GITP Fantasy Blood Bowl Cup - Season II [Team Management] - Page 6

Oh My God · 11-05-2012, 11:47 AM

Week Three of SportsNight is up in the thread.

I'm also going to place a wager (gasp!).

20,000 GP on Tinwe winning it.

Crow · 11-06-2012, 12:02 AM

As soon as we get a gameplan from Steilos I will start running these matches to hopefully get them up early.

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 11:46 AM

Speak of the daemon, and he shall come.

Sure Hands for Carlos Francis and Killer Kev.

I want that gods-forsaken ball if I have to bleed out for it.

docnessuno · 11-06-2012, 04:40 PM

Now, that's what i call a good match!

Green IS Your Enemy!

#6 Uthanak reaches 10 SPP: (2d6)[2][5](7)
#8 Heathecliff reaches 10 SPP: (2d6)[5][1](6)

Aedilred · 11-06-2012, 04:40 PM

Well, that was disappointing. Still, at least my ludicrous TV hasn't ballooned any further. No SPP rolls this week.

Red Sabres:

Spoiler

docnessuno · 11-06-2012, 05:01 PM

Green IS your enemy!

#6 Uthanak gains Might Blow
#8 Heathecliff gains Might Blow

Updated Roster:

Green IS your enemy!

Spoiler

Crow · 11-06-2012, 05:14 PM

Roll for Long John Hardrock (2d6)[3][4](7)

Roll for Oscar Meyer (2d6)[5][1](6)

Crow · 11-06-2012, 05:18 PM

Both of them take Fend.

Not sure if I want to bloat my TV any more with a reroll, so I'll hold off for a few days to think about it.

Styx Rivermen Crow

Spoiler

Oh My God · 11-06-2012, 05:24 PM

Three games, no skills, and a total BS game.

Pretty sure right around here is where I abandon the team.

Aedilred · 11-06-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh My God

Three games, no skills, and a total BS game.

Pretty sure right around here is where I abandon the team.

Well, at least now you've played the Rivermen, things can't get any worse. Probably.

Oh My God · 11-06-2012, 05:40 PM

Down two of three positionals, with a grand total of 8 players going against a full Orc squad next week? Winning just isn't going to happen again for a long, long, long time... right about when they are at the end of the season (and it doesn't matter) and they'll be shredded by the Chaos teams in the last two weeks, so they won't even be able to go into the next season with anything.

Seems like the AI must have some sort of terminal stupid.

Crow · 11-06-2012, 05:43 PM

Some observations on offense, and how the computer chooses who carries the ball from this week (still trying to figure this out definitively):

- If your team has a thrower or equivelent position, he will get the ball first.

- - Dwarves give the runners first shot at the ball

- If you don't have a thrower, the computer seems to pick a positional player, avoiding linemen-type players.

- Blitzers (or equivelent) seem to get the ball first over catchers. The computer likes to send catchers downfield.

- - The runners on Norse teams are treated as catchers.

- Once positional preference is determined, it likes to go by attributes and skills. High agility, speed, and sure hands players get the nod first. If there is no difference (like between two similar blitzers) whoever is closest to the ball gets it.

- The computer does not want to leave the ball on the pitch after kickoff. If the ball is out of reach for it's preferred ballcarrier, it will go with whoever it can, and choose it's preference from those. There is not much way to control this other than having multiple ball carrier players, or as in my case, giving the guy you like the kick off return skill to make sure he is close by.

Crow · 11-06-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh My God

Down two of three positionals, with a grand total of 8 players going against a full Orc squad next week? Winning just isn't going to happen again for a long, long, long time... right about when they are at the end of the season (and it doesn't matter) and they'll be shredded by the Chaos teams in the last two weeks, so they won't even be able to go into the next season with anything.

Seems like the AI must have some sort of terminal stupid.

