League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

[NineThePuma]

Yeah, that was crazy. Panth? Ripped to pieces. Warwick? he even ULTED onto you and you got him. Sona? Wrecks you :P

All in all, a good night. I barely had to go with Jax/Olaf/Katarina doing all the heavy lifting.

[Math_Mage]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

You clearly haven't watched Voyboy enough; hilariously enough he started playing Gragas top after I'd asked him during some stream session if he thinks it's viable (Gragas has an ASpd slow, is naturally tanky as hell, and mobile so he's kinda natural fit for toplane). Voy used to run Gragas in CLG poke comps and now he's running him in general in top with Crs.

And it's worth noting that many midlaners build tanky first nowadays too; Froggen's go-to Ahri build is Doran's > Abyssal > Zhonya for instance. Orianna is almost invariably built with Chalice into stuff, and Anivia, Grag, etc. are obvious.

Having run into top lane Gragas once, I can attest that he is annoying as hell. Even if he's behind, it feels like you can't do anything to him. Of course, I was Xin without much enemy jungle pressure, so I unambiguously won lane, but still.

[aethernox]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

And it's worth noting that many midlaners build tanky first nowadays too; Froggen's go-to Ahri build is Doran's > Abyssal > Zhonya for instance. Orianna is almost invariably built with Chalice into stuff, and Anivia, Grag, etc. are obvious.

To be fair, tanky AP itemization is ridiculous. It's not like you aren't building damage.

[Eldariel]

Originally Posted by aethernox

To be fair, tanky AP itemization is ridiculous. It's not like you aren't building damage.

Mhm. I just started playing Swain more. Been going a bit unorthodox with Chalice > Zhonya/Abyssal > Grail > Guardian Angel. Seems Grail covers the mana problems, Abyssal/Sorcs is as good as ever and having 3 effective lives with 200 Armor/MR is quite solid for the Staying Alive-part.

On Treeline you even have room for a Blackfire Torch or a Voidstaff in the last slot. On SR I usually have to settle for a Deathcap.

[Godskook]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

Mhm. I just started playing Swain more. Been going a bit unorthodox with Chalice > Zhonya/Abyssal > Grail > Guardian Angel. Seems Grail covers the mana problems, Abyssal/Sorcs is as good as ever and having 3 effective lives with 200 Armor/MR is quite solid for the Staying Alive-part.

AP + GA? I wouldn't really cal that unorthodox. Hell, you're still getting Deathcap, an M-Pen item, and CDR. Plus, resists are unusually good on Swain, since he's got decent innate healing.

[Eldariel]

Originally Posted by Godskook

AP + GA? I wouldn't really cal that unorthodox. Hell, you're still getting Deathcap, an M-Pen item, and CDR. Plus, resists are unusually good on Swain, since he's got decent innate healing.

Grail over RoA is the unorthodox pick; RoA has been the staple mana item for Swain for his whole existence more or less.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I only get grail(after RoA) if I can't get regular blues.

Hmm, I seemed to get into something here, a little guide for everybody who wants to make sure their enemies get Swain.

Spoiler

Swain, ze General of War, and the Raven of Death.

In what teamcomp do you want Swain: when you want a ranged tanky ap with sustain who can go mid or top.
Preferably with a non-blue reliant jungler who can initiate and tank the first round of damage.
For the AD carry, anybody but Ez, unless Ez can manage his mana troubles.(IE. having MP5 runes/Soraka/very good with managing his skills)
You need to be blue numero #1
Supports: Leona, Sona, Janna, Alistar, Then other ones.
Top/mid: Doesn't matter that much, preferably non-blue reliant with a lot of burst so that you have both burst and DoT.

Masteries: 21/0/9(offensive AP + Utility mana(regen) and buff duration)
Spells: Flash+Ignite.

Skills: R>E>Q>W.

Items:

Boots + 3 pot
Catalyst
Boots 2/ROA(a early roa is key to winning the ending of your laning)
Spirit visage/hourglass
Grail/ Deathcap/ Abyssal scepter. Voidstaff if you're doing really well and they're building MR.

If doing really wel: Go ahead and build that deathcap after your RoA. Spirit visage and Hourglass can come later. Press you advantage.
Addional defensive items if problems with enemy Phys dmg: Frozen Heart, GA.
Addional defensive items if problems with enemy magic dmg: QSS, Banshees.

The trick towards not having mana problems in laning, is just last-hitting properly. Don't underestimate how much mana you can get from your passive, it is a lot. Not to mention that I run a set of MP5's on Swain.

On skills:
Q: The laserbird: Nice for a slow and some damage. Try to throw this just before your snare wears off instead of landing it straight away. No use in him walking away a second after your snare ends.
W: Nevermove: A delayed AoE snare. A one point wonder. This skill however has a long cooldown, so keep an eye on your jungler, because if he wants to gank, you need this spell up.
E: Torment: A strong DoT spell which also amplifies your other damage by 8% / 11% / 14% / 17% / 20%. (from 3 points in and onward, it amplifies more then Vlads friggen ult! But only for you, because you are special. )
If somebody is E'd, don't just stand there, throw in some AA's, they're also amplified!

