General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord

[Yuki Akuma]

Humans don't die if they hit Essence 4. Unless they're Ghost-Blooded. Usually they become a God.

I could see a charm (probably in Performance) that lets you grant spirits extra Essence by praying to them. It could be used as a handy bribe!

[Andreaz]

They don't become a god by gaining E4...they need to become gods before gaining E4. They cap at 3.

[aetherialDawn]

One: Performance is the Ability of prayer
Two: Solar charms take an ability and run with how that ability is used

Therefore, such charms are entirely reasonable - but I can one up that!
The charm already exists, and is called...
The First Performance Excellency!

[Dragnar]

Originally Posted by Andreaz

They don't become a god by gaining E4...they need to become gods before gaining E4. They cap at 3.

Actually, not exactly. They cap at 3, yes. But if they somehow break that, which requires an outside force, they ascend to godhood. Or demonhood. Or whatever. (The MAIN way for them to reach 4 is getting an Endowment charm. They turn into the same type of being as used it on them. Unless they were half-bloods already.)

[Rockphed]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

Humans don't die if they hit Essence 4. Unless they're Ghost-Blooded. Usually they become a God.

I could see a charm (probably in Performance) that lets you grant spirits extra Essence by praying to them. It could be used as a handy bribe!

So long as I cannot give them more motes than it takes to use the charm, I think this sounds like a perfectly good idea.

Perfected Prayer Prana
Requirements: Performance 4, Essence 3, any Performance Excellency
Cost: 2 m

When a God King needs help, there is normally noone to come to their aid. Those beings powerful enough to assist are normally reluctant to help without a bribe of some sort. Any time the Lawgiver prays, he may sacrifice motes, which the target of the prayer receives when the prayer concludes. If the Solar is instead leading a group in worship, the group is treated as being one magnitude larger.

Zealot's Zeal Zeitgeist
Requirements: Performance 5, Essence 4, any Performance Excellency, Perfected Prayer Prana
Cost: --- [1m]

[Fluff needed]

When using Perfected Prayer Prana, the Solar may give up anything, at a cost of 1 mote per thing, to send it to the being of worship.

[Exthalion]

Technically, it is a Lore charm that already exists and improves prayer. It is one of the Shinmaic ones that lets everybody in the area count as ten for purposes of prayer.

If you were going to DT humanity, I would suggest drawing heavily from NGE.

[Amechra]

I will call him Ikari, Song of Instrumentality! Alternatively, Ikari, Father of the Year!

Unless you have a better suggestion... Maybe Lilith, Mother of Prayer?

When I have time, I kinda want to write up hir Excellency...

[Kobold-Bard]

What's the benefit to Abscissic Binding? It gives the demon a Limit track, meaning it'll occassionally go crazy and do something stupid. What's the upside that balances out having to deal that new issue?

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

What's the benefit to Abscissic Binding? It gives the demon a Limit track, meaning it'll occassionally go crazy and do something stupid. What's the upside that balances out having to deal that new issue?

Actually, it's mandatory...

[Kyeudo]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

What's the benefit to Abscissic Binding? It gives the demon a Limit track, meaning it'll occassionally go crazy and do something stupid. What's the upside that balances out having to deal that new issue?

A task bound Demon does only the task until it is completed, even if you want it to stop. It also does the task the way it wants to do it, not the way you want it to do it, so you have to be very careful about how you word the task.

An Abscissic bound demon obeys your orders for a year and a day. You can have it do anything you want and tell it to do things your way.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Kyeudo

...

An Abscissic bound demon obeys your orders for a year and a day. You can have it do anything you want and tell it to do things your way.

I thought that was the case already with normal Demon summoning:

Originally Posted by Core p.253

If the sorcerer wins, this spell exerts unnatural mental influence on the demon, binding it into servitude. The demon becomes loyal (see p. 175) to the character and will serve him for a year and a day, or the demon becomes loyal to a task the character names and will serve it until it is complete—potentially, forever.

Is Andreaz right, did it become mandatory once it was published and supersede the Core book?

[omegalith]

So if Kagami is Szoreny's Fetich soul, who's Fetich is Konata?

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Is Andreaz right, did it become mandatory once it was published and supersede the Core book?

Yes, pretty much.

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by omegalith

So if Kagami is Szoreny's Fetich soul, who's Fetich is Konata?

Hegra, of course.

[Drascin]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

Yes, pretty much.

Note, however, that a lot of STs don't really use the whole shebang at all, so ask your ST.

[Friv]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

I thought that was the case already with normal Demon summoning:



Is Andreaz right, did it become mandatory once it was published and supersede the Core book?

The original core book suggested that demons were slaves to their natures, and although they remain loyal to the sorcerer things would occasionally go wrong and they'd do something totally messed up out of a lack of understanding. This was something that sorcerers could avoid by either not really caring, or by keeping a close eye on their demons. The Abcissic Binding system was meant to provide an actual rules framework for that, allowing players to have a say in when and if their demons went off the rails.

In 2e, though, I feel like the "occasionally out of control" aspect of things got severely downplayed, leaving the Bindings as an optional rule for people who think summoning is too powerful.