Your team seems to be starting off like the Sabres did last season (Except they had no wins). Your SPP's are really spread out, which if it is anything like Aedilred's team, means you will explode with level ups as those guys are going to hit 6 spp in bunches.

It only takes about 18 points to secure a playoff spot, give or take, maybe less for a wild card, so your postseason hopes aren't dashed by any means. The chaos teams will be tough at the end of the season, but I would be really surprised if you haven't clinched a spot by then. Agile teams seem to do well.

At that point, you do what I did, and sit your most valuable players for the match so they don't risk getting hurt. My last match of the season, I was sitting 4 players, and sat 2 in the match before that.

And yes, the AI does have a pretty good case of stupid at times. Sometimes it works in your favor, and sometimes not. I watched our game, and your team didn't play too stupidly, they were just outmatched, and the apothecaries don't really help until a player has been already knocked out of the game. I really like how Die Valkyrie used their inducement cash this week. It's no surprise since Leriel watched Aedilred do the same thing last year to beat better teams. The Red Sabres got Aedilreded!

I am a little concerned that casualties have been so high (and of those, been pretty severe). It is weird. We should have more KO's than casualties, and we have had more deaths in 3 weeks than all of last season combined. I am wondering if it is something to do with Chaos Edition.

Edit: Oh and you will have Valinor next week, he will just have the lower AV. We only make them miss the game if it says ''Miss Next Game''. This makes it less confusing for people who are not as familiar with the rules.

Oh My God · 11-06-2012, 06:02 PM

Elf teams don't have extra players, especially (it seems) in this league. I won't be able to 'sit' anyone, because I won't have anyone to play for them.

Did the AI ever leave an elf next to a Khemri player with mighty blow when it could have dodged away? Did it ever -intentionally move- a player into the tackle zone of a Khemri player with mighty blow? These are two examples of terminal stupidity while coaching an elf team. If the AI -didn't- do that, then you got pretty amazingly lucky on your blitzes.

The purpose of the Apothecaries was to prevent massive serious injuries. Which didn't actually wind up happening, which is going to lead to a spiral of doom.

In the end, decisions I made had no discernable impact on the game. Kicks fun in the junk, that does.

Edit: That's a pretty... weird rules change.

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 06:12 PM

So I proved Crow wrong. Am I now truly intiated into the league?

Goddamnit, Kaldsorfan. Just go ahead and render my Sure Hands guys completely friggin' obsolete why don't you.

I am disgusted in you, herald of Khorne. Your job is to PUNCH! God, Carlos got in the fray more than you did and I'm pretty sure he's not Khornate!

Welp.
Kaldsorfan the Ballcarrier (2d6)[7]
Killer Kev (2d6)[10]
Bludgeon Barry (2d6)[4]
God damnit it didn't show the indicvidual rolls. I thought I'd fixed that. AH well, Khorne offers ridiculous skill access!
Kaldsorfan will pick up Block
Killer Kev will take up the mantle of the Guard
Bludgeon Barry will up his MV

Crow · 11-06-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh My God

Elf teams don't have extra players, especially (it seems) in this league. I won't be able to 'sit' anyone, because I won't have anyone to play for them.

Did the AI ever leave an elf next to a Khemri player with mighty blow when it could have dodged away? Did it ever -intentionally move- a player into the tackle zone of a Khemri player with mighty blow? These are two examples of terminal stupidity while coaching an elf team. If the AI -didn't- do that, then you got pretty amazingly lucky on your blitzes.

The purpose of the Apothecaries was to prevent massive serious injuries. Which didn't actually wind up happening, which is going to lead to a spiral of doom.

In the end, decisions I made had no discernable impact on the game. Kicks fun in the junk, that does.

If sitting players leaves you below 11, then journeymen fill in, so there are no worries on that front.

The AI tends to play the ball, so it has placed players in harm's way while trying to get assists against the ball carrier, but it doesn't try to man-mark against players that will annihilate them unless there is a passing threat.

