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I've never actually walked out of a session before today. started with a new group and dm that was running a gestalt game (i already expected shenanigans). the dm has little dm experience and was relying on another player who had "been playing this for close to forever."
so far, what ive picked up as far as their understanding of the rules.
1. bonuses of the same type stack as long as they come from different sources, except enhancement bonuses.
evidenced by the psion putting inertial armor over his full plate, and stacking.
2. the amount of attacks your BAB bonus allows is your number of standard actions per round, yes even for spellcasters. i dont even know how they came to that conclusion
3. encountered wooden doors that were booby trapped with fireballs when opened but only blasted the outside of the door, when opened from either side. (in a monk monestary, mind you. he was making it up as he went along)
4. no psi-mag transparency, but if theres a feat thats for magic with no psionic equivalent, it works for psionics (dont really care about this, but still it seems really dumb)
5. tried to tell me precise shot doesnt work for eldritch blast...im actually serious.
6. we're level 12, the phrenic grey elf erudite/warmage has an intelligence of 38 and a charisma of 26, someone explain plz
regardless i quit the game, there was so much dumb, i could not brain
please somebody tell me theyve had a worse experience than this
Last edited by roarinflames : 10-28-2012 at 08:56 PM.
Although my brother won't DM for our group anymore because he railroads everyone so hard we just try to subvert everything he tries to make us do. In one of his games, he decided that all elves were from "the mystic isles" and almost never left, and they were super powerful and awesome. His DMPC, naturally an elf, wore an ostentatious wizard hat to conceal his ears, so my CG swashbuckler and another party member stole his hat and played keepaway with it. Then he got mad and tapped me on the head with his staff, which as a level 2 wizard, was evidently sufficient to melt my mouth shut like Agent Smith.
dm malarkey. its so bad with new dm's, i just couldnt believe how bad it was. i understand dm has final ruling and all, but that was just so absurd.
on top of this, the dm was pressuring me to be a melee pc, i compromised with warlocks hideous blow, but even still. also, he wrote my character a backstory. i can write my own backstory, i dont need help.
i took a sense of honor when he mentioned the BAB standard action bs, by telling him that since i didnt feel thats how the rules are written, my character would not take advantage of that.
yeah the DMPC was the ubermensch of fighters as well.
i actually feel like ive been trolled into making a gestalt character. what a waste of time
2. the amount of attacks your BAB bonus allows is your number of standard actions per round, yes even for spellcasters. i dont even know how they came to that conclusion
I...I actually...I don't know. This almost sounds like a good idea...Might be worth testing...
Everything else? Garbage. You couldn't possibly have run out of there fast enough. Nothing rankles like having a character taken away from a player like this guy tried.
............ I don't even........ what?........ how did..........
That is the single worst case of reading comprehension fail I have ever seen. Maybe all those primary school programs focused on reading comp are necessary after all.
Just..... wow. I am very nearly rendered speechless by that. I'll try to post something more productive after I've had a little while to process that.
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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell
Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
i tested it, its bad. take my word for it. i had 2 maenads use sonic rays followed by multiple arrow shots from each, and they could follow me wherever, and then cast swift action powers.
it wasnt fun, it was dmrape, a blackbolt you might say.
i tested it, its bad. take my word for it. i had 2 maenads use sonic rays followed by multiple arrow shots from each, and they could follow me wherever, and then cast swift action powers.
it wasnt fun, it was dmrape, a blackbolt you might say.
Yeah, that sounds like suck. Maybe if Fighter's could exchange iterative attacks for standard actions it might be an interesting balance, but as you've put it it's just DMrape.
it doesnt matter how optimized you are, unless you follow their rules of stacking, the only thing that can survive is punpun, or like a quadriped half-dragon hulking hurler. it was really just .... so bad....my brain is hurting so much from the stupid. and even when i showed them where it said different in the books, theyd say i was misinterpreting it. ive made pc builds for the dm quite a few times before, i wonder whos got the better grasp of the rules?? prob him haha
Last edited by roarinflames : 10-28-2012 at 09:33 PM.
Thankfully, I can't say as I've ever run into anything quite that bad. A railroady DM here, a munchkin or two there, but nothing even close to that.
On the bright side, you may have had the worst D&D experience that didn't end in violence or police presence ever. (Tongue firmly in cheek here. I'm sure there's been worse, but that is bad.)
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I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell
Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
Thankfully, I can't say as I've ever run into anything quite that bad. A railroady DM here, a munchkin or two there, but nothing even close to that.
On the bright side, you may have had the worst D&D experience that didn't end in violence or police presence ever. (Tongue firmly in cheek here. I'm sure there's been worse, but that is bad.)
no kidding, im surprised i didnt strangle the guy playing the erudite for influencing the dm
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Originally Posted by Dr.Epic
Do rules of alignment count?: "I'm chaotic (neutral) so I can sometimes act evil and kill whoever."
i didnt even get that far, i quit after about 4 hours of their shenanigans. i have the patience of a rock apparently.
i do know the dm railroaded everyone to only be neutral on the GvE scale.
whatever, a toddler can rp CN
Maybe if Fighter's could exchange iterative attacks for standard actions it might be an interesting balance, but as you've put it it's just DMrape.
