LOC (Lords of Creation) rule building

[mystic1110]

To those unfamiliar LOC (Lords of Creation) is a game played on these pbp forums. The game consists of players becoming gods, and then slowly making a whole world/setting around themselves.

The current rules have numerous problems and hopefully as a group we can correct them all.

PROPOSED RULES AS OF 5/29/2013:

Any ideas on these? Suggestions?

Spoiler

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Character Creation

A Godly Name
ONE Domain from the Available list (choose what that domain gives you; 1) +2 to Attack; 2) +2 to defense; 3) 2d6 extra HP; OR 4) knowing when someone else is using an action tied to that specific domain
An associative portfolio
And a character description: include Alignment and goals here.

You start off with 1d6 attack, 1d6 defense, 10 HP plus whatever you choose with your additional domain.

Other Rules

You gain 2+X AP per rollover, where X is how many domains you have. 5 is the maximum number of domains you may have.



Gods above Fledging may not access the material plane

You may only have 1 Shard per every 2 Domains you have.

you start with 15 AP

RCR

• 1) Players Start with 1d6 Attack, 1d6 defense and 10 HP
• 2) Players start with 1 domain and may gain 4 more. Each domain adds +2 to attack or defense or +2d6 HP.
• 3) When players make artifacts the artifact may give +1 to attack or defense or +1d6 HP.
• 4) ALL COMBAT IS ENCOURAGE TO BE PLOTTED OUT OOC FIRST
• 5) Players must pay 2 AP to Initiate Combat.
• 6) Each rolls attack and defense
• 7) Each player subtracts from their attack roll their opponents defense roll.
• 8) Each player subtracts from their HP the result of their opponents roll from part 7.
• 9) Combat lasts till one god is reduced to 0 HP
• 10) You may aid another god by paying 1 AP, doing so adds +1 to their attack or defense.
• 11) The losing god IS NOT DEAD unless the losing player agrees to it
• 12) The Winning player may take up 1 free AP to use for a land action to display the result of the divine battle
• 13) The winning player mayimpose the following choices on the loser
  
  • 1) Obey one comand from the winning god, as long as following that command does not involve spending more than 1 AP
  • 2) Imprisionment is displayed with a free divine word action that reads "Losing God may not spend AP on anything but coutnering this divine word"
  • 3) Maim the losing god permentantly. This is displayed by the losing god having a permenant -1 to attack OR a -1 to defense. And a free action crafting lost body part into a land or relic with a Cosmetic bonus.
  • 4) Mercy (Nothing)
• 14) after divine combat both players HP is returned to 10 if they were below 10 (plus any artifact bonuses - domain HP bonuese don't return)
• 15) If their is no winner after 3 rounds of dice rolling - the divine battle is declared to be a draw. More AP must be spent in order to continue battle otherwise you acknoledge your opponent as a worthy rival. Both players may at this point agree not to spend more ap on the RCR and instead collectively make a free 1 AP mold land action to display the effects of their battle to a draw.
• 16) If you win 2 divine combats in a row - you must wait till the next rollover to initiate more combat (with that specific god). You're god basically has great disdain for your week opponent. As a reward for winning twice you gain 1 AP. The loser may not spend AP to attack you after losing twice in a row

Pantheons

When you a born into the game - you automatically join a pantheon between your progenitor and yourself, unless your progenitor is already part of a pantheon and in that case you will join that pantheon. A god may only be a member of one pantheon at a time.

The pantheon is a sacred bond of fealty to the leader - gods in a pantheon aren't equals but instead sworn to the Leader.

Once per week the leader of a pantheon may ORDER a god in their pantheon to perform any action they are capable of performing OR may ORDER the pantheon as a whole into a cause - disobedience results in eviction from the pantheon. A god is never forced to use AP to fulfill an order.

