So I just played Psychonauts for the first time

[Corlindale]

I can deal with hard, but there were parts of the Meat Circus that just felt unfair. I'm not even talking about the initial, timed sections - but at a point when fighting

Spoiler

your dad

you have to make a jump from one net-like thing to another, and it just doesn't seem to work right with the collosion detection.
I tried that part a billion times, but though I always felt as if I made the jump, Raz would just never grab hold of the net unless I could hit some random magic spot. That's not proper difficulty, that's just the game not working properly.

Of course, this is all from memory, so I might recall some things wrongly. But I know that I gave up on the game at this point.

[Dr.Epic]

And that's the story of how Raz saved the world! Or in other words, I finished the game. Overall, I liked it. There were some flaws, but I had a good time. I'm a little sad I didn't 100% finish the game. There were a bunch of figments and PSI cards I didn't get as well as scavenger hunt items. I'll probably play through it again and be a lot more thorough.

Originally Posted by factotum

Not really. I just felt relief when I finally finished it because some bits were so cheap--in particular:

Spoiler

Having to climb all the way up the big top while protecting Lil' Oleander at each level was ruddy ridiculous. All that platforming would have been hard enough on its own without having to do it all to a really strict time limit!

Yes! This!

Spoiler

Protecting Oleander was one of the most annoying things in the game. It took me like 12 tries to get through it. And the whole time him shouting in that annoying kid voice.

The rest of the Meat Circus was alright. Favorite level would have to be Lungfishopolis despite the fact you couldn't use levitate which was my favorite power.

I also liked how the game ended on a cliffhanger. I can't wait to play the sequel.

[Thrawn183]

Well, this probably won't be a popular opinion, but I really didn't like Psychonauts. I'm glad I picked it up on that steam sale where it was only two dollars.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Thrawn183

Well, this probably won't be a popular opinion, but I really didn't like Psychonauts. I'm glad I picked it up on that steam sale where it was only two dollars.

WHAT!? Why you no like?

[Eakin]

Originally Posted by Dr.Epic

WHAT!? Why you no like?

Well, I personally love the game but it does have plenty of flaws. The games strength is in the setting and the writing which makes up for a lot, but it's got some awkward interface issues, all the side quests are collectathons without a lot of depth or reward (collecting figments especially), and there are some places where the controls are just frustrating. Rising water in the meat circus where you have to climb nets wrapped in a cylinder, and jumping between them is hard for all the wrong reasons stands out in my mind.

Still love it to death though, warts and all. So much that I bought it twice after I gave my PS2 copy away to a friend Didn't hurt that it was part of an awesome Humble Bundle the second time.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Eakin

Rising water in the meat circus where you have to climb nets wrapped in a cylinder, and jumping between them is hard for all the wrong reasons stands out in my mind.

I liked that part of the Meat Circus.

[Thrawn183]

I really didn't like the controls. After about two hours I just gave up.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Thrawn183

I really didn't like the controls. After about two hours I just gave up.

Only two hours!?!? Did you even make it to Sasha Nein's shooting gallery? Heck, you couldn't have even made it to Lungfishopolis. I refuse to acknowledge the opinion of someone who's never even seen Lungfishopolis. It'd be like saying I don't like Star Wars when they've never seen a New Hope or the Empire Strikes Back.

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Epic

Only two hours!?!? Did you even make it to Sasha Nein's shooting gallery? Heck, you couldn't have even made it to Lungfishopolis. I refuse to acknowledge the opinion of someone who's never even seen Lungfishopolis. It'd be like saying I don't like Star Wars when they've never seen a New Hope or the Empire Strikes Back.

Better yet it's like someone making a judgement on a game two hours in when there is around 38 more hours to go. Which is exactly what it's like. Complaining about a ports controls is also not a solid argument. They controls were fine on a PS2 controller.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

Better yet it's like someone making a judgement on a game two hours in when there is around 38 more hours to go. Which is exactly what it's like. Complaining about a ports controls is also not a solid argument. They controls were fine on a PS2 controller.

38 more hours? I beat the game in under 20. While I didn't get 100%, I did do a lot of searching for figments, cobwebs, emotional baggage, scavenger hunt items, PSI cards, etc, and I collected most of them.

[Tebryn]

I have 40 hours logged on the game on the PS2, 100% completion.

