Dungeons of Dredmor

[The Succubus]

Right - anyone else that needs to vote or wants to join the game, you have until tomorrow evening and then the show is going on the road.

[Flickerdart]

What do the Dark Forces levers do? I'm not enough of a dupe to pull them (the zombie zoo was enough!) but I'm still curious.

[monkeyboyinc]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

What do the Dark Forces levers do? I'm not enough of a dupe to pull them (the zombie zoo was enough!) but I'm still curious.

As far as I can tell, they just give you The Pact of Fleeting Life buff without any of the downsides. They seem harmless enough to me.

[Eurus]

My god. The Asgardian Stormhammer actually doesn't require anything too crazy to craft, ingredient-wise (warhammer, voltaic potion, platinum x2)... but it requires Smithing 7. Guess I'm lucky I have Clockwork Knight.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Eurus

My god. The Asgardian Stormhammer actually doesn't require anything too crazy to craft, ingredient-wise (warhammer, voltaic potion, platinum x2)... but it requires Smithing 7. Guess I'm lucky I have Clockwork Knight.

Why wouldn't you have that.

[The Succubus]

Lets roll some dice...

Challenger 1: Science Officer
Challenger 2: Reynard

Theme: Keep It Away!

We're going with Dwarven Moderation, NTTG and a whopping 15 levels of dungeon crawly fun.

And the thread is up! Take it away guys!

[monkeyboyinc]

Anyone else ever enjoy just choosing random skills, not looking at what you've even got until the game starts, and then deciding which skill to improve at each level up via a dice roll?
God, it's just so much fun...

[Flickerdart]

Guys, I have a hoarding problem. New stuff doesn't fit into my inventory because of all my wands and potions and booze. I even ditched all but the highest star rated bolts. What are good tips on space management, so I have everything important handy without needing to sneak off to the pocket dimension to rummage through my junk for that coral wand when I need it most?

[AmberVael]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Guys, I have a hoarding problem. New stuff doesn't fit into my inventory because of all my wands and potions and booze. I even ditched all but the highest star rated bolts. What are good tips on space management, so I have everything important handy without needing to sneak off to the pocket dimension to rummage through my junk for that coral wand when I need it most?

Do not keep overlapping items in your inventory at the same time. This applies to:
-Booze of similar restoration properties (at most, have Big Booze and Little Booze. One single type of booze that restores a lot, another that restores a little. Change up types if you run out or run low).
-Food of similar restoration properties (same as above)
-Bolts of similar damage properties (if you're running low on a type of bolt, either use all the bolts up or store them away until you have more of them. Keep only one or two types of damage bolts at a time).
-Items with similar or identical effects (stone arrows and stony wands, squid bolts and tentacular wands, etc. Choose one of them, replace with the other one later if you run out).

Get rid of useless potions.
-Health and replenishment potions are good for everyone, keep them. Mana potions are good for people who use significant amounts of mana, and they can keep them.
-Invisibility potions and Spatial Instability potions are good for making getaways. I generally only use the former though.
-Potion of purity removes really bad debuffs, so at lower levels it might be worth it. Otherwise, just keep it in storage.
Beyond that though? I don't think I've used potions much- most of their effects are really quite minor and you can get along fine without them. The rest of them should be either sold, or stored until you find a boss, battle, or level you really need them for (at which point retreat, get it, and come back).

If you're playing a crafting character, keep all crafting stuff in the pocket dimension. Crafting is not something that needs to be done instantly.

[Miscast_Mage]

Speaking of crafting, does anyone know of any guides or sources of info for it? The wikis are horrendously out of date, and everytime I try a crafter(Or diggle-forbid, an omni-crafter!), I get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options and what's good and not-good and what's the best use for particular materials and ackpthglzckl. The closest I've gotten is my current(and favourite) build of:

• Swords
• Dual-wielding
• Piracy
• Burglarly
• Big Game Hunter
• Smithing
• Communism

And even then, I'm not touching Smithing untill later on. Also, what I love about this build? Sword + Dual-wielding + Piracy = ALL THE COUNTERS!

