League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

[TechnOkami]

Well, I should specify what exactly my build order is.

start boots pots, go into 2 doran's blades, a cutlass, work into & finish a triforce, typically finish the gunblade (should I?), & then... well, I've hardly gotten that far, so, to be honest I'm not sure. I'd think Maw and GA might be good on him. Not sure what to fill in for that 5th item.

[Math_Mage]

Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous

As far as Jax items: I personally favor Triforce->GA->Mallet. Triforce for damage, GA for survivability and just plain GA-dom, and Mallet for extra survival + chasing. After that, it's mostly damage items(BT->LW) if I'm stomping or defensive items(Randuins/FH->FoN) if I need to be tankier.

Trinity+Mallet is kinda strange. I'd just go for Randuin's straight up except against heavy magic damage (QSS/BVeil/FoN situational) or true damage (Warmog's). Remember, Randuin's also give you extra chasing with its passive and active slows. FH against heavy AD.

That is, my build order would be:
-Boots-Pots
--Optional Doran's Blades (cheap damage in tough lane)
-Phage
--Optional Vamp Scepter (cheap sustain in tough or even lane)
-Trinity
--Optional Cutlass (if ahead)
-GA
And then the above considerations for defensive items.

[ZeroNumerous]

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

Trinity+Mallet is kinda strange.

I want AD and HP. Unfortunately it's one of the few items that does both.

[Reynard]

Related to Jax Talk: Gunblade spellvamp stacks again. But really though, with the new wave of items, building Jax just got a lot more complicated, and a case of 'which of all these really good items would be best for me'


Well, except: Scimitar > Malmordius is always true lategame.



Also, in a PBE game where a bunch of us were trying things out, we came up with the idea of porting Van Damme's Pillager to SR by upping the flat ArPen on all the items that have it by a little bit, but making it in line with the named item passives, like Legion, Insight and That-One-That-Gives-MPen.

So you can build one Flat ArPen item, and you choose if you want Black Cleaver, Van Damme's, or Ghostblade. Thoughts?

[aethernox]

Hexdrinker is strong, but Maw is a terribly inefficient upgrade. Get Hexdrinker if you're seriously threatened by a specific AP, otherwise get Aegis or GA.

[Eldariel]

Originally Posted by Reynard

Related to Jax Talk: Gunblade spellvamp stacks again. But really though, with the new wave of items, building Jax just got a lot more complicated, and a case of 'which of all these really good items would be best for me'

Stacking Gunblades on either Jax or Akali was never anything but a niché pubstomp build much like Revolver-stacking Vlad anyways. Making Gunblade Spellvamp Unique was one of the most unnecessary changes in the game's history. Against reasonable opponents the fact that your effective HP is all based on lifestealing means you just get bursted down with maybe a single CC effect.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

Stacking Gunblades on either Jax or Akali was never anything but a niché pubstomp build much like Revolver-stacking Vlad anyways. Making Gunblade Spellvamp Unique was one of the most unnecessary changes in the game's history. Against reasonable opponents the fact that your effective HP is all based on lifestealing means you just get bursted down with maybe a single CC effect.

That was mostly in jest, but okay. The actually serious part of my post is still relevant. People are going to want revisit all their builds and think about what's best for them.

I've already got a pretty strong Garen build going, though the lose of HoG is a big one.

[Mtg_player_zach]

So this happened.

Spoiler

I just dominated the entire game. Soloed Vilemaw at one point. Died to Vilemaw at another point when I started it at 1/3 hp after we aced them, we did get it though.

I swear it is SO easy to win on treeline.

[aethernox]

Originally Posted by Mtg_player_zach

I swear it is SO easy to win on treeline.

you're 21/9. you're practically still in normal elo placement matches, so it's to be expected.

[Godskook]

I really hope the gunblade active's CD reduction goes live. Akali is *SO* going to love that. If she does well in a rolling teamfight, she could actually get off two gunblade shots per fight.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Originally Posted by aethernox

you're 21/9. you're practically still in normal elo placement matches, so it's to be expected.

