Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
I got really excited about Hurricane, thinking that it might make AD Twisted Fate viable again (Pick a Card applies on autoattacks, as does stacked deck, so...) I read the clarification, and it's one big "nope!"
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tychris1
I wonder how Spray and Pray would work with it.....
The only part of S&P that affects Hurricane is the range increase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mm
Then again I don't think its really for those who go massive crit damage; but more for characters that want to build on-hit, such as the potential abuse case: Teemo.
Teemo's only a potential abuse case if it applies Lichbane, as it should. Even then, that's (estimation) 2400 gold you need. Choosing to buy Hurricane means (in the immediate sense) that you're choosing not to buy Haunting Guise, or that you're choosing not to buy Deathcap, or Lichbane, or whatevskies. Personally, I doubt that this item is strong enough to single-handedly make on-hit a viable build. Niche play on AD carries seems more likely. After all, it is another multiplicative DPS increase that scales with everything but crit chance/damage.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laudandus
I still think support is unfairly good for climbing elo. I'm pretty sure that a good attitude and friendly team chat contributes more than 200-300 elo's worth of support skill, so you can pretty much just rise way way above your elo by being friendly and playing the scaredest Soraka.
It's probably not the most meaningful or fun way to get elo, but I do think it's the best overall.
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that comes into being a support, even one like soraka. Sure you can jump slightly higher in elo then you should be able to spamming a champion with a low skill floor like soraka, doing okay, and then relying on the rest of your team to carry. However, you can do that with practically any role. While support is low on mechanics and pure skill, there is a lot more knowledge that the average support needs to have compared to other roles. You're the main warder, so you need to know what parts of the map have to be warded when, or else someone could die for it, they could get free objectives, or you can easily walk into a trap. In teamfights you need at least a little bit of knowledge of all roles, because if you don't you might not heal the jax who could have killed their adc instead of wasting the heal on your adc who would have survived, or silenced the jayce whose cooldowns are down instead of the ryze who is spamming spells, or exhausted their adc instead of the annie who hasn't ulted yet.
Don't get me wrong, I highly respect an adc who can kite well, a mage who knows how to use his spells well, or a bruiser who knows when to go in and on who. Each of those things no one will blame you for because they'll blame it on the other roles more often then not for not kiting well or not hitting all of their spells properly or not going for the right target. And sometimes that's true. Sometimes, however, it is the supports fault.
Playing soraka isn't going to change whether or not you have that teamfight knowledge and ability to map control through warding and counterwarding, just like playing ezreal doesn't help your last hitting or positioning abilities, for example.
But that's just my opinion.
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Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joran
New item
Incoming Hurricane on-hit Lulu. Bolts all day, onhit everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that comes into being a support, even one like soraka. Sure you can jump slightly higher in elo then you should be able to spamming a champion with a low skill floor like soraka, doing okay, and then relying on the rest of your team to carry. However, you can do that with practically any role. While support is low on mechanics and pure skill, there is a lot more knowledge that the average support needs to have compared to other roles. You're the main warder, so you need to know what parts of the map have to be warded when, or else someone could die for it, they could get free objectives, or you can easily walk into a trap. In teamfights you need at least a little bit of knowledge of all roles, because if you don't you might not heal the jax who could have killed their adc instead of wasting the heal on your adc who would have survived, or silenced the jayce whose cooldowns are down instead of the ryze who is spamming spells, or exhausted their adc instead of the annie who hasn't ulted yet.
This. Something I've noticed that a lot of "support = ward and then AFK in bush" thinking people (not saying you're one of them, Laudandus, but your post seems to indicate that direction of thought) seem to play very very passive supports.
As someone who plays supports often, I think that a support has several things they really should be doing in lane:
-Harassing enemy support and ADC. Focus on harassing the ADC or support depending on things such as lifesteal, heals, etc.
-Making sure your ADC can farm.
-Keeping their ADC from farming as much as possible.
-Winning fights before they happen by harassing/making the enemy waste spells.
-Winning fights while they happen via well-placed use of abilities (i.e. silence just as Graves wants to ult for a kill or Ez wants to jump away; heal right before the Ignite hits).
-Warding to make sure that your aggression doesn't result in massive ganks.
This is...quite a bit to do. You need to judge who to harass (in a lane like Graves/Sona, I'd go for Sona, for example, early on, since Graves' lifesteal will let him shrug off early harass unless it's really concentrated, especially if Sona has lower resistances, to make her use her mana for healing herself), harass them, make sure the enemy can't jump you, make sure you have vision and don't get ganked, try and keep their ADC from farming while protecting your own ADC.