Also, I found a fairly decent guide, that looks recent enough(though sadly it's missing info on the latest expansion, I think). It goes into a lot of detail on the abilities, explains what they do and what they're good for, and is quite handy, in my opinion.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage

Speaking of crafting, does anyone know of any guides or sources of info for it? The wikis are horrendously out of date, and everytime I try a crafter(Or diggle-forbid, an omni-crafter!), I get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options and what's good and not-good and what's the best use for particular materials and ackpthglzckl. The closest I've gotten is my current(and favourite) build of:

For raw information, you want the Dredmorpedia. It scrapes the XML files to generate Lists 'o Stuff, so you can check on, for example, everything available as a Smithing recipe, what it requires to make it, what its end stats are, and whether or not it's a hidden recipe. It doesn't know how to read Encrusts yet, but as far as I know that's the only gap in its information.

For the particular build you have, I would recommend Smithing to 4 before investing heavily in anything else (well, maybe Burglary for Lucky Pick.) That's the level you can make Fine Steel/Iron weapons, as well as the Blue Steel Sword (it's also the requirement level of the Ring of Iron Thorns, but as that's a hidden recipe you can't count on it. If you get it, tho, it's one of the best melee rings.) Getting a couple of those early on will make your life much easier than just about anything else you could get out of those levels, except perhaps maxing out Big Game Hunter and abusing the crud out of the hunting diggles.

[Corlindale]

Speaking of crafting, does anyone know of any guides or sources of info for it? The wikis are horrendously out of date, and everytime I try a crafter(Or diggle-forbid, an omni-crafter!), I get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options and what's good and not-good and what's the best use for particular materials and ackpthglzckl.

I too used to be overwhelmed by crafting - the only way to go is really to try it out. I only started Tinkering because I got it from a random skill roll, but I found it became useful rather quickly. Just remember to check up on your recipes once in a while, and make sure you stick anything that has a remote possibility of becoming useful in the Pocket Dimension. And check all bookcases, obviously.

Iron (and by extension Steel) tend to be among the most useful minerals for both Tinkering and Smithing. Keep an eye out for those, and particularly for bituminous coal and chalk (or black pearls to grind into chalk), which lets you turn iron into steel.

I too would recommend putting points in crafting to start - you will quickly be able to make very potent gear, in all probability, and thus have a much easier time in the early dungeon levels.

[Wookieetank]

Also with Tinkering, it hugely increases your trap disarming ability. If you combo it with perception and burglary, traps become added income and a mild xp boost.

[Miscast_Mage]

I think the problem is that whenever I get the urge to make a crafter, I go all in omni-crafter thinking CRAFT ALL THE THINGS! Also, clinging onto materials untill I get the highest crafting level to get the most out of them; that's a bad habit too, if crafting happens to be my only shtick. >_>

I'm kinda dipping my toes into crafting, pairing it with something that's relevant e.g.

• Smithing with a warrior-type for equipment + the burly bonus
• Tinkering with an archer who can use the bolts
• Alchemy/Fungal Arts with a mage-type for potions/booze/staves
• No clue about Wands specfically; maybe mage-type again for the sagacity bonus?

Also, considering going for an archer type after my swashbuckling communist swordsman; I'm thinking:

• Archery(b'duh)
• Tinkering(for ammo and traps)
• Perception(Apparantly eye beams are all the rage now?)
• Psionics(Seems fairly utilitarian)
• Burglary(it's the new Archeology! )

What else would be worth grabbing? Smithing for more ingots and therefore more bolts? Unarmed for a melee skill to save on bolts(and unarmed, so I can wear two books for extra crossbow damage, also knockback)? Also considering Artful dodger for the "Teleport on dodge" thing.

@TyckSpoon
EEEEEeeeee Up to date information!

Ah, my mentality was first Communism 2, for free healing, Piracy 2, for countering a tough boss, Burglary 2, for free lockpicks, then focus on Dual-weild/Sword to keep building my counter chance first. Then, when I've got lots of mats saved up, then I'll start investing in Smithing.

About equipment though; I still have nearly all starting equipment(wooden sword and sickle), and I took on a monster zoo I found first thing on level two. 100+ counter chance(for 4 turns), yo.

