Necrons vs Daleks

[shadow_archmagi]

IN ONE CORNER, we have everyone's favorite omnicidal androids from the far future, armed with incredibly advanced technology and a will to destroy everything and everyone that isn't them.

In the other corner, everyone's favorite omnicidal cyborgs from the far future, armed with incredibly advanced technology and a will to destroy everything and everyone that isn't them.

The setting: Some Daleks, due to an emergency teleport, find themselves stranded in a distance corner of the galaxy. They begin rebuilding their empire just as a collection of nearby Tomb Worlds begin to awaken. The two immediately go to war, because that's their nature.

For the purposes of the thread, we'll assume that the Necrons have anti time-travel tech (Which they may very well, given the nature of the things), negating that particular advantage.

TRAITS COMMON TO BOTH SIDES:
Futuristic, durable armor
High powered disintegration weaponry
Technology that tends to work more like magic
Completely insane

TRAITS UNIQUE TO NECRONS:
Extremely good self-repair systems

Automatically teleport back to base when severely damaged

Lower-ranking soldiers are completely mindless

Wide variety of unit types, ranging from mind-control robot scarabs to giant hovering monoliths

Wide array of ancient and incredibly powerful pieces of tech scattered across galaxy

TRAITS UNIQUE TO DALEKS:
Incredible INT scores on everyone, meaning even the lowest-ranking footsoldier has evil-genius potential.

Can (and do) clone new Daleks at a rapid rate.

Daleks can develop new technologies very quickly.

Entire army can fly freely.

[Tiki Snakes]

Given the limitations in the OP, the Necrons probably have this one. Which is to say, if the Dalek go in heavy and soon, the Necrons should be able to whittle the Dalek down enough to force them to escape the situation, fleeing in time and/or space.

Victory to the Necron by default.

However, the Dalek advantage is in the mid to long game. They are quite capable of building up however many forces they need from all but nothing. Once they get to the point of being an actual Imperial Force they will steamroller the Necron simply due to their superior focus. They are significantly more monolithic, and will tend to work together as a single implacable force where the new style Necrons can't be assumed to work together automatically. If anything is going to force them to, a sizeable Dalek force intent on Exterminating every last Necron might do it though, presumably, which leaves the deciding factor coming down to which side can more easily replace it's losses.

Which I assume to be the Dalek, from what I know.

So, providing the Dalek either break the rule in the OP about immediately going to war or hold back enough forces to continue building up despite their initial strike-force failing, eventual Last Monster Standing goes to the New Dalek Empire.

[The Glyphstone]

Don't forget the Necrons also have enslaved demigods at their beck and call, each of whom can order the laws of physics to sit down and shut up in unique and interesting ways, and they've got a lot of them, if scattered and somewhat untrustworthy. They can be brought down individually, but it'll cost a lot of Daleks to do it.

Considering the sheer carnage that's going to happen, it's not so much who has the better loss replenishment so much as who's got the higher kill/loss ratio. If the Necrons can, with their SCIENCE!!, C'tan Shards, and significantly higher proficiency at point-blank/melee (Warscythe > Toilet Plunger, with teleportation abilities to close the distance), outstrip the Dalek's individual tactical superiority, unit cohesion, and replenishment rate to kill them faster than they can rebuild, attrition means the Daleks will lose out in the end. But that's a whole lot of variables we have to guess on.

[Tiki Snakes]

Well, thing is if even a tiny handful of daleks survive the can rebuild and pretty much always do. Whereas aren't there basically a finite number of necron? The C'Tan shards are a huge potential advantage, but if every dead necron is one less they'll ever have to deal with, it's pretty much a done deal.

Assuming they don't commit too much too soon, because if no daleks survive that's it, game over.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes

Well, thing is if even a tiny handful of daleks survive the can rebuild and pretty much always do. Whereas aren't there basically a finite number of necron? The C'Tan shards are a huge potential advantage, but if every dead necron is one less they'll ever have to deal with, it's pretty much a done deal.

Assuming they don't commit too much too soon, because if no daleks survive that's it, game over.

Doesn't that also assume the Necrons won't counter-attack and go Dalek Hunting? If the Daleks are allowed to rebuild their forces indefinitely, they'll definitely win, but Daleks fleeing from Necron assault forces are Daleks not quietly building up to another attack.

[Tiki Snakes]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Doesn't that also assume the Necrons won't counter-attack and go Dalek Hunting? If the Daleks are allowed to rebuild their forces indefinitely, they'll definitely win, but Daleks fleeing from Necron assault forces are Daleks not quietly building up to another attack.

That's where the Necron's fractured state/society holds them back. They'd need to hunt them down, ruthlessly and across the entire universe. But with most necron worlds not working together, they'll lack the logistical support to really do that.
(And this of course is assuming the Daleks abide by OP terms and conditions and don't simply cheat by, I don't know, putting a planet out of phase with the rest of the universe and hiding in between moments for as long as they fancy, stolen earth style or something. Conversely, if the necrons end up on the wrong foot, there won't be any hiding places as the Daleks will not, by that point, lack the logistics to do what is needed.
No, I think that if it's allowed to turn into a drawn out affair, the chances of the Daleks losing diminishes pretty steadily. With their greater variety of ground forces and their devastating weapons tech, the Necrons have the advantage as long as they can force a conclusion on their terms and their timescale.

