Revenge of the Fleshweaver! [Vote up a Hybrid Creature]

[radmelon]

Arthropod and mammal.

[Eldan]

As you wish...

Foxadder

Spoiler

Small Animal (Reptilian)
HD 2d8 +2 (11 hp)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); swim 20 ft., climb 20 ft. burrow 20 ft.
Init: +7
AC 16; touch 14; flat-footed 13
(+1 size, +3 dex, +2 natural)
BAB +1; Grp -5
Attack Bite +4 (1d6-2 plus poison)
Full-Attack Bite +4 (1d6-2 plus poison)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Poison
Special Qualities Scent, Low-light vision
Saves Fort +4 Ref +6 Will +1
Abilities Str 7, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills Balance +11, Climb +11, Listen +10, Spot +5, Survival +1*, Swim +6
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Track (B), Improved Natural Weapon: Bite (B)
Environment Temperate Forests
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 1
Treasure Hide, 5 gold pieces
Alignment True Neutral
Advancement --

*Foxadders have a +8 racial bonus to all climb, balance and swim checks, and a +4 racial bonus to listen and spot checks and survival checks made to track prey.

Poison (ex): Fort DC 11 (constitution-based), 1d6/1d6 constitution damage.

[RollynT.Glal]

Votes for the Bird and Mammal!

Points for the fastest animal ever the Peregrine Cheetah!

[Dracomortis]

Arthropod and Bird.

[Aldreck]

Arthropod/Reptile

[Debihuman]

Just because I think all hybrid animals should be written as magical beasts here's the changes I made.

Note: The Reptilian Subtype is only ever used with the Humanoid type. New creatures never need the improved natural weapon feat to explain their attacks, only advanced creatures should have that.
Poison DC is 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + Con modifier. 10 +1 +1 = 12. Treasure for animals is usually None. An intact hide might be worth 5 gp but if you kill one in combat, you've almost certainly ruined it. That information belongs in the description rather than in treasure.
You should add that foxadders use their Dexterity modifier to make Climb checks under skills section.

Spoiler

Foxadder
Small Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 2d10 +2 (13 hp)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); swim 20 ft., climb 20 ft. burrow 20 ft.
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 13
BAB/Grapple: +2/-4
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-2 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-2 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4 Ref +6 Will +1
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +11, Listen +6, Spot +6, Survival +1 (+5 to track prey), Swim +6
Feats :Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Track (B)
Environment: Temperate Forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: —

Foxadders rely on their venomous bite to kill prey and defend themselves. An intact foxadder skin is worth 5 gp.

Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 12, initial and secondary damage of 1d6 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Skills: Foxadders have a +8 racial bonus to all Climb, Balance and Swim checks, and a +4 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks and to Survival checks made to track prey. Foxadders use their Dexterity modifier for Climb checks.

Debby

[THEChanger]

Arthropods and Reptiles.

[Eldan]

Counting the votes...

Animal Groups:

Category	Example Creatures	Votes
Arthropod	Spiders, scorpions, lobsters, crabs, insects, millipedes, etc.	0
Amphibian	Frogs, toads, salamanders.	0
Bird	You know those. They taste like chicken.	0
Echinoderm	Starfish. And only starfish.	0
Fish	They swim. They might be sharks.	0
Mammal	Mice, elephants, monotremes, and everything in between.	0
Mollusc	Slimey things. Snails, squids, octopodes, mussels, clams.	0
Reptile	Crocodiles, lizards, snakes.	0

And we have an Arthropod Mammal.

Vote one each:

What kind of Mammal:

Category	Example Creatures	Votes
Insectivores	Shrews, aardvarks, moles, hedgehogs.	0
Paenungulata	Elephants, manatees, dugongs.	0
Xenarthra	Sloths, armadillos, ant-eaters.	0
Primates	Lemurs, monkeys, non-human apes.	0
Lagomorpha	Hares, rabbits.	0
Rodents	Mice, rats, squirrels, hamsters.	0
Cetacea	Whales, dolphins, porpoises.	0
Even-Toed Ungulates	Pigs, hippopotamuses, camels, deer, giraffes.	0
Odd-Toed Ungulates	Horses, rhinoceroses, tapirs.	0
Chirophtera	Bats.	0
Carnivores	Cats, bears, seals, dog-likes.	0

What kind of Arthropod:

Category	Example Creatures	Votes
Trilobite	Extinct, but very cool looking	0
Arachnids	Spiders, Scorpions, Mites, various things that look like spiders	0
Myriapods	Centipedes and millipedes	0
Crustaceans	Shrimps, barnacles, crabs, lobsters, krill, woodlice	0
Insects	Tons of cute creepy crawlies	0

[Debihuman]

Insectivores and Myriapods because I think a hedgehog millipede mix would be interesting.

Debby

[radmelon]

Rodents and arachnids, because spiderats are terrifying.

[Volthawk]

Chirophtera and Trilobite.

[Eldan]

Trilobats! Fantastic!

[Aldreck]

Arachnid/Carnivore

[dethkruzer]

Paenungulata and Trilobite

[Blightedmarsh]

Lagomorpha And Crustation

[Dracomortis]

Chirophtera and Arachnid

[THEChanger]

Carnivores and Arachnids.

