Combat Sniper [Prestige Class]

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by icke

I already read it before my last post, see the third line from below. I don't know why they did rephrase it for the Shadow Dancer(it's more a mixture of Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight there, really), but the original Hide in Plain Sight, the version I've been talking about the whole time, doesn't say a word about hiding without cover or concealment. But let's stop this part of the debate, since You've reworded the ability for the Sniper and it now actually says what it does and fits to what you described it should do.

Back to the rest of the class: As [b]jlousivy[b] already pointed out, the deadly aim has more flavor to it if it's made a standard action, not the first shot of a volley. There was something on this topic somewhere in the homebrew section, I'll see if I can find it...

yep sorry about the argument.

Anyway I understand the flavor that would come from dead aim = 1 shot however I cant see a situation where taking 1 single shot that is a crit threat would be better then taking a volley (of even 2 because at that level you are getting 2 shots per sniper attack) of shots. With a bow you are criting on 19-20 (assuming you took improved crit) which isn’t great but still possible and volume over quality in a sneak attack action is more often preferred.

I personaly don't want to lower the number of shots in a snipers attacks ether becuase i believe it makes flavorful sense to. Becuase any sniper will start out with only being able to make 1 or so shots acuratly before they need to reconsentrate but the more experienced (represented by levels) you get the easier it is for you to place one arrow after another on the same spot or at least vital spots.

So what I am saying I dont know how to set up the dead aim ability (however i realy dont want to get rid of it becuase besides flavor wise i believe it is relativly balanced)

[icke]

Originally Posted by crazedloon

Anyway I understand the flavor that would come from dead aim = 1 shot however I cant see a situation where taking 1 single shot that is a crit threat would be better then taking a volley (of even 2 because at that level you are getting 2 shots per sniper attack) of shots. With a bow you are criting on 19-20 (assuming you took improved crit) which isn’t great but still possible and volume over quality in a sneak attack action is more often preferred.

I personaly don't want to lower the number of shots in a snipers attacks ether becuase i believe it makes flavorful sense to. Becuase any sniper will start out with only being able to make 1 or so shots acuratly before they need to reconsentrate but the more experienced (represented by levels) you get the easier it is for you to place one arrow after another on the same spot or at least vital spots.

So what I am saying I dont know how to set up the dead aim ability (however i realy dont want to get rid of it becuase besides flavor wise i believe it is relativly balanced)

in the case of an enemy with damage reduction, one critical shot is indeed preferable to many hits that can't pierce the target. I see how You want to evolve the ability with increasing experience, but if You allow volleys of sneak attack arrows the amount of damage a sniper deals is enormous.
How about making Deadly Aim the ability to add 1d6 damage per three(or four) class levels to any ranged attack a Sniper does with the projectile weapon he has a Weapon Focus feat for? The damage is not sneak attack damage, it can be used in regular combat as well, it applies to every arrow fired, but it is less than a regular rogues' sneak attack(so the rogues still have an advantage over this class). Doeas it sound reasonable?

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by icke

in the case of an enemy with damage reduction, one critical shot is indeed preferable to many hits that can't pierce the target. I see how You want to evolve the ability with increasing experience, but if You allow volleys of sneak attack arrows the amount of damage a sniper deals is enormous.
How about making Deadly Aim the ability to add 1d6 damage per three(or four) class levels to any ranged attack a Sniper does with the projectile weapon he has a Weapon Focus feat for? The damage is not sneak attack damage, it can be used in regular combat as well, it applies to every arrow fired, but it is less than a regular rogues' sneak attack(so the rogues still have an advantage over this class). Doeas it sound reasonable?

I see that as being the only time ever and really many shots is probably still preferable because I doubt the DR is that much to offset the sneak damage you could be getting + you still have the ability to crit on normal shots.

I don’t like that version of deadly aim mainly because it is only emulating an already existing class i.e. Order of the bow Initiate and that class does 1d8s for its extra damage.

I don’t think with the current limitation on dead aim and the need to max out this class before you can do a full attack with your weapon that the class is too broken. A caster can easily stop this and a fighter with the proper items can do the same. I don’t see how being able to drop a bunch of damage in one go is much different from a wizard/sorc dropping a bunch of damage, dominating, or incapacitating you in power level.

I guesse my only problem is you are the only one who seams to think that the ability of this class is to strong. If there are any others who also think it is to strong please chime in why.

[icke]

Yes, chime in everyone! The only thing I have left to say, if You're convinced it works, playtest it! That's the only way we can find out if anyone of us is right.

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by icke

Yes, chime in everyone! The only thing I have left to say, if You're convinced it works, playtest it! That's the only way we can find out if anyone of us is right.

Dont take any offense to anything I say it just doesn's seam all that broken to me (and apparently a bunch of people on page one). And I will actualy see if I can play test this soon

[LCR]

Well, good idea, really, but wouldn't it be a bit boring for you to actually play this class? I mean, all he basically does is waiting. And even if you like that, I bet the rest of your party doesn't.

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by LCR

Well, good idea, really, but wouldn't it be a bit boring for you to actually play this class? I mean, all he basically does is waiting. And even if you like that, I bet the rest of your party doesn't.

In my opinion that also makes this class a little more balanced actualy . But this class does not have to wait they can set up a quick ambush or quickly hide when a fight breaks out and use her skills at any range.

[icke]

The Sniper has just the same 'problems' as the rogue, ranger, some monks and every assassin. The distribution of sneaky scenes and other stuff is up to the GM, so hopefully every class will have its moments, this one as well.

[blackout]

Boom, headshot. Nice idea, crazedloon. Gotta show this to my party's ranger.

[Celtic8824]

Originally Posted by akira72703

Why not make an ability that functions off of the coup de grace principal for these guys since as snipers they will be spending alot of time wating and watching anyway. As a balance to it, all a modified fort save based off of the death from massive damage principle.

Ahhh suggestions wiith no elaboration mmmmm.

-E

And to stick with the sniper theme for the whole thing, you can only use that ability as your opening/first attack for the battle. (The sniper's first shot when nobody knows he is there is most likely going to be a kill. Once they know he exists, the enemy becomes much more cautious and hard to hit.)