Why level it that way: Ult is pretty straightforward, more damage and thus more healing, you want that. But why E over Q? Your Q might be doing more damage, but the damage amplification on your E, makes your total damage output more then your Q could hope to offer.


R: Boogy time: Sends out three ravens of damage which will heal you for a quarter of the damage done. Pretty mana intensive though.

Try to figure out when you're getting harassed in lane and you need ult-healing, when you should do so. Your mana should always be higher then your health when you do it, in my oppinion. Plan ahead, buy some ward, because ult healing will push your lane.
As a general guideline:
When you don't have blue, try to save your ult for when going in for the kill.

For teamfights, the same things go, save it for when going for the kill or you think you'l be getting a lot of focus.

Spellcombo: WEQ. R when described as above.

Teamfighting in General(Ha):
You're a tanky AP who likes to be in the middle of things. You go in after the tank.
Combo whoever is fed or squishy enough to go down quick.
Hourglass if you're getting focussed and let the heat go a bit to your mid/top and AD carry. In the later part of the combat, try to kite more as you will slowly(or not so slowly) be running OOM.

Uh I think I got everything, have fun Swaining your enemies!

[TechnOkami]

Reads "Last Hitting Is Key to Swain", cries self to sleep.

[Eldariel]

Hm, few things I've found I do differently:

Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota

Masteries: 21/0/9(offensive AP + Utility mana(regen) and buff duration)

I actually run 9-12-9 on him; I find having Indomitable and Creep Damage allows for great lane aggression. I've also run 19/11/0 on him but ultimately I feel the extra mana and buff duration is stronger than the extra AP.

Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota

Skills: R>E>Q>W.

I go E > W > Q; E's great for winning the lane especially since it amplifies autoattack and Ignite damage, but W gets its cooldown reduced by ranking it while Q only gets damage & slow increase by ranking it, not to mention W's great for shoving lanes.

Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota

Boots 2/ROA(a early roa is key to winning the ending of your laning)

As I touched on above, I liked how the Grail-experiment went against mage laners (against physicals it's fully possible you're too squishy that way; didn't get to test it; I'm tempted to try Doran's Shields there); your ult gives you stupid amounts of effective HP so the extra MR gives you great increase in your durability, and the CDR allows you to hit the CDR cap with blue which is really nice for a mage who plans to sit in the fight for its whole duration.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by TechnOkami

Reads "Last Hitting Is Key to Swain", cries self to sleep.

I hate to say it, Techno, but last hitting is key to every role in the game besides Jungle and Support, and even then those two should know how to do it with the champ they're playing.

[PersonMan]

Originally Posted by Reynard

I hate to say it, Techno, but last hitting is key to every role in the game besides Jungle and Support, and even then those two should know how to do it with the champ they're playing.

I disagree. There are some top laners, for example, for whom last hitting isn't really mandatory. Sure, it's better if you can, but they can get by without it. Kennen, for example, can farm with Q, E/W, etc. without much last hitting skill.

Same with some others. This probably doesn't apply at higher skill levels, but often lane dominance -> shoving lane + warding is enough to keep an enemy from catching up.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Originally Posted by PersonMan

I disagree. There are some top laners, for example, for whom last hitting isn't really mandatory. Sure, it's better if you can, but they can get by without it. Kennen, for example, can farm with Q, E/W, etc. without much last hitting skill.

Same with some others. This probably doesn't apply at higher skill levels, but often lane dominance -> shoving lane + warding is enough to keep an enemy from catching up.

"Hi. I'm Garen. You might remember me from such movies as 'How is He Tower Diving at Level 2?!' and 'How I Met Your Jungler.' Some of you seem to think I need to last hit, and, well, that's just erroneous. You see, I just spin, and I always win. Remember, kids, real champs don't quit or do drugs. They spin to win."

[PersonMan]

I was thinking more about Renekton and Darius, but they all spin to win, so it's close enough.

[Reynard]

Last hitting is still important, because sometimes you don't want to push your lane into their face the entire time. Sometimes you want to attempt to deny them creeps/XP, or are stuck under tower where being able to pick off minions as your tower damages them is really helpful. Spinning-to-farm under tower just gets 75% of the wave killed by said tower.

[Silverraptor]

Last hitting is important on every champion. Everyone needs gold to contribute in the late game.

And Techno, you don't need to be perfect in last hitting. I'm not perfect and miss some last hits here and there. All you need to do is just keep practicing and get better at it.

[TechnOkami]

Originally Posted by Silverraptor

Last hitting is important on every champion. Everyone needs gold to contribute in the late game.

And Techno, you don't need to be perfect in last hitting. I'm not perfect and miss some last hits here and there. All you need to do is just keep practicing and get better at it.

I know. I'm still going to complain about it though.

[Eldariel]

Season 3 Mastery Calculator. I'm really liking the look of Spellblade, given how much I like to autoattack with my magi. Granted, 5% isn't all that but it's still quite useful.

Lethality being better on melee than range is interesting; I wonder if it's worth taking points in anymore given it's so hard to itemize crit efficiently on melee types and it's not worth as much on rangeds. Then again, 10% ASpd buff seems massive late.