[Ronnoc]

Originally Posted by Gensh

But paroling Yozis "as-is," your best bets are:
Szoreny, who will take forever to actually act against you
SWLIHN, when given enough paperwork
Isidoros, when dared to live as a human adventurer for an indefinite period of time
Qaf, who doesn't care about much of anything
Adorjan, when placed inside a giant hamster wheel

Would anything to terribly cataclysmic happen if you let Elloge out?

[Tavar]

Every Primordial is disastrous in their own way, even the potentially nice ones like Autochthon and Gaia.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by Ronnoc

Would anything to terribly cataclysmic happen if you let Elloge out?

Personally don't know enough about her, but I imagine the answer is "probably".

[aetherialDawn]

Elloge, as part of her manipulation of grammar, would probably be able to corrupt oaths if freed.

This might apply to the Yozi binding oaths. So long as she's in Malfeas, she does not have the freedom to do it, but the potential of such a thing is Not Okay.

Szoreny can manipulate the relationship between things and their reflections, and via Kagami and smush spaces together - as can Qaf, and Isidoros, and to some degree SWLiHN (although she wouldn't except as her place dictated) but the presence of infinite Cecelyne prevents that so it's okay, probably.

[Maugan Ra]

Originally Posted by Tavar

Every Primordial is disastrous in their own way, even the potentially nice ones like Autochthon and Gaia.

Gaia is not nice. Not even remotely.

As for Elloge, well... It might turn everything into Raksha. Or at least give everything the same sense of being defined through their stories. It might rewrite the Loom of Fate to be more interesting. Or it might metaphorically stab everyone to death... by which I mean it will stab you with metaphors until you die.

Primordials are never safe and easily contained.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Maugan Ra

Gaia is not nice. Not even remotely.

What do you mean, the books specifically say that Gaia loves every living... Oh wait so do Kimbery and Adorjan...

[Maugan Ra]

Heh. Gaia, as far as I can tell, loves life as a whole, not individual lives or even species. She invented most of nature, and everything that nature does happens because it's following her intended course.

Parasites that strangle you to death inside your intestines? Neurotoxins that kill inside of a breath or two? Diseases that slay millions and rot their corpses? Entire species that wipe each other out in the competition for resources? Gaia can claim credit for all of it, just as much as the fluffy bunnies and tasty fruits.

I do have to wonder what her charm set would look like, though. I remember a comment somewhere that the upper levels of it include genocide effects.

I also got to thinking about the idea of a Primordial set of themes for humanity. I'd focus around the ideas of tribalism and adaptability. Make it applicable when working for a benefit of a social group in which you are a member, or when attempting a new approach to a problem. Not too sure on the specifics, though.

[Exthalion]

Originally Posted by Maugan Ra

Heh. Gaia, as far as I can tell, loves life as a whole, not individual lives or even species. She invented most of nature, and everything that nature does happens because it's following her intended course.

Parasites that strangle you to death inside your intestines? Neurotoxins that kill inside of a breath or two? Diseases that slay millions and rot their corpses? Entire species that wipe each other out in the competition for resources? Gaia can claim credit for all of it, just as much as the fluffy bunnies and tasty fruits.

I do have to wonder what her charm set would look like, though. I remember a comment somewhere that the upper levels of it include genocide effects.

I also got to thinking about the idea of a Primordial set of themes for humanity. I'd focus around the ideas of tribalism and adaptability. Make it applicable when working for a benefit of a social group in which you are a member, or when attempting a new approach to a problem. Not too sure on the specifics, though.

Does that mean Gaia has no call to complain in a moral sense if humans are killing her? We would be the flesh eating parasites in that relationship.

[Lord Raziere]

No, cause Gaia also designed immune systems. she has probably designed humanity's perfect predator on/within her, just in case they to come to try and exploit her.

[Exthalion]

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

No, cause Gaia also designed immune systems. she has probably designed humanity's perfect predator on/within her, just in case they to come to try and exploit her.

That is a practical response. I am interested in the moral response.

[Lord Raziere]

That is the moral response for Gaia: you come, try and suck me dry with parasitism, you get a predator race that kills you all in my self defense. Why? because survival of the fittest. The predator race is the fittest, because it was designed to be more fit than you, therefore it wins, therefore I have defended myself out of self-defense.

[golentan]

First, don't kill Gaia, please. Creation's geomancy doesn't need more abuse, like (for example) losing the Elemental Dragons.

Secondly: The Practical response usually is the moral response (or the other way around) for primordials. If malfeas sentences you to ten thousand years of radioactive agony followed by total annihilation for attacking him, the answer to "Is it a practical self defense" and "Does Malfeas view this as the proper moral response to being attacked" is "yes."

[Exthalion]

If the humans are championed by the Exalted I don't think Gaia can design a more fit predator. What then?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Exthalion

If the humans are championed by the Exalted I don't think Gaia can design a more fit predator. What then?

Sure she can: Other exalted. She's got some of her own after all (admittedly once removed). And it's already been demonstrated that her exalted can Zerg Rush celestials even at their most powerful.

And now I'm stuck with the mental image of a hundred thousand dragonblooded rushing into Meru during the usurpation shouting "KEKEKEKE!"