They aren't improving.

[PersonMan]

Originally Posted by Reynard

I've already got a pretty strong Garen build going, though the lose of HoG is a big one.

What is it? After a custom game in which I tried an unusual Garen build (Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/FoN) I've been considering going for more tanky builds than my normal AD + resists one.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by PersonMan

What is it? After a custom game in which I tried an unusual Garen build (Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/Warmog's/FoN) I've been considering going for more tanky builds than my normal AD + resists one.

Bots of choice/Runic Bulwark/Black Cleaver/Frozen Mallet, then you have a choice to make between Mercurial Scimitar/Atma's Impaler/Randiuns Omen/GA

Best part is that nearly all these items have a lesser stage that you can build first to get a rounded build quickly, then upgrade to taste. Aegis/Brtualizer/Phage/QSS/Warden's Mail is still a lot of tankyness and a fair amount of damage.

Fully built, though, you have 240-ish in all resists, 4.2K health, 250 AD, and Arpen/ArShred

[Eldariel]

I'm really liking the new Blackfire Torch. Champs like Karma, Janna, Zilean, champs on whom I got DFG for CDR before I can now run BFT instead. And it just so synergizes well with Sorcs for generating surprisingly solid damage.

Funny note, Brand's passive triggers Blackfire Torch so when you hit somebody with Brand's anything while having BFT they burn extra long (last tick of passive triggers full BFT trigger).

[9mm]

... urgh so many jungle changes to process.

Though the thought of lee being bad in the jungle makes me laugh.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Bruisers are megapopular in TT. But in my experience, a solid tank can neuter them pretty hard.

I've only lost one Shen game so far, and just carried a game out as Nautilus by making their Garen irrelevant with 300+ armor.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by Maeglin_Dubh

Bruisers are megapopular in TT. But in my experience, a solid tank can neuter them pretty hard.

I've only lost one Shen game so far, and just carried a game out as Nautilus by making their Garen irrelevant with 300+ armor.

In my experience, Garen is largely irrelevant to most of the TT regulars, unless he builds damage and they don't build armour, but then he's irrelevant because he gets murdered.

Now, if you can find a way to counteract Olaf, besides 'Kill his team then beat him down', I'd like to hear it. If only so I know what to avoid when playing him.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Originally Posted by Reynard

In my experience, Garen is largely irrelevant to most of the TT regulars, unless he builds damage and they don't build armour, but then he's irrelevant because he gets murdered.

Now, if you can find a way to counteract Olaf, besides 'Kill his team then beat him down', I'd like to hear it. If only so I know what to avoid when playing him.

Jarvan. Haven't lost as him, either.

[Eldariel]

Anivia is the ultimate Olaf-counter. Jarvan's indeed another good one, especially in Carry comps.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Played as Jarvan the other night, brutalized the enemy Jax solo top, went bottom and ganked for a kill on Olaf about two minutes into laning.

Spent the rest of the game abusing Jax and making Olaf sit in Time-Out every time he ulted. My Katarina and Diana were quick to notice the theme and make use of it.

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by Maeglin_Dubh

Played as Jarvan the other night, brutalized the enemy Jax solo top, went bottom and ganked for a kill on Olaf about two minutes into laning.

Spent the rest of the game abusing Jax and making Olaf sit in Time-Out every time he ulted. My Katarina and Diana were quick to notice the theme and make use of it.

Ha, yeah. Only CC that works on an ulting Olaf: Walls.

[Adumbration]

Bought Zed today, been playing him a lot. Thoughts so far:
- kills squishies well (though Zhonya's tends to counter him)
- Max E and then W, Q is pretty superfluous early (mostly an energy drain, maybe good for getting cs if you're getting zoned)
- Mediocre jungler. Fast cleartime, no sustain.
- W+E is a good harass mechanism
- Last hitting is extremely easy with the passive and the animation is very responsive
- Weak-ish early laning, need to be careful. W is a good escape though

[PersonMan]

Originally Posted by Reynard

In my experience, Garen is largely irrelevant to most of the TT regulars, unless he builds damage and they don't build armour, but then he's irrelevant because he gets murdered.