[Domochevsky]

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

(Also, how does the controls being fine on a PS2 controller translate to them being fine on a mouse/keyboard setup?)

You really shouldn't be so dismissive. :|

[Tebryn]

Originally Posted by Domochevsky

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

(Also, how does the controls being fine on a PS2 controller translate to them being fine on a mouse/keyboard setup?)

You really shouldn't be so dismissive. :|

They don't, I was saying the controls on a PC are not as good. It can be forgiven for a port however. That was my point. I'd argue as well that the game is good 2 hours in. But that doesn't matter. Making a judgement call about something you're not knowledgeable about isn't being well informed is it?

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Domochevsky

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

I'm saying it is good off the bat, and the best part isn't until later. Also, I hardly think 2 hours counts as "right off the bat."

[smuchmuch]

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

I fully understand that if you dont like a game you don't want to play it further, but I will argue some gameplays or storries can need a certain time to get into full momentum.

But if you ever have time for it, i'd say the game deserve another retry one day. control aren't great but i do'nt remember being that awfull either and storry and humour make it more than worth it.

38 more hours? I beat the game in under 20. While I didn't get 100%, I did do a lot of searching for figments, cobwebs, emotional baggage, scavenger hunt items, PSI cards, etc, and I collected most of them.

(Ah yes but have you tried talking, using objects or clairvoyance on everyone, and so on ? It can padd a bit of time. And one or two fun jokes and video.

That said, I agree 38 hours seems waaaayyy longer than the game has to offer. that said for a full 100% run may be longer seeing as some fragment are just painfull to get.r(Waterloo world, Mila's race. ugh. and pointless as there's nothing really interesting after rank 90)

In my memory this game is sadly quite short and jsut a smudge too easy, it really could have done with another challenging mindscape level between the Asylium and the Meat circus.
(I understand they couldn't make a level for every camper but when all the brain where in jars, i felt they missed an opportunity to make some kind of 'scrambled' world of all the kids or a visit in fculler's fractured psyche or something of that effect.)

[Domochevsky]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

They don't, I was saying the controls on a PC are not as good. It can be forgiven for a port however.
...

Can it? If you say so.

Originally Posted by Tebryn

...
That was my point. I'd argue as well that the game is good 2 hours in.
...

So would i.

Originally Posted by Tebryn

...
But that doesn't matter. Making a judgement call about something you're not knowledgeable about isn't being well informed is it?

But at what point can you considered to be knowledgable? Do you have to slug through something you're not having fun with all the way to the end before you're allowed to say that you didn't like it?
(And that's what he did. He said that he didn't like it because of the controls. I liked the game (despite the controls), but he didn't. I'm not holding it against him.)

I might be playing Devil's Advocate here. And i still hate that one jump in Waterloo. More difficult than the effin' meat circus.

[Eakin]

Originally Posted by Dr.Epic

I liked that part of the Meat Circus.

I liked the sequence on the whole, but with a keyboard/mouse control setup there was one jump that threw me off in random directions to my death. Frustrating

Originally Posted by Tebryn

Better yet it's like someone making a judgement on a game two hours in when there is around 38 more hours to go. Which is exactly what it's like. Complaining about a ports controls is also not a solid argument. They controls were fine on a PS2 controller.

Originally Posted by Domochevsky

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

(Also, how does the controls being fine on a PS2 controller translate to them being fine on a mouse/keyboard setup?)

You really shouldn't be so dismissive. :|

Originally Posted by smuchmuch

I fully understand that if you dont like a game you don't want to play it further, but I will argue some gameplays or storries can need a certain time to get into full momentum.

But if you ever have time for it, i'd say the game deserve another retry one day. control aren't great but i do'nt remember being that awfull either and storry and humour make it more than worth it.



(Ah yes but have you tried talking, using objects or clairvoyance on everyone, and so on ? It can padd a bit of time. And one or two fun jokes and video.

That said, I agree 38 hours seems waaaayyy longer than the game has to offer. that said for a full 100% run may be longer seeing as some fragment are just painfull to get.r(Waterloo world, Mila's race. ugh. and pointless as there's nothing really interesting after rank 90)

In my memory this game is sadly quite short and jsut a smudge too easy, it really could have done with another challenging mindscape level between the Asylium and the Meat circus.
(I understand they couldn't make a level for every camper but when all the brain where in jars, i felt they missed an opportunity to make some kind of 'scrambled' world of all the kids or a visit in fculler's fractured psyche or something of that effect.)