[The Glyphstone]

Necrons can also cheat by hiding in hyperspace and pocket dimensions, places the Daleks can't access. Though if it's 'united Dalek Empire vs. individual Necron Dynasties', the Necrons will eventually be ground out of existence by raw attrition.

[Tiki Snakes]

I generally agree with that. Though, all things considered, the Daleks ability to figure out Pocket Dimensions and Hyperspace is not to be underestimated.

Hell, depending on the Daleks, they may very well have escaped from a few in their time.

[The Glyphstone]

I wouldn't necessarily rule out the Necrons finding a way to crack the out-of-phase thing, though - they've got limited chronotech of their own, and the terms of the battle give them anti-time travel technology which the out-of-time-phase seems to be partially based on.

I think there's just too many unanswerable variables here to choose a definitive winner, though I want to tentatively give the Necrons a slight edge. Dalek gunsticks/blaster beams don't - if the source I read is accurate - inflict total disintegration, and it generally takes full-body instant annihilation to prevent a Necron from teleporting to safety and being repaired, so the Necrons finite numbers are effectively multiplied significantly, possibly near-infinitely, by the difficulty Daleks will have in permanently removing them from action. Plus, even the Daleks presumably need resources of some kind to replenish their forces, which puts an indeterminate finite (if effectively arbitrarily large) cap on their maximum troop pool too.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Necrons can also cheat by hiding in hyperspace and pocket dimensions, places the Daleks can't access. Though if it's 'united Dalek Empire vs. individual Necron Dynasties', the Necrons will eventually be ground out of existence by raw attrition.

For the purposes of the thread, all the necrons in this corner of the galaxy are from the same dynasty.


I feel like the Dalek's superior range and accuracy is definitely worth noting- In Victory of the Daleks, their ordinary phaser is used as an anti-aircraft weapon.

[The Glyphstone]

Okay, if the Necrons have their internal infighting and conflicts removed, that makes them a vastly more formidable opponent than they would be otherwise.

[Zahhak]

I've never heard of the Necron, but if they are able to go up stairs, or into rocky areas, or really any place that isn't a city with well maintained roads, sidewalks, and elevators, the Necron win.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I find it highly unrealistic that a civilization that had to pirate another race's FTL system has anti-time travel capability. I choose to instead blame it on the inverse space wedgie tripling the polarity of the neutron flow creating interference too great to exit time.

Anyways as their first and probably least crazy op'ed action the Daleks say... release a nanogene cloud to convert any Necrons nearby into Dalek slaves while if they feel the need to use a planet they armor it with a planetary force field capable of surviving their own standards for Exterminate-tus, which doesn't settle for being merely uninhabitable like the Imperium. While also teleporting onto a Necron vessel to plunger a couple of control panels accessing them and getting a complete analysis of Necrons tech, so if usual levels of invulnerability are insufficient they will just make the upgrades soon enough.

Just to put in perspective the Daleks fought on equal terms with race who's comically obsolete technology is capable of towing planet Earth across the universe without killing everyone living on the planet. And the Daleks matched them so completely reality broke and became a mockery of existence so bad the other side decided it was better to ragequit and turn off existence. And after that they not only survived but decided to kill everything, everywhere, every universe.

If you aren't the oncoming storm you are superior to the Daleks in only one respect:

Spoiler

DY-ING!

[SaruSama]

I gotta say IMO the Necrons have this one pretty handily, I mean from the OPS scenario the initial troop advantage should go to the necrons. If im reading the situation correctly the daleks are just starting to rebuild themselves which means that a whole tomb world worth of necrons are going to be gunning down on them and hunting down any random survivors.
In light of this the only real chance i see for the daleks is if the necrons innate craziness lets one of them get away. Because if one does manage to get away clean they will build until the battle is obviously in their favor. However I kind of doubt that because most of the actual fighting will probably be wave after wave of mindless drones.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

Just to put in perspective the Daleks fought on equal terms with race who's comically obsolete technology is capable of towing planet Earth across the universe without killing everyone living on the planet. And the Daleks matched them so completely reality broke and became a mockery of existence so bad the other side decided it was better to ragequit and turn off existence. And after that they not only survived but decided to kill everything, everywhere, every universe.

If you aren't the oncoming storm you are superior to the Daleks in only one respect:

Spoiler

DY-ING!

And the Necrons managed to not just exterminate two races of physical gods, but bind the broken fragments of one of those races of gods into eternal slavery, before turning off the lights and going to sleep for sixty million years. The Daleks do not have a monopoly on crazy OP historical feats...they don't even have a monopoly on mind-control nanotech.

