Honestly, I've never really gotten the appeal of truly grimdark MLP fics. It just seems to completely contradict the fundamental concept of the Ponyverse as being one where love and friendship will always come out on top in the end.
Honestly I agree but some fics that are dark are actually pretty good. Also it depends on what your definition of Grimdark is.
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Honestly I agree but some fics that are dark are actually pretty good. Also it depends on what your definition of Grimdark is.
I have nothing against Dark in MLP fanfiction per say; between Discord, Chrysalis, and what we know of the Season 3 Villian, I'd say there's plenty of dark already in the show's cannon. The key difference I see between Dark and Grimdark is the former keeps to the concept that, no matter how bad things may get, love and friendship will triumph in the end, whereas the latter tends to be much more cynical and depressing, which I feel runs counter to the basic themes of the show.
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I would suggest that anytime one's conversation could be accurately described as "blabbering" there's probably a high chance one is annoying somepony else.
But the trick is that one conversing is often unaware that such a conversation is surpassing the abstract word count border into the territory of blabbering, which is often just an oversight due to enjoying the topic of conversation moreso than the receive is, so one has to take into account if the person they are talking to enjoys the topic chosen or if another topic is indeed necessary to shift into.
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Originally Posted by Forum Explorer
Cute comics (...)
The one with Cadence getting caught making the funny face is my favorite. I may be slightly biased on that opinion though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokonic
Well, Dark is when there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Grimdark is when that light is red.
Or an oncoming train.
Alabenson's above definition is the one I use to separate Dark and Grimdark. I'm not a fan of Grimdark myself. Sometimes it gets too close to that "Uncanny Valley" resemblance of certain real life events I've seen.
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No pretty sure he thinks he's Digo Dragon.
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I have nothing against Dark in MLP fanfiction per say; between Discord, Chrysalis, and what we know of the Season 3 Villian, I'd say there's plenty of dark already in the show's cannon. The key difference I see between Dark and Grimdark is the former keeps to the concept that, no matter how bad things may get, love and friendship will triumph in the end, whereas the latter tends to be much more cynical and depressing, which I feel runs counter to the basic themes of the show.
Under this criteria, I believe that Fallout: Equestria itself qualifies as Dark, seeing as it is to me a story of hope and recovery for a broken world, whereas Project Horizons just has the broken world.
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I just about tolerate Dark - and that's not MLP-specific, that applies to Nanoha, Naruto and Harry Potter fanfic as well - but grimdark is where I draw the line. I've read a few fics that started out fairly bright and dropped into fairly grim territory (The Empty Room I think is the most notable contender), but that managed to hold my interest, and it did have a mostly positive ending.
(Related note, I think EQD grimdark/dark tags are more helpful that FiMs' merely [dark] because there is a gradient.)
I will just about tolerate grimdark if there's humour (or really black humour) as a major component; someone did a Mass Effect entitled the Butcher, in which Shepard was a literal sociopath nutcase. I likened it to a trainwreck - it was horrible (the situation, not the writing!), but you couldn't look away. But that is very much the exception to the rule.
Generally, I'd prefer to be amused by comedy (though I don't mind a bit of Shakespearian tragedy now and again to sharpen the contrast, Chengar Qugarth's Winningverse springs to mind as managing to be consistently hilarious while dealing with some rather seriously messed-up ponies).
There are also those fics where the protagonists are the bad guys, and that is generally okay too, if done well. (One outstanding sorta example from Naruto is Nugar's Lie series, in which Naruto (and Sasuke and Hinata, and most of the other characters they meet and... infect) are really quite a horrible bunch of ruthless individuals (to their enemies, like "real" ninja), but are also freakin' hilarious. (In particular Lie Sasuke is my favourite Sasuke portrail in any medium.)
Oh and in honor of National Judgement Day: One more closing political add for the race for best princess
Spoiler
Celestia says she is best pony, but do we really know how she's been ruling Equestria?
In the past two years, Equestria has been rocked by disaster. Parasprite swarms, repeated destruction of Ponyville, assaults by dark supernatural forces.
35% of the royal budget goes towards rebuilding the damage caused by HER STUDENT. Another 57% is earmarked for her RAMPANT CAKE LUST.
It's time for a change
payed for by the committee for Woona is Best Princess.
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Well, Dark is when there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Grimdark is when that light is red.
In that case I disagree that Fallout Equestria or even Fallout in general is grimdark. In general yes the world sucks and awful things happen that make you doubt the possibility of a light at the tunnel. But in Fallout (Equestria or otherwise) the world begins to show signs of improvement as evils are ended, wrongs are righted and hope begins to shine. If it was truly grimdark then the most that could be accomplished is a temporary respite.
True Grimdark usually involves unbeatable forces that will eventually consume everything you hold dear no matter what you do. Lovecraft and Warhammer 40k spring to mind when I think of Grimdark.
Edit: Pikied' by Balmas
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Under this criteria, I believe that Fallout: Equestria itself qualifies as Dark, seeing as it is to me a story of hope and recovery for a broken world, whereas Project Horizons just has the broken world.