In my experience, going Tankren results in you being hilariously hard to kill but also utterly useless.

In my experience, AD Garen works as well on TT as on SR...no, better, even. Which means winning. Armor? Pillager/Brutalizer/Black Cleaver say no. Damage? Lifesteal/spellvamp/W active and passive say no.

I mean, I'm sure there are people who /should/ own AD Garen, but the good old 'be better at AD Garen than they are against him' works for me quite well.

EDIT: Basically, Tankren plays like AD Garen but with two differences:

-You do no damage.
-You generally die once your team is dead and you get focused. (This is often the case as AD Garen, in my games, but he's squishier than Tank, so he's more likely to die to focus fire before mop-up.)

[toasty]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

Anivia is the ultimate Olaf-counter. Jarvan's indeed another good one, especially in Carry comps.

I once played with Zach late at night when he was "tired." The enemy picked Vlad and he insta locked J4 and screamed into his mic about how he was gonna kill vlad. Vlad can't pool out of J4 ult.

I honestly don't know why people don't play j4 more. Hopefully the new jungle will make him more popular. Honestly, Wriggles/Aegis J4 is one of the best bruisers from the jungle. IMO he's better than Nocturne, and he does AD damage and he's pretty much a beast initiating tank. Like, the fact that he is an AD initiating tank is a big deal, because other initiating tanks, like Amumu and Malphite are magic damage. Though I suppose Triforce Malphite IS VIABLE, just not something I would suggest you play.

In other news: I played the best League game ever.

Our team: Karthus, Nocturne, Cait/Nunu, Irelia (me)
Their team: Kass, Moakai, Vayne/Janna, Darius

I tell the team to run a 2v1 because I'm 100% sure I can 2v1 with Irelia (only because Wickd did it, tbh ) and I take 2v1 runes/masteries.

We run a 2v1. Darius gets FB. Kass kills karthus with ganks. We leave laning certainly behind. Karthus keeps dying, Cait is overly aggressive, and our nocturne has BT and is building Trinity force. Throughout this entire period I am farming. I do nothing but farm, in fact, and only TP to fights.

Then we have a fight near baron. I don't even remember what happened this fight, except we won with 3 alive (nunu/karthus died) and took baron. But we weren't able to do anything with it because cait, karthus, and nunu keep going alone and dying. I type in chat "don't go alone" like 5 times and I actually think it kinda worked. Nunu still has the problem of solo warding by himself (I tell him to ask for help, he kinda gets more cautious, but still solo wards). Karthus, btw, is 0/6 at this point, though he is farming well. The enemy Kass/Vayne are fed as hell. Darius is under control because of the 2v1 and I do realize Nocturne, while he has a retarded build, IS killing the enemy carries. He does apparently know how to play Nocturne. So basically, we have proven we can win teamfights, but are still severely behind.

The thing is, their damage is focused on 2 heroes: Kass and Vayne. Mobile carries, but still squishy. Darius/Moakai aren't peeling, and instead are initiating, so Janna alone is there to peel. I stand way back and wait for Vayne/Kass to come into Q range and/or stand on top of cait and kill Moakai/Darius when they come. Karthus plays perfectly, in all honesty. He did exactly what Karthus with 0 kills should do: die instantly and then win the teamfight.

Three teamfights later, and one stolen penta (Cait got a quadra and I didn't realize until after I killed the last guy while Cait was DPSing him LOL) we have 3 GAs and their middle inhib is up with no tower. Only my GA procs. We win.

I have no clue how we won. Apparently though, I can play Irelia now. Its this strange sensation. I still feel like my Irelia is very weak, because Irelia has a very weak early game, and I HATE early game weak champions (its why I am unable to play Singed).