You absolutely should be able to judge a game 2 hours into it. Hell, if a game hasn't found some way to grab you in the first 30 minutes it's doing something wrong. I'm not saying it has to crescendo there but that's more than enough time to engage a player. At its worst this kind of thing kills games (looking at you, FF13)

[Psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Domochevsky

To be fair, i never bought into the "you gotta get X hours into the game before you get it!" argument. Why can't it be good right off the bat?

Originally Posted by Eakin

You absolutely should be able to judge a game 2 hours into it. Hell, if a game hasn't found some way to grab you in the first 30 minutes it's doing something wrong. I'm not saying it has to crescendo there but that's more than enough time to engage a player. At its worst this kind of thing kills games (looking at you, FF13)

I agree with both of you to an extent, but I wouldn't apply the principle so broadly. I've played many a complex strategy game, for example, that didn't truly shine until you move from the learning phase (when everything can feel confusing and arcane) to the mastering phase. And adventure games with truly killer puzzles that are frustrating as hell straight from the get-go, but oh-so-satisfying once you figure them out. In both cases, the very nature of the game mechanics involves rewarding the player for his/her initial patience.

(I've also had the experience of introducing many people who are used to modern games to classics where the dated graphics turned them off at first, but at my urging they kept playing and frequently went on to place them among their favorites. Graphics can have a major effect on one's initial impression of a game, but today's top-of-the-line graphics are tomorrow's blocky, pixelated messes, while good design/writing is eternal.)

[factotum]

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Graphics can have a major effect on one's initial impression of a game, but today's top-of-the-line graphics are tomorrow's blocky, pixelated messes, while good design/writing is eternal.)

Well, Psychonauts did the right thing with the graphics, too--cartoony graphics somehow never look as bad as top-end pseudo-realistic ones when you go back and look at them a few years later. I'd go so far as to say Psychonauts is still a darned fine looking game, despite its age.

[Lunix Vandal]

Originally Posted by Eakin

Rising water in the meat circus where you have to climb nets wrapped in a cylinder, and jumping between them is hard for all the wrong reasons stands out in my mind.

Yep. Years ago, I had played through when it was free on Gametap for a week. When I bought the game on Steam last year and proceeded on my full-completion run, this was the one bit that I was least looking forward to.

Spoiler

And then, entirely by accident, I found out you can walk on the heavy orange frame along the top of those nets. There was much rejoicing.

[Knight13]

Dr. Epic, one thing I would check out on your next playthrough, if you didn't notice the first time, is that you can show many of the items you pick up to people around the camp and they'll say something about it. A lot of the reactions are pretty funny. Of particular note is Mr. Pokeylope. If you just follow the story, you'll have him in your inventory for all of about 30 seconds. But if you actually take him around and show him to people, everybody has a unique reaction to him.

[Mewtarthio]

Originally Posted by Lunix Vandal

Yep. Years ago, I had played through when it was free on Gametap for a week. When I bought the game on Steam last year and proceeded on my full-completion run, this was the one bit that I was least looking forward to.

Spoiler

And then, entirely by accident, I found out you can walk on the heavy orange frame along the top of those nets. There was much rejoicing.

That's how I cleared that challenge, as well. Heck, I actually never even considered jumping from net to net, because that would have just been ridiculous.

[Xondoure]

I've yet to summon the strength to deal with the Meat Circus (I. Hate. The. Knife. Throwers.) But that jump in Waterloo World... I cheated and used levitate to jump from tree top to tree top.

[Thrawn183]

Originally Posted by Tebryn

Better yet it's like someone making a judgement on a game two hours in when there is around 38 more hours to go. Which is exactly what it's like. Complaining about a ports controls is also not a solid argument. They controls were fine on a PS2 controller.

That I might enjoy a game later on, is not a particularly convincing argument to keep playing when I'm not enjoying it now.

I was playing on PC and did not like the controls. How good the controls were for PS 2 is immaterial. If you want to argue that people should pick it up for their console that's one thing, but in no way do the PS 2 controls invalidate my comment.

No game is for everybody. I was willing to pick Psychonauts up cheap and give it a shot. It just didn't pan out for me. Heck, I still ended up supporting the developers more than people who just pirated it.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Thrawn183

That I might enjoy a game later on, is not a particularly convincing argument to keep playing when I'm not enjoying it now.