I think I am wonder why they chose Fallout as crossover, the world maybe broken but it can be repaired and will become better than the previous world.
- Before Nuclear War, world is totalitarian, overpopulated, and Retro Technology cost more materials than the one we use today.
- After Nuclear War, the world is actually much more better thanks to
Spoiler
Vault Dweller and the Chosen One.
Still Fallout Equestria might be darker than Fallout (More graphic description of wound and really show how it horribly the world is).
Spoiler
But Lil' Pip saved the world.
Here's more Grimdark
- Dark Sun
- Warhammer 40k
- Drowtales (well, it depends on whether you pick Tek'liath or not)
- Shadowrun
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Miko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
Is this the explanation I get of who those ponies are? Heh. I was thinking more single line description plus existing picture, maybe a seperate line for what the hell the guild of chains is. Still, I recall stumbling across these hijinks whilst trying to figure out what/who/etc Midnight was.
Oh yeah, no, that's as totally intentionally planned on my part and not serendipity brought about by cleaning out my notebox. Psh. As if we would even suggest I'm not some kind of mastermind. Puh-lease.
>_>;
Quote:
Midnight is the Haremizer Bazooka, right? Who was it weilding the bazooka?
Talespinner;
Spoiler
This is Talespinner right? Red/Black stripey mane, dark orange/red coat? Bit hamtastically nefarious?
Faithful Song?
Spoiler
Is this about right? A one line summation would be useful.
Also, vaguely urban, manehattenish noiry setting?
"about" he says, after diving for relevant info.
Yes, those are the ones. Although I think TaleSpinner goes more for in distinct Asian/Persian heritage, and less squinty evil.
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Originally Posted by otakuryoga
LOL
way to take the silly option and ramp it right up to batbleep crazy 8)
It's less crazy than you'd think, mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCerberus
I fixed it.
Sigh. XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmas
Under this criteria, I believe that Fallout: Equestria itself qualifies as Dark, seeing as it is to me a story of hope and recovery for a broken world, whereas Project Horizons just has the broken world.
Dark is hard to describe except by allusion. Dark humor, dark twists. The otherwise hopeful and positive story of Big Mac being eaten by the apple clan after an accident so he would always be with them, a part of the family forever, that was dark.
Grim is gritty. Noir is usually grim, because things don't get better without effort. Fallout is grim, because life sucks and people's re content to be better than the next guy, but you can fix it. It's uphill, but the struggle matters.
Grimdark is both, plus more than the sum of its parts. It is dark for the sake of being dark. Grim without redemption. In Grimdark the struggle actually doesn't matter, not narratively. It is cruelty for amusement. Any redemption or salvation on ye part of the characters runs counter to the setting, and is usually squashed when an author realizes it is there.
Fallout equestria is more grim with some dark, do you could say it is grim and dark, but not Grimdark. WH:40k is Grimdark because things don't get better, there is very little net positive, the closest to good you get is a murderer with an agenda instead of without one, and the best a hero could achieve is not to make the weld better but to possibly keep his small corner from getting worse.
Grimdark games are for when I want to make my DM cry. But they aren't fun. I'd rather play a game of joy and hope and regain all my willpower, rather than dominate a rube and only get the one point.
That's not true. Ino totally lost a fight to Sakura early on during Chuunin exams! She even got to monologue and everything.
Oh! my mistake.
They never did anything except lose in unimportant fights to other (often minor) characters.
...and IIRC, they BOTH lost that fight. Even when Sakura got a CMoA, she lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCerberus
Re: thread image.
My ballot only has "Trixie" and "The Great and Powerful Trixie"
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
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Oh! my mistake.
They never did anything except lose in unimportant fights to other (often minor) characters.
...and IIRC, they BOTH lost that fight. Even when Sakura got a CMoA, she lost.
Ehh, I tend to ignore pre-time skip Sakura. Otherwise, I just make myself get headaches from the amount of times I bang my head on the wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCerberus
Oh and in honor of National Judgement Day: One more closing political add for the race for best princess
Spoiler
Celestia says she is best pony, but do we really know how she's been ruling Equestria?
In the past two years, Equestria has been rocked by disaster. Parasprite swarms, repeated destruction of Ponyville, assaults by dark supernatural forces.
35% of the royal budget goes towards rebuilding the damage caused by HER STUDENT. Another 57% is earmarked for her RAMPANT CAKE LUST.
It's time for a change
payed for by the committee for Woona is Best Princess.
Spoiler
Woona claims that she can fix the problems Celestia has made.
But can she?
Woona has supported her relative on all points of forign relations, in that there are none. None of Woona's plans have addressed the currant issues of he day, in that they consist of a crayon drawing saying "Cuddlepiles and Huggies". Who can lead Equestria in this dark time, with threats such as the Griffons or Boffenspark lurking in the shadows? Who can be brave enough to make sure that threats like the Everfree Forest are tamed?
Silent Night is the answer.