But being a leader brings it's own responsibilities. The leader of any pantheon must obey these rule:

• Pantheon leader cannot openly act against the good of the pantheon. If he does, the strongest member may challenge him for the crown. Strongest is Highest Rank. If more than one player is tied for highest rank it is the one with highest AP. A challenge is not an RCR challenge but a democratic vote between the pantheon members. The challenger and challengee do not get to vote (meaning that an effective change of command can only work in a pantheon with 3 or more members). This also means unpopular pantheon leaders can be displaced. The ousted leader will become a regular member of the pantheon.
• Good of the pantheon is OBJECTIVE. Thus when you create a pantheon you must state a Pantheon GOAL. This rule does not apply to the automatically generated pantheons of family members. In that case GOOD is simply defending each other from non-family members.
• Pantheon leader must defend members of his pantheon against attacks of other gods (that he knows of), either by himself or by sending other members of the pantheon.

• Create Pantheon: 1 AP
• Join a pantheon: 1 AP
• Subordinate your pantheon to another pantheon: 1 AP.

Societies

When you make a race - in the beginning they live spread out - in a loose tribal system as the default. Use the create Society action to begin to form social connections and a collective history. Once you are ready to have your race progress into groups of more than a village of a hundred use the Form nation action to collect your race into a country or even an empire. Once you have a nation set up you may create guilds, religious groups or secret societies within with the form organization action.

Now all empires and civilizations have their golden ages, and their falls.

During Rollover you must reuse the Form Organization action, or your organization dissolves.

You may form nations of other people’s races – a god never has complete control/ ownership over every single individual being of the race he or she creates. You may even form organizations in other nations.

• 1 AP Form Society
• 2 AP Create Nation
• 1 AP Form Organization

Land Actions

A big part of being a god is changing the landscape around you!

• Alter Land 1 AP: Alter land allows a god to change already existing landscapes. It can be used to create mountain ranges, vast forests, lakes, swamps, or any other kind of "land type" you could think of. This includes razing and raising cities! Alter land can also be used to raise small chains of islands from the sea. These islands cannot be very big, but can be large enough to support a small kingdom. Think about the size of Hawaii. Alter land actions can also be used to change the layout of existing land, such changes can be the creation of the largest mountain in the world to the greatest forest.
  
• Create Land 2 AP: allows a god to create land where there is none. It can be used to raise a small continent from the sea, or create large, floating islands in a plane where there is no planet. Land created by Create Land can be up to the size of Russia
  
• Forge Astronomical Object 3AP: Use this action to create a celestial body such as a moon, planet, asteroid, or sun. If your astronomical object has special properties such as an empathic link to yourself, or can move contrary to the rules of gravity and physics – it is a Relic NOT an Astronomical Object
  
• Form Nexus 1AP: You may create a location of mystic and divine energy connected to a preexisting sanctum your god control/owns. A nexus may be a building, a door, a portion of a forest, a specific cave, but must be a specific location – it cannot be “the ocean.” Promoting mortals to higher rank of mortal can only occur in a Nexus.
  
• Weave Sanctum 2 AP: You may create a location of divinity attuned to your god. This location may be anywhere not on the material plane. Your seat of power may be a layer of a plane, or a simple foreboding castle. Gods may only enter another God’s sanctum if they have permission or initiated combat.
  
• Imagine Plane 5AP : Imagine Plane allows a god to create the fabric of their own reality. Planes are entire dimensions apart from the normal world, and can take any form a god can imagine. Hell, Heaven, or Limbo, are examples of planes. When weaving a plane, the creating god must decide on any special features it has, such as accelerated time, or empowered magic. A god may also decide how many layers there are initially. This can vary from one, to thousands, though most planes have less than three. Unlike a sanctum a god gets no special benefit for being within his or her own realm or plane. Your god does not "own" a plane he made - in fact other gods creating and living in a plane you made is encouraged!!

Relics and Artifacts:

Relics are powerful items that would destroy any mortal who is not a Legend, if they tried to use one. Only gods have the force of will to wield a Relic; while the reverse is true for Artifacts: An artifact is a powerful item or tool. They are imbued with power beyond that of most mortal's imagining. Artifacts can do many things, from resurrecting the dead, to causing small earthquakes. Artifacts are the tools of Mighty Heroes. Gods cannot wield artifacts; the sheer force of divine power would crush an artifact within seconds.

Relics when they are made can only do 1 of two things:

Grant a cosmetic bonus for roleplaying effect
OR grant +1 to attack; OR +1 to defense; or +1d6 to HP

You may only create 2 non-cosmetic relics per each domain you have (maximum is thus 10)

Artifacts may only grant cosmetic bonuses

• Relics are 2 AP
• Artifacts are 1 AP

Infusions

Infusions are the vestiges of your divine spark. You have 1 infusion available when the game starts and you gain 1 more infusion when you gain 3 domains, and a third and final infusion when you gain 5 domains.

