...

[Analysis]

Grey Oratory is probably worth it here, yes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Okay, let's summarize. It sounds like most of the posters now want to do the Grey-shade Oratory.

Except that I did some hunting around on the BW forums to make sure; turns out that my ruling is reversed. Word of God (or close enough, another one of the forum masters who is at BWHQ, I believe) states that skills open at Grey if the root stat is Grey, no matter if it's at character creation. Which is good news, because Oratory is rooted in Will!

So we have more General skills to pick out. Lemme figure out a way to handle those.

Anyhow, for the rest, we have a couple tiers of skills: ones that come with strong voting support, and ones that come with slightly weaker support.

First Tier
B2 Spears
G3 Intimidation
B3 Name Ritual
B3 Clan-wise
G3 Riding

Second Tier
G3 Great Wolf Husbandry
N/A Shield Training
?? Brutal Intimidation

If we took all eight skills, that would use up 9 points. I've listed the ranks that would default in from the roots (Spears, rooted in Agility, and Brutal Intimidation, rooted in Hatred, are the only non-mental roots; everything else is Perception or Will.)

So, are you all onboard to use up all 9 points? Alternately, would everyone just be willing for me to distribute all the skill points according to the order in which they were voted for? (That's the listed order.)

For the general skill points, here's what I'm gonna do. You toss out something you think our orc should be skilled in that isn't covered by the lifepath skills. I'll take the most popular answer, if there's a skill for it (which there probably is), and open that skill too. That'd leave us with two General skills to boost with those points. (If the most popular answer isn't covered, I'll just go to the next one.

If you're stumped, knowledge about specific categories is a "-wise", such as "Clan-wise". Not only are there many -wises, but you can also pretty much invent a -wise if you want. Well, at least, that's how I'd play it, as long as the GM approves it, and that'll be me.

[Urpriest]

Accounting. Our Orc has risen to the top not just through Oratory, but through a keen understanding of money/teef.

[The Glyphstone]

Can she go meta with Rules-wise? It would, in addition to her Grey Oratory, explain how she became such a powerful leader.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Can she go meta with Rules-wise? It would, in addition to her Grey Oratory, explain how she became such a powerful leader.

NO.

[Sodalite]

Hm...I don't quite know what to do with this round, so I'll go ahead and opt out.

Unrelated for the most part, I'm almost tempted to try and do a vote-something-up related to my setting, but I think that might be me overstaying my welcome.

[Zelphas]

I'm fine with opening up 9 skills. This orc knows how to multitask.

Can I cast a vote in for Rumor-Wise? A good leader always knows the gossip going around about her.

[Totally Guy]

For general skills, the Doctrine of the dark gods of her clan, Falsehood and Throwing seem like things that may be good for her to have.

From her lifepaths Intimidation, Torture, Axe, Riding, Shield-Training, Spear, Brutal Intimidation and Name Ritual seem important.

I've used Brutal Intimidation as a skill specifically for oppressing lesser orcs using social pressures and being really nasty. Outside of doing that stuff I've asked for the regular Intimidation skill to be used instead. I think that's in line with the description in the book.