I also admit that game would have been impossible to win if I had 1v1ed Darius and/or their bot lane had been a good 2v1. If they had run Taric/Graves or Leona+Corki I would have died. Janna Vayne has no killing power and I started cloth+5. I don't think I had to TP to tower once, just used it for splitting.

edit: My elo sucks btw. I'm like 1200 something. 200 elo below where I was a week ago. This reset **** sucks. I think its because, as someone told me a while ago, I don't play a carry style. I prefer to just farm. I've carried two games as Vlad/Ryze by going middle, letting my enemy roam for free, and then pushing their lane and taking wraith camps. My team complained until we started to teamfight, where I KILLED EVERYONE.

In other news: Playing at low elo has made me notice some things.

A) the importance of learning how to play passive. NO ONE DOES THIS. If you are losing your lane, play passive. Its very hard to do, becuase you feel bad doing it, but you must. Playing passive is the key to winning a losing lane. Its all about good decision making.

B) AD carries are very, very, easy to play against bad players. A Good AD Carry stands in the back. This would explain why our cait from the previous game was constantly in range of Moakai/Darius CC. it was really painful to watch Nunu/Cait stand so ****ing close to the enemy team for no reason at all. Its very frustrating for me to constantly say "Cait stand behind me Ill protect you" only to have to dive into the enemy team to save the carry.

C) I'm beginning to anaylze my own play and realize how good I am, which also means how good players better than me are. Its really interesting that Riot discusses removing "burden of knowledge" all the time, yet I think League is basically impossible to play effectively without specific mechanics memorized. I was wondering to myself when I learned how to freeze lanes. Because, to be completely honest, I don't even remember anyone telling me or anything, I just realized you could freeze lane. I learned how to use bushes for aggro and/or skirmishing top lane (Pro tip: Top Lane is won by ganks, freezing lane, and bush control, unless you are darius and can just kill stuff)

Also: I'm waiting for the 2v1 meta to hit solo queue. Like, its really easy. I think the major issue with top lane assassin heroes is you can 2v1 them and beat them. The same issue exists middle lane. I never played DotA with jungling, so I'd like to know if lane swaps, trilanes, and stuff like that, how common was it in pug DOTA games?

edit: Holy Hell this was a big post.

[ChaosOS]

Thing about J4 is I'm spoiled on old J4 when he was super b0rken with HoG stacking and the full 9 yards. He's good now still, but it's hard to play someone who used to be able to just wreck whole teams and now you have to remember to think carefully about acting. Although, my recent success with him was doing wraiths->red->gank jayce for our xin, get first blood, farm jungle some and give first blue to our mid viktor, gank mid right before red expires, farm, red comes up, gank top again for another kill, farm, right before red expires gank top again for another kill, then teamfights roll around and xin got a penta. It's amazing how good Jarvan's ganks are though. Like, just stupid you can't get away from them no matter what you do good.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Anyone else have any first impressions on Zed? He looks nifty, but I've not been impressed by him in any of the games I've seen him in yet.

[aethernox]

Speaking of J4, did anyone watch the SGS vs TPA series at GPL Playoffs?

Specifically game 3, the only game that SGS took off of TPA. As it happens, they won with mid Karma, but that's not why i'm bringing it up.

Did anyone here know that you could do this with J4's combo?

[ChaosOS]

He's not that good. Runs out of energy super fast if he wants to do any damage at all, double hits help but then you can't gap close at all if your ult isn't up. Basically, ults can get you kills, but other than that he's weak.

[toasty]

Originally Posted by ChaosOS

He's not that good. Runs out of energy super fast if he wants to do any damage at all, double hits help but then you can't gap close at all if your ult isn't up. Basically, ults can get you kills, but other than that he's weak.

When j4 was super broken I was 2-11 with him in ranked.

edit: 2-14 actually.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Originally Posted by toasty

When j4 was super broken I was 2-11 with him in ranked.

edit: 2-14 actually.

Talking about Zed.