Also, Brute Force is gone so it might be worth it to run Butcher if last hitting is a problem. I'll also pay a higher opportunity cost for decent AD on my mages now since it's a 12 point mastery, not a first tier one.


Safe Guard and Relentless look really good. Both Offense and Defense capstones got worse tho. Top tier Defense is looking really oddball in general. Swiftness became Utility capstone tho. That's interesting. Also, all the Move Speed is in Utility now so Utility is much more enticing for ganking junglers and Singed. Biscuiteer/Explorer are oddball but probably worth it if you're going that deep in Utility.

Meditation on tier 1 makes splashing Utility way easier. Also, Artificer looks interesting; I wonder how much that's really worth tho given the types of cooldowns on item actives. Hm, it'll probably be really strong on Dominion tho.

[Silverraptor]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

Season 3 Mastery Calculator. I'm really liking the look of Spellblade, given how much I like to autoattack with my magi. Granted, 5% isn't all that but it's still quite useful.

Lethality being better on melee than range is interesting; I wonder if it's worth taking points in anymore given it's so hard to itemize crit efficiently on melee types and it's not worth as much on rangeds. Then again, 10% ASpd buff seems massive late.

Also, Brute Force is gone so it might be worth it to run Butcher if last hitting is a problem. I'll also pay a higher opportunity cost for decent AD on my mages now since it's a 12 point mastery, not a first tier one.


Safe Guard and Relentless look really good. Both Offense and Defense capstones got worse tho. Top tier Defense is looking really oddball in general. Swiftness became Utility capstone tho. That's interesting. Also, all the Move Speed is in Utility now so Utility is much more enticing for ganking junglers and Singed. Biscuiteer/Explorer are oddball but probably worth it if you're going that deep in Utility.

Meditation on tier 1 makes splashing Utility way easier. Also, Artificer looks interesting; I wonder how much that's really worth tho given the types of cooldowns on item actives. Hm, it'll probably be really strong on Dominion tho.

These masteries look amazing. I'm going to need help reorganizing my masteries when this comes out.

[Forrestfire]

I am a huge fan of the Utility tree here, since Biscuiteer lets me buy more starting wards as the support, and explorer is just an extra ward, which is pretty awesome.

I wonder if 14/0/16 would be worth it on a champ like Jax in order to get both Spellsword and Vampirism (and the biscuit and the ward...).

[aethernox]

Originally Posted by TechnOkami

I know. I'm still going to complain about it though.

Please don't.

[Eldariel]

I'm kinda sad defense lost its CDR. It was nice, having a reasonably easy way to gain a decent bundle of CDR for tanky types, and being able to get 12% of it from masteries for champs who really want heavy CDR build. Also, the flat champ damage reduction masteries seem utterly worthless for anything but superearlygame, and even then...

That said, I guess some of the new things in the tree, such as the slow reduction and the tenacity are quite interesting. Btw, I just reread pickpocket. Holy **** that'll add up fast on AD carries. I wonder if I could find an excuse to run 9/0/21 on ADs the oldschool way.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Pickpocket treats Parrrley! as melee.

BRB, maining support!Plank.

[Legoshrimp]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

I'm kinda sad defense lost its CDR. It was nice, having a reasonably easy way to gain a decent bundle of CDR for tanky types, and being able to get 12% of it from masteries for champs who really want heavy CDR build. Also, the flat champ damage reduction masteries seem utterly worthless for anything but superearlygame, and even then...

That said, I guess some of the new things in the tree, such as the slow reduction and the tenacity are quite interesting. Btw, I just reread pickpocket. Holy **** that'll add up fast on AD carries. I wonder if I could find an excuse to run 9/0/21 on ADs the oldschool way.

Yeah from my quick glance through pickpocket seems like it is the best. (like not really in terms of power, but funnest of the new masteries.) Like 9/0/21 is totally the best every body masteries, well maybe some 0/9/21. :P

[9mm]

Strength of Singed is still too far into the tree still, which makes me sad.

[Eurus]

Originally Posted by Eldariel

That said, I guess some of the new things in the tree, such as the slow reduction and the tenacity are quite interesting. Btw, I just reread pickpocket. Holy **** that'll add up fast on AD carries. I wonder if I could find an excuse to run 9/0/21 on ADs the oldschool way.

It'll also be awesome on Bananaraka.

[TechnOkami]

Originally Posted by aethernox

Please don't.

k'

I still want to though.

[NineThePuma]

I wish I could get on the PBE, but every time I try I get blocked.

[Tychris1]

Originally Posted by NineThePuma

I wish I could get on the PBE, but every time I try I get blocked.

We should siege the PBE, set up barricades around the perimeter and knock people away from entering. Then, when no ones inside, we can go in and steal all the items and take them back with us to the main client.

Now if only we were all Anivia.....

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by NineThePuma

I wish I could get on the PBE, but every time I try I get blocked.

You talking about the gigantic 'over 9000' login queues? Yeah, they've be pretty stupid for a while.

[aethernox]

9/0/21 masteries on everyone, carry junglers + nunu, starting items other than boots+3? Pretty sure S3 is just S1 with new items.