#3: Here's one I can agree with wholeheartedly. The increasing number of "Order 66 Survivors" - largely invalidating a central premise of the OT - was one of the first things to start turning me off of the EU. However. We're talking about a setting with a million+ inhabited worlds; rebuilding the Jedi Order post-RotJ by finding a limited number of untrained Force-sensitives out of such a crowd doesn't seem unreasonable (and was one of the few good points in the otherwise-lackluster Jedi Academy trilogy).
One of the things I liked most about EU force users is that to a lot of them, order 66 wasn't entirely a bad thing. I mean yeah, they might have to hide, but they hid from Jedi a lot anyway and weren't large enough to warrant lots of attention compared to hunting survivors.
The idea that the Jedi and their branches suddenly stopped them from needing to give up their best and brightest children would be a huge boon to most. I mean the emperor or Vader or some would-be sith might snatch one or two here and there but it strikes me as an ideal set of conditions for the lesser mystics and nearly extinct orders to thrive in. Both Luke and the Empire both made at least occasional use of random mystics and tiny sects once in a while, so they exist if nothing else.
A live action X-Wing squadron series would be freaking awesome. Hell they could turn the novels into a show.
Edit.
There already was a live action star wars show in the works. Does any one know what became of that? Is it still in the works or has it been axed?
I believe a podcast from Threat Detected entitled "Wish upon a star in a galaxy far away" actually mentioned this being In Hollywood Hell and even claimed they had got as far as trying to get producers or writers for episodes.
And yes they could especially if they left in the bit about an Ewok pilot!
The cracked article makes a poor case against Sequels in general, but a great case for why the sequel should be a new story with the EU pushed under a train, really.
The cracked article makes a poor case against Sequels in general, but a great case for why the sequel should be a new story with the EU pushed under a train, really.
Or at least the EU that isn't Timothy Zahn novels, although sadly his are the ones that got Jossed the hardest by the prequels.
X-Wing could also still work if you completely rewrote all the dialog, and has the bonus of being largely about how the Rebellion went about securing governance of the Galaxy after the Emperor cacked it.
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The cracked article makes a poor case against Sequels in general, but a great case for why the sequel should be a new story with the EU pushed under a train, really.
Thats kind of my point.
My only problem with the sequels is that they are indeed still effected by the prequels.
The only EU they can't push under a bus is the worst EU itself. The Prequels.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
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Personally, I think the prequel movies progressively got better, though the first was rather boring and the race served no purpose other than saying "this kid is good at racing and building stuff", which never really came up again in the movies unless you look at it from a very specific angle.
The main argument I hear from people who like the original trilogy far better is either because of the addition of midichlorians, or simply because "it's not the original trilogy".
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so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
Episode I was godawful; aside from the Darth Maul stuff, there's nothing of redeeming value in it. Jar-Jar and the rest of the Gungans were insufferable. The Trade Federation was impossible to take seriously as villains. Except for Qui-Gon and Palpatine/Darth Sidious, every main character was completely obnoxious, Anakin being the worst offender. The political subplot was garbage. The Pod Race. Really, there was little to like.
Episodes II and III improved on that; less Jar-Jar, more things people actually care about. Unfortunately the bad writing, bad acting, and generally bad logic of Episode I remained and really sucked a lot of the potential out of them. That and the Battle Droids started talking for no reason, General Grevious and Dooku getting punked out, the anti-climactic fight scenes, and a dozen other complaints.
Personally, I could have lived with all of that; I'm an Alien fan so I'm used to really soul-incineratingly bad sequels. What killed the Prequels for me was that they differed so much stylistically that it made it hard to see them as being in the same universe as the original trilogy. In the original trilogy, every ship and land vehicle had some kind of pitting or burning on their hulls, non-uniform clothing and animal's hides looked filthy, metal was rusted and worn; it looked like a living world. The Prequels are all shiny chrome and bright primary colors, and it never clicked as Star Wars to me.
Of course, none of that means you shouldn't enjoy them. I really wish I could, so it's hardly fair to deny that to anyone else.
Last edited by Water_Bear : 11-04-2012 at 06:42 PM.
The only real problem with the prequels is that they had an entirely different set of thematic assumptions to them. This is why there is such a disconnect with the original trilogy, why they seem to contradict it at so many points and so on.