Maybe you could open it to all classes, but only allow move actions or standard actions that aren't spellcasting, psionics, SLAs, or supernatural abilities.
Maybe you could open it to all classes, but only allow move actions or standard actions that aren't spellcasting, psionics, SLAs, or supernatural abilities.
please somebody tell me theyve had a worse experience than this
My GM once had me and two other players argue the interpretations of one bit of text.
For two hours straight.
Despite our numerous efforts spent pointing out reasons to do otherwise, he ended up choosing his interpretation, i.e., the one that screwed us over most.
Oh, and then there was the time in which we had an encounter with one of the imprisoned titans finding himself free; said titan stopped time and taunted us, individually. For about thirty minutes of game-time.
Still, not the worst session anyone's had, ever; one of our fellow playgrounders literally had his DM go psycho on him during a session. I don't particularly feel like looking it up, but you can probably find it with a search.
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Hm. The worst I've had, as far as I can remember, was my very first game of D&D. Only the DM had ever played before, but she'd only played in one really heavily houseruled game. Trouble was, she didn't know what was houserules and what was RAW and assume it was all the latter. The main one I can recall is that "Clerics don't wear armour because they believe their god will take care of them". Not a terrible houserule (although shouldn't they then get some compensation, like Wis toAC or something?), but she thought it was an official rule.
My GM once had me and two other players argue the interpretations of one bit of text.
For two hours straight.
Despite our numerous efforts spent pointing out reasons to do otherwise, he ended up choosing his interpretation, i.e., the one that screwed us over most.
Oh, and then there was the time in which we had an encounter with one of the imprisoned titans finding himself free; said titan stopped time and taunted us, individually. For about thirty minutes of game-time.
the world is a terrifying place to game in. think im gonna just take a break for a while.
unless anybody knows how to optimize to their weird rulings to show the dm why its wrong, i dont have the motivation to fully plan up another gestalt build
the world is a terrifying place to game in. think im gonna just take a break for a while.
unless anybody knows how to optimize to their weird rulings to show the dm why its wrong, i dont have the motivation to fully plan up another gestalt build
Pretty sure it would take far too much effort to have a reasonable chance of convincing them. Just let it go, and don't go back there.
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Originally Posted by Water_Bear
That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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Originally Posted by hamishspence
"Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid"
I often hop into threads for just one thing
unless anybody knows how to optimize to their weird rulings to show the dm why its wrong, i dont have the motivation to fully plan up another gestalt build
Doesn't work if the DM is sufficiently incompetent. If he's bad enough, all it'll do is create cognitive dissonance, which he'll resolve by calling you a munchkin and banning everything you mention for two weeks.
I'll post a partial version of my former-DM's horrible misunderstanding houserules list. They usually started as misunderstandings, which the DM declared to be houserules once I mention that they aren't RAW.
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[Redacted]'s Stupid Houserules compilation
Vitals Con damage doesn't cause HP loss (so ruled on the spot because [redacted]'s Sorcerer would have died otherwise)
Skills Max ranks= 2*level, all skills are class skills for everyone. Yes, even Handle Humanoid, Iaijutsu Focus, and Lucid Dreaming. Nat1 is usually auto-fail, 20 is auto-success. Depends on how [the DM]’s feeling.
Crits Crit-range increases stack (abused only by NPCs who run around with 12-20 crit ranges, because the players aren't shameless munchkins) Crits auto-confirm (again, only abused by NPCs)
Armor
Silk Weavings stack with Chain Shirt.
Combat Reflexes allows you to made [Dex Mod] number of AoOs... for the same provocation. It doesn't affect the total number you can make in one round.
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Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy
By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.
Last edited by Slipperychicken : 10-28-2012 at 10:17 PM.
Actually, having crit ranges stack by itself might not be so bad especially on higher levels as a way of helping keep melee relevant. I do agree that doing this with auto-confirm would be ridiculous.
2. the amount of attacks your BAB bonus allows is your number of standard actions per round, yes even for spellcasters. i dont even know how they came to that conclusion
I've actually seen someone try this before, something to do with the Invisibility spell's definition of an attack. It requires you to completely ignore the line, "For purposes of this spell," and impose that definition on the rules on making a full attack. It's completely silly, and luckily I was able to convincingly argue against it at the time.
In Spycraft the system is too complex to allow for anyone to interpret the rules correctly. Does fire damage also cause heat damage? How does full auto work? It is all just a mess and no one in my group understands it.
In 4e I had players think that the Reflex defense was a modifier for a saving throw. And since they all ganged up on me I had no say in the matter.