This is probably one of the reasons why I play aggressive supports (or not normally aggressive supports as aggressive; i.e. Soraka who IMO is actually perfect for a hyperaggressive lane), since 'bushcamp, heal when carry is hurt' is the definition of a terrible support in my experience.
One of the reasons I don't play ADC is because, when I do, I almost inevitably want to spend all of laning lecturing my support on how they need to help me in lane instead of warding and sitting in the bush.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
One of the (lesser) reasons that I main support is that so much of what you learn can be applied to any lane. For instance, after the initial clear of jungle, I tend to be worried if their jungler and a laner are MIA-they might be trying to counterjungle you, or setting up a major gank on another lane. This is something that I wouldn't have noticed before I started maining support (especially the squishy ones, OMG how I hated getting caught out -_-), because it wouldn't have been something that I was watching for.
Support also teaches the value of wards (one of the reasons why I'm building Sightstone on everyone ever for all eternity). I don't know how many times an otherwise perfectly executed gank was stopped by my warding and then being aware of the warded area. I don't remember the last time a jungler had a successful gank on my lane, because I simply never let them get behind me (or beside me. Or even remotely close to me).
I tend to play the more aggressive supports, yet run a more passive lane. If that makes any sense. However, I use this to lull them into a false sense of security (including missing moderate difficulty grabs) so that when we go aggressive, they get shocked for that critical half second.
Also: is it only me, or when you say "coming to gank Xlane, please don't push it," do people pretty much always push it or get uber aggressive and ruin the gank?
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonMan
Incoming Hurricane on-hit Lulu. Bolts all day, onhit everywhere.
Sadly Pix doesn't apply to the bolts but Malady/Wit's End would.
Here's a rundown on every ranged champion and their interaction with Hurricane:
Spoiler
Actually, let me just run down the list of ranged champions, that might be faster:
Ashe: Frost arrow works, as it applies to every autoattack.
Caitlyn: Headshot charges faster because it applies to every autoattack but she still only fires one empowered headshot per attack when she has it ready.
Corki: Passive works, as it applies to every autoattack.
Draven: Q and Passive both don't work, as they don't apply to every autoattack. The passive requires the attack to critically strike which Hurricane bolts can't.
Ezreal: Has no on-hit effects.
Graves: E is an on-hit effect and thus E's cooldown will shorten each time he hits something with a Hurricane bolt.
Jayce: Jayce's passives will only apply to his primary target, as it is a attack modifier that only applies once.
Kayle: Doesn't work - but that's mostly due to the fact that her autoattack is an instant attack and thus the AoE field doesn't really make a whole lot of sense coming from the secondary bolts. I'll probably have to work on this one.
Kennen: 'W' charges faster as that applies to every autoattack - but the actual empowered shuriken only affects one additional target as that applies only once.
Kog'Maw: 'W' applies to each target hit, currently.
Lulu: Zero interactions
Miss Fortune: 'W' will stack up and apply grievous wounds to everyone hit by Hurricane Shots, as they apply to all her autoattack in a short duration.
Orianna: Orianna's passive applies to everyone hit - although she will never be able to make 'consecutive' attacks against the same target due to hitting multiple people at a time.
Sivir: Sivir's 'W' does not work with Hurricane, as it is an attack enhancer that only triggers once.
Sona; Power chord does not work with Hurricane, as it is an attack enhancer that only triggers once.
Teemo: Toxic shot will work on Hurricane bolts, as it toxic shot applies to every autoattack.
Tristanna: Explosive shot will work on Hurricane bolts, as it is a passive that applies to every autoattack.
Twitch: Twitch's posion will work on Hurricane bolts, as it is a passive applies to every autoattack.
Twisted Fate: Neither Pick a Card or Stacked Deck will work with Hurricane, as they are passives that apply to one autoattack. Stacked Deck will however, charge much more quickly as the charging happens every autoattack.
Urgot: Urgot's passive will work on Hurricane bolts, as it is a passive that applies to every autoattack.
Varus: Blighted Quiver will work on Hurricne bolts, as it is a passive that applies to every autoattack.
Vayne: Vayne's Silver Bolts are specially coded to not work with Hurricane, as if silver bolts did work with Hurricane, she would never get a Silver Bolts proc ever again. (Because Silver Bolts has a consecutive target restriction.)
Ziggs: ZIgg's Passive will not work on Hurricane bolts, as it is an attack enhancer that only affects one autoattack.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDougal
Also: is it only me, or when you say "coming to gank Xlane, please don't push it," do people pretty much always push it or get uber aggressive and ruin the gank?