As far as dodging away from dangerous players, it dodges away from players more than I would like it to, but this is in response to ball position and if that player can assist the play (I don't think it will dodge just to avoid a mighy blow player). It also seems to do this without regard for who is doing the dodging which is infuriating when it tries to dodge with one of my tomb guardians and gets turnovered on the first move.

Like I said, the AI is pretty stupid at times.

As for your decisions having an impact...Yeah, I know what you mean. I am still trying to figure out how best to influence the AI, and if I make any breakthroughs you will be the first to know! I was really happy that skilling up my blitz-ra as a runner with my GP points worked as intended.

Once those guys start pushing through the 6 spp barrier, you will have a lot more control over team direction.

edit: Yeah, it is weird, but it is easier. Most people last season had zero blood bowl experience.

edit edit: Steilos, use ''rollv'' ''/rollv''
Also, the guy that got 10 can up his MV, not Barry. Doubles allow any skill, but only 10 can up MV/AV, 11 for AG, and 12 for ST.

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 06:29 PM

I know, I just messed up the order. Bludgeon Barry will take Guard. Killer Kev will up MA. Saving the money for now.

MAIM KILL BURN

Spoiler

Oh My God · 11-06-2012, 06:34 PM

That most people had no Blood Bowl experience explains why more people aren't just utterly baffled by what's going on here. I've been playing for (god) over a decade, and its really hard to believe the results we're getting. Teams without rerolls should be -failing-. There shouldn't be anywhere near the level and number of CAS we're seeing with how undeveloped teams are.

One of the best examples would be the Patched Plagues: They've ripped three players in a total of three games. They've got no damage enhancing skills. They've got nothing whatsoever that should make them any more or less lethal than, heck, -my- team. And yet, there they are. A complete statistical anomaly.

I'm just not buying the optimism you're feeling for my team, Crow. In order for them to break late in the season, they need to start producing SPPs. They couldn't out-manuever a -Khemri- team to get a -single touchdown-. Elf teams are supposed to produce points. Elf teams that don't produce points, don't last.

Here's their roster for the next week. ( To what little extent that it matters. )

Tinwë United

Spoiler

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 06:40 PM

I think the biggest ray of hope for Tinwe United is that everyone is labouring under the same AI. It's entirely possible that next game the AI will decide dodging away from elves is the ultimate attacking play. I mean, I'm just waiting for the AI to horribly mismanage my team's universal Frenzy and get someone surfed to death.

Oh My God · 11-06-2012, 06:43 PM

The idea that the AI 'favors' dodging doesn't match the numbers of CAS we're seeing come up. I used to pilot a Wood Elf team back in the day when Claw and Razor Sharp Claw were utterly gross, and the sort of massacre that Johnny's Quest went through is only something I would have suffered if I'd been utterly brain dead about positioning. The AI seems to favor getting stuck in.

docnessuno · 11-06-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steilos

I think the biggest ray of hope for Tinwe United is that everyone is labouring under the same AI. It's entirely possible that next game the AI will decide dodging away from elves is the ultimate attacking play. I mean, I'm just waiting for the AI to horribly mismanage my team's universal Frenzy and get someone surfed to death.

Make it the game after next one. I'm up next

On a more serious note, Twine have 6 players that will levelup with a single TD, so i think you should see 4+ levelups within the next 2 games.

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docnessuno

Make it the game after next one. I'm up next

On a more serious note, Twine have 6 players that will levelup with a single TD, so i think you should see 4+ levelups within the next 2 games.

I'm saving up for the occasion.

So, uh, crow, did I make any mistakes with my roster? I assume not, but this bookkeeping business is surprisingly hard.

Crow · 11-06-2012, 07:04 PM

Steilos: I will take a look when I get home.

Oh My God: I will look into the pro elf AI and see if there is any way to make your team avoid contact more.