With the expenditure of an infusion you may:

• 5 AP Unfold Divinity: Your powers as a god increase as you flower into a form closer to your true divinity. From now on you will gain 1 extra AP per rollover for each time you used Unfold Divinity.
  
• 5 AP Break the Chains: You struggle to break the bars that keep you from the mortal plane. With this action you may ignore the rule forbidding gods above fledging from accessing the mortal world.
  
• 5 AP Divine Decree: While Divine Omens can affect a person and a divine word can affect a small nation the divine decree affects Everything Everywhere! The divine decree simply states a new constant of the universe; be that all life is immortal; that souls are real; the gravity does not exist; or even that everything is now yellow. Divine decrees can be countered with a divine word action or a divine omen action: but that action still only affects the usual area. So while divine decree can make everything feel love, a god can make the people of a small nation incapable of love through word, or a single person in capable of love through an omen

Omens and Words.

Omens and Words are the will of the gods made manifest. They can range from a golden age for an empire, or to increase the mortal population. The population that finds themselves under the pleasure of a god will find their crops prosperous and their ways smoothed, as the subtle magic of the god is worked in their favor, The population that finds themselves under the curse of a god will find their crops barren and their land blighted, as the subtle magic of the god works against them.

The important thing to remember is to try to keep Omen and Words subtle – the ocassional overt action of a god is impressive but it gets boring quickly – make blesses and curses much much more than: “everyone is super strong now” – instead go for blesses like “I impart the wisdom of martial training and harsh conditions to my people – over the years they become stronger, more durable – their children fit for survival in my vision of the world”

The difference between Omens and Words is the area of their effects:

• Divine Omen 1 AP: From a single person to an average-sized town's worth of people. A section of an army. An exceedingly sparsely populated area.
  
• Divine Word 3 AP: Anywhere from a large city's worth of people. A small army in its entirety. A rural, but settled are to a large nation or kingdom, and all within it, including settlements of any size. Anyone matching a SPECIFIC descriptor (I.e., Arcane Spellcasters, Commoners, those who worship a certain god)
  
• Anything broader than a word would require a Divine Decree and the use of an Infusion.

Blesses and Curses can be countered by other gods, however. Each time it is countered, it becomes harder and harder for the gods to exert their will over each other. An omen only takes 1 AP to create, and 2 AP to counter, however, once countered, it takes 3 AP to reinstate the curse, and 4 AP to recounter it, and so on.

Do not treat “curse wars” like this:

• 1 AP: Make super healing plants.
• 2 AP: Kill all super healing plants.
• 3 AP: Recreate super healing plants.
• 4 AP: Kill all super healing plants.
• 5 AP: Recreate super healing plants.

Treat them Like this:

• 1 AP: Make super healing plants.
• 2 AP: Super healing plants are struck with a disease like real world plants and large cluster of them die because of lack of genetic diversity, now they only exists but far spread out, rarer and never in large clumps.
• 3 AP: Super healing plants emit an aura that make them easy to find.
• 4 AP: Plant poisonous plants around the world that emit the same aura, look the same and kill instantly, so a person looking for these plants will have to journey towards them but will never know if they will die or survive at the end of the journey.
• 5 AP: Create spirit guides that aren't an actual species but a manifestation of that super healing plant's benevolence, and like the will o' wisps in "Brave" they lead people away from the poisonous plants.

Heroes and Legends

What are myths without heroes? You may create a mortal to work in your gods stead or even against yourself on the material plane.