[Siosilvar]

Originally Posted by Zahhak

I've never heard of the Necron, but if they are able to go up stairs, or into rocky areas, or really any place that isn't a city with well maintained roads, sidewalks, and elevators, the Necron win.

EL-E-VATE! ~NuWho Daleks

[Dienekes]

Originally Posted by Siosilvar

EL-E-VATE! ~NuWho Daleks

Old Who as well actually.

One thing to note is how intelligent are we actually making the Daleks here? Oh I know we're told they're all geniuses, but they have been shown to have technology that is absolutely insurmountable if used with the slightest tactical ability.

They can teleport anything, and have small bombs that can completely destroy a planet. Clouds of SCIENCE that can turn any organic matter into Dalek slaves, that don't even know they're slaves. Hell they have even created machines that could destroy the entire universe and a means of keeping themselves and only themselves safe from the blast. None of this stuff works, because the Daleks are kinda idiots about it.

Now I don't know much about the Necrons, but they'll need some very big guns to stand up to a Dalek empire that actually uses their equipment intelligently.

[Avilan the Grey]

Originally Posted by Zahhak

I've never heard of the Necron, but if they are able to go up stairs, or into rocky areas, or really any place that isn't a city with well maintained roads, sidewalks, and elevators, the Necron win.

You haven't watched Dr Who for the last 20 years, have you?

As for another point: Isn't the Nectrons limited to the Milky Way? I thought only the Tyranids were extra-galactic in their origin? (not counting the warp). The Daleks are not so limited, AFAIR.

[Selrahc]

Daleks build up things like Universe guns made out of planets if given a chance. Necrons don't.

[Avilan the Grey]

Originally Posted by Selrahc

Daleks build up things like Universe guns made out of planets if given a chance. Necrons don't.

That's true; Dalek Fluff is one of the few that have More Dakka than 40k Fluff.

[Cikomyr]

There is on flaw in the opening statement: Daleks aren't Androids. They are living creature using cybernetic technology.

Except if I missed a new plot point...

[Eldan]

The Necrons are the androids, I'd assume. The Daleks are cyborgs.

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

And the Necrons managed to not just exterminate two races of physical gods, but bind the broken fragments of one of those races of gods into eternal slavery, before turning off the lights and going to sleep for sixty million years. The Daleks do not have a monopoly on crazy OP historical feats...they don't even have a monopoly on mind-control nanotech.

Two races of gods?

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by Eldan

The Necrons are the androids, I'd assume. The Daleks are cyborgs.

/facepalm

[Cikomyr]

Originally Posted by Eldan

The Necrons are the androids, I'd assume. The Daleks are cyborgs.



Two races of gods?

C'Tan and... Old Ones?

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr

C'Tan and... Old Ones?

I'll admit they did technically have help killing the Old Ones (from the C'tan), but then they took out the C'tan on their own.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I'll admit they did technically have help killing the Old Ones (from the C'tan), but then they took out the C'tan on their own.

More then technically.

And only taking out the Old Ones gave the Necrons the shot to backstab the C'tan.

And I still put that conflict below Dalek tech.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I'll admit they did technically have help killing the Old Ones (from the C'tan), but then they took out the C'tan on their own.

Ah. I must have misunderstood you, then. I thought they had enslaved two races of gods and I was wondering if there was any indication that either the C'tan where two distinct races, or if there were also Old One Shards in the new codex.

[Zahhak]

Originally Posted by Siosilvar

EL-E-VATE! ~NuWho Daleks

Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey

You haven't watched Dr Who for the last 20 years, have you?

I was assuming we were talking about Old Who Daleks, who I have not seen to be able to magically fly, since in the Nu Who we are told like 80 times that the Daleks have been wiped from all of time and space. It's a load of bull**** that the writers continually try to get around by simply ignoring instead of coming up with an enemy for the Doctor to fight that isn't a horribly overdone joke, but still, we are told more then once that the Daleks are all dead. So, I am under the assumption of Old Who Daleks who cannot fly, and are thus limited to cities with well maintained roads, sidewalks, and elevators.

[The Glyphstone]

The Daleks can't be completely gone, I thought there was some sort of contract clause BBC had that required them to use the Daleks at least once per year/season or lose the rights to their image forever.

[Dienekes]

Originally Posted by Zahhak

I was assuming we were talking about Old Who Daleks, who I have not seen to be able to magically fly, since in the Nu Who we are told like 80 times that the Daleks have been wiped from all of time and space. It's a load of bull**** that the writers continually try to get around by simply ignoring instead of coming up with an enemy for the Doctor to fight that isn't a horribly overdone joke, but still, we are told more then once that the Daleks are all dead. So, I am under the assumption of Old Who Daleks who cannot fly, and are thus limited to cities with well maintained roads, sidewalks, and elevators.

Go watch Remembrance of the Daleks.

And yes, NuWho never came up with new enemies like the Silence, or the Weeping Angels, or the Vashta Nerada, or the Ood.

Also the Daleks are all dead hasn't been a thing for the last 3 seasons, though I will admit it was horribly overused during the Davies run.