There are plenty of smaller problems of course, but compared to fundamentally changing the nature of the Jedi, they are pretty small ones.
What killed the Prequels for me was that they differed so much stylistically that it made it hard to see them as being in the same universe as the original trilogy. In the original trilogy, every ship and land vehicle had some kind of pitting or burning on their hulls, non-uniform clothing and animal's hides looked filthy, metal was rusted and worn; it looked like a living world. The Prequels are all shiny chrome and bright primary colors, and it never clicked as Star Wars to me.
Most of the OT was set on the edges of civilization among groups (smugglers, farmers, hidden rebel outposts) that generally had little care for form, relying on function. Exceptions to that group are quite close to the PT aesthetically. The Imperial ships are militarily clean and uniform, while the Tantive IV at the start of the original film epitomized the bright primary colors and pristine condition that characterized the PT (at least, before it was shot up).
Most of the OT was set on the edges of civilization among groups (smugglers, farmers, hidden rebel outposts) that generally had little care for form, relying on function. Exceptions to that group are quite close to the PT aesthetically. The Imperial ships are militarily clean and uniform, while the Tantive IV at the start of the original film epitomized the bright primary colors and pristine condition that characterized the PT (at least, before it was shot up).
Have you seen a Star Destroyer? Those things are pretty grungy and grey; they don't look anything like the porcelain-and-chrome space toilets the Grand Army of the Republic was flying around. The AT-ATs, Storm Trooper armor, the guns, they all looked like they'd been kicked around in the sand for years before they ever came on screen.
Compare the Tantive IV you mentioned, a ship belonging to the royal family of one of the most influential Core worlds other than Corcusant itself, with the Naboo Cruiser which is supposed to come from an insignificant backwater. The Prequels are just a lot cleaner and shinier period, which really doesn't jive with the "last days of the republic" feel they were going for.
Have you seen a Star Destroyer? Those things are pretty grungy and grey; they don't look anything like the porcelain-and-chrome space toilets the Grand Army of the Republic was flying around. The AT-ATs, Storm Trooper armor, the guns, they all looked like they'd been kicked around in the sand for years before they ever came on screen.
Compare the Tantive IV you mentioned, a ship belonging to the royal family of one of the most influential Core worlds other than Corcusant itself, with the Naboo Cruiser which is supposed to come from an insignificant backwater. The Prequels are just a lot cleaner and shinier period, which really doesn't jive with the "last days of the republic" feel they were going for.
Why? When you have hundreds of years of peace, you can afford to prioritize style over substance. Likely, the Clone Wars and the military build-up of the early Empire spurred technological innovation, and manufacturers rushed to incorporate the new technology in later designs. This quick incorporation of new technology into new designs likely sacrificed style in the name of functionality.
Plus, the Tantive IV was a Corellian-built ship. Unlike the Naboo, the Corellians do not seem to place a high emphasis on aesthetics in ship building (e.g., the YT-1300)
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
Largely because the OT has a fairly simple, completely coherent theme that carries throughout the series, and the story is completely consonant with that theme. In the prequels, Lucas continually makes story choices that muddle the theme and complicate the story to no good effect.
If you will allow me two quick examples, look first at the scene that introduces us to Luke Skywalker. Everyone knows and remembers the scene: it's the binary sunset scene. It's 30 seconds long, it contains no special effects beyond a double exposure and it has no dialog. And yet it tells us everything we need to know about Luke. He's a farmer's son who longs for adventure. That basic piece of information informs everything else you need to know about Luke in the film and serves as the foundation upon which the character grows. It's an absolutely magnificent little bit of cinema.
Now let's look at . . . well, I'm going to say a character-establishing moment from Attack of the Clones, which is the movie where we first meet the adult Anakin Skywalker. I use the singular because unlike the original trilogy, there is no clear moment that really defines the guy, and while this comes the closest, it does so in ways that completely undermine the story.