[Corlindale]

Also, considering going for an archer type after my swashbuckling communist swordsman; I'm thinking:

Archery(b'duh)
Tinkering(for ammo and traps)
Perception(Apparantly eye beams are all the rage now?)
Psionics(Seems fairly utilitarian)
Burglary(it's the new Archeology! )

Fun fact: Archery builds don't actually need archery that much. Tinkering is way more useful for getting bolts, and the other bonuses from archery are somewhat minor. The main advantage of archery is that it starts you with crossbow + bolts - but a Tinker can craft those soon enough anyway.

Maybe you could do with some more defensive skills. You could try going for a high-dodge build (perception helps here too). Or 100% block, since you can dual-wield shields with an archer. More teleportation might not hurt either, so Mathemagic could be worth looking into as well.

[Miscast_Mage]

Originally Posted by Corlindale

Fun fact: Archery builds don't actually need archery that much. Tinkering is way more useful for getting bolts, and the other bonuses from archery are somewhat minor. The main advantage of archery is that it starts you with crossbow + bolts - but a Tinker can craft those soon enough anyway.

Maybe you could do with some more defensive skills. You could try going for a high-dodge build (perception helps here too). Or 100% block, since you can dual-wield shields with an archer. More teleportation might not hurt either, so Mathemagic could be worth looking into as well.

Hush! what's an archer without Archery? Also something you didn't note, bolt recovery increases with Archery, so that's something, I guess.

I was thinking Artful dodger and Psionics(for push-away-iness and utility) would cover most of my defensive needs. Dual wielding shields is something I had planned on, though leaning more towards books for extra damage.

Funny enough, I get the feeling that an archer is better off going melee for the first while, or at least soften up at a target range, then melee; the tiny crossbow + wooden bolts barely do more than tickle, and anything above should be held in reserve for tougher enemies.

Also, one thing I remember that bugs me every time I try an archer build; is there a way to tell if your shot is going to be blocked by terrain? It's kinda frustrating shooting a good bolt at something, and then realising it hit the wall in front of them.

[Eurus]

Well my first crafter didn't do so well, died to a nasty set of traps, but this one seems to be having much better luck. Got serpentine boots and gauntlets with filigree, an Asgaardian Stormhammer, and one of those shields whose name I can't recall because I Krong'd it a while back (three armor, ten block, and encrusted with weapons). Shiny steel pants and girdle.

So I'm swinging for 67 damage, with 22 armor absorption + ten piercing. So yeah, I'm pretty happy! Working on maxing out Maces and Shields now. Only on floor 4, so I might start to see significant drop-off later...

[Wookieetank]

My first Omni-Crafter I ever tried, named, what I thought was appropriate, Redshirt, was the first character I was able to get to Floor 6 with. My only 1 real issue with the crafting system in dredmor, is that it adds quite a bit of extra time into your playtime. I'd rather be out smashing things or setting them aflame than digging through my inventory trying to craft the next useful item.

[Eurus]

Hahaha, oh gosh, my pocket dimension is almost entirely filled with crafting ingredients.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage

• No clue about Wands specfically; maybe mage-type again for the sagacity bonus?

Definitely a mage; the levels give mage stats, the starting package of Wands makes for a pretty good low-level survival tool, and while actual crafted wands aren't all that hot (they don't scale hard enough for the easily-made wands to be good past the first few levels and the good wands take too much rare stuff to craft), Wandcraft *Encrusts* are pretty much all awesome.

Also, considering going for an archer type after my swashbuckling communist swordsman; I'm thinking:

What else would be worth grabbing? Smithing for more ingots and therefore more bolts? Unarmed for a melee skill to save on bolts(and unarmed, so I can wear two books for extra crossbow damage, also knockback)? Also considering Artful dodger for the "Teleport on dodge" thing.

Dodger would be good; you have a lot of rogue skills and can get away with wearing the lighter armors, so you can stack up a really high Dodge rate. Adventurer's Aikido is a pretty decent skill as well, although I wouldn't use the random-teleport-on-dodge thing much; in the situations where you most want to get out *now*, you generally don't want to risk being teleported even deeper into a trouble area. (And between Knight's Leap and the Burglary teleport, you should have enough controlled teleports to not have to depend on random blinks.) Smithing would be mostly pointless; one level in Tinkering *or* Smithing is enough to get double ingots from refining ores. Not sure what I would finish this off with, really; Unarmed is pretty much always good.