With over fifty years of experiance in maintaining a non-prophet organization dedicated to helping the unloved, the unprotected, and the unliving, Silent Night is prepared to use his home-grown roots and values to protect Equestria from falling to those who would with to see it distroyed. With a long history of positive relations with other countries and a history of successful ventures in the private sector, who would you prefer to take control over the Equestrian goverment?
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Former avatar, had it since I started realy posting here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tychris1
Pokonic look what you have done! You fool, you`ve doomed us all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorhandle
Oh Pokonic, never change. And never become my D.M.
I have nothing against Dark in MLP fanfiction per say; between Discord, Chrysalis, and what we know of the Season 3 Villian, I'd say there's plenty of dark already in the show's cannon. The key difference I see between Dark and Grimdark is the former keeps to the concept that, no matter how bad things may get, love and friendship will triumph in the end, whereas the latter tends to be much more cynical and depressing, which I feel runs counter to the basic themes of the show.
Right I define GrimDark as well situations like 40K. Things are overblown messes where the heroes are just as bad as the villains and even when times were good you were liable to be killed horribly. Or the heroes never really had a chance in the first place, no matter how powerful or capable they may seem. So Project Horizons is pretty much GrimDark.
Dark is a bad situation. Perhaps even a horrible situation. But heroes exist. The chance for things to get better exist, even if this hero ends up failing. Perhaps no one wants anything to change but basically even can be triumphed over and things can get better, even if they are likely to get worse instead. Fallout Equestria and even Silent Ponyville fall in this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCerberus
Oh and in honor of National Judgement Day: One more closing political add for the race for best princess
Spoiler
Celestia says she is best pony, but do we really know how she's been ruling Equestria?
In the past two years, Equestria has been rocked by disaster. Parasprite swarms, repeated destruction of Ponyville, assaults by dark supernatural forces.
35% of the royal budget goes towards rebuilding the damage caused by HER STUDENT. Another 57% is earmarked for her RAMPANT CAKE LUST.
It's time for a change
payed for by the committee for Woona is Best Princess.
Pony Elections
Spoiler
The Ponies of Equestria need to see past the stagnant two pony system that has ruled since this great nation's founding. Ponies need a caring ruler, a loving ruler, who is both modern and humble.
Princess Cadance is willing to get down and dirty in fixing this country's economy and from her humble beginnings as a mere foalsitter is well aware of issues that plague all classes of society not like Celestia and Luna who've never missed a meal in their lives. Cadance has also served in the military when fending off the Changling Invasion.
In 2012 give the Love Party a chance to shine.
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
Sometimes I wish the fandom wasn't so fixated on Fallout: Equestria. It's not the end all, be all fanfic. I feel sad that fics like Dangerous Business and Tales get swept under the carpet so quickly.
Project Horizons is just beating a dead horse at this point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
We don't have enough pony to fill a subforum. We have enough friendship to fill a ponythread.
Sometimes I wish the fandom wasn't so fixated on Fallout: Equestria. It's not the end all, be all fanfic. I feel sad that fics like Dangerous Business and Tales get swept under the carpet so quickly.
Project Horizons is just beating a dead horse at this point.
I didn't like Dangerous Business that much really. I'm not sure what you mean by Tales.
Lost and Found is another really good one and I did like some Conversion Bareu stories.
__________________ sacrificing minions: is there any promblem it CAN'T solve?
Wait a minute. I just realised that I'm more than part way through what amounts to not one request, but two to three disguised as one, and only one of the three ponies I've even met.
I am a sucker, apparently.
Oh well, we'll see how it goes. And given that the request wasn't explained that thoroughly, the catch is that the concept has mutated from cross contamination and unfamiliarity. Guess thems the breaks, Siuis.
I didn't like Dangerous Business that much really. I'm not sure what you mean by Tales.
Lost and Found is another really good one and I did like some Conversion Bareu stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmas
It's a Dangerous Business is one of the best Slice of Life adventure fics in the fandom. It's just lesser known.
What is this Tales you speak of?
Well, give it a read. You won't regret it. (It is based on S1 canon, so any discrepancy with S2 is forgivable. I think it makes the story stand out all the more.)
Crystal Ponies
A. Mutated Earth Ponies
B. Subtypes of Ponies
C. Product of extensive mixed marriages between Earth Ponies and Unicorn after founding of Equestria (ALA Elderscrolls Bretons, looks human but have magical affinity).
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Miko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
so moonstuck apparently ended. what am i going to fill my time with now? >.>
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Well, give it a read. You won't regret it. (It is based on S1 canon, so any discrepancy with S2 is forgivable. I think it makes the story stand out all the more.)
Well I gave it a chance. It was alright. I really disliked how Celestia was portrayed. Overall though I can see why it's mostly been forgotten. It's short and memoir style doesn't make for a dynamic read if you know what I mean. It's like reading, well memoirs. There isn't much tension to be had.
I'll give some of those a try as well, though if I remember correctly Heart of Gold, Feathers of Steel is actually pretty popular as is.
Anyways I think Fallout Equestria became so famous and popular is because it lends itself well to write your own fic in the same universe. Also it is really well written and exciting to read while managing an amazing blend of dark, hope, tragedy, and atmosphere.
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