General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Source please. Developer quote or direct book quote, no implied.

Here's the closest thing I could get to it:

Originally Posted by Scroll of Errata

New Charm Concept: Impossible Actions
Characters who attempt to perform an action with zero dice automatically fail at that action, regardless how many successes they may garner from Charms or other sources.

Ebby has zero in Attributes and Abilities for actions outside the purview of his Excellency, and can't channel Virtues for easy dice, so he literally can't perform any action outside the purview of his Excellency.

Note that Swilly likewise can't perform actions outside the purview of her Excellency, since her Virtue Charms turn those dice into successes, and, as it points out, successes don't do anything if you don't roll dice in the first place.

[Yuki Akuma]

What about stunting? I'm unsure if you can stunt if you have 0 dice...

[TheCountAlucard]

In Ebby's case, stunting still doesn't work, as another one of his Charms turns his stunt dice into auto-successes, and again, successes do nothing when there's no dice behind them.

[Turalisj]

Except you can stunt to make something within the purview of your excellency with certain degrees of plausibility.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Stunting add dice so it is probably allowed even for Ebon Dragon.

Autochton have that big machine that probably works as auto-stunt giver and give him around 10 dice on actions outside of his purview. Not to shabby and explains a lot why his ideas outside of his normal gimmick are so mundane.

Originally Posted by Andreaz

Ktula could not learn any solar magic that exploited her new form. It's why she learned Emulation Principles in the first place to get Kimbery charms.

Learn, yes she couldn't ... develop, probably as E6+ shaenigans since Solar Shard thematics are built around guy who looks normally like tentacle Godzilla.

But creative use of what you have ? I think it should work. For example Archery charms could be used with breath weapon, as it is ranged weapon like any other. Emulating dragon-fear with Mob Dispersing Rebuke was also fun.

On the discussion about Autobot "unable" to create Celestial Exaltation Shards ... if people claiming that would be right it mean that Unconquered Sun, Luna and Maidens found theirs in the gift box from Santa. There is no other logical explanation.

IMO, Golentan very accurately described why Autobot would see Alchies as superior to Celestial Shards. He needed Champions/Protectors and not walking nukes.

[Yuki Akuma]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Except you can stunt to make something within the purview of your excellency with certain degrees of plausibility.

Swillin is still unable to show empathy for individuals, no matter how hard she stunts, and Ebby can't be a shining heroic figure ever.

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Andreaz

Chill, man. I'm talking only on cecelyne's end. There's a very specific list of what she can give you and "She has to have it" is not in there. The receiving end is fairly simpler: If he can have it, it works.

Curiously enough, mortals can't have solar charms, who knew?

Do note that the discussion wasn't about the canon charm, but a potential charm that wouldn't have those weaknesses.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

Swillin is still unable to show empathy for individuals, no matter how hard she stunts, and Ebby can't be a shining heroic figure ever.

Which doesn't prevent Ebby from using melee or Swillin from using socialize.

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Which doesn't prevent Ebby from using melee or Swillin from using socialize.

No, but it does prevent him from using melee unless it qualifies for his excellency, or that one charm where if you're cornered you can do things against theme. You know, like the rules lay out.

[Yuki Akuma]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Which doesn't prevent Ebby from using melee or Swillin from using socialize.

Primordials are incapable of acting in certain ways. This is how they're supposed to work. It's why they find it so hard to relate to mortals and why they suck to be ruled by.

Primordials are not human.

[Exthalion]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

Primordials are incapable of acting in certain ways. This is how they're supposed to work. It's why they find it so hard to relate to mortals and why they suck to be ruled by.

Primordials are not human.

Also, the fact that their rolls use an ability is only because the system must represent it somehow. In reality, the abilities are not intrinsic to their themes, they created them in the same way they created Fate and Reincarnation. (The Virtues are not like this which is what makes them suitable as a source for the UCS's nature). Assuming they emerged from the Wyld full-wrought that is, in which case they never even had ability dots.

Also, they are not nice. Sociopathically myopic they have always been, now they are angry and mean.

[Amechra]

I would argue that some of them are "nice", in their own way.

Adorjan is trying to enlighten you; it's not her fault that you're overly possessive of your life and other such attachments.