No, this happens pretty much every single time.
Generally I tower dive, kill one/both enemies and die (early game) or do the same and live (late game), at least as Skarner, when that happens. Bots, though. It's kind of dumb, anyway.
When I took this to PVP I chased an 80% health fed Singed with Talon dead and won. That was also dumb but I'm okay with it.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogwheel
No, this happens pretty much every single time.
Part of the problem is someone coming to gank when a big wave of minions is forming on your side, meaning that the lane will be pushed and you can't do anything about it apart from waiting for the enemy laner to kill the minions.
Que the jungler: "omg I gank why u push?!"
But I sometimes have this experience, too. More often, though, I just come by and gank, notice no reaction from the laners...and they tell me to ping or say I am ganking in chat. Because a champion portrait and vision on the minimap is too little notice. Even if that weren't enough, you'd think they could react to me running into the middle of their lane to attack...but nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joran
Sadly Pix doesn't apply to the bolts but Malady/Wit's End would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NineThePuma
Nope. Specifically has no interaction with Lulu.
Actually I meant the whole 'shoot 5 bolts per attack, apply on-hit effects 3 times per attack' thing, not 'shoot 11 bolts per attack'.
Last edited by PersonMan : 11-15-2012 at 01:23 AM.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that comes into being a support, even one like soraka. Sure you can jump slightly higher in elo then you should be able to spamming a champion with a low skill floor like soraka, doing okay, and then relying on the rest of your team to carry. However, you can do that with practically any role. While support is low on mechanics and pure skill, there is a lot more knowledge that the average support needs to have compared to other roles. You're the main warder, so you need to know what parts of the map have to be warded when, or else someone could die for it, they could get free objectives, or you can easily walk into a trap. In teamfights you need at least a little bit of knowledge of all roles, because if you don't you might not heal the jax who could have killed their adc instead of wasting the heal on your adc who would have survived, or silenced the jayce whose cooldowns are down instead of the ryze who is spamming spells, or exhausted their adc instead of the annie who hasn't ulted yet.
Don't get me wrong, I highly respect an adc who can kite well, a mage who knows how to use his spells well, or a bruiser who knows when to go in and on who. Each of those things no one will blame you for because they'll blame it on the other roles more often then not for not kiting well or not hitting all of their spells properly or not going for the right target. And sometimes that's true. Sometimes, however, it is the supports fault.
Playing soraka isn't going to change whether or not you have that teamfight knowledge and ability to map control through warding and counterwarding, just like playing ezreal doesn't help your last hitting or positioning abilities, for example.
But that's just my opinion.
Yeah, I phrased that poorly. A well-played support can have a pretty large impact on a game. In particular, something like a really well-played Blitzcrank can make a very large game impact.
But in the average game, the opponent's support is someone who was forced onto support and won't do that well (below ~2100 elo, and even then this happens sometimes). So even if you also can't do well, if you just play a mediocre support and keep team morale up you probably contribute more than your counterpart on the enemy team, and that's all that's necessary for elo gain.
The difference in skill that happens if you're also good at support makes this difference even larger, which is another reason it's easy to gain elo as support.
The skill cap is also distinct from game impact - a good support maybe sometimes wins you bot lane and contributes less than a good anyone else in team fights, which I'm not totally convinced is more than what keeping morale up does. Nonetheless, you can put about as much effort into support as into anything else, it's just that the game impact reward per skill is lower than in other roles.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laudandus
Yeah, I phrased that poorly. A well-played support can have a pretty large impact on a game. In particular, something like a really well-played Blitzcrank can make a very large game impact.
But in the average game, the opponent's support is someone who was forced onto support and won't do that well (below ~2100 elo, and even then this happens sometimes). So even if you also can't do well, if you just play a mediocre support and keep team morale up you probably contribute more than your counterpart on the enemy team, and that's all that's necessary for elo gain.
The difference in skill that happens if you're also good at support makes this difference even larger, which is another reason it's easy to gain elo as support.
The skill cap is also distinct from game impact - a good support maybe sometimes wins you bot lane and contributes less than a good anyone else in team fights, which I'm not totally convinced is more than what keeping morale up does. Nonetheless, you can put about as much effort into support as into anything else, it's just that the game impact reward per skill is lower than in other roles.