• 1 AP Promote Leader: Leaders are more like bureaucrats to a hero’s warrior. They are important and powerful – but they aren’t what epics are written about. They can be spy masters, mob bosses, kings, guild leaders etc. They don’t grant any bonus, but you don’t need a nexus to promote them and you can have as many as you like.
• 3 AP Raise Hero: You may only use this action inside a Nexus you control. You may only have 1 Hero per organization. A Hero grants +1 AP at rollover (This AP can be used to pay for the organization’s upkeep – when the organization falls, your hero loses this 1 AP bonus). The trick is to expend this extra AP in a way to enhance the Hero’s stature – don’t just use the Hero to farm for more AP – try to tell a story with the hero. Make us care.
• 3 AP Create Legend: You may create a legend out of a hero. You may only use this action inside a Nexus you control. The only other restriction is that a hero must have existed for at least 2 rollovers to become eligible to becoming raised to a legend – you can also create a legend out of a leader but only provided that the leader has existed for at least 4 rollovers! A legend is basically a demi god. In fact Legends count as fledging gods that may not use a gain domain action. (they have 1d6 attack, 1d6 defense and 10 HP!) They gain 2 AP each rollover. You may only have 1 Legend at any one time. Legends dont have domains so they make or recieve non-cosmetic artifacts!

Life

Life is defined here as anything animate that can act of its own, or a god's will. Humans, Golems, and Undead, all fall under this category.

• Mundane Life 1 AP: You create non-Sentient Animals (bugs, germs, gerbils) (you may use this action for free any amount of times when you use a create land action or an alter land action.)
• Monstrous life 1 AP: non-sentient monsters Giant Spiders, Dire Animals, Purple Worms, or hell, Dinosaurs. You can't use an alter land action/create land action and make monstrous life. So while you can use alter land to make a land full of honey and bees without a mundane life action, you can't make Jurassic park with dinosaurs with just an alter or create land action.
• Sentient Life 2AP: Of any type of life that is roughly equal to a human sapience. Sentient Life does not have a bonus for combat, but they have the ability to use any mundane concepts unlike monstrous life
• Create magical life 3 AP: If the sentient life you create has any innate OR APTITUDE for magical abilities simply by existing then use this action instead. (I.E. elves)
• Fabled life 5AP: such as Dragons, Greater Demons, Giants, Vampires, Fey, Powerful Angels, Titans, or other blatantly supernatural and extremely powerful beings.

Create Concept

• -Mundane 1AP: Non-military Concepts that would have been easily found in ancient rome or greece. Blacksmithing, Literature, Sculpture, and Architecture are examples of Mundane Concepts.
• - Advanced 2AP : Advanced concepts are technological marvels that revolutionize the way a society works. Things such as engineering, Gunpowder, Steam Power, and Plumbing, are Advanced Concepts. Military concepts such as armies, sword fighting, martial arts, dueling, archery, discipline would be advanced concepts.
• - Magical 3 AP: Magical Concepts are ways of using power that allow the wielder to accomplish great things. Pyromancy, Necromancy, Abjuration, Healing these are all Magical concepts. Remember a Magical concept CANNOT make magic, it can only make a school of magic - use Legendary concept action to make a system of magic. You CANNOT make a school of magic without a system of magic already existing.[
• -Legendary 5 AP: Like Magical Concepts, Legendary Concepts are far from mundane. However, unlike Magical Concepts, Legendary Concepts are more than ways to use power. They are power itself. Arcane Magic, or Divine Magic, Immortal Souls, Afterlife are examples of Legendary Concepts. Remember a Magical concept CANNOT make magic, it can only make a school of magic - use Legendary concept action to make a system of magic. You CANNOT make a school of magic without a system of magic already existing. ALL MODERN/SCIFI CONCEPTS ARE LEGENDARY.

Gain Domain

• 4 AP Gain Domain: The Gain Domain action allows a god to gain an additional Domain and an accompanying Portfolio. The god must first have spent 16 AP worth of AP since the last time they used this action.

[Preaplanes]

Eh, I'm iffy on the "one infusion ever" thing. Yes, we have too many, but if people want to interact with the world, they're just going to immediately burn it on a Break the Chains action. You said it yourself; it's easy to make an island filled with all sorts of goodies, but you can't expect others to visit you.


I'd make it so that Break the Chains actions can't be done until a higher level or something if you want the gods to emphasize their planes.



If you do limit infusions, I'd grandfather in that pre-existing Gods can have 1 last infusion (if they haven't used them all) so that any plans they had aren't totally screwed.

Perhaps it would be simplest to limit infusions gained to "one at intermediate, one at greater, and one at elder." That way you don't have low-ranking gods spamming world-changing abilities, but you still get a handful of powerful abilities for powerful gods.