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Honestly its not the rules changes that are hard for me to deal with. Really, any set of rules, as long as they are consistent and known to the players, can be managed. Some are just harder to play with than others.
What bugs me most is when DMs hijack characters. If a DM wants me to play a pre-written character, then let me know before I join the game so I can choose whether I want to play under those terms. But don't give me the ability to create my own character and then change it once the game has begun.
I had a DM who changed my entire character - race, class and everything - by fiat. Oh, it was supposed to be the result of some magical effect - something that happened in-game. But there was no warning, no chance to see it coming and avoid it, not even a saving throw. In fact, this was considered the reward for defeating an encounter. I wasn't the only one in the party to receive such a reward either.
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I had a DM once who interpreted the Monk's Flurry of Blows ability to mean that the Monk gained a number of extra attacks equal to the Monk's BAB, as listed on the Flurry of Blows column. A 20th level Monk is supposed to make five attacks at +15/+15/+15/+10/+5. He interpreted it to mean that the Monk gets forty-five attacks with a +15 bonus, then ten attacks with a +10 bonus, then five attacks with a +5 bonus, for a whopping sixty attacks per round.
I don't even understand how he thought his interpretation worked at levels one to three.
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Doesn't work if the DM is sufficiently incompetent. If he's bad enough, all it'll do is create cognitive dissonance, which he'll resolve by calling you a munchkin and banning everything you mention for two weeks.
I'll post a partial version of my former-DM's horrible misunderstanding houserules list. They usually started as misunderstandings, which the DM declared to be houserules once I mention that they aren't RAW.
yeah my previous group didnt know that skills werent autofail/success on 1/20 rolls. i was the one to point it out for them and they promptly fixed it.
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Originally Posted by The Random NPC
To be fair, some types of bonuses do stack, and some only stack when the sources are different, namely dodge and circumstance.
i did try to make this point, they just didn't believe me. at that point, i told them i was out, couldnt handle the rule differences.
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Originally Posted by JoshuaZ
Actually, having crit ranges stack by itself might not be so bad especially on higher levels as a way of helping keep melee relevant. I do agree that doing this with auto-confirm would be ridiculous.
my old group did auto-confirm, didnt stack crit range tho. never saw too much of a problem, seemed to hurt the pc's more than baddies tho, but rounds circulated quicker. tends to keep players interested too if they have a few more opportunities to brain something
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Originally Posted by BowStreetRunner
Honestly its not the rules changes that are hard for me to deal with. Really, any set of rules, as long as they are consistent and known to the players, can be managed. Some are just harder to play with than others.
What bugs me most is when DMs hijack characters. If a DM wants me to play a pre-written character, then let me know before I join the game so I can choose whether I want to play under those terms. But don't give me the ability to create my own character and then change it once the game has begun.
I had a DM who changed my entire character - race, class and everything - by fiat. Oh, it was supposed to be the result of some magical effect - something that happened in-game. But there was no warning, no chance to see it coming and avoid it, not even a saving throw. In fact, this was considered the reward for defeating an encounter. I wasn't the only one in the party to receive such a reward either.
yeah dm character hijack is really not okay without player approval, typically im fine if they need it to get me into the party, but i would still like a heads up so i can at least try and cater the character to their's and my needs.
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Originally Posted by VGLordR2
I had a DM once who interpreted the Monk's Flurry of Blows ability to mean that the Monk gained a number of extra attacks equal to the Monk's BAB, as listed on the Flurry of Blows column. A 20th level Monk is supposed to make five attacks at +15/+15/+15/+10/+5. He interpreted it to mean that the Monk gets forty-five attacks with a +15 bonus, then ten attacks with a +10 bonus, then five attacks with a +5 bonus, for a whopping sixty attacks per round.
I don't even understand how he thought his interpretation worked at levels one to three.
thats pretty much how i felt when they mentioned the standard action bs, saying i can use eldritch blast (hellfire) 3 times and move, and take a swift/immediate.
i was like, ...um no
He interpreted it to mean that the Monk gets forty-five attacks with a +15 bonus, then ten attacks with a +10 bonus, then five attacks with a +5 bonus, for a whopping sixty attacks per round.
With that many attacks, the monk may actually hit a few times. Statistically three 20's should come up...
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"remember: no matter where you go... there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
I had a DM once who interpreted the Monk's Flurry of Blows ability to mean that the Monk gained a number of extra attacks equal to the Monk's BAB, as listed on the Flurry of Blows column. A 20th level Monk is supposed to make five attacks at +15/+15/+15/+10/+5. He interpreted it to mean that the Monk gets forty-five attacks with a +15 bonus, then ten attacks with a +10 bonus, then five attacks with a +5 bonus, for a whopping sixty attacks per round.
I don't even understand how he thought his interpretation worked at levels one to three.
I would LOVE to see that in real life. That's ten swings per second!
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