Support is getting more popular right now, to be honest. I've had to fight for support multiple times(The only reason I got it is because I told them I really only play support, which is true.), and the enemy support has been within the first 3 picks at least half the time. And this is at current 1500-1700(1600-2100 pre soft reset). There may be less people who want to play the role, but there is a pool of players who are dedicated at the role. but what you're saying is still probably true to an extent too, I'll admit. It's just that support is still very unpopular and things stated like that don't really help the situation. My hope is more people support more and there's ultimately a strong pool at lower elos, because having played adc at 1400 and having no good supports REALLY sucks.
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Last edited by The Fiery Tower : 11-15-2012 at 02:47 AM.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower
Support is getting more popular right now, to be honest. I've had to fight for support multiple times(The only reason I got it is because I told them I really only play support, which is true.), and the enemy support has been within the first 3 picks at least half the time. And this is at current 1500-1700(1600-2100 pre soft reset). There may be less people who want to play the role, but there is a pool of players who are dedicated at the role. but what you're saying is still probably true to an extent too, I'll admit. It's just that support is still very unpopular and things stated like that don't really help the situation. My hope is more people support more and there's ultimately a strong pool at lower elos, because having played adc at 1400 and having no good supports REALLY sucks.
Admittedly I haven't been to 1500-1700 in a long time, but it's interesting that more people are picking up on playing support. When I was there I played AD carry and it was terrible, hopefully it's better now.
Overall those look nice, but I noticed she looks lighter than before, especially with the Pharaoh skin. I ended up compared them side by side which confirmed by hunch. So...what's up with that?
sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
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Originally Posted by Doc Roc
SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Went for my first Pre-Season ranked game. Was carrying handily with Skarner. Guess what, someone on the opposing team did the mass DC abuse. So frustrating.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temotei
That was pretty cool. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
That's what I've always believed too. Still, I feel there's little to comment here beyond "Yeah, I suppose that's how it is" since the video doesn't really present arguments as much as just lays out what I'd consider facts.
Well, I guess that's true, but on the other hand, we could have a discussion on what elements of LoL actually provide an incentive for people to behave like jerks (and there must be some, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them), what elements of LoL provide an incentive to behave better, and what changes might be possible to improve the situation further. After all, some of the elements that contribute one way or the other may do so in a subtle, not immediately apparent way. For instance, it doesn't take long to realize that people not getting increased income in LoL if somebody on their team leaves (as it used to be the case in DotA) removes one major incentive towards negative behaviour that existed in DotA. On the other hand, off the top of my head, I wonder if, for example, towers in LoL being stronger and having a much better AI (that locks onto enemy champions that attack an allied champion in range) doesn't actually provide an incentive towards negative behaviour, as now a spitefully minded person might have it easier to reason that if somebody dies they must do so deliberately or be dying out of personal incompetence, rather than simply being outmatched, as tower-diving becomes much more difficult and playing defensively should be easier (not saying that I'd like to see a change in this regard - quite to the contrary - nor that I wish to discuss the effect of tower AI on player behaviour specifically, it was just meant as an example).
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Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumbration
Went for my first Pre-Season ranked game. Was carrying handily with Skarner. Guess what, someone on the opposing team did the mass DC abuse. So frustrating.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
What abuse is this?
Don't know the specifics of the mechanics, but here's what happened to me: in the middle of a teamfight (which we were winning) the screen froze like in a DC (you could still try clicking, but the champions just stood there) and it started trying to reconnect. At first I thought it was a problem with my internet, but after booting my connection it still did not connect. I exited the game and it threw me straight back into the front page of League client. No traces of the game - recently played summoners list, the games in my profile, Elo change - were to be found.
Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
I hate leavers.
Just got out of a TT game where it was Cait, Yi, and Rammus. Yi and Rammus were both AFK, but Yi was going AFK out by our outer top turret, within easy picking distance so as to be killed.
I still managed to drag the game out to thirty minutes or so, solo, with 2/4/0 KDA. I love Cait.
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Re: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that comes into being a support, even one like soraka. Sure you can jump slightly higher in elo then you should be able to spamming a champion with a low skill floor like soraka, doing okay, and then relying on the rest of your team to carry. However, you can do that with practically any role. While support is low on mechanics and pure skill, there is a lot more knowledge that the average support needs to have compared to other roles. You're the main warder, so you need to know what parts of the map have to be warded when, or else someone could die for it, they could get free objectives, or you can easily walk into a trap. In teamfights you need at least a little bit of knowledge of all roles, because if you don't you might not heal the jax who could have killed their adc instead of wasting the heal on your adc who would have survived, or silenced the jayce whose cooldowns are down instead of the ryze who is spamming spells, or exhausted their adc instead of the annie who hasn't ulted yet. 