[mystic1110]

Preaplanes nothing in this thread will be applied to the current game - this rule building will be used to improve the next LoC

[Preaplanes]

Preaplanes nothing in this thread will be applied to the current game - this rule building will be used to improve the next LoC

Ah, then everything I said, EXCEPT grandfathering.

I also wrote a suggestion earlier.

Maybe instead of this optimization-type system, we could do a choice based one.

At Fledgling, Intermediate, and Elder, choose one of three different bonuses. Each bonus is fairly specific, but allowed to be customized to your deity's nature, and generally do the same thing.

Fledgling would affect how your deity interacts with the world, giving bonuses to creating/changing/interacting with races or establishing lands or developing a few technologies.

Intermediate would be the tier where you're offered the ability to remove some of your god's limiters. Maybe the ability to split into three parts and RP from each spot, or if Gods' true images burn their followers' eyes out like an Angel from Supernatural, they no longer do so, or if their power would make their presence obvious and stealth against other gods impossible, making it so that they can't be detected.

Elder would be the big world-changers. Decrees, Monuments, and some other third thing.


Just a thought.

For the third thing in Tier 3, Shrines, perhaps? Not sure how they'd work, but it would be more based around mortals being blessed for worshiping your deity. Perhaps as a buff that fits your god's theme, or a ward that protects your subjects from opposing forces and ideals.

A Time god's subjects may become immortal, or a City god may make it so that nature can never reclaim the land nearby.



I've also noticed the Cosmic Decree action can be a little... much. With one decree, you can mess with another god's entire theme. A Nature god saying that Nature always wins in the end would really rustle a City god's jimmies, or an Eternity god would be hosed by a decree that all things come to an end (right, Arc? )

The Cosmic Decree should be more limited in scope to what and whom it can affect. Yes, it adds a universal law, but those laws are just too powerful and have too much potential to screw other players.

[Betrayer]

Also, as a clarity thing, it might be a good idea to clear up create life and create concepts - specifically that they all count as different actions for the purposes of reducing AP.

Now just throwing stuff at the wall, to see if it sticks:

- All AP reducing actions should be discussed OOC, and should be encouraged to have thematic limitations. For example, you might make a forge that reduces Artifacts and Relics by -2 each, but it will only work on military relics and artifacts, as its a forge, not an artisan's workshop (which might do the opposite). Or a bag of wonders, that reduces the cost of advanced concepts by 1, but only if they are a physical object that can be produced from the bag (or very closely linked to one), so: Archery - fine, produce a bow; explosives - fine, pull out a bomb; discipline - nope; warships - nope (won't come out of a bag). Then those limitations should have to be approved OOC, and could thereby balance more powerful reductions (like advanced concepts).

- Reduce Infusions to 1 or 2, but then add extra uses for them, improve the less powerful uses and/or make more central the power of monuments (i.e. special abilities rather than just generic RCR bonuses/cost reduction) - they should be the sort of places that the main plot of the world hinges around, not just the tools of the gods. The combination of this should then leave players split between choosing what to do with them, giving a different feel to different gods.

- Add an extra tier to the society/order chain, and make them all more expensive. For example:
Form Society (2AP) Creates a culture who self identify as similar, compared with outsiders, but are not united or organised.
Establish Nation (3/4 AP) Creates a country who are organised, with a government, army, legal system etc.
Found Order (5AP) Creates an elite group, dedicated to some goal or common cause.

[Emperor Demonking]

I don't see the value of AP-reducing actions. They seem to me to encourage the gaming of the system. Also, if the point of AP is to control the growth of the world's variety then the introduction of relics and monuments play havoc with that control. I do like Betrayer's idea though, so maybe an insistence of strong thematic limitations; so if you spend 5 AP on a relic you're only likely to be able to find 5 places to immediately use it, for example.

I also like Betrayer's four tier society AP but if you're increasing the costs of orders then I'd also add:
Create Group (1 AP): Create a thematic group that are important to a given society or nation. This action can performed for free three times with a Form Society action and an unlimited amount of times with an Establish Nation action.

[Preaplanes]

If we're making it so that a character gets barred from the Prime Material for a significant time upon reaching Intermediate, I'd suggest adding a few default Planes to start off so that people have a vested interest in a plane that isn't theirs. That way it encourages interaction.