Szorezny opposes you so that you can be a better you; isn't that altruistic?

Swillin' just wants everyone to fit in a nice, rigid hierarchy, where there is no strife or problems at all.

Kimbery loves her children to bits, like a good mother.

The problem is that their definition of "nice" is so different from ours that, well...

I think the best thing I've read on it is that the Primordials are adults from the point of view of small children. You know, big, weird, and doing important things that seem utterly nonsensical to us.

It was a dev comment, and I'll see if I can find it...

[Maugan Ra]

The Ebon Dragon is perhaps the only Yozi who doesn't think of himself as nice, or in the right, or possessed of a goal that is actually the best possible outcome if only these mortals would actually understand etc.

And that's because such a world view is, as noted, not in his theme.

(Adorjan might also count by virtue of being totally insane, so who knows how she views herself)

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Maugan Ra

...

(Adorjan might also count by virtue of being totally insane, so who knows how she views herself)

Her goal is salvation isn't it? She frees you of your pain and suffering by ripping you to shreds.

[Amechra]

Adorjan's a real sweet-heart, if you think about it...

I think we should let her out!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. That would be a terrible idea.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Amechra

Adorjan's a real sweet-heart, if you think about it...

I think we should let her out!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. That would be a terrible idea.

Really, if you had to let one out it would probably be Adorjan, since she's the only one that bears no malice towards Creation and the Exalts. You just have to sort of funnel her into the Wyld and find a way to keep her out there. Then she'll have infinite playmates and no reason to return except by accident/the machinations of the Raksha.

[Exthalion]

Oh I think most of them revel in their malice. Malfeas wants to make you hurt because he does. He doesn't think this is good, he thinks you can't do anything about it.

The Endless Desert will grind you down to dust, physically or spiritually, and enjoy your degradation.

She who lives is perfectly fine killing you if it is in service to her Greater Good, which happens to be doing what Malfeas wants. Meaning the fact that killing ALL the prayer batteries is inefficient and thus loathsome to her is meaningless. She is working for a loathsome world because her king wants it.

Part of the Maiming was to make their myopia into active adversity (TED didn't need much work.) The Yozi do their best to try to kill each other, stopped only by the fact that they can't. Isodorus prevents Malfeas from Crushing Things, Adorjan really, truly, would kill them all if she could, The Endless Desert oppresses even her own souls with her arbitrary law. Think about Kimbery and all her spite and hate and poison. The line between love and hate is very easily crossed with her.

[The_Snark]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Really, if you had to let one out it would probably be Adorjan, since she's the only one that bears no malice towards Creation and the Exalts. You just have to sort of funnel her into the Wyld and find a way to keep her out there. Then she'll have infinite playmates and no reason to return except by accident/the machinations of the Raksha.

Unfortunately, it's possible that Adorjan loves Creation too much to leave it alone. Hard to predict.

Myself, I'd pick Qaf as the safest to release. I'm not sure what releasing him would actually do, but "unsure" is a lot better than any other Yozi I can think of.

[Lord Raziere]

Well he does seem like the most passive of the Yozis….Qaf seems more like some monk who sits in the corner and when you go seek him for wisdom, all you get is some weird koan or question back and you have to figure it out yourself, but when you do and you come back to him, all he does is nod then pose another koan…..

[aetherialDawn]

Originally Posted by The_Snark

Unfortunately, it's possible that Adorjan loves Creation too much to leave it alone. Hard to predict.

Myself, I'd pick Qaf as the safest to release. I'm not sure what releasing him would actually do, but "unsure" is a lot better than any other Yozi I can think of.

We do know at least some ways to control and distract Szoreny, although it still is dangerous for a few dedicated Exalted... And he is also the one who seems to think it possible to obtain 'parole' of a sort. Perhaps some bindings can be released without releasing all of them.

[Gensh]

I'm still interested in how exactly one might go about "sort-of" freeing the Yozis. The crux of the Dragon's plan is abusing Heaven's marriage laws to acquire metaphysical ownership of the Blessed Isle and then gradually corrupting it so as to be more habitable. Is the reverse possible? No one but the Bronze Faction uses Meru anymore; would it be possible to construct an Artifact N/A geomantic array atop and beneath the city to make it a part of the Demon City? Surely Malfeas would cool off "enough" from the pleasure of sitting atop humanity's greatest capital to want to keep you alive a bit longer without turning you akuma. And then that gives you the opportunity to broker deals with his subsouls, so on and so forth.