In George Lucas' own words, the prequel trilogy is a story about Anakin Skywalker's fall from grace. That's the theme of the trilogy. Well, when you watch this scene, you have to ask yourself one question: what grace would that be, exactly? When your protagonist announces that he's just butchered an entire village of people, innocent and guilty alike, that's not saying he's "too emotional" or that he has attachment issues. It's saying he's psychotic. I can guarantee you that, despite the fact that I love my brother more than life itself, I would not set about massacring the entire population of the city he lives in if he was kidnapped and killed. So right off the bat, in the first movie we meet our hero as a protagonist, we've already established that he's perfectly fine doing morally appalling things before he falls from grace. Which then consistently undercuts his later fall, because when I look at him kill younglings in the temple, I remember this moment from this movie and say, "wait, now we're supposed to have a problem with butchering innocent children?"
That's just one example, but it really informs the entire prequel trilogy. In a nutshell, Lucas has a story he wants to tell about a good man named Anakin who turns into a really bad guy named Darth Vader. That's a pretty simple story, and in theory it should be easy to see what pieces of the story go in and what should be left out based on how well it fits with that story. But all along the course of the prequel trilogy, Lucas keeps cluttering his film with stuff that is either completely irrelevant to that story or, as in the case of exterminating an entire village of Sand People, is outright counterproductive to that story.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
Because it was a completely horrific piece of film making. Not just because it undermined the original movies but because they where a messy piece of crap.
The Plinkett review, ok deconstruction is one of the best explanations of why they suck. Just get past the dark humor set up of the videos and you will see real argument he is saying.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
Episode I was racist with alien stand-ins for offensive stereotypes of black (Jar-Jar), Jewish (Wazoo...Wato..flying greedy guy with big nose) and Chinesse (Trade Federation).
Episode II and III suffer from the fact that the actors of Padme and Anakin cannot sell the chemistry and romance, their entire body language speaks something completely different from what their dialogues says, making scenes with them very creepy.
Episode II and III suffer from the fact that the actors of Padme and Anakin cannot sell the chemistry and romance, their entire body language speaks something completely different from what their dialogues says, making scenes with them very creepy.
Almost as bad as Twilight... almost.
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Originally Posted by golentan
What Yuki said.
Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*
*You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.
Let's face it, the only thing good about the prequels were the lightsaber duels and space battles.
And the only difference between the prequels and OT is that the OT had Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in a chainmail bikini (when she was skinny). I bet if Natalie Portman was in a chainmail bikini, people wouldn't complain so much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golentan
What Yuki said.
Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*
*You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
I think Cracked had it right: Episode IV to VI was Lucas taking elements from all the movies he loved as a kid, and it became the Star Wars movies.
When he set out to write the prequels, he tried to write three Star Wars movies, using the originals as reference instead. This made it feel like he wast "painting by numbers" rather than actually taking the process seriously.
On top of that it is the combination of the racist stereotypes, the pandering to kids (with said stereotypes) and the complete lack of chemistry and the thick, THICK layer of Ham ("NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO").
To top it off, a lot of people resent the prequels because of the stupid changes they caused to the original trilogy (like the replacement of Darth's ghost, and the whole tribal dance sequence that got replaced by the "cheering crowds all over the city planet" crap.
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Last edited by Avilan the Grey : 11-05-2012 at 05:26 AM.
so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
My problem stems from the fact this could have been so easily dealt with but they went and ignored what information had been mentioned before just out of some kind of spiteful gesture to something that would have been a great successor to the original star wars movies (ie Thrawn).
Let's face it, the only thing good about the prequels were the lightsaber duels and space battles.
And the only difference between the prequels and OT is that the OT had Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in a chainmail bikini (when she was skinny). I bet if Natalie Portman was in a chainmail bikini, people wouldn't complain so much.
Hopefully they don't compromise and put Carrie Fisher back in a chainmail bikini.
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Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
Are you sure? IMDb says nothing about it, and this is the first I've heard of it. There's a second actor credited with voicing Wedge in parts where he's heard over a communicator rather than seen in his cockpit, but his name is David Ankrum.
Wookieepedia goes into some detail on the subject- at the bottom of the Wedge Antilles article. It's pretty obvious that they are two different actors.
Meh, I think the PT hate tends to be extremely exaggerated and out of proportion. It's just a matter of knowing that it's not the same kind of movie and adjusting your expectations accordingly: You watch the OT for the story and characters, and the PT for the lightsaber duels and huge battles.
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That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with the Transformers movies either. You have to watch them for CG robots and product placements and not trivial things like plot, characters, dialogue, or acting.
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