Well, it kind of is. No source of media is completely good. There's always slow parts or bad episodes. Even my favorite movies/games have parts I hate. Given your only two hours of game play, I still say you need to play more of it. (Lungfishpolis FTW!) I mean, with cut scenes, how much in two hours did you really play? And you never since have come back? You bought it and were never like "Maybe I should give it a second chance," some random day when you're bored and had nothing else to do?

I was playing on PC and did not like the controls. How good the controls were for PS 2 is immaterial. If you want to argue that people should pick it up for their console that's one thing, but in no way do the PS 2 controls invalidate my comment.

First time I played Shadow of the Colossus I hated the controls. But I eventually got used to them and had fun with the game.

No game is for everybody. I was willing to pick Psychonauts up cheap and give it a shot. It just didn't pan out for me.

You played 2 hours of a game that could have kept you entertained for at least 20 hours. Or heck, someone said they put 40 hours into it. I hear your argument that not everything is for everybody, but you've barely played it. It'd be like reading the first few pages of a novel and giving up after that. Was it really such a colossal failure that it didn't warrant a few more hours of game play.

[Tono]

It is a very valid thing to give up on a game in 2 hours, especially if you paid very little for it. Hell, my psychonauts game has 13 hours on it. Thats not collecting every little thing, but it was most of the brains and beating it. If 2 hours into the game I felt that I didn't like it I would have probably been better off finding something else to do for the ~10 hours I would spend playing something I didn't like. Hell, I've given up books after one chapter if I couldn't get into it. Should I feel bad for never having finished Jane Eyre? The notion that his opinion about a game's controls are invalid because he didn't finish a game(Especially when the concerns are things that even people who like the game can attest to. Some games are just better with a game pad as compared to a keyboard) is absurd. 2 hours in Psychonaut is 10-15% of the gameplay, and the gameplay is not deep enough for it to not be a good feel of the game.

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Tono

It is a very valid thing to give up on a game in 2 hours, especially if you paid very little for it. Hell, my psychonauts game has 13 hours on it. Thats not collecting every little thing, but it was most of the brains and beating it. If 2 hours into the game I felt that I didn't like it I would have probably been better off finding something else to do for the ~10 hours I would spend playing something I didn't like. Hell, I've given up books after one chapter if I couldn't get into it. Should I feel bad for never having finished Jane Eyre? The notion that his opinion about a game's controls are invalid because he didn't finish a game(Especially when the concerns are things that even people who like the game can attest to. Some games are just better with a game pad as compared to a keyboard) is absurd. 2 hours in Psychonaut is 10-15% of the gameplay, and the gameplay is not deep enough for it to not be a good feel of the game.

I still stand by my statement that anyone who's never see the glory of Lungfishopolis cannot truly and fully give a credible review of the game.

[Iskandar]

My 2 cents. My experience with playing platformers with mouse/keyboard is similar to my experience trying to play a FPS with a controller. Just a bad, bad, terribad, horrible, backwards choice. Platformers, or anything with a third person perspective and a free camera absolutely need a gamepad, otherwise you are going to have a bad time.

For those who got frustrated with the controls with the Steam version, do yourself a big, big favor. Go get a decent controller. If you have a PS3 or an XBox, those controllers will work on your PC (with a bit of tinkering in the PS3's case). It is, almost literally, night and day. (although I will note, having owned the PS2 version, that the gamepad controls on not QUITE as crisp as they were on the DualShock, close enough, though)

I owned the the PS2 version, beat it, lost the game in my recent move. When it showed up on Steam I bought it again. If it ever shows up in the PS3 online store, I will buy it a third time. I love a good platforming/adventure game, and this definitely qualifies.

[Thiyr]

Originally Posted by factotum

Well, Psychonauts did the right thing with the graphics, too--cartoony graphics somehow never look as bad as top-end pseudo-realistic ones when you go back and look at them a few years later. I'd go so far as to say Psychonauts is still a darned fine looking game, despite its age.

Sorry, just read this again, and my brain was gonna keep itching till I shared this. Separating the terms is important when it comes to discussing this sort of thing >_>;

[Dr.Epic]

Originally Posted by Thiyr

this.

Or more simply put: No duh!