(Random note: Perception actually isn't there for Eye Beams, those are just a neat reward for finishing the skill. Perception is there for Lucky Find, which single-handedly ensures you have enough crafting materials to make use of your craft selection regardless of what the dungeon throws up for you. The extra sight range is also really handy for a ranged build.)

[AmberVael]

So, my latest character just managed to make two Dwarven Atom Smashers, and has dual-wielding.

I then realized it makes that nasty cloud when it hits, and you take damage from it as well. This is not optimal. Does anyone know precisely what damage it does, so I can work on getting resistance to it? Because I want to be able to use my two atom smashers without killing myself.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by Vael

I then realized it makes that nasty cloud when it hits, and you take damage from it as well. This is not optimal. Does anyone know precisely what damage it does, so I can work on getting resistance to it? Because I want to be able to use my two atom smashers without killing myself.

Fire 1, Toxic 3, Transmute 5, Aethereal 2. Fire and Toxic should be reasonably easy to defend against, I don't know of any easy ways to get Transmutative resist. Good luck!

Edit: The Helm of the Golden God and the Crown of Yellow have Transmute resist, and the Cloak of Sagan has Transmute and Aethereal. It's not ideal- that's mostly mage gear, and I assume you're probably doing a warrior if you have double Atom Smashers- but it'll cover the worst of the damage from those unless you get lucky with a Timelord Scarf or Windows amulet that has the correct resistance rolls.. if you have Archeology, I'd probably grab a Scarf and Translation it until it gets what you need.

Double Edit: There's a point of Transmute resist on the last point in Smith (which also covers the Conflagratory), Ancestral Body Paint has some, and the last point of Communism offers 3. So, if you wanted to build entirely around eventually wielding Atom Smashers, Smith + Berserk + Communism would leave only the Toxic and Aethereal to deal with while being a fairly sound core for a warrior.

Triple Edit: Last alternative would be to just get a crapload of Magic Resist; field effects are generally treated as magical attacks, so if you get high enough Resist you can just tank your way through it that way.

[IncoherentEssay]

Sassy Banding (a belt/armor encrust at Smithing 4) would do it, 5 Transmutative & 5 Aethereal resistance. Though it requires a Sash of the Blue Wizards and a Time Lord Scarf, so might be a bit troublesome to get.

[tyckspoon]

^that. Forgot about that. Yeah, that'd be the best solution if you manage to find the belt; Time Lord Scarfs are relatively common in the deeper dungeon, but the Sash is obnoxiously rare.

[Eurus]

Hah. I decided to get cocky, and charged Diggle Hell. Made it through, found a few neat artifacts (including Schrat's Helm, and an Axe of the Solar Disc. 55 damage. The hell?) but didn't find a boss, which was disappointing. Then I googled it. Turns out I was pretty lucky to not find the boss, since Vlad Digula almost certainly would have one-shotted me. Maybe I'll come back... much later. Still, I'm proud of having butchered all those enormous diggle demons.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by Eurus

(including Schrat's Helm, and an Axe of the Solar Disc. 55 damage. The hell?) but didn't find a boss, which was disappointing.

It also sets things on fire. It's a pretty good candidate for best weapon in the game; the other major contender would be the Emerald Sword, which has a composite damage of 50, part of which is Radiant like the Axe. No innate proc and lower base damage, but it does have some useful resists and it's Artifact Quality 10, which means it should get a pretty hefty pile of bonuses if you throw one on a Krong anvil (the Axe, in comparison, has no Artifact Quality at all, and so will get the same bonuses any other random weapon would.) Basically you found one of the level 11+ weapons that are meant to give melee characters enough damage output to actually have a chance in the Diggle Gods floors.

[Eurus]

Interesting. This is also, funnily enough, the third set of Ulmish Blacksteel I've found, pre-floor-8. I feel rather disappointed. I'm not sure it's possible to go up from here.

[tyckspoon]

Weapons and torso armor are pretty common, IME. It's harder to find really good stuff for the other slots; rings and neck, in particular, it's possible to go through the entire game without getting a particularly useful one. Also, yes, you should be glad you didn't run into Vlad. He's *rough*.

[Flickerdart]

Wait, artifact whatnow? Putting artifacts on Krong altars gives you better bonuses than using vanilla items?

[The Succubus]

I know what I want for Christmas.