I too am concerned by the casualties we are seeing. The last two weeks have been more brutal than anything I have seen doing this cup. Aedilred compiles stats, so he would know better, but it seems we are getting more CAS than we should.

Aedilred · 11-06-2012, 07:10 PM

The results have sometimes had me scratching my head too. The probabilities on the AI don't always seem to work out as you'd expect and for most of last season it really seemed to struggle to deal with agile passing teams, preferring to move the ball on the ground where possible. My team got badly mauled in my first four matches with a fairly balanced lineup (hence why I started with an Ogre this time). The newer edition seems to have rectified that to an extent (the Quest are doing very well in terms of results at least) but there are still some anomalies. Like you say, the Plagues are a surprisingly strong blocking outfit (as the Horde were) and, considering the makeup of the teams, the Sabres-Valkyries match this week seems to have been rather stodgy.

Re-rolls do look to be less significant than on the tabletop. Teams with more re-rolls do seem to do marginally better, but the only teams that have had more than about two have been the top teams in the league anyway, so it's difficult to tell. Certainly, the apothecary appears to offer much better value for money than a re-roll.

But then I've heard the Blood Bowl AI criticised before by reviewers and the like, and we're never going to get an AI to play exactly the way we'd want it to (a recurring annoyance for both me and houlio last time, I think); at least we're all in the same boat.

docnessuno · 11-06-2012, 07:11 PM

This might also depends on the teams involved. AV7 with no block / wrestle / dodge, going up against MB's means some CAS is pretty much assured.

Also it's quite obvious that Cyanide's AI is poor, it was since the first PC bloodbowl and didn't improve in the various iteraction. The challange of this league is to succeed despite the AI.

Aedilred · 11-06-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

Steilos: I will take a look when I get home.

Oh My God: I will look into the pro elf AI and see if there is any way to make your team avoid contact more.

I too am concerned by the casualties we are seeing. The last two weeks have been more brutal than anything I have seen doing this cup. Aedilred compiles stats, so he would know better, but it seems we are getting more CAS than we should.

We've actually had fewer casualties at this point in the league than we did last season (50 compared to 60). We are also down on KOs by a similar margin (50 versus 61). However, it does appear that the injuries this season have been more serious on average, with fewer players "badly hurt" and more of them missing games or suffering permanent injuries. Unfortunately I haven't been keeping stats on injury type, so I have no way of making that comparison.

I too expected the casualty count to be up, especially since we started with some more formidable blocking lineups than last time, but we also seem to have more teams with better armour. Perhaps that is part of the problem: rather than the number of casualties per se, the casualties we are seeing are being inflicted disproportionately on certain teams. Both elf teams, and Rampage!, seem to have taken severe punishment.

Steilos · 11-06-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docnessuno

This might also depends on the teams involved. AV7 with no block / wrestle / dodge, going up against MB's means some CAS is pretty much assured.

Also it's quite obvious that Cyanide's AI is poor, it was since the first PC bloodbowl and didn't improve in the various iteraction. The challange of this league is to succeed despite the AI.

By this logic, the best equipped teams are the ones that can weather the AI's dodgy decisions, either through Nuffle's benevolence, awesome players or just being able to take whatever the coach decides they can take. Like BEERd, who I'm pretty sure that despite their performance are barely scratched. Gotta love AV9 and Thick Skull.

ybot · 11-06-2012, 09:29 PM

Not a great game but that was expected. I need to play a team with low AV to get more spp.

Roll for Airplane Whitebeard (2d6)[1][2](3)

ybot · 11-06-2012, 09:36 PM

Airplane will take Guard

BEERd will hire the half-brother of Elvish and half-Amazon (half-skaven are apparently too squishy) Amazo Blackbeard the runner

Beerd (dwarfs) ybot

Spoiler

houlio · 11-07-2012, 12:24 AM

Wow, I'm surprised the Fancy Lads have had such a scoring streak. I don't remember winning by more than a single point all last season. Still no skill-ups yet.

Spoiler