But paroling Yozis "as-is," your best bets are:
Szoreny, who will take forever to actually act against you
SWLIHN, when given enough paperwork
Isidoros, when dared to live as a human adventurer for an indefinite period of time
Qaf, who doesn't care about much of anything
Adorjan, when placed inside a giant hamster wheel

[Amechra]

I'm now imagining Isodoros as a cross between Pumba and an 18th century British explorer.

It is an awesome image.

[Exthalion]

She Who Lives would likely be the safest bet if you can get her to legitimately submit to be subservient to you. You are now dictator forever, but that is nothing but good for you. She even offered it at the end of the war.

[Gareth3]

I've always wondered if Qaf was a warden of the Yozis, not a fellow prisoner. He's in his own pocket universe and doesn't seem to be suffering much.

[Draken]

Hell is only particularly awful and horrible for Malfeas himself and for demons of the 1st circle.

Most of the other Yozis are just locked in there, but generally not in continuous physical agony.

[golentan]

Guys, is the Diablo 3 Monk inspired by Exalted?

I noticed that they keep going on about being champions of the gods, have supernatural, holy martial arts, skills such as Exalted Spirit which give additional reservoirs of holy power, and of course have access to a class specific headgear which can resemble a golden sunburst affixed to their forehead.

So the similarities are obviously there, I was wondering if anyone has Word of God to the effect that yes, Exalted was a source of inspiration/homage.

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by golentan

Guys, is the Diablo 3 Monk inspired by Exalted?

I noticed that they keep going on about being champions of the gods, have supernatural, holy martial arts, skills such as Exalted Spirit which give additional reservoirs of holy power, and of course have access to a class specific headgear which can resemble a golden sunburst affixed to their forehead.

So the similarities are obviously there, I was wondering if anyone has Word of God to the effect that yes, Exalted was a source of inspiration/homage.

There's a cycle of cause and effect that gets rather confused. Championing the Gods has always been around, as well as the format used in eastern religions that the Monk uses. Same with the jewelry.

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

Learn, yes she couldn't ... develop, probably as E6+ shaenigans since Solar Shard thematics are built around guy who looks normally like tentacle Godzilla.

But creative use of what you have ? I think it should work. For example Archery charms could be used with breath weapon, as it is ranged weapon like any other. Emulating dragon-fear with Mob Dispersing Rebuke was also fun.

That's complicated. Sol having other forms does not figure into solar exaltations. What he poured in was the whole arete thing. The exaltations work from a baseline human form. Natural, not-human stuff cannot have solar charms made for it.
It's not that current charms don't work, but they work as sheer happenstance. Excellencies still work for example. But no MA charm for extra-tentacly grapples.

[Amechra]

I'm of the opinion that Solar Exaltations are more thematically flavored by the Unconquered Sun; an actual Solar Exaltation is, thematically, what you'd get if Humanity was a Primordial and you were acting within it's potential (not actual) themes.

Actually, if you worked within Humanity's actual themes, what kind of charms would you be getting? Easily Crushed Sutra? Like Tissue Paper Understanding? Hide and Pray Shintai?

I kinda wish I knew more of the Exalted rules set, so that I could Devil-Tiger this...

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by Amechra

I'm of the opinion that Solar Exaltations are more thematically flavored by the Unconquered Sun; an actual Solar Exaltation is, thematically, what you'd get if Humanity was a Primordial and you were acting within it's potential (not actual) themes.

Actually, if you worked within Humanity's actual themes, what kind of charms would you be getting? Easily Crushed Sutra? Like Tissue Paper Understanding? Hide and Pray Shintai?

I kinda wish I knew more of the Exalted rules set, so that I could Devil-Tiger this...

Forget primordials. Exalted is a game about how awesome humans are!

[Amechra]

Ah, but I want to Devil Tiger humanity...

They'd get an Essence 6 charm that let's Essence 3 Enlightened Mortals hit Essence 4 without dying!

And just as a note... could Solars design charms that make them better Prayer Batteries? After all, it is something that humans are...