We could simply use some major D&D planes (Elysium, Mechanus, Limbo, Astral, Outlands, and Hades would be swell IMO, maybe add Celestia, Baator, Arborea, and the Abyss if we feel the extreme alignments need a place to hang).

Doing this we could have characters with the motivation to be the Lord of Hell, or the benevolent guardian of Heaven, or the Great Balancer, or something along those lines.

These would be the big planes, the ones people would fight over, immune to Alter Land actions and the like, though Monuments would be able to be built on them so long as they fit within the plane's alignment (I doubt a hellforge would do well in Elysium).

[mystic1110]

BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.

I always wanted to encourage more Plane building.

AP reductions didn't always exist in this game - but they were added to make artifacts/relics DO STUFF that wasn't combat.

That said I really like the increasing society stuff. that way a god makes a race - makes a primitive society first and then slowly builds upon that.

Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?

[Man on Fire]

I played great Lords of Creation game on other forum, based on original rules. And I'll talk fro mthat, as I have one suggestion, pardon me if that was cleared up with the errata or later rules additions:

Ban creating artifacts or any other forms of creation that would globally change the rules of gameplay for other players or at least make suggestion in rules to don't do that. What I meant is that in our game we had one guy create artifact that make it harder for everybody to advance to higher ranks. It caused @#$%storm that ended with gamemaster declaring that from that point every single artifact had to be pended earlier and wait seven days without any obijection from other players.

[mystic1110]

The general Idea is that ALL artifact must be vetted first - but in practice no one follows that. Your suggestion that instead of the GM making that decision and that the artifact must be posted OoC first and not objected to in X amount of days is a good one.

[Preaplanes]

BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.

I always wanted to encourage more Plane building.

AP reductions didn't always exist in this game - but they were added to make artifacts/relics DO STUFF that wasn't combat.

That said I really like the increasing society stuff. that way a god makes a race - makes a primitive society first and then slowly builds upon that.

Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?

The problem I've noticed, though, is that we've got all sorts of nice planes... but nobody to give a damn about any they didn't make themselves. Nobody has any motivation to interact with another god's plane.

[mystic1110]

True. How bout a clarification in the rules that you can do whatever you want in another god's plane - just not in a gods sanctum. Then also limit sanctums to non-material planes - forcing people to use the nexus action on the material plane. Then change the rule for the nexus action by giving gods some sort of privilege on their nexus but make it a requirement to have a sanctum first.

------

Also some other things on my mind. People have a tendency to make intelligent life - before PLANTS, SUN, WARMTH, ATMOSPHERE, or even LAND.

Any way to make a logical limitation on that?

------

Additionally as has been brought up - the RCR system needs alot of work. even though it should be the last resort- it should make a lot more sense power wise. Any advice there?

[rweird]

Maybe for reductions, not a straight out ban but costs an additional # of AP reduced by other things so far AP to make (for example, if someone makes a relic giving -1 to create magical concept and a monument that gives -2, the monument would cost 8 AP, and if someone else wants to make a relic, then it'd cost 7 AP for -1 to Create Magical Concept).

I dislike the idea of only one infusion ever, maybe 1/2 divine rank rounded up so fledgling and lesser have 1, intermediate and greater have 2, while Elder has 3 (or round down so you have to be lesser to make an infusion).

maybe making it so only half (rounded down, minimum of 1) of your infusions can be for Break the Chains/Relics/Monuments while the other half have to be for Divine Infusion.

I'd support bumping Break the Chains and Cosmic Decree up to 7 AP, maybe more for Cosmic Decree.

A question for Domains and Portfolios, can you have the same portfolio from a different domain, for example, on deity having the Domain War (Conquest) and another Domination (Conquest)? Would that be allowed under the rules? If not, should it be allowed? I think it should to a point, for example, someone with the domain Baator (Creatures), and another with Plant (Creatures) should be allowed because plant creatures are completely different from Devils.

[ShadowFireLance]

The Problem with 1 AP action per post is going to lead to a lot of Large posts broken up into many smaller ones.
So Essentially doing nothing, and if something like that ends up happening, it would be a LoC that I would not want to play.