Wolfspider? No. Cheetah/Scorpion. *nods*

[Lyndworm]

Sorry I missed round 2:1. My vote goes for Primates and Myriapods, because I want a monkeypede.

I almost went with even-toed ungulates and crustaceans so we could see a moose-lobster, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

Originally Posted by Debihuman

New creatures never need the improved natural weapon feat to explain their attacks, only advanced creatures should have that.

As far as I know, the rest of the post is correct, but the part I quoted is not. Several Animals have the Improved Natural Attack feat, such as the cachalot whale, rhinoceros, tiger, and tyrannosaurus. If you count dire animals, the dire shark and dire tiger also have Improved Natural Attack. Those are all from the Monster Manual, I think; splatbooks are bound to include a few more.

[Debihuman]

Originally Posted by Lyndworm;14248701
As far as I know, the rest of the post is correct, but the part I quoted is [i

not[/i]. Several Animals have the Improved Natural Attack feat, such as the cachalot whale, rhinoceros, tiger, and tyrannosaurus. If you count dire animals, the dire shark and dire tiger also have Improved Natural Attack. Those are all from the Monster Manual, I think; splatbooks are bound to include a few more.

It is a wasted feat because as the designer of the creature you get to pick whatever attack you want for your creature.

Do you have any idea how many errors there are in the MM? If you look carefully, you'll also notice the cachalot whale is missing 2 skill points.

You have to increase the damage from something, but in initial creature design you have to pick damage.

I think WotC erred in using the Improved Natural Attack feat even though I can understand the reasoning behind it. They purposefully tried to match the real world animals as much as possible. The end result was that they hamstrung them. Is that a bad design? Not if you only use standard versions of the creature.

It makes more sense for 9 or 12 HD tiger to have Improved Natural since the tiger's size doesn't increase. BUT, you can't give it to them because they already have it. [As a DM this is what makes me gripe]

It also has the benefit of keeping the CR artificially low. A 16 HD dire tiger has a CR of 8. That's fine until you go to increase the HD. A 32 HD dire tiger can only bite for 2d6+Str bonus because of it. Who is going to be threatened by that? Exactly no one.

A similar problem exists for the cachalot whale. At 13-18 HD, the attack doesn't change but if you bump it for size at 19 HD it's tail slap does 2d6 damage plus Str damage. At 36 HD the sperm whale's tail slap is 2d6+Str bonus. It's just totally unremarkable. For natural animals, they're suppose to be that way, but not fantasy ones.

he feat can only be applied once to each attack. A since the tiger's claws and bite are already limited by that feat, there really is no reason to advance the creature as it stops being a challenge quickly.

And that is why it is a wasted feat. I'm not saying you can't use it but is that how you really want to design your creatures?

[Edit]I noticed you had no advancement for the foxadder, so if you want to keep the power level down, Improved Natural Attack is an easy way to do it. Is there a reason that they don't advance?

Debby

[Eldan]

The advancement for the Foxadder was based on that of the Viper, which has every size category as a different creature.

[Lyndworm]

I can't disagree with you, but apparently I can misunderstand you. Somehow, I had gotten the impression that you thought that giving a basic creature Improved Natural Attack was objectively wrong, and that it hadn't been done (as opposed to shouldn't be done).

To further emphasize your point, the crocodile has above-average bite damage despite not having any feat or ability to raise it, so the concept was obviously not lost on whoever designed the Animals.

[Debihuman]

To L: Thanks for the clarification.

To E: Can't wait to see what else you come up with.

Debby

P.S. I suspect that some designers at WotC were just better than others. If I were a betting person, I'd bet several different designers worked on Animals, which is why some work better than others.

P.P.S. I apologize for not being clearer about my objection to INA as an initial feat in my earlier post. This is one of my pet peeves with monster design. I'll try to be less vehement and more explanatory in the future.

[havocfett]

Lagomorph Crustacean.

The Fearsome Bunnylobster sounds like a hilarious idea.

[Eldan]

Been more than two days. Let's count.

Right. Tie-breaker vote. We have an Arachnid. Will it be an Arachnid-Lagomorph, Arachnid-Chrioptera or Arachnid-Carnivore?

Next vote counts.

[Volthawk]

Arachnid-Chrioptera

[Lyndworm]

Time for a bat-mite, I guess.

[Eldan]

Alright, then.

Chiroptera is bat. I'll accept cosmetic suggestions, and suggestions of all sizes between fine and medium. Might make this a swarm, too.

What Arachnid

Category	Example Creatures	Votes
Araneaomorphae	Most common spiders
Mygalomorpha	Tarantulas and relatives
Whip scorpions	Funny little things. Have no tails, but extremely long whips instead of forelegs.
Scorpions	Stingy thingies
Acari	mites

[radmelon]

<edit> changed my vote to Acari

[Blightedmarsh]

What about Eurypterid?; namely the extinct sea scorpions.

[Lyndworm]

I think I'm going to go with Acari, despite my previous joke. As much as I love arachnids of all shapes and sizes (especially solifugids), I like the idea of a vampire tickbat getting so bulbous it can barely crawl away from its now-anemic victim.