Thoughts on other things:

Relics/Monuments:
Alright, Herin is where the point lies; I liked the Abilities of LoC rule set 2, Which gave a reason WHY they where able to make stuff like that, at a lesser cost.
Relics/Monuments to me, are a Waste of AP, Unless used for combat, they may be a part of LoC, but...They seem like something you would expect MORTALs to create for a god, not a god create for themselves.

Just some thoughts.

[rweird]

It isn't 1 AP action/post, it was 1 FREE action (from cost reductions)/post for Flux because he was going overboard with it.

[mystic1110]

I also really liked the abilities of the rule set 2: and I worked pretty hard on coming up with them. I don't know why people decided to not have them anymore: although I would love to bring them back - maybe replace monuments with them. I would add that no two gods may have the same ability?

[Emperor Demonking]

Another limitation that might be added would be ONE AP action per post?

Strongly encouraging I'd be fine with, but I wouldn't want to ban more than one action per post because sometimes a god may want to do more that one thing at the exact same time e.g. if I wanted Orcs and Elves to both be the first intelligent creatures in the world then changing the rule would make that impossible since I would have to do one after the other.

Also some other things on my mind. People have a tendency to make intelligent life - before PLANTS, SUN, WARMTH, ATMOSPHERE, or even LAND.

Any way to make a logical limitation on that?

I think the mod just has to remind people not to do it when posting the IC thread.

[Grinner]

BIG NO for the pre-made planes - point of LOC is to encourage creativity! It actually always upset me whenever people make boring stereotypical planes like Hell, Limbo, Astral Plane and Heaven. I liked the original planes like a M.C. Escher maze of Gold - the plane of greed. Or a shadow plane made entirely of caverns within caverns. And a plane that is an endless emerald city as far as the eye could see. Additionally LOC is not D&D - I want some non D&D planes created. Hell I would even prefer people to stop using D&D spells or thoughts - instead of saying "Fireball" I would vastly prefer a sentence or two of the god drawing power into himself and releasing heat in the shape of a sphere - basically I would like more imagery. I think tying LOC into D&D takes a lot of that away.

For starters, you could start encouraging that by stripping the game of D&D influences. The first thing a player looks at when they start playing an RPG is the character sheet. Now, when they're asked to assign their character a D&D-style alignment and Domains, it's far too easy to fall into the mindset of D&D.

[ShadowFireLance]

I also really liked the abilities of the rule set 2: and I worked pretty hard on coming up with them. I don't know why people decided to not have them anymore: although I would love to bring them back - maybe replace monuments with them. I would add that no two gods may have the same ability?

..That would lead to Fights, big time.
Because, What if you have two gods, one Elemental, One Dragon (Inferndyim and Rweird's god) And they both want Elemental (Fire) Ability?

I can understand if only thematic appropriate stuff was allowed, but where do you draw the line at?

[mystic1110]

True enough.

The original system - before even the the original rule set! was that you have to spend 2 AP per sphere - and a sphere was just an area of influence. And then you can spend 3 AP per domain for each 2 spheres you have. making it cost 7 AP per domain. At the same time that means you can exclusively spend AP to power up and nothing else.

[Preaplanes]

For starters, you could start encouraging that by stripping the game of D&D influences. The first thing a player looks at when they start playing an RPG is the character sheet. Now, when they're asked to assign their character a D&D-style alignment and Domains, it's far too easy to fall into the mindset of D&D.

You're posting on a heavily D&D themed board, with the world's most popular D&D based comic at the center, with D&D enthusiasts everywhere.

I really doubt you can remove that influence so easily.

Maybe you could insist that Gods never call their attacks OOTS-style, at least not by D&D names, but mortals do.

[Grinner]

You're posting on a heavily D&D themed board, with the world's most popular D&D based comic at the center, with D&D enthusiasts everywhere.

I really doubt you can remove that influence so easily.

I can try.

[mystic1110]

Maybe you could insist that Gods never call their attacks OOTS-style, at least not by D&D names, but mortals do.

Outside you - I don't think a player ever had a god or a mortal call out their attacks. It's usually been described - either beautifully or terribly.

Anyway - to make this rule fixing more ordered and structured.

Start your post with a suggestion - and number it. (Right now were at 6 - look at the OP)

Then name a previous number and your thoughts on it?

That way we have concrete suggestions instead of random ideas?

(Also FYI, I'm not in charge of this - this is a group effort where all opinions are equal - so if you guys think one my suggestions is bad, it probably won't win, and if I think something is bad but no one else does then in it goes)

[Emperor Demonking]

1, 4: Yes
3, 5: See 7

7. My preference for modifying relics (and I do think they should be kept) would be that they should be greatly limited in scope; rather than making it cheaper to create concepts it should be cheaper to produce concepts related to e.g. fashion. I don't think exclusivity or free-prevention are good; they're patches rather than something we want.

[NichG]

Disclaimer: I've never played LOC, so this is pure game design theory rather than experience talking.

If you want to get people to be interested in eachothers' planes, make it so some benefit is derived from interacting with them. Have a plane provide some benefit to its creator AND anyone who visits there. Require some interacts with the mortal world to require magical sites that must be created within a plane - you don't just look down on the world, you use a scrying pool; its expensive to make, so you either make your own or use a friend's. Perhaps you can always look down at the present, but to see an individual's future you need the pool (and by see, I mean 'write into fate' and create a destiny for).

Have it be so you can make an alliance between deities such that they all draw certain persistent benefits from eachothers' planes, so if one comes under attack everyone in the alliance will move to defend. Have it be so that things in the various planes can be imported to the mortal world to act in a god's stead - if there are useful creatures, a god may decide to go hunting on the plane created by another deity in order to steal, tame, and employ those creatures. Since its a whole plane, its probably not something that can be actively policed in a way that would block a determined god all the time, and it should be encouraged to be 'full of holes' like that unless the owner actively spends points to seal it that week.

[ShadowFireLance]

Disclaimer: I've never played LOC, so this is pure game design theory rather than experience talking.

8.
If you want to get people to be interested in eachothers' planes, make it so some benefit is derived from interacting with them. Have a plane provide some benefit to its creator AND anyone who visits there. Require some interacts with the mortal world to require magical sites that must be created within a plane - you don't just look down on the world, you use a scrying pool; its expensive to make, so you either make your own or use a friend's. Perhaps you can always look down at the present, but to see an individual's future you need the pool (and by see, I mean 'write into fate' and create a destiny for).

Have it be so you can make an alliance between deities such that they all draw certain persistent benefits from eachothers' planes, so if one comes under attack everyone in the alliance will move to defend. Have it be so that things in the various planes can be imported to the mortal world to act in a god's stead - if there are useful creatures, a god may decide to go hunting on the plane created by another deity in order to steal, tame, and employ those creatures. Since its a whole plane, its probably not something that can be actively policed in a way that would block a determined god all the time, and it should be encouraged to be 'full of holes' like that unless the owner actively spends points to seal it that week.

9. Begin doing 8 By Perhaps making it that you can only gain Ap reductions on your Own plane?

Also, this is a double edged sword, where every deity has their own special planes, and no one does anything on anyone else's.

[rweird]

9. Begin doing 8 By Perhaps making it that you can only gain Ap reductions on your Own plane?

Also, this is a double edged sword, where every deity has their own special planes, and no one does anything on anyone else's.

That wouldn't help fully, it'd encourage people to make planes, though invading someone else's gives no advantage.

[mystic1110]

In response to 8: Maybe only allow AP reduction from relics/monuments on other planes. ?

[ShadowFireLance]

That wouldn't help fully, it'd encourage people to make planes, though invading someone else's gives no advantage.

But taking over a different plane should do something like give you their bonuses?

[mystic1110]

I don't think encouraging interplanar warfare is a good thing - instead I think the ideal would be that players create interesting planes - a gods make homes on those planes since - well they are so much better than the material world.

Only very specific nature/mortal gods should care about the material world at all - outside some gods acting INDIRECTLY to protect a favored race/hero. Hell even for tech and magic gods - would make more sense to live on other planes - and only INDIRECTLY spread their tech/magic to the material plane.

Basically - my ideal - is a lot more INDIRECT activities.

Instead of a god controlling a city the god makes heroes and a church to run the city.

Instead of the god punishing a heretic the god makes a monster (dragon/titan) to attack